From bill at nineplanets.org Tue Jan 1 03:45:41 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <3C31097B.F6B@svpal.org> Message-ID: <157003C0-FEAD-11D5-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Monday, December 31, 2001, at 04:57 PM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Bill Arnett wrote: >> >> On Monday, December 31, 2001, at 04:10 PM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: >> >>> ... The list of awardees is on our web site. >> >> That's >> http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html >> It lists Jay Freeman twice. Is that right? > > ??? He should be there just once, but my notes also say twice. Did we > award the award in 2001? I think Jane was the most recent. The award > isn't supposed to be given but once to any person. Damn. I'm supposed > to know all this stuff, but my brain has been slowly turning into mush. We need to figure this out. I didn't see anything obvious in the Ephemeris on the web. I notice that I modified the award web page on 2001 Aug 8 so perhaps whatever we did happened at the Aug 4 general meeting or the preceding board meeting? Perhaps the treasurer has some record of the expense of creating the plaque? Or just maybe someone has some pictures taken at the meeting? -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From deljohnson_ls at yahoo.com Tue Jan 1 11:24:42 2002 From: deljohnson_ls at yahoo.com (Del Johnson) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donation of telescope & binocular In-Reply-To: <3C2FB52B.3366@svpal.org> Message-ID: <20020101192442.56845.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, Sorry to butt in but somewhere in my mind is the recall that 501(c)3 orgns don't assign a value for the benefit of the donor. A receipt for the article is given with the value left blank for the donor to establish. Happy New Year, Del --- Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Hi, All, > > Jack Zeiders has donated his 17 inch hand-made > Dobsonian, and a 5 inch > binocular. The latter are Japanese Battleship > glasses, made in the > mid-1940s. > > Jack will continue to store them until we are > ready to bring them into > the loaner program and arrange for other storage. > > Both are in good condition. I'm guesstimating > $2000 for the > binocular, and $4000 for the scope. It is made of > high-quality material > with superb workmanship -- this is not a mere > utilitarian plywood > Dobbox. There is a small crack in the veneer of the > top-end assembly, > but it has no effect on the scope's performance. > > Please advise if these are reasonable valuations. > Has anyone seen > similar items sold lately? The 18 inch Obsession > lists at $4495. > > Clear Skies! > -- > Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical > Association > JVN's home > page > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From jvn at svpal.org Tue Jan 1 14:00:44 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donation of telescope & binocular References: <20020101192442.56845.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C32318C.A9E@svpal.org> Del Johnson wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Sorry to butt in but somewhere in my mind is the > recall that 501(c)3 orgns don't assign a value for the > benefit of the donor. A receipt for the article is > given with the value left blank for the donor to > establish. Yes, but. The IRS states that it is the donor's responsibility to establish value. But I usually put some words in the letter suggesting a value; as an astronomical association, we are generally qualified to make such an appraisal. Here is part of a recent letter: > Thank you very much for your generous donation of the > Xxx-brand Dobsonian telescope on (date). > The scope is complete and in excellent condition. > > According to the IRS, determination of the value of a donation > is your responsibility, but we would estimate the value at $2400. > Consult IRS publication 561 "Determining the Value of Donated > Property" for additional guidance. > > To meet IRS rules for this letter: SJAA has not provided to > you any "quid pro quo consideration" in exchange for your donation. So I'm advising Mr.Xxxx that it's his responsibility, but also helping him to do that task. I believe it keeps us legal and still helpful. That $2400 is perhaps 90% of the going price, as it was a commercial scope in current production. In the present case, the first paragraph will say something about the unique nature, and the superb design and construction, as a means to document that this is not an ordinary cobbled-up-at-home telescope. Dave has described it as "best of show". That may not be a legal description, but it is not an overstatement. I could validly say "professionally designed", as industrial design is Jack's profession. All of this to support a price close to the Obsession 18, which is 4500$. I think $4000 is very defensible for this scope. Now, has anyone seen a recent price on Japanese battleship binoculars circa 1940?? -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From jvn at svpal.org Tue Jan 1 14:28:23 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <157003C0-FEAD-11D5-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C323807.6BC6@svpal.org> Bill Arnett wrote: > I notice that I modified the award web page on > 2001 Aug 8 so perhaps whatever we did happened at the Aug 4 general > meeting or the preceding board meeting? Aug.4 minutes don't say anything Gregorywise. July 7 says "A.B.Gregory award -- catches up on history -- check web site". I plead guilty to writing inadequate notes. Continuing back through 2001 minutes, I find no mention of the Gregory award. My supposedly official list has Jay in 1998 and 2001. A search of the newsletters finds a picture of him with the award in the March issue; the presentation was at the Jan.30, 1999 meeting where Jay was also the speaker. So there. The remaining question is, what exactly was said at the August 2001 board meeting, that caused both myself and BillA to add Jay for a second time? I simply don't recall. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 2 01:26:53 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Funds (was: Observer's Handbooks & Calendars) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231073350.00abf4d0@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <3C32D25D.64E9@aenet.net> Mark Taylor wrote: > In fact, it reminds me of something I was trying to get momentum for > shortly after I joined the board (or was it after taking over the > treasury?) I called it a "duties list", and it was to contain every > officer position AND special project chair, with details about the jobs and > how to do them. Unfortunately I didn't have the necessary energy and time > to keep after it, and it died away. > > I'd still like to see us pull something like that together, too, but I know > it's not easy. Well, it shouldn't be *that* big of a job, it's just a question of doing it. And once something like that is done, it wouldn't have to be done again, just a little maintenance now and then. > >Here's what I've got: > > It's still far from perfect, but at least it's much more info (and more > organized) than what I got. It took me most of a year to get a handle on > all the ins and outs of the job and start organizing things in a way that > made sense to me. Once something gets organized, it's a lot easier to maintain. I was able to do OK right off the bat with the bank accounts, but I didn't know about all these funds. > >3) Checkbook, statements from the bank for a checking account, > >...two notepaper pages. One is labeled "Equipment > >fund" with a dozen entries... The other page is labeled > >"Andrah/Edu fund" ... No other info. > > Unfortunately that's as close as I ever got to making a proper ledger / > spreadsheet out of the three funds. Those tally sheets were enough to > allow me to report running fund balances and look up old transactions as > needed, but not much more. > > Regrettably, the relationship of the funds to the physical account was > not documented as it needed to be; that's the trouble with being too close > to the details of what you are documenting -- one tends to overlook what > they alone would consider to be "self-evident points". Indeed. I very nearly mistook it for some old thing that didn't matter any more. As I noted, there was no other information about what it was. > >Whoever knows about the Gregory fund, please send me a summary > >of it. Please include what it is, how it started, and how it's > >supposed to be administered. (To be stapled to front of the > >savings/gregory folder.) > > This has been asked for a couple times (different folks at different > times), and summarized vocally by those who know (including at one or two > board and general meetings over the last few years). The fact that something gets asked about over and over is a indicative of a problem...things aren't getting done that need to be done. Re minutes: > We've also tried (and tried) to make a routine of publishing some form of > minutes in the Ephemeris. We have gone through multiple stints of > independently taking and publishing *unofficial* minutes there, but nobody > really wants the job full-time. Translating the official minutes into a > regular column (or just nicely typed text in a folder) has never been done, > to my knowledge. There are a couple of different ways of going on that. If the secretary has a laptop, he/she can type in the minutes on the fly. I'm in another club where that secretary did that. It made it very easy to publish the minutes. And it would make it easy for there to be backup copies of the minutes, etc. Perhaps the board might decide to buy a used lap-top (something cheap) for the secretary? > Historically, we seem to operate on "collective memory" as much as (or more > than) minutes, which is of course not optimal. Not optimal?! You have a talent for understatement. This reminds me of a primitive tribe I once heard about that never developed writing. The knowledge of their history was limited to what the elders could remember. > It does explain how we > manage to discuss and re-discuss the same topics over and over even when > people are sure the matter was resolved many times before (like the > publishing of FP/Coe party dates) Not only that, as the officer/director turn-over goes on, year after year, there's a real chance important facts and history will be forgotten that way. > I don't know what the answer is to fixing this situation. We've tried, and > it just doesn't seem to get any better. Optimally meetings would be audio > recorded, the details transcribed, and the official minutes published in > the Ephemeris -- but this is a small organization, and nobody seems to want > a job like that. I was the secretary once (in another club) and did it that way. It wasn't *that* big of a job, but was time consuming and boring. You basically have to sit through the meeting twice, once in real life, again transcribing. Many people wouldn't want go through the bother. Whatever system we come up with, it has to be something that once in place, would be reasonably easy to maintain for people who aren't all that dedicated. > > Specifically, > >*exactly* what money goes into each fund. Is there anything > >else (from the minutes) that Mark hasn't said? > > Is there that level of detail in the minutes, Jim? I'm sure the votes > themselves are there, but so much important detail seems to be in the > (sometimes hours of) discussion that takes place before the voting > happens. How much of that gets in there? And what about "discussions" - > potentially important topics for which there was no contention of opinions, > and which were never put to a vote but "accepted as S.O.P."? I'm sure > there is some of that going on, as well. Technically, minutes only *have* to contain what was done (motions made, vote results, etc), they don't have to contain everything that's said. Ideally, minutes should be somewhere between those two extremes. In this case, those details you speak of that weren't actually part of the original motion, but were just "understood" to be part of it (from the discussion), should have been at least briefly noted. > >By the way, Mark talked about the board voting to automatically > >allow funding for equipment. A vote like that is call a > >"standing rule" and is one step below the bylaws. > > Are you sure that's the same as a discretionary spending > fund? Automatically using funds to pay the bills (without a vote) is what > I think of as a standing rule. Maybe I've got it wrong. Yes, approval to pay routine bills would be. A standing rule is something that has longevity. For example, if the board decided that "from now on, all members will attend meetings wearing black hats." That would be a standing rule. If the board decided that "all members will wear black hats at the next meeting," that would not be a standing rule. In the case of the equipment fund, that's almost like forming a committee, complete with it's own expense account. One way the board maintains control is by regulating how much money goes into that fund. That funding could be a standing rule. And therein lies the rub... From what you said previously, it seems money from any sales automatically goes into that fund. Is that what the board approved? That's one of the things we need to clear up at this point. > Anyway, Gary -- if there are any more questions about treasury stuff, the > standing hand-off offer still stands: Just ask and I'll tell you what I > know or recall. That's fine, thanks. However, that would only help my understanding, it doesn't necessarily give me the go-ahead to do things with these accounts. That's why I wanted to refer back to the minutes and find out exactly how I'm supposed to be maintaining some of these funds. If it will be a problem digging into the minues, the board could always revisit the issue...and we be sure to write it down properly. :) Actually, it's probably a good idea for the board to revisit many of these things once in a while anyway. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 2 01:56:32 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <3C303C82.449C@aenet.net> <3C30FE70.B97@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C32D950.42F0@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Gary Mitchell wrote: > > > 2) Statements from the bank for a savings account in a folder > > marked "savings/gregory" plus another folder with a couple of > > receipts for a Gregory plaque. No other info. > > > Whoever knows about the Gregory fund, please send me a summary > > of it. > > Dr. Boris Gregory was a professor of French Literature at San Jose > State College. He had a lifetime interest in astronomy, and for > retirement, was given or bought one of the earliest C-8 telescopes. [snip] Thanks Jim. All that's remaining is how to maintain it... Mark wrote: > - Started from a donation by a club member (Dr G) > - Intended to provide recognition for contributions to amateur astronomy > and educational efforts in the subject > - Awarded by the board. Mainly when the mood strikes, from what I can > tell. Sometimes annually and sometimes less. Is this accurate? > - The money is kept in a simple savings account, where it gains very little > interest, and will eventually run dry if not added to on occasion. Does this fund get money only by specific donation or by vote of the board (as opposed to something automatic)? > - Some would have the funds placed in a higher interest vehicle, which > sounds good but locks it up more. The fund doesn't get much activity, a higher interest account might be a good idea...but it only has a few hundred dollars. > I've always been somewhat inclined to > just roll it into the checking as another ledger line, since it will need > infusions from the GF on occasion no matter what. Neither has happened > yet, though. Rolling it into the checking account would make it easier to handle, but the interest rate is even less. And, as with the equipment fund, this would be a bad move without proper documentation and instructions. Being in a separate account at least makes it obvious that it's a different fund. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 2 02:00:59 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <3C31097B.F6B@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C32DA5B.5320@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Bill Arnett wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 31, 2001, at 04:10 PM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > > > > ... The list of awardees is on our web site. > > > > That's > > http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html > > It lists Jay Freeman twice. Is that right? > > ??? He should be there just once, but my notes also say twice. Did we > award the award in 2001? I think Jane was the most recent. The award > isn't supposed to be given but once to any person. Damn. I'm supposed > to know all this stuff, but my brain has been slowly turning into mush. > > Kevin and Denni's were lost in the Oakland Hills fire, and the > replacements carried the original dates (1980 and 1981), but perhaps not > the original design. This list of recipients should be included in the documentation I want to make up...but I suppose I should hold off until these questions get settled. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 2 02:27:50 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donation of telescope & binocular References: <20020101192442.56845.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com> <3C32318C.A9E@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C32E0A6.4F42@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Del Johnson wrote: > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > Sorry to butt in but somewhere in my mind is the > > recall that 501(c)3 orgns don't assign a value for the > > benefit of the donor. A receipt for the article is > > given with the value left blank for the donor to > > establish. > > Yes, but. The IRS states that it is the donor's responsibility to > establish value. But I usually put some words in the letter suggesting > a value; as an astronomical association, we are generally qualified to > make such an appraisal. Here is part of a recent letter: > > > Thank you very much for your generous donation of the > > Xxx-brand Dobsonian telescope on (date). > > The scope is complete and in excellent condition. > > > > According to the IRS, determination of the value of a donation > > is your responsibility, but we would estimate the value at $2400. > > Consult IRS publication 561 "Determining the Value of Donated > > Property" for additional guidance. > > > > To meet IRS rules for this letter: SJAA has not provided to > > you any "quid pro quo consideration" in exchange for your donation. > > So I'm advising Mr.Xxxx that it's his responsibility, but also helping > him to do that task. I believe it keeps us legal and still helpful. > That $2400 is perhaps 90% of the going price, as it was a commercial > scope in current production. > > In the present case, the first paragraph will say something about the > unique nature, and the superb design and construction, as a means to > document that this is not an ordinary cobbled-up-at-home telescope. > Dave has described it as "best of show". That may not be a legal > description, but it is not an overstatement. I could validly say > "professionally designed", as industrial design is Jack's profession. > All of this to support a price close to the Obsession 18, which is > 4500$. I think $4000 is very defensible for this scope. Probably more than that. A custom built scope--or anything for that matter--would go for more than a similar item that came off an assembly line, especially if it has superior qualities. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 2 02:49:52 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <157003C0-FEAD-11D5-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C32E5D0.5A66@aenet.net> Bill Arnett wrote: > We need to figure this out. I didn't see anything obvious in the > Ephemeris on the web. I notice that I modified the award web page on > 2001 Aug 8 so perhaps whatever we did happened at the Aug 4 general > meeting or the preceding board meeting? Perhaps the treasurer has some > record of the expense of creating the plaque? Aside from bank statements, the sum total of the treasurer's records on this amounts to only two receipts (from BJ&J Sports Awards and Gifts, San Jose). One paid Aug. 1999, the other paid Feb. 2000...Ed Erbeck Jr and Jane Houston Jones, respectively. There could be more stuffed away in the old receipt files... I'll have to look around. In case anyone is interested... Each plaque costs about $61. As of 9/16/2001, the fund balance is $393.77; interest amounts to $0.25 per month. Gary P.S. OK, after looking through the historical files, I found two more receipts. One handled by Dave North, paid 1/18/1999 and one handled by Jack Zeiders, 6/21/1997. Unfortunately, neither one mentioned who it's for. (Dave's receipt mentioned an attachment, but there wasn't any there.) From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Wed Jan 2 08:10:53 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <3C32D950.42F0@aenet.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <3C303C82.449C@aenet.net> <3C30FE70.B97@svpal.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102080645.00af9100@indigoskies.com> At 01:56 AM 1/2/2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: >Is this accurate? To my knowledge, except for the part that was corrected elsewhere -- that it was created posthumously, and with funds from members (not Dr.G) > > - The money is kept in a simple savings account, where it gains very > little > > interest, and will eventually run dry if not added to on occasion. > >Does this fund get money only by specific donation or by vote >of the board (as opposed to something automatic)? Since I've been around, at least. Mark From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Wed Jan 2 08:25:46 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Funds (was: Observer's Handbooks & Calendars) In-Reply-To: <3C32D25D.64E9@aenet.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231073350.00abf4d0@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102081119.0dfa7f48@indigoskies.com> At 01:26 AM 1/2/2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: >Well, it shouldn't be *that* big of a job, it's just a question >of doing it. And once something like that is done, it wouldn't >have to be done again, just a little maintenance now and then. Even if everyone wrote up their own lists for what they do (as opposed to leaving it to some dedicated individual to discover/document), the lists would no doubt be far from complete; it's hard to get that sort of thing complete on one try. Having people remember to maintain it as they discover other things they do is where it would be most likely to fall out of date. >In the case of the equipment fund, that's almost like forming a >committee, complete with it's own expense account. Absolutely. The loaner program is run by a "committee" (or at least an equipment chair - a committee of one), and was set up to operate independently. >One way the >board maintains control is by regulating how much money goes into >that fund. That funding could be a standing rule. And therein >lies the rub... From what you said previously, it seems money >from any sales automatically goes into that fund. Is that what >the board approved? That's one of the things we need to clear >up at this point. Absolutely for the APDs (which were set out to be used for that purpose), and has also come to be for profits from RASC materials, and other books sold expressly to raise equipment funds (i.e. Full Moon). Looking back, I doubt there was anything more than "general understanding" (not a vote) that proceeds from sales would go there, unless described as going elsewhere. If we wanted to do a big fund-raiser for the observatory fund, then the profits would certainly not go into the equipment fund. Which reminds me that I can't remember something -- where has the Auction and Swap profits gone in past years? It seems to me that some part of it actually went to Equipment for some reason, but most of it went to the GF or OF. >If it will be a problem digging into the minues, the board could >always revisit the issue...and we be sure to write it down >properly. :) Actually, it's probably a good idea for the board >to revisit many of these things once in a while anyway. Agreed. Things change, and so should rules, policies and guidelines. Mark From north at znet.com Tue Jan 1 11:24:08 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <157003C0-FEAD-11D5-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C32E5D0.5A66@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C320CD8.DB15E88F@znet.com> Gary: >>Aside from bank statements, the sum total of the treasurer's records on this amounts to only two receipts<< I'm not certain but I think the one before that was paid for by me, and the one prior to that Jack Zeiders paid for. I'm pretty sure Jack paid for the last one he handled, and I think I declined remuneration but donated it as a membership for someone to the club (John Dobson, as I recall). The point being, you won't find those receipts. It's my understanding that the plaque has been donated more often than not, but my history goes back nowhere near far enough, and most presidents or other members are not so vocal about publicly airing their favors to the club (and those of other people: my apologies to Jack, and of course we'll never have any clear idea how much Ed donated...) Dave From jvn at svpal.org Wed Jan 2 17:01:18 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Funds (was: Observer's Handbooks & Calendars) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231073350.00abf4d0@indigoskies.com> <3C32D25D.64E9@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C33AD5E.7D3C@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote: [big snip] > There are a couple of different ways of going on that. If the > secretary has a laptop, he/she can type in the minutes on the > fly. I'm in another club where that secretary did that. It > made it very easy to publish the minutes. See below. Alternate comment: ROTFLMAO! Alternate 2: You gotta be joking, right?? And I'm a touch typist. You DO want complete sentences, spelling, punctuation, and such trivial?? Very easy???? > I was the secretary once (in another club) and did it that way. > It wasn't *that* big of a job, but was time consuming and boring. > You basically have to sit through the meeting twice, once in real > life, again transcribing. No no no. It took me a full evening, 3 to 4 hours at least, to transcribe the minutes. I tried to capture the flavor of the discussion, who suggested what, etc. Much of it from memory. Then came a couple more hours incorporating the comments after the first draft was circulated. When the latter turned into a fight, I stopped publishing. When someone else did the Minutes, it consisted of what formal motions were made, and the vote. Half a page. Half an hour's debate was summarized as "Discussed how to run the auction. No vote was taken." > > >*exactly* what money goes into each fund. Is there anything > > >else (from the minutes) that Mark hasn't said? > > > > Is there that level of detail in the minutes, Jim? The vote and/or conclusions do, but not much of who suggested variations, etc. > And what about "discussions" - > potentially important topics for which there was no contention > of opinions, and which were never put to a vote but "accepted as > S.O.P."? I'm sure there is some of that going on, as well. I record these as "we agreed...", or "accepted by acclimation". > Technically, minutes only *have* to contain what was done > (motions made, vote results, etc), they don't have to contain > everything that's said. Ideally, minutes should be somewhere > between those two extremes. Yes, and it takes considerable effort to do it. The tape recorder would be ideal if it had separate pickups for each person, no room noise, etc. A single mike will pick up all the noise and a quarter of the speech. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From jvn at svpal.org Wed Jan 2 17:03:46 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <3C303C82.449C@aenet.net> <3C30FE70.B97@svpal.org> <3C32D950.42F0@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C33ADF2.6BFE@svpal.org> > Mark wrote: > > - Started from a donation by a club member (Dr G) > > - Intended to provide recognition for contributions to amateur > > astronomy and educational efforts in the subject > > - Awarded by the board. Mainly when the mood strikes, < < from what I can tell. Sometimes annually and sometimes less. > Is this accurate? Pretty much. Sometimes a couple years go by. Then comes a ball of fire like Jane, and it's obviously time to do an award. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From bill at nineplanets.org Wed Jan 2 20:27:10 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <3C323807.6BC6@svpal.org> Message-ID: <27581512-0002-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 02:28 PM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Aug.4 minutes don't say anything Gregorywise. July 7 says > "A.B.Gregory award -- catches up on history -- check web site". I plead > guilty to writing inadequate notes. > > Continuing back through 2001 minutes, I find no mention of the Gregory > award. My supposedly official list has Jay in 1998 and 2001. A search > of the newsletters finds a picture of him with the award in the March > issue; the presentation was at the Jan.30, 1999 meeting where Jay was > also the speaker. > > So there. The remaining question is, what exactly was said at the > August 2001 board meeting, that caused both myself and BillA to add Jay > for a second time? I simply don't recall. Does the web page agree with your notes for the other years? I vaguely recall making some sort of correction. Perhaps I made some sort of typo, too. If no one can come up with anything better, I suppose we'll have to ask the general membership and especially Jay :-( -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From bhavner at earthlink.net Wed Jan 2 21:15:17 2002 From: bhavner at earthlink.net (Bob Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Speaker Message-ID: Tim Castellano will be speaking at the May 18th meeting. He will present the Transit Search Project. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20020102/b41a69f5/attachment.html From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Wed Jan 2 22:03:35 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <27581512-0002-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> References: <3C323807.6BC6@svpal.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102215928.00a859a8@indigoskies.com> At 08:27 PM 1/2/2002, Bill Arnett wrote: >I vaguely recall making some sort of correction. Perhaps I made some sort >of typo, too. If no one can come up with anything better, I suppose we'll >have to ask the general membership and especially Jay :-( If one were given out in 2001, wouldn't it be true that either (a) Gary would have done it, and would likely remember; and even barring that the bank records should show ir. (b) One of us donated it and either way (c) Some one of us would have had to deal with the trophy shop to have it made. Seems to me that something was incorrectly said or written somewhere, and Bill and JVN both fell victim to it. Or one fell victim to the other's mistake. I, for one, have no recollection of any ABG activity this past year. I believe the site is simply in error. M From bill at nineplanets.org Wed Jan 2 22:41:23 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102215928.00a859a8@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 2, 2002, at 10:03 PM, Mark Taylor wrote: > At 08:27 PM 1/2/2002, Bill Arnett wrote: >> I vaguely recall making some sort of correction. Perhaps I made some >> sort of typo, too. If no one can come up with anything better, I >> suppose we'll have to ask the general membership and especially Jay :-( > > If one were given out in 2001, wouldn't it be true that either > (a) Gary would have done it, and would likely remember; and even > barring that the bank records should show ir. > (b) One of us donated it > and either way > (c) Some one of us would have had to deal with the trophy shop to > have it made. Yeah, but if it was Bill O. then we wouldn't know since he's unlikely to respond to any of this :-( > Seems to me that something was incorrectly said or written somewhere, > and Bill and JVN both fell victim to it. Or one fell victim to the > other's mistake. > > I, for one, have no recollection of any ABG activity this past year. I > believe the site is simply in error. There's no doubt it's in error. The question is what's the right fix. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From jvn at svpal.org Wed Jan 2 23:39:46 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Speaker References: Message-ID: <3C340AC2.7674@svpal.org> Bob Havner wrote: > > Tim Castellano will be speaking at the May 18th meeting. He will > present the Transit Search Project. Good! I've written it on the master calendar. I presume this is a search for extrasolar planets, transiting their primary? BTW, I have a Space Pen for you, courtesy of the Tech Museum. I'll be there Friday with the key. Clear Skies!? -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Thu Jan 3 00:26:33 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102215928.00a859a8@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103002021.00b16e80@indigoskies.com> At 10:41 PM 1/2/2002, Bill Arnett wrote: >There's no doubt it's in error. The question is what's the right fix. If neither bank records nor meeting minutes show us discussing, paying for, or awarding it, and nobody remembers doing it, then it (apparently) never happened. So the fix would be to remove the erroneous line for the non-existent 2001 award. The last ABG I handled was Jane's (which is also the last one awarded before our mystery 2001 entry) Mark "If you didn't say it, you didn't do it." - D. P. Roberts From jvn at svpal.org Thu Jan 3 00:23:33 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <27581512-0002-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C341505.363F@svpal.org> Bill Arnett wrote: > > On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 02:28 PM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: [snip] > > So there. The remaining question is, what exactly was said at the > > August 2001 board meeting, that caused both myself and BillA to add Jay > > for a second time? I simply don't recall. > > Does the web page agree with your notes for the other years? Yes. I just checked it again. > I vaguely recall making some sort of correction. Perhaps I made some > sort of typo, too. If no one can come up with anything better, I > suppose we'll have to ask the general membership and especially Jay :-( I'll write Jack Zeiders -- he makes up the awards. I feel confident that you should remove that 2001 entry. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From bill at nineplanets.org Thu Jan 3 00:39:01 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <3C341505.363F@svpal.org> Message-ID: <56074478-0025-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 12:23 AM, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > ... I feel confident > that you should remove that 2001 entry. OK, it's gone. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Thu Jan 3 00:40:44 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history In-Reply-To: <3C341505.363F@svpal.org> References: <27581512-0002-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103003645.00a859a8@indigoskies.com> At 12:23 AM 1/3/2002, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > I'll write Jack Zeiders -- he makes up the awards. Has he been moonlighting at "BJ&J Sports Awards"? ;-) (That's where the last 2 or 3 were made and paid, AFAIK) > I feel confident >that you should remove that 2001 entry. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Mark From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jan 3 00:54:46 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <3C303C82.449C@aenet.net> <3C30FE70.B97@svpal.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020102080645.00af9100@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <3C341C56.1E65@aenet.net> Sorry Mark, I should have made it a little more obvious... I was asking Jim for verification from the minutes. Gary Mark Taylor wrote: > > At 01:56 AM 1/2/2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: > >Is this accurate? > > To my knowledge, except for the part that was corrected elsewhere -- that > it was created posthumously, and with funds from members (not Dr.G) > > > > - The money is kept in a simple savings account, where it gains very > > little > > > interest, and will eventually run dry if not added to on occasion. > > > >Does this fund get money only by specific donation or by vote > >of the board (as opposed to something automatic)? > > Since I've been around, at least. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jan 3 01:27:02 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Funds (was: Observer's Handbooks & Calendars) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231073350.00abf4d0@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020102081119.0dfa7f48@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <3C3423E6.7ADF@aenet.net> Mark Taylor wrote: > > At 01:26 AM 1/2/2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: > >Well, it shouldn't be *that* big of a job, it's just a question > >of doing it. And once something like that is done, it wouldn't > >have to be done again, just a little maintenance now and then. > > Even if everyone wrote up their own lists for what they do (as opposed to > leaving it to some dedicated individual to discover/document), the lists > would no doubt be far from complete; it's hard to get that sort of thing > complete on one try. Having people remember to maintain it as they > discover other things they do is where it would be most likely to fall out > of date. Perhaps every i wouldn't be dotted and every t crossed, but I'm pretty sure ninty percent of the job could be covered. It may not be perfect, but it's a far cry better than what we've got now. > > From what you said previously, it seems money > >from any sales automatically goes into that fund. Is that what > >the board approved? That's one of the things we need to clear > >up at this point. > > Absolutely for the APDs (which were set out to be used for that purpose), > and has also come to be for profits from RASC materials, and other books > sold expressly to raise equipment funds (i.e. Full Moon). Looking back, I > doubt there was anything more than "general understanding" (not a vote) > that proceeds from sales would go there, unless described as going elsewhere. That's a mistake. An organization can't do things based on general understanding at the time. People forget, new people come on board later, others move on (and take that understanding with them). This is why things are formally proposed by motion and voted upon--and recorded in the minutes. Sometimes that process might seem to be too formal, especially for a club like this, but there are good reasons for it. We're seeing the alternative here now--lot's of confusion, people in power not knowing what to do, etc. In the case of starting a fund, even that (minutes) isn't enough. There should be at least a brief set of instructions on how to administer the fund. I don't plan to be treasurer forever, how will the next guy know what to do? And *that* is my main point. The good news is that these things aren't that difficult. We don't start new funds or set up new committees very often. And when we do, they don't have *that* much complexity. One or two paragraphs of instructions could cover it in most cases. > >If it will be a problem digging into the minues, the board could > >always revisit the issue...and we be sure to write it down > >properly. :) Actually, it's probably a good idea for the board > >to revisit many of these things once in a while anyway. > > Agreed. Things change, and so should rules, policies and guidelines. Perhaps the best way to go is to forget about how these funds were managed in the past and simply re-do them at the next board meeting. ...I'll bring a pen and a piece of paper. ;) Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jan 3 02:16:32 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Funds (was: Observer's Handbooks & Calendars) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011230000945.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011230091758.00ab2650@indigoskies.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231073350.00abf4d0@indigoskies.com> <3C32D25D.64E9@aenet.net> <3C33AD5E.7D3C@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C342F80.1D29@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Gary Mitchell wrote: > [big snip] > > > There are a couple of different ways of going on that. If the > > secretary has a laptop, he/she can type in the minutes on the > > fly. I'm in another club where that secretary did that. It > > made it very easy to publish the minutes. > > See below. Alternate comment: ROTFLMAO! I'll pause while you get back in the chair.... ;) > Alternate 2: You gotta be > joking, right?? No, I'm not. > And I'm a touch typist. You DO want complete > sentences, spelling, punctuation, and such trivial?? Very easy???? I don't know about you, but I can type about as fast as I can write...if it needs to be readable afterward. ;) I use a word processor that does spelling correction on the fly. If it's in doubt, it puts a wiggly red line under the words it thinks may be wrong. It only takes a minute to scan down a page of text double checking. Even if you use a simple editor at the meeting, it doesn't take that much to clean it up later. > > I was the secretary once (in another club) and did it that way. > > It wasn't *that* big of a job, but was time consuming and boring. > > You basically have to sit through the meeting twice, once in real > > life, again transcribing. > > No no no. It took me a full evening, 3 to 4 hours at least, to > transcribe the minutes. I tried to capture the flavor of the > discussion, who suggested what, etc. Much of it from memory. Then came > a couple more hours incorporating the comments after the first draft was > circulated. When the latter turned into a fight, I stopped publishing. It sounds like you were going overboard... Trying to capture the *flavor* of a discussion?! These are minutes, Jim, not a novel. :) > When someone else did the Minutes, it consisted of what formal motions > were made, and the vote. Half a page. Half an hour's debate was > summarized as "Discussed how to run the auction. No vote was taken." That's going a little too far in the other direction. How about somewhere between? > > > >*exactly* what money goes into each fund. Is there anything > > > >else (from the minutes) that Mark hasn't said? > > > > > > Is there that level of detail in the minutes, Jim? > > The vote and/or conclusions do, but not much of who suggested > variations, etc. For motions, the minimum is to record the motion, who made it, whether it was seconded (don't need to mention who seconded it), and the vote results. Only the person who originally made the motion can approve that it be changed. That's the minimum. It would be good to include a *summary* of the discussion, just to have a record of people's concerns, and the thinking process, etc... but I emphasize "summary." :) > Yes, and it takes considerable effort to do it. The tape recorder > would be ideal if it had separate pickups for each person, no room > noise, etc. A single mike will pick up all the noise and a quarter of > the speech. I've done it both ways...it's not *that* hard (either way). Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jan 3 02:35:41 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <157003C0-FEAD-11D5-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C32E5D0.5A66@aenet.net> <3C320CD8.DB15E88F@znet.com> Message-ID: <3C3433FD.4D47@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > > Gary: >>Aside from bank statements, the sum total of the treasurer's > records on this amounts to only two receipts<< > > I'm not certain but I think the one before that was paid for by me, and > the one prior to that Jack Zeiders paid for. I'm pretty sure Jack paid > for the last one he handled, and I think I declined remuneration but > donated it as a membership for someone to the club (John Dobson, as I > recall). > The point being, you won't find those receipts. There should at least be something in the records that the award was given. If the money didn't come from the fund, that's easy enough to note...and should be. I just thought of something: To avoid these questions and lack of knowledge in the future, how about the award *always* gets paid from the Gregory fund. If someone wants to donate the cost, they would make a separate donation to the fund, not to an individual plaque. I realize that may mean a little more paperwork, but it'll be easier to have a complete record that way--including donations to the fund. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Thu Jan 3 19:06:40 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gregory Award history References: <27581512-0002-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020103003645.00a859a8@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <3C351C40.59E7@svpal.org> Mark Taylor wrote: > > At 12:23 AM 1/3/2002, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > I'll write Jack Zeiders -- he makes up the awards. > > Has he been moonlighting at "BJ&J Sports Awards"? ;-) > (That's where the last 2 or 3 were made and paid, AFAIK) I assumed that he was still doing the legwork getting the awards made up. I suppose BJ&J might have some records, too? He wrote that he recalls Ed, Jay, and Jane, and that he doesn't think Jay was awarded twice. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jan 4 00:23:00 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: [SJAA-announce] SJAA Events this Weekend! References: Message-ID: <3C356664.E32@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote to SJAA-announce: [snip] > We also have copies of the RASC Wall Calendar available for $10 > (Discounted from $15) Well, I guess Mike made the call. Ten bucks it is. Mike: It would have been nice if you told me, just in case I didn't catch the advertisement. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jan 4 00:25:17 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Calendar price References: <3C356664.E32@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C3566ED.2B51@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote to SJAA-announce: [snip] > We also have copies of the RASC Wall Calendar available for $10 > (Discounted from $15) Well, I guess Mike made the call. Ten bucks it is. Mike: It would have been nice if you told me, just in case I didn't catch the advertisement. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jan 4 00:46:51 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: [SJAA-announce] SJAA Events this Weekend! References: <3C356664.E32@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C356BFB.5E3E@aenet.net> Sorry for the duplicate, folks. Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri Jan 4 11:19:53 2002 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Calendar price In-Reply-To: <3C3566ED.2B51@aenet.net> Message-ID: I just copied what we did last year. It seems to me putting the cost on $5 increments will make life easier for those selling the materials in addition to making a buck or two for the club. People are still getting a 1/3 discount! Mike On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: > Michael Koop wrote to SJAA-announce: > [snip] > > We also have copies of the RASC Wall Calendar available for $10 > > (Discounted from $15) > > Well, I guess Mike made the call. Ten bucks it is. > > Mike: It would have been nice if you told me, just in case > I didn't catch the advertisement. > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jan 4 15:05:29 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Grant from Andrah Foundation -- Ephemeris article Message-ID: <3C363539.E2A@svpal.org> Morris: for the Ephemeris Andrah Foundation supports SJAA As in previous years, the Andrah Foundation of Michigan, through it's local representatives, Paul and Ann Summers, have given $750 to SJAA. This is to promote education and public awareness of Astronomy. We thank Paul and Ann, and the Andrah Foundation, for their generosity. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jan 4 15:12:17 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Dates of two ATM class Message-ID: <3C3636D1.3DF@svpal.org> This is a correction/clarification to the ATM class schedule, as given in the Ephemeris for December 2001, page 5. Under "Thursday Classes" are listed Mar.8 and Apr.5, which are Fridays. They should be Mar.7 and Apr.4. BillA: Please make this change in the 2002 schedule previously sent. For each date, change the "Fr" to "Th", and decrement the date. Thanks! The hall at Houge Park is already reserved for those two Thursdays, as well as all the others. Clear Skies (and schedules)! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jan 4 15:44:38 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Calendar notes for Ephemeris Message-ID: <3C363E66.513@svpal.org> Here are the details for March. The ATM date has been fixed. March 8 -Fr- Houge Park star party Sset 6:09 pm, 21% moon rise 4:22 am. 7 -Th- ATM Class III -- Houge Park. Time 8 pm 9 -Sa- Deep-Sky weekend. Sset 6:08 pm, 13% moon rise 5:01 am. 16 -Sa- Deep-Sky weekend. Sset 6:14 pm, 8% moon sets 8:50 pm. 22 -Fr- Astronomy Class III -- Lunar Observing, Dave & Akkana North. 22 -Fr- Houge Park star party Sset 6:21 pm, 61% moon sets 2:50 am. 23 -Sa- ATM Class IV -- Houge Park, 7:30 pm 30 -Sa- General Meeting at Houge Park. Christopher Mauche, LLL, satellite observations of binaries and cataclysmic variable stars. 31 -Su- Easter. School vacations week before or after. Coming speakers: January 26 - Mike Bennett, ASP; Sofia Airborne Observatory February 23 - Tim Thompson, NASA; Stellar Evolution. Kevin Avila, Project Astro March 30 - Christopher Mauch, LLL, Satellite Observations of binaries and cataclysmic variable stars April 28 - Auction XXII (Sunday) May 18 - Tom Castellano on the Transit Search Project June 22 - open School Star Parties: Mar 18 -- Toyon Elementary, NE. San Jose Mar 19 -- Laurelwood Elementary, NE San Jose Mar 20 -- West Valley Elementary, Sunnyvale Mar 21 -- Silver Oak, far E. San Jose Mar 25 -- Alternate date, Toyon Apr 23 -- Bachrodt School, mid-San Jose Dec. 5 -- Pending, or 12th Dec. 12 -- Pending, or 5th -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page PS. BillA, perhaps you would drop this into the 2002 calendar page? Thanks! From north at znet.com Fri Jan 4 00:27:15 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Calendar notes for Ephemeris References: <3C363E66.513@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C356763.CB3C53FC@znet.com> Yo Jim, the March 22 Houge/Class would be a very good Moon Class night... if it is yet unattached. Dave From mojo at whiteoaks.com Sat Jan 5 15:45:46 2002 From: mojo at whiteoaks.com (Morris Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] New Star Party list (fwd) Message-ID: Eh. :) For your consideration ... I might mention it in the next Ephemeris ... Mojo -- Morris Jones <*> San Rafael, CA mojo@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:35:23 -0700 From: Pat and Arleen To: ephemeris@whiteoaks.com Subject: New Star Party list Did you hear about our comprehensive Star Party listing on the web? Check it out: http://chartmarker.tripod.com. We pulled together all the star party listings we could find from the many sources on the web and put them into one list. Then we added a link to the Star Party web page. Please pass the news to your members. We had one gentleman respond with his pleasure at seeing our list. He plans his family vacations so he can stop at nearby star parties. We?re sure many other amateur astronomers do the same. If you have an annual Star Party that is not listed, please email us with the link and dates and we will include it. If we did get your Star Party, please check it to be sure we have the correct dates and link, and let us know as soon as you have the dates set for the following year. We also have an interesting line of products that we produce. In exchange for a link on your star party web page (or your club web page) we would be willing to donate several of these items for door prizes. Ask your club president or Star Party coordinator to contact us by email if you are interested. Pat and Arleen Heimann Chartmarkers and More From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Mon Jan 14 09:59:28 2002 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Feb Observational Astronomy Class Message-ID: Akkana has agreed to do the February Observational Astronomy Class on Observing the planets on Feb 8th while the planets are up high. Please make a note of it in the Calendar and the hotline message. Start time 7:30. Mike From north at znet.com Mon Jan 14 17:54:33 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class References: Message-ID: <3C438BD9.C44A1ADC@znet.com> Speaking of which, I did submit a request for a class date. What happened with that? Also, I never did figure out from the back and forth on the publications-for-sale issue -- who has the RASC Observer's Handbooks? d From mojo at whiteoaks.com Mon Jan 14 19:15:12 2002 From: mojo at whiteoaks.com (Morris Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] gregory award ... Message-ID: In the midst of all the Gregory Award discussion, is it timely for me to print Jim Van Nuland's award history in the Ephemeris for some reason? Is the board seeking nominations or anything? Mojo -- Morris Jones <*> San Rafael, CA mojo@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From bhavner at earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 20:23:25 2002 From: bhavner at earthlink.net (Bob Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class In-Reply-To: <3C438BD9.C44A1ADC@znet.com> Message-ID: It was March 22nd. Seems good to me. Bob -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-admin@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-admin@sjaa.net]On Behalf Of Dave North Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 5:55 PM To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class Speaking of which, I did submit a request for a class date. What happened with that? Also, I never did figure out from the back and forth on the publications-for-sale issue -- who has the RASC Observer's Handbooks? d _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From bill at nineplanets.org Mon Jan 14 20:20:55 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] gregory award ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4498C718-096F-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Monday, January 14, 2002, at 07:15 PM, Morris Jones wrote: > In the midst of all the Gregory Award discussion, is it timely for me > to print Jim Van Nuland's award history in the Ephemeris for some > reason? That's a good idea. Then perhaps if there are any errors someone will point them out :-) -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jan 14 23:35:46 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] gregory award ... References: <4498C718-096F-11D6-A3D7-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C43DBD2.4466@aenet.net> Bill Arnett wrote: > > On Monday, January 14, 2002, at 07:15 PM, Morris Jones wrote: > > > In the midst of all the Gregory Award discussion, is it timely for me > > to print Jim Van Nuland's award history in the Ephemeris for some > > reason? > > That's a good idea. Then perhaps if there are any errors someone will > point them out :-) I think it's a good idea too. However, it will put presure on the board to come up with a candidate this year. Do we have anyone in mind? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jan 14 23:42:24 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class References: <3C438BD9.C44A1ADC@znet.com> Message-ID: <3C43DD60.26C2@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: Also, I never did figure out from the back and forth on the > publications-for-sale issue -- who has the RASC Observer's Handbooks? > > d I've got them, (the calendars too). The "back-n-forth" pretty much happened only with the calendars, we quickly decided the books should be $15. We never agreed on the calendar price. Then Mike put out an ad mentioning that the calendars would be $10. That pretty much settled it. :) I'll bring everything to the next meeting (of course). There's a public star party at Houge this Friday. If it's not cloudy I'll try to remember to bring them there too...although that means selling them out of my trunk, literally. Would that look bad? :) Gary From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jan 14 23:24:10 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] gregory award ... References: Message-ID: <3C43D91A.4662@svpal.org> Morris Jones wrote: > > In the midst of all the Gregory Award discussion, is it timely for me > to print Jim Van Nuland's award history in the Ephemeris for some > reason? No reason either way. Perhaps it should go on the web, expanding on the very short summary there? > Is the board seeking nominations or anything? It seems to call for itself from time to time; we don't actively seek to award it. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From mojo at whiteoaks.com Tue Jan 15 01:51:43 2002 From: mojo at whiteoaks.com (Morris Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] February Ephemeris put to bed Message-ID: There's a preview PDF file of the February Ephemeris here: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0202/EphFeb02.pdf The file is in the hands of Accuprint now. Dave, you might drop them a note regarding copy count. Best regards, Mojo -- Morris Jones <*> San Rafael, CA mojo@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From north at znet.com Tue Jan 15 10:50:47 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class References: Message-ID: <3C447A05.9CAD1EE7@znet.com> Bob: >>It was March 22nd. Seems good to me.<< Good enough for me, then. It's on my calendar officially. Dave From north at znet.com Tue Jan 15 10:52:01 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observational Astronomy Class References: <3C438BD9.C44A1ADC@znet.com> <3C43DD60.26C2@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C447A4F.D02D0FBC@znet.com> Gary: >>I've got them, (the calendars too).<< Great. We need one of those handbooks to reference for the moon/planet columns! >>that means selling them out of my trunk, literally. Would that look bad? :)<< It's in the grand tradition of the club... Dave From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jan 18 23:46:32 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donation: Eyepiece Message-ID: <3C492458.6E56@svpal.org> Hi, Morris, Bob Dow of Redwood City has donated a 6mm Edscorp orthoscopic eyepiece, in original cubical box. It's been turned over to Mike for the loaner program. SJAA thanks Bob for his generosity. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site PS: Mike, you were right; I had not posted about this. From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jan 21 16:55:36 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Calendar notes, April Message-ID: <3C4CB888.5330@svpal.org> April 4 -Th- ATM Class V -- Houge Park, 8 pm. 5 -Fr- Astronomy Class IV 5 -Fr- Houge Park star party Sset 6:34 pm, 35% moon rises 3:04 am. 6 -Sa- Deep-Sky weekend. Sset 6:33 pm, 26% moon rises 3:38 am. 7 -Su- DST start. 1 am -> 2. 13 -Sa- Deep-Sky weekend. Sset 7:39 pm, 2% moon sets 8:43 pm. 15 -Mo- TAX day 19 -Fr- Houge Park star party Sset 7:46 pm, 46% moon sets 2:37 am. Astronomy day 20 -Sa- ATM Class VI. Houge Park, 7:30 pm 28 -Su- General Meeting: Auction XXII Speakers: Jan.26 - Mike Bennett, on SOFIA Feb.23 - Tim Thompson on stellar evolution Mar.30 - Christopher Mauch on binary observations Apr.28 - Auction XXII (Sunday) May.18 - Tim Castellano, transit search Jun.22 and following: open School star parties (as of Jan.21): Jan. 22 -- Steinbeck Middle, SE San Jose Jan. 23 -- Bernal Intermediate, SE San Jose Jan. 24 -- Sakamoto Elementary (3rd try) Feb. 12 -- Dove Hill Elementary, E. San Jose Feb. 25 -- Millbrook School, NE San Jose Mar 12 -- Meadows Elementary, San Jose Mar 14 -- Santa Rita school, Los Altos Mar 18 -- Toyon Elementary, NE. San Jose Mar 19 -- Laurelwood Elementary, NE San Jose Mar 20 -- West Valley Elementary, Sunnyvale Mar 21 -- Silver Oak, far E. San Jose Mar 25 -- Alternate date, Toyon Apr 23 -- Bachrodt School, mid-San Jose MORRIS: Pick up the current list from so you get the ones that come in between now and your deadline. BOARD BUSINESS: ITEM: formalize is the hours for the Auction. Presumably as last year: hall open at 10:30 for setup and registration; selling starts at noon. ITEM: ask for an auctioneer. ITEM: shall we do swap meet too? Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From bhavner at earthlink.net Thu Jan 24 23:49:36 2002 From: bhavner at earthlink.net (Bob Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Speaker for June Message-ID: Hi all, I have confirmed Robert Naeye For the June 22nd meeting. His talk will be: "The Great Pluto Debate". 2002 SJAA Speakers Schedule Jan. 26 Mike Bennett SOFIA Feb. 23 Tim Thompson Stellar Evolution Karin Avila Project Astro Intro March 30 Christopher Mauche A "Pro-Am" Study of Dwarf Nova Outbursts May 18 Tim Castellano Planet Transit Search Project June 22 Robert Naeye The Great Pluto Debate Bob Havner San Jose Astronomical Association bhavner@earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20020124/21cf0107/winmail.bin From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Sat Jan 26 09:24:23 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Probably won't be at meeting Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126092107.047074c0@wheresmymailserver.com> A heads up: Unfortunately we're dealing with some critical bugs at work, and there's a very good chance that I'll have to spend the day at the office. Sorry! Mark From bill at nineplanets.org Mon Jan 28 22:58:39 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes Message-ID: <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Minutes of the meeting of the SJAA Board of Directors Jan 26, 2002 The meeting was called to order at 6:36PM in the meeting room at Houge Park. All directors were present except Mark Taylor, who was excused. The Treasurer reported the account balances as: $7684.57 (checking), $2794.67 (money market) and $394.51 (Gregory Fund). Gary is making good progress getting the records in better order. Sales of the RASC handbooks and APDs are going slowly. We'll need to push them some more at the meeting. Mike wanted a report of about the number of members who have joined and left in the last month. But since membership list not kept by the Secretary but by Dave North, who is no longer a Board member, and Dave wasn't present we were unable to get that. It was suggested that we need a better system in this respect. Mike reported that the loaner program is going fine with lots of recent transfers. He also reported the recent donations from Peggy Bernard (10" Orion Dob) and Jack Zieders (very fine 17" scope and large battleship binos). Mike also reported that the first Observational Astronomy class went very well and was heavily attended. And that we have Jack's old slides which need to be copied. He suggested that the club buy a slide scanner for that purpose as it wouldn't be all that much more expensive than getting the slides scanned professionally. After some discussion it was agreed to wait and see if a better alternative presented itself (ie some club member with a scanner who could do the job) but that purchasing a scanner would be a good idea otherwise. Bob Havner has lined up speakers through June! School star parties are going well, as usual, but, also as usual, a few more scopes are sometimes needed. Elections for the Board are next month and we're still short of candidates. After the meeting Tom Whitemore agreed to run but we still need one more. Mike spoke to our insurance agent and was informed that we probably shouldn't be selling "electrical items" at the swap meet. This uniquely American PITA will probably have to be dealt with by having a bunch of disclaimers for anyone who buys anything at the swap or borrows one of the powered loaner scopes. Bill suggested that we ignore this in protest but was reminded that if there was a lawsuit it might involve the directors *personally*. Mike suggested that we form a committee to recommend future recipients of the Gregory Award with the members of that committee being all the previous recipients. Jim, as the only recipient present at the time, agreed to contact the other recipients and see if this will work. There was a brief discussion of the problems at Coe and elsewhere during the 2001 Leonids. Since we are listed as a "sponsor" of the "event" there was some suggestion that we might be responsible if there was a problem. But more positively that if we organized something more orderly for similar future events it might be an opportunity for SJAA to gain some positive publicity. It was suggested that SJAA might sponsor a weekend event at Mt Wilson and rent a bus to get there. Everyone thought that would be fun but no action was taken. The recent debacle wrt our records about the Gregory Award prompted a more general discussion of the poor state of our meeting minutes. Jim takes notes and keeps them on paper but there's nothing electronic (and hence it is very difficult to search). Mike proposed that the board members rotate the responsibility of taking notes up each month, writing them up, and publishing them on the Board mailing list. A paper copy can be printed for Jim's permanent record. No agreement was reached about an electronic archive (but once the files are created that's pretty easy). The meeting was adjourned at 7:55 with several items on the agenda items (Auction, Messier Marathon) still pending. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jan 29 02:18:11 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal Message-ID: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave North includes an AANC renewal letter. It's just a form letter, there's no mention of SJAA's name, nor an expiration date. (Not to put too fine of a point on it, but that by itself strikes me as a bit, well, "amateurish.") Are we an AANC memeber? If so, should we renew? It doesn't look like there were any checks made out to the AANC for memberhsip last year about this time. It's $20 per year. Hey, that's more than SJAA dues! Do they have a loaner program? ;) The letter indicates there are some 30 astronomy clubs in Northern CA. I wonder how many are AANC members (it didn't say). Gary Mitchell Treasurer P.S. The AANC (Astronomical Association of No. CA) calls itself an umbrella organization for No. CA astronomy clubs. From bill at nineplanets.org Tue Jan 29 02:22:11 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal In-Reply-To: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> Message-ID: <0E4E3D44-14A2-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> We should renew. They do some good things, incl the annual FPK Star-B-Que. Jane Houston Jones is the president of AANC. Their WWW site is: http://www.aanc-astronomy.org/ On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 02:18 AM, Gary Mitchell wrote: > The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave > North includes an AANC renewal letter. It's just a form > letter, there's no mention of SJAA's name, nor an expiration > date. (Not to put too fine of a point on it, but that by > itself strikes me as a bit, well, "amateurish.") > > Are we an AANC memeber? If so, should we renew? It doesn't > look like there were any checks made out to the AANC for > memberhsip last year about this time. It's $20 per year. > Hey, that's more than SJAA dues! Do they have a loaner > program? ;) > > The letter indicates there are some 30 astronomy clubs in > Northern CA. I wonder how many are AANC members (it didn't > say). > > Gary Mitchell > Treasurer > > P.S. The AANC (Astronomical Association of No. CA) calls > itself an umbrella organization for No. CA astronomy clubs. > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From jvn at svpal.org Tue Jan 29 02:32:44 2002 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal References: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C567A4C.78C@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote: > > The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave > North includes an AANC renewal letter. [snip] > Are we an AANC member? If so, should we renew? That's the AANC. Yes, we're a member, have been for some years. They put on a nice conference each year. I'm guessing, but perhaps last year the renewal notice came much later? Send a check. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jan 29 02:52:37 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes References: <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> Bill Arnett wrote: > > Minutes of the meeting of the SJAA Board of Directors > Jan 26, 2002 > > The meeting was called to order at 6:36PM in the meeting room at Houge > Park. All directors were present except Mark Taylor, who was excused. > > The Treasurer reported the account balances as: $7684.57 (checking), > $2794.67 (money market) and $394.51 (Gregory Fund). Gary is making good > progress getting the records in better order. > > Sales of the RASC handbooks and APDs are going slowly. We'll need to > push them some more at the meeting. This isn't a correction to the minutes, just FYI: We sold about 2/3 of the RASC books and all of the calendars at the general meeting. We sold a number of APDs too, but still have quite a few left. [snip] > Mike also reported that the first Observational Astronomy class went > very well and was heavily attended. And that we have Jack's old > slides which need to be copied. He suggested that the club buy a > slide scanner for that purpose as it wouldn't be all that much more > expensive than getting the slides scanned professionally. After some > discussion it was agreed to wait and see if a better alternative > presented itself (ie some club member with a scanner who could do the > job) but that purchasing a scanner would be a good idea otherwise. Something just occurs to me...I should have thought of this at the meeting: We can copy slides to slides, you know. I don't have one, but I understand there are contraptions for cameras made specifically to do this very thing. [snip] > Mike spoke to our insurance agent and was informed that we probably > shouldn't be selling "electrical items" at the swap meet. This > uniquely American PITA will probably have to be dealt with by having a > bunch of disclaimers for anyone who buys anything at the swap or > borrows one of the powered loaner scopes. Bill suggested that we > ignore this in protest but was reminded that if there was a lawsuit it > might involve the directors *personally*. It was pointed out that one of the main reasons for a club to be incorporated is to insulate the board and officers from this sort of thing. BTW, FWITW: I very much agree with Bill. The world is getting far too legalistic (is that a word?). [snip] > The recent debacle wrt our records about the Gregory Award prompted a > more general discussion of the poor state of our meeting minutes. Jim > takes notes and keeps them on paper but there's nothing electronic > (and hence it is very difficult to search). Mike proposed that the > board members rotate the responsibility of taking notes up each month, > writing them up, and publishing them on the Board mailing list. A > paper copy can be printed for Jim's permanent record. No agreement > was reached about an electronic archive (but once the files are > created that's pretty easy). IIRC, this was a motion which was seconded. We voted on it and it passed. That should be in the minutes. Gary From bill at nineplanets.org Tue Jan 29 02:59:30 2002 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes In-Reply-To: <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> Message-ID: <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 02:52 AM, Gary Mitchell wrote: > ... We can copy slides to slides, you know. I > don't have one, but I understand there are contraptions for > cameras made specifically to do this very thing. That's not as easy as it seems if you want a good quality copy. You need a special copy lens and a contraption to hold everything steady and flat; not at all cheap. But more importantly, the result is just another slide. It's much better to have it in digital form. > ...[snip] >> The recent debacle wrt our records about the Gregory Award prompted a >> more general discussion of the poor state of our meeting minutes. Jim >> takes notes and keeps them on paper but there's nothing electronic >> (and hence it is very difficult to search). Mike proposed that the >> board members rotate the responsibility of taking notes up each month, >> writing them up, and publishing them on the Board mailing list. A >> paper copy can be printed for Jim's permanent record. No agreement >> was reached about an electronic archive (but once the files are >> created that's pretty easy). > > IIRC, this was a motion which was seconded. We voted on it > and it passed. That should be in the minutes. I don't recall exactly what the motion was. My recollection is that we will try this for a while and see how it goes. Anyone have a better memory of it or a specific suggestion for a change to the text of the minutes? -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org Redwood City, CA USA http://nineplanets.org/ 37 27 38 N 122 16 11 W From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jan 29 03:08:40 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal References: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> <3C567A4C.78C@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3C5682B8.23B7@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Gary Mitchell wrote: > > > > The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave > > North includes an AANC renewal letter. [snip] > > > Are we an AANC member? If so, should we renew? > > That's the AANC. Yes, we're a member, have been for some years. They > put on a nice conference each year. I'm guessing, but perhaps last year > the renewal notice came much later? Send a check. I just went over the checkbook again more carefully, and it looks like we did renew last year. There was a $370 reimbursement to you (Jim) on 1/19/2001 which includes $20 for AANC. Gary From jane at whiteoaks.com Tue Jan 29 09:45:41 2002 From: jane at whiteoaks.com (Jane Houston Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal References: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3C56DFC5.8020403@whiteoaks.com> Last year the annual letter went out in early February, and before that I don't think there were letters sent out, which is one reason I "volunteered" to do the membership solicitation job beginning last year. Sorry it sounds amateurish, but I am an amateur astronomer! There are 29 paid club members of the AANC for 2001. This includes most of the local astronomy clubs from Santa Cruz to Chico, and some of the Science Centers, Astronomy Businesses and so forth. Take a look at the AANC Northern California Astronomy Resource Guide on our website to see who the members are. Many newspapers and radio and TV stations refer or link to the AANC website and contact people from that list when they need regional astro information. Astronomy Day was founded by the AANC in 1973 by AANC President Doug Berger and Dernni Medlock. The AANC promotes communication between astronomy clubs and coordinates public events. Each year we publicize all the area-wide astronomy day activities, provide information about special celestial events, and hold a day-long conference. Last year there were more SJAA members at the Chabot conference than from any other club. This year, the event will be held May 18 and will be co-hosted by the College of San Mateo. We also use our $20.00 membership renewals to provide astronomy resources to various astronomy club. We try to give out $500.00 each year for things like sponsoring one Sonoma County Astronomical Society Striking Sparks telescope ($175), buying slide sets for the Hercules Stargazers and the Santa Cruz Astronomy Club to show before their public star parties, etc.Any club can ask for funds for resources like this. Last but not least, the AANC has two email lists, one which includes a couple contacts from each astronomy club for any announcements they'd like to communicate, and one for newsletter editors, to share content, ask questions, etc. I have been president of the AANC for 4 years and I think it is a great astronomy resource. I first found out about the San Jose Astronomical Association, where and when they met from the AANC website, by the way. Gary Mitchell wrote: >The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave >North includes an AANC renewal letter. It's just a form >letter, there's no mention of SJAA's name, nor an expiration >date. (Not to put too fine of a point on it, but that by >itself strikes me as a bit, well, "amateurish.") > >Are we an AANC memeber? If so, should we renew? It doesn't >look like there were any checks made out to the AANC for >memberhsip last year about this time. It's $20 per year. >Hey, that's more than SJAA dues! Do they have a loaner >program? ;) > >The letter indicates there are some 30 astronomy clubs in >Northern CA. I wonder how many are AANC members (it didn't >say). > >Gary Mitchell >Treasurer > >P.S. The AANC (Astronomical Association of No. CA) calls >itself an umbrella organization for No. CA astronomy clubs. > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > -- Jane Houston Jones San Rafael, CA jane@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From north at znet.com Tue Jan 29 10:43:50 2002 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes References: <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> Message-ID: <3C56ED62.4E8F4582@znet.com> >>Mike wanted a report of about the number of members who have joined and left in the last month. But since membership list not kept by the Secretary but by Dave North, who is no longer a Board member, and Dave wasn't present we were unable to get that. It was suggested that we need a better system in this respect.<< Various reports (if simple) can be prepared ahead of time upon request. With respect to membership, the situation has been one of decline since early last year, and I don't know if that trend is over, but some recovery took place not long after Christmas (this is typical, for the obvious reasons). Since about this time last year, the total listings have declined from approximately 350 to just under 300, typically. Eight of those were unnecessary mailings to depleted addresses; the rest have been nonrenewals. Most of that happened in the period from about February through September; the decline since then has been very slight, with the aforementioned slight uptick in December/January (I think a net gain of two). I did take a moment to inspect the possible reasons, and came up with only one (very incomplete): a few of the folks moved away. However, this is normal and explains very little. On the other hand, maintaining this list is something of a pain in the keister, and a better system -- especially one that didn't involve me to handle the maintenance -- would be a Very Good Idea (I don't mind handling the Ephemeris mailing all that much, but especially since the Return Mail Requested thang started, mail pickup can sometimes take a half hour or more). I have pondered this one for a while, and thought about composing some kind of web-hosted database to maintain the records (perhaps eventually ending up on whiteoaks.com) but security issues and other complications have held me back on this one. Otherwise, transferring the list software to some ubiquitous windows-based db (it's currently on a Mac) is distasteful to me, but perhaps the best reasonable solution. Perhaps even better would be to settle on a comma-delimited format for the raw data, and have [whomever can do it] maintain same and circulate it. That way anyone wanting to draw forth any kind of report could do so, as long as the base information existed. I would be delighted to pursue either course, or any other method of transferring this problem to someone else. From the mailing-list point of view, all that is needed is the typical name, address, zip code. I have written a database converter that supplies me with the ADC (Area Distribution Center) numbers that are necessary to do bulk maillings now. This is a new "twist" as of five or so years ago that has made it almost impossible for the small mailer to issue their own bulk lists -- however, this situation has been in place for some years now, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone has issued a standard location for establishing those numbers on a small scale. It was, originally, a windfall for mailing houses. Of course, one option SJAA has is to contract with a mailing house, but the last time I checked a list this small costs about as much to administer as first class postage, which is much faster and easier. However, first class postage costs more than twice what we pay for junk mail privileges as a nonprofit. Cost per newsletter per year would currently run $4.08 per year, which we could afford for now. Printing tends to run a bit more. If there is anyone interested in taking over the list (and from the standpoint of the club, I consider this an exceptionally good idea, as there will come the time when I can no longer handle this function, and there is nobody else either capable or willing) I would certainly do everything I can to port the system to whatever method suits the board. I have been handling it for more years than I can remember now (since Lew was editor, which is ... how long?) and would dearly appreciate moving it on to someone else. >>Mike spoke to our insurance agent and was informed that we probably shouldn't be selling "electrical items" at the swap meet.<< I'm interested in the use of "selling." I'm not sure the insurance people understood that we are not "selling" anything at any swap meet, save for donations or club items that are being disposed. In other words, we make no representation, nor do we sell. I doubt the club is liable in this issue, and wonder if they understand the procedure clearly. On the other hand, the directors are indeed personally liable under certain circumstances, but an understanding of performing to reasonable responsibility is necessary. Dave From akkana at shallowsky.com Tue Jan 29 11:16:12 2002 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes In-Reply-To: <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> References: <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20020129191612.GB26898@shallowsky.com> Gary Mitchell writes: > Something just occurs to me...I should have thought of this > at the meeting: We can copy slides to slides, you know. I > don't have one, but I understand there are contraptions for > cameras made specifically to do this very thing. I have one of the handheld slide copiers: attach the camera (T-mount), put a slide in the holder, hold it up to the light and shoot. I picked it up at a Chabot auction but have never actually tried it, so I can't say how good the results are. (It probably takes some experimentation to find the right exposure to use for copying astro slides.) > Bill Arnett wrote: > > Mike spoke to our insurance agent and was informed that we probably > > shouldn't be selling "electrical items" at the swap meet. This > > uniquely American PITA will probably have to be dealt with by having a You mean, someone might electrocute themselves with a 9V clock drive? Most powered astro equipment these days is battery powered. The risk is far greater of getting your foot crushed by a falling counterweight. (No, I don't recommend mentioning that to an insurance agent.) Bill Arnett writes: [on slide copying] > That's not as easy as it seems if you want a good quality copy. You > need a special copy lens and a contraption to hold everything steady and > flat; not at all cheap. But more importantly, the result is just > another slide. It's much better to have it in digital form. That's arguable. Any speaker can use a slide projector, but in order to show a digital slide one must have a laptop (or be willing to lug a desktop) and have the technical acumen to know how to set it up to drive the digital projector (do we own a projector, or are we just lucky that Mike is able to borrow one?) I'm not saying not to scan the slides. Having digital copies sounds great, as an addition to the slides, not a replacement for them. As a member, I also think there would be plenty of members interested in borrowing a slide scanner if the board did decide to buy one and add it to the loaner program, even though it's not strictly astronomical. ...Akkana From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Tue Jan 29 15:52:31 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes In-Reply-To: <20020129191612.GB26898@shallowsky.com> References: <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129154816.00afc8b0@indigoskies.com> At 11:16 AM 1/29/02, Akkana wrote: >Bill Arnett writes: >[on slide copying] > > But more importantly, the result is just > > another slide. It's much better to have it in digital form. > >That's arguable. Any speaker can use a slide projector, but in order to >show a digital slide one must have a laptop ... I'm not sure that was Bill's point, but maybe it was. My (and perhaps Bill's) point is that if we have good digital scans made of the slide set, we can get fresh analog slides from them any time we want, and they will always be made from "pristine originals". It's a lot easier to keep/protect digital master copies of slides than emulsion. Mark From akkana at shallowsky.com Tue Jan 29 16:16:30 2002 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129154816.00afc8b0@indigoskies.com> References: <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129154816.00afc8b0@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <20020130001630.GI26898@shallowsky.com> Mark Taylor writes: > My (and perhaps Bill's) point is that if we have good digital scans made of > the slide set, we can get fresh analog slides from them any time we want, > and they will always be made from "pristine originals". Wow, really? I thought that was mega-expensive. Where does one go to do that? > It's a lot easier to keep/protect digital master copies of slides than > emulsion. I do agree with that. CDROMs don't degrade with each copy, and should last a long time. ...Akkana From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Tue Jan 29 20:21:16 2002 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Jan minutes In-Reply-To: <20020130001630.GI26898@shallowsky.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129154816.00afc8b0@indigoskies.com> <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <4516CB92-14A7-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <9F8A11F8-1485-11D6-B94A-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> <3C567EF5.1077@aenet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129154816.00afc8b0@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129201546.04702028@indigoskies.com> At 04:16 PM 1/29/2002, Akkana wrote: >Mark Taylor writes: > > My (and perhaps Bill's) point is that if we have good digital scans > made of > > the slide set, we can get fresh analog slides from them any time we want, > > and they will always be made from "pristine originals". > >Wow, really? I thought that was mega-expensive. Where does one go to >do that? A lot of print/lith/photo shops. I've seen $4/shot, and could probably beat that if I looked around. And for a totally cheap solution, and perhaps a better result than making slide copies with a t-ring contraption: Get a presentation projector, a good screen and tripod for one evening, and take 35mm slides of each digital slide in a nice, dark room. > > It's a lot easier to keep/protect digital master copies of slides than > > emulsion. > >I do agree with that. CDROMs don't degrade with each copy, and should >last a long time. Right... unlimited copies of the original, including, if we want, links to the whole set right on the club website. Mark From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jan 30 03:18:01 2002 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:14 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] AANC renewal References: <3C5676E3.1491@aenet.net> <3C56DFC5.8020403@whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <3C57D669.5C55@aenet.net> Jane Houston Jones wrote: > > Last year the annual letter went out in early February, and before that > I don't think there were letters sent out, which is one reason I > "volunteered" to do the membership solicitation job beginning last year. > Sorry it sounds amateurish, but I am an amateur astronomer! Well, I didn't mean so much the content, but the basic approach. Normally, an organization that wants a member to renew will include some kind of renewal form, at least with the member's name and expiration date. As I indicated, there was just the form letter. In fact, I was beginning to wonder if perhaps there *was* a renewal form that somehow got misplaced. As SJAA treasurer, whenever someone hands me only a check for renewal, I hand them a membership form and ask them to fill it out. Once in a while, a question comes up and it's very good to have some kind of paper trail to refer back to. In fact, I'm looking into a case right now where it looks like a member's S&T subscription didn't get made (by us) and it was a very good thing that I could go back and pull out his member form. In another reply, Morris Jones wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gary Mitchell wrote: > > > The last batch of stuff (renewals and such) I got from Dave > > North includes an AANC renewal letter. It's just a form > > letter, there's no mention of SJAA's name, nor an expiration > > date. (Not to put too fine of a point on it, but that by > > itself strikes me as a bit, well, "amateurish.") > > You couldn't possibly be a little more insulting to Jane could you? Now, that's just not fair! For one thing, if I had meant to insult someone personally, I assure you there'd be no doubt about it. I thought I had explained well enough, but obviously not. This was nothing personal, it's about the lack of information of our membership/renewal. For all I know, Jane merely wrote the letter long ago for use by whomever handles renewals. I'm in another club and arranged something just like that myself. In that case, it was a welcome-to-the-club letter for new members by the president--which the *secretary* handled. That president had nothing to do with the process, beyond writing the letter. In fact, it's a little surprising to learn that the AANC president is worrying about renewals in the first place. Isn't there someone else that can take care of those details? In case I'm still being unclear: IMO the member renewal process of the AANC could use a little polish, this isn't about Jane. Notice, I felt I needed to ask whether we were even a member, what does that say? Gary