From wsnelson at concentric.net Tue Jul 1 14:37:57 2003 From: wsnelson at concentric.net (wendy&steve) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] $15 CD on school star parties Message-ID: <01c34019$0bef5460$LocalHost@crc3.concentric.net> Board, this is an unofficial (not email vote) tally on if it will be OK to use some of our public star party $ on a neat CD I found from the Astronomical Society of Northern New England. They have a CD for educators that sets up classroom-star party coordination. It is authored by a National Teachers Award (sic) physics HS teacher in Maine and connects a star party to what a classroom teacher can do beforehand and afterward. Those like Bill and I, who are entering the teaching profession, know that "standards based" activities are much easier to sell to the education establishment. They also help coordinate learning activities. Although these are based on the Maine standards, they could be adapted for CA. What's your sense? (and then I'll risk my own $ on the order) Steven Nelson PS I also sent a message to the San Diego club director of their observatory site. I asked him to respond to the Board on his experiences with a site with pads and a large permanent telescope. From areopagus125 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 14:36:41 2003 From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] $15 CD on school star parties In-Reply-To: <01c34019$0bef5460$LocalHost@crc3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20030701213641.45334.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> For $15, I see no problem. From the description, I don't understand what it does, though. Is it a set of lesson plans? David Smith --- wendy&steve wrote: > Board, > > this is an unofficial (not email vote) tally on if > it will be OK to use > some > of our public star party $ on a neat CD I found from > the Astronomical > Society > of Northern New England. They have a CD for > educators that sets up > classroom-star party coordination. It is authored > by a National Teachers > Award (sic) physics HS teacher in Maine and connects > a star party to > what a classroom teacher can do beforehand and > afterward. > > Those like Bill and I, who are entering the > teaching profession, know > that "standards based" activities are much easier to > sell to the education > establishment. They also help coordinate learning > activities. Although > these are based on the Maine standards, they could > be adapted for CA. > > What's your sense? (and then I'll risk my own $ on > the order) > > Steven Nelson > > > PS I also sent a message to the San Diego club > director of their > observatory > site. I asked him to respond to the Board on his > experiences with a site > with pads and a large permanent telescope. > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From danac at pacbell.net Tue Jul 1 21:27:54 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] $15 CD on school star parties In-Reply-To: <20030701213641.45334.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> from "David Smith" at Jul 01, 2003 02:36:41 PM Message-ID: <200307020427.VAA01340@pacbell.net> > > For $15, I see no problem. From the description, I > don't understand what it does, though. Is it a set of > lesson plans? > > David Smith I'd agree with David - no problem at the price ($15? That's only about half the cost of a chinese-made Plossl!). Though I'm not sure what it does, either (Date-coordinated lesson plans? Lesson plans to explain what a star party is and explain what they saw ?) if you think it'd be useful, get it - as you've explained it, it directly relates to the star party mission. My tuppence worth, Dana Crom From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Wed Jul 2 10:22:07 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] CalStar meals and new Czar Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702101839.00ba5318@mail201.pair.com> I see in the minutes that Jim Bartolini is the new CalStar Czar. Thank you, I am happy to see it go to him. When I informed Mike Koop that I wanted to step away from doing the CalStar organizing, I mentioned that I would fulfill my commitment for this year. This includes the meal arrangements with Valley Catering. I am working on the meals at this time and will report to this list what I come up with, so the club can coordinate with the vendor. Meanwhile, if Mike of Jim need my assistance, I am able to help. Thanks, Mark Wagner From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 3 16:50:48 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar Message-ID: <3F04C158.572A@aenet.net> Hi guys, I've just received the order forms for the 2004 RASC (Royal Astronomical Society of Canada) Observer's Handbook and Calendar. Last year we ordered 25 handbooks and 15 calendars. We sold them all, but it went pretty slow toward the last (more so with the books). However, we ordered them a bit late. This year I'd like to have them well before January 2004--even before Christmas, (a good astro present). The year before (2002) we ordered 10 calendars and 30 Handbooks. We sold out on the calendars quickly, but not so with the Handbooks. What about this year? If we get them early enough--and if we mention it in the Ephemeris--I'm thinking maybe 25 Calendars and 30 Handbooks. Do we want any Beginner's Observing Guides this time? (Subtitle: An Introduction to the Night Sky for the Novice Stargazer.) It might be something good for our astro class. The price breaks are: Handbook: 5-9 $16.50 (ea), 10-24 $15, 25-99 $14.50 Calendar: 5-9 $12 (ea), 10-24 $8, 25-99 $7.50 Guide: 1-9 $14 (ea), 10-24 $13, 25-49 $12 (postage included) We've been selling the Handbooks for $15 and the calendars for $10. So, this isn't that much of a fund-raiser, more like a club service--especially on the Handbooks. They won't be available until September, so there's time, I just wanted to get us thinking about it early. I'll bring the info to the next meeting. Also you can check out their web page at http://www.rasc.ca. Gary From north at znet.com Thu Jul 3 16:55:47 2003 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar In-Reply-To: <3F04C158.572A@aenet.net> Message-ID: Gary: > However, we ordered them a bit late. This year I'd like to have them > well before January 2004--even before Christmas, (a good astro > present). I'd say order as soon as possible and get 25 of each calendar and handbook. The guide ain't worth it. Make that _at least_ 25 of the handbook. With reasonable advertising something on the order of 1/4 of the club should get them -- or more. That would be 60 minimum. So 25 seems very safe. d From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Thu Jul 3 17:50:01 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] CalStar Meals. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030703174022.022914b0@mail201.pair.com> Here is my suggestion for Valley Services to cater at CalStar: Vegetarian dinners: Friday: Vegetarian Lasagna, Mixed Vegetable, Fresh Fruit. Saturday: Rice, BBQ beans, Tossed green or sliced tomato salad. Non-Vegetarian dinners: Friday: Top Sirloin or chicken. Vegatarian Lasagne, Mixed vegatables, fresh fruit Saturday: Tri-Tip or Turkey breast, Rice, BBQ beans, Tossed green salad or sliced tomato salad I have used some of the the veggie selections in planning the non-veggie in order to make it easier on the caterer. If anyone sees a problem with this menu, or has any other questions, let me know by a week from today - July 10th. If I have no replies, I will contact Valley Services on the 17th to arrange the menu, after which we can get a contact and check out to them. Mark From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 3 23:49:57 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] CalStar Meals. References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030703174022.022914b0@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <3F052395.1CA6@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > > Here is my suggestion for Valley Services to cater at CalStar: > > Vegetarian dinners: > > Friday: Vegetarian Lasagna, Mixed Vegetable, Fresh Fruit. > Saturday: Rice, BBQ beans, Tossed green or sliced tomato salad. > > Non-Vegetarian dinners: > > Friday: Top Sirloin or chicken. Vegatarian Lasagne, Mixed vegatables, > fresh fruit > Saturday: Tri-Tip or Turkey breast, Rice, BBQ beans, Tossed green salad or > sliced tomato salad > > I have used some of the the veggie selections in planning the non-veggie in > order to make it easier on the caterer. > > If anyone sees a problem with this menu, or has any other questions, let me > know by a week from today - July 10th. If I have no replies, I will > contact Valley Services on the 17th to arrange the menu, after which we can > get a contact and check out to them. Get which check out to them? I've already sent them the $300 refundable deposit and $200 travel fee. (Neither of which have been cashed yet, by the way.) Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 4 00:03:18 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar References: Message-ID: <3F0526B6.4E1@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > > Gary: > > > However, we ordered them a bit late. This year I'd like to have them > > well before January 2004--even before Christmas, (a good astro > > present). > > I'd say order as soon as possible and get 25 of each calendar and > handbook. The guide ain't worth it. I've never seen the Beginners Guide. If we don't want to bother with it, that's fine with me. It just seems that RASC's other two items are so popular, maybe this might be good too. My experience is that it takes a few weeks. If we order in September, we'll have 'em in October. That should be plenty early enough. > Make that _at least_ 25 of the handbook. With reasonable advertising > something on the order of 1/4 of the club should get them -- or more. > That would be 60 minimum. So 25 seems very safe. If we can get 60 from the club and some from TAC too, maybe we could get the next price break (100). It won't be that much cheaper, but at these quantities it would add up. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 4 00:18:47 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030703172019.022914b0@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <3F052A57.740B@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > > Can folks on TAC piggyback the order? Sure, I don't see why not. The books won't be available until September anyway, so now would be a good time to get a head count. Or by "piggyback" did you mean collect specific orders? I guess we (i.e. 'I') could do that too, but it'd be a lot more paperwork. The only thing is I'd like them to be willing to show up to a meeting or Houge star party. If we have to mail out orders, that would be a significant complication, even if we charge for postage and handling. Do we want to look into that? Gary > At 7/3/2003, you wrote: > >Hi guys, > > > >I've just received the order forms for the 2004 RASC (Royal > >Astronomical Society of Canada) Observer's Handbook and Calendar. From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jul 4 02:15:22 2003 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar References: <3F0526B6.4E1@aenet.net> Message-ID: <3F0545AA.6ECD@svpal.org> [attribution confused:] > > Make that _at least_ 25 of the handbook. With reasonable advertising > > something on the order of 1/4 of the club should get them -- or more. > > That would be 60 minimum. So 25 seems very safe. I doubt that we have 60 active observers, the kind that would utilize the handbook. I don't use it myself, as I can compute planetary positions, sun and moon rise and set, etc. > If we can get 60 from the club and some from TAC too, maybe > we could get the next price break (100). It won't be that > much cheaper, EEK! With slow sales when we had 25, this seems excessive. I'm comfortable ordering for TAC. Would someone take some to TAC star parties? -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 4 18:29:06 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RASC books & calendar References: <3F0526B6.4E1@aenet.net> <3F0545AA.6ECD@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3F0629E2.6308@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > If we can get 60 from the club and some from TAC too, maybe > > we could get the next price break (100). It won't be that > > much cheaper, > > EEK! With slow sales when we had 25, this seems excessive. Quite true. However, that's without any advertising, not even a notice in the newsletter. If we advertised in the Ephemeris and TAC, that'd be a different story. 'How different' is the question. Gary From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Sat Jul 5 07:55:54 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] CalStar Meals. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030705075413.022914b0@mail201.pair.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: >I've already sent them the $300 refundable deposit and $200 travel fee. Okay... I was not aware the check had been sent. I'll proceed with working out the menu with them. Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030705/b20a2773/attachment.html From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed Jul 9 00:03:06 2003 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Got Houge Park Bathroom Key Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708234513.009f2650@koopm.best.vwh.net> Thanks to the efforts of Steve Houlihan, we now have the key to the bathroom at Houge Park. Steve is a new member, who joined at the last beginner's astronomy class. Before I started the class, I recommended that anyone who needed to use the bathroom do so since they would be closed by the janitors at sunset. It turns out Steve is a building inspector for the city and knows a few people in city hall. He told me after the meeting he would see what he could do. The point was emphasized when he personally had to leave early because the bathrooms were not available, along with about 3 other people that evening. Too bad, since that was one of the best nights we had at Houge Park in months with the Milky Way clearly visible! Two weeks later, Steve gave me the key at the ATM class when he picked up his loaner scope. Should we tell Ray Hildago that we have a key? I did call and talk to Ray twice after the June meeting. The key is not marked "Do Not Duplicate". Shall we make a copy and give one to Ray to keep good relations with him? I am thankful for Steve's efforts, but I am disappointed we could not go through Ray and have it look like we went around him. Mike From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed Jul 9 00:43:23 2003 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Coyote Public Star Party Dates Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709000313.034ab190@koopm.best.vwh.net> I spoke with the head ranger Chris Crockett and confirmed the following dates for Star Parties at Coyote Lake County Park: Sat, 7/19/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) Sat, 8/2/03 (1st Quarter Moon) Sat. 9/20/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) Great Public Mars Date! The rangers have tied these dates into their "Campfire Programs" and have invited the campfire attendees along with the general public to share telescope views with us between 8:00 PM and 10:30 PM. We will however be observing from the Lakeview Picnic Area which is located less than 1/4 mile from the Ranger Station/Visitor Center. The regular viewing area at the boat ramp won't work with the Campfire Program that currently in place. Last year this worked out very well. For those of you who have not been there, here is a good map: http://www.parkhere.org/scc/assets/docs/330208Coyote%20Lake%20map.pdf Website for Park: http://www.parkhere.org/channel/0,4770,chid%253D16486%2526sid%253D12761,00.html What Needs to be Done: JVN: Please add these dates to the SJAA Calendar Denny and James: Will we be having a Coyote-B-Que? Someone: I would like a major Ephemeris Article introducing our club to the wonderful facilities at Coyote. This should include directions, Astronomy Policy, pictures, and a map. Club member Joe Fragola just posted a nice report to TAC from there: http://observers.org/tac.mailing.list/2003/Jul/0164.html We should be promoting Coyote along with Coe and FP as our premier sites. This needs to be finished by Saturday since the Editors will be assembling the issue on Sunday. Once I hear from Denny or James on the BBQ Potluck details, I'll post an announcement to the SJAA Announce and TAC lists for support. Thanks. Mike From jvn at svpal.org Wed Jul 9 01:01:46 2003 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Got Houge Park Bathroom Key References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708234513.009f2650@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <3F0BCBEA.5DF6@svpal.org> Michael Koop wrote: > > Thanks to the efforts of Steve Houlihan, we now have the key to the > bathroom at Houge Park. [snip] > Shall we make a copy and give one to Ray to keep good relations with > him? NO -- not until you ask Steve. It may be fine, but it could also upset somebody in Ray or Steve's chain of command. If Steve says yes, do it. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From jturley at skyimagelab.com Wed Jul 9 08:06:01 2003 From: jturley at skyimagelab.com (James Turley - Sky Image Lab) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Coyote Public Star Party Dates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709000313.034ab190@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <003501c3462b$9c724b60$0300a8c0@bali> Great! Re CoyoteBQ, we need to ask the ranger to drag a few more picnic tables lakeside. Last time, there were only two. There are no convient grills...so we'll have to make plans for that. Other than frills and briquettes, last year we just asked everyone to bring a salad and grilling meat. We had tons of food left over. James Turley -- Sky Image Lab 20205 Saratoga Vista CT Saratoga, CA 95070 +1 (408) 741-5577 http://www.skyimagelab.com mailto:jturley@skyimagelab.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Koop [mailto:koopm@koopm.best.vwh.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:43 AM > To: sjaaboard@whiteoaks.com > Cc: amfden@msn.com; jturley@skyimagelab.com > Subject: Coyote Public Star Party Dates > > > I spoke with the head ranger Chris Crockett and confirmed the > following > dates for Star Parties at Coyote Lake County Park: > Sat, 7/19/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) > Sat, 8/2/03 (1st Quarter Moon) > Sat. 9/20/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) Great Public Mars Date! > > The rangers have tied these dates into their "Campfire > Programs" and have > invited the campfire attendees along with the general public to share > telescope views with us between 8:00 PM and 10:30 PM. We will > however be > observing from the Lakeview Picnic Area which is located less > than 1/4 mile > from the Ranger Station/Visitor Center. The regular viewing > area at the > boat ramp won't work with the Campfire Program that currently > in place. > Last year this worked out very well. > > For those of you who have not been there, here is a good map: > http://www.parkhere.org/scc/assets/docs/330> 208Coyote%20Lake%20map.pdf > Website for Park: > http://www.parkhere.org/channel/0,4770,chid%253D16486%2526sid% 253D12761,00.html What Needs to be Done: JVN: Please add these dates to the SJAA Calendar Denny and James: Will we be having a Coyote-B-Que? Someone: I would like a major Ephemeris Article introducing our club to the wonderful facilities at Coyote. This should include directions, Astronomy Policy, pictures, and a map. Club member Joe Fragola just posted a nice report to TAC from there: http://observers.org/tac.mailing.list/2003/Jul/0164.html We should be promoting Coyote along with Coe and FP as our premier sites. This needs to be finished by Saturday since the Editors will be assembling the issue on Sunday. Once I hear from Denny or James on the BBQ Potluck details, I'll post an announcement to the SJAA Announce and TAC lists for support. Thanks. Mike From amfden at msn.com Wed Jul 9 09:34:59 2003 From: amfden at msn.com (Denny Woolaghan) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Coyote Public Star Party Dates References: <003501c3462b$9c724b60$0300a8c0@bali> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for the help in sponsoring these events. Fortunately for me this year is very busy and I wouldn't have had the necessary time. Thanks again, Denny amfden@msn.com denny@americanmat.com ----- Original Message ----- From: James Turley - Sky Image Lab To: 'Michael Koop' ; sjaaboard@whiteoaks.com Cc: amfden@msn.com ; jturley@skyimagelab.com Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: RE: Coyote Public Star Party Dates Great! Re CoyoteBQ, we need to ask the ranger to drag a few more picnic tables lakeside. Last time, there were only two. There are no convient grills...so we'll have to make plans for that. Other than frills and briquettes, last year we just asked everyone to bring a salad and grilling meat. We had tons of food left over. James Turley -- Sky Image Lab 20205 Saratoga Vista CT Saratoga, CA 95070 +1 (408) 741-5577 http://www.skyimagelab.com mailto:jturley@skyimagelab.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Koop [mailto:koopm@koopm.best.vwh.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:43 AM > To: sjaaboard@whiteoaks.com > Cc: amfden@msn.com; jturley@skyimagelab.com > Subject: Coyote Public Star Party Dates > > > I spoke with the head ranger Chris Crockett and confirmed the > following > dates for Star Parties at Coyote Lake County Park: > Sat, 7/19/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) > Sat, 8/2/03 (1st Quarter Moon) > Sat. 9/20/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) Great Public Mars Date! > > The rangers have tied these dates into their "Campfire > Programs" and have > invited the campfire attendees along with the general public to share > telescope views with us between 8:00 PM and 10:30 PM. We will > however be > observing from the Lakeview Picnic Area which is located less > than 1/4 mile > from the Ranger Station/Visitor Center. The regular viewing > area at the > boat ramp won't work with the Campfire Program that currently > in place. > Last year this worked out very well. > > For those of you who have not been there, here is a good map: > http://www.parkhere.org/scc/assets/docs/330> 208Coyote%20Lake%20map.pdf > Website for Park: > http://www.parkhere.org/channel/0,4770,chid%253D16486%2526sid% 253D12761,00.html What Needs to be Done: JVN: Please add these dates to the SJAA Calendar Denny and James: Will we be having a Coyote-B-Que? Someone: I would like a major Ephemeris Article introducing our club to the wonderful facilities at Coyote. This should include directions, Astronomy Policy, pictures, and a map. Club member Joe Fragola just posted a nice report to TAC from there: http://observers.org/tac.mailing.list/2003/Jul/0164.html We should be promoting Coyote along with Coe and FP as our premier sites. This needs to be finished by Saturday since the Editors will be assembling the issue on Sunday. Once I hear from Denny or James on the BBQ Potluck details, I'll post an announcement to the SJAA Announce and TAC lists for support. Thanks. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030709/a17b6bba/attachment.html From jvn at svpal.org Wed Jul 9 16:30:09 2003 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Coyote Public Star Party Dates References: <003501c3462b$9c724b60$0300a8c0@bali> Message-ID: <3F0CA581.1A10@svpal.org> [snip] > > From: Michael Koop [mailto:koopm@koopm.best.vwh.net] [snip] > > I spoke with the head ranger Chris Crockett and confirmed the > > following dates for Star Parties at Coyote Lake County Park: > > Sat, 7/19/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) > > Sat, 8/2/03 (1st Quarter Moon) > > Sat. 9/20/03 (3rd Quarter Moon) Great Public Mars Date! [snip] > What Needs to be Done: > JVN: Please add these dates to the SJAA Calendar Done. I've updated the web pages for the hotline and also the complete 2003 list. I'll get at the telephone hotline soon, hopefully tonight. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From edanaila at yahoo.com Wed Jul 9 17:20:14 2003 From: edanaila at yahoo.com (Elena Danaila) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Got Houge Park Bathroom Key In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708234513.009f2650@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <20030710002014.86695.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Great news Mike! As far as going around Ray, sometimes you have to do what you have to do... Sounds like this key issue was becoming a major problem. Thank you and Steve for finally resolving it. I'm sure we'll all get to benefit. -Elena Michael Koop wrote: Thanks to the efforts of Steve Houlihan, we now have the key to the bathroom at Houge Park. Steve is a new member, who joined at the last beginner's astronomy class. Before I started the class, I recommended that anyone who needed to use the bathroom do so since they would be closed by the janitors at sunset. It turns out Steve is a building inspector for the city and knows a few people in city hall. He told me after the meeting he would see what he could do. The point was emphasized when he personally had to leave early because the bathrooms were not available, along with about 3 other people that evening. Too bad, since that was one of the best nights we had at Houge Park in months with the Milky Way clearly visible! Two weeks later, Steve gave me the key at the ATM class when he picked up his loaner scope. Should we tell Ray Hildago that we have a key? I did call and talk to Ray twice after the June meeting. The key is not marked "Do Not Duplicate". Shall we make a copy and give one to Ray to keep good relations with him? I am thankful for Steve's efforts, but I am disappointed we could not go through Ray and have it look like we went around him. Mike _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030709/db4b2ef4/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jul 9 23:12:14 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Got Houge Park Bathroom Key References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708234513.009f2650@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <3F0D03BE.2D7@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > Should we tell Ray Hildago that we have a key? I did call and talk to Ray > twice after the June meeting. The key is not marked "Do Not Duplicate". > Shall we make a copy and give one to Ray to keep good relations with him? I suggest making more than one copy, it'd be nice if we had more than one person with a key... and give one to Ray. > I am thankful for Steve's efforts, but I am disappointed we could not go > through Ray and have it look like we went around him. I wouldn't worry about that. This situation shouldn't have gone on as long as it has and desperately needed resolution. If Ray couldn't do it, then someone had to. Gary From danac at pacbell.net Sat Jul 12 12:09:39 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory Message-ID: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> At the last meeting, I suggested that discussion of building a SJAA observatory be moved into the mailing list, so we'd have some time to consider it before the next meeting. My apologies for not getting my own thoughts out earlier. >From last month's minutes - the choices listed were: 1) Build an observatory Pros * Start small, acquire land, build observing pads, warming hut, scope * Once the goal is set, we can work seriously on getting it done; this may include donations, wills, etc. Cons * May double club dues for insurance * Building is a lot of work; maintenance is even more 2) No observatory Pros * Fits better with current membership - most own scopes and want to use them * Keep using State parks and publicly accessible land, fits with educational charter * Put more money into other uses members can support - loaner scopes, travel, educational material, improvements to Houge park Cons * We don't set the rules at public places * Less prestige for the club For me, the real issue is: would an observatory be used by the club membership? Emotionally, I like the idea - a lot. But unless it has benefits for the majority of club members, it either won't happen or will be done in a half- hearted way (the worst of both worlds). What would I like in a club observatory? 1) Good skies - that will stay that way. The last thing we need is to expend time and effort buying a wonderful observing spot that's in the path of development. And if the skies aren't, on average, better than current favorite close-in spots like Coe, Coyote, or Fremont Peak, what's the point? Which leads to - 2) Accessibility - for me, this means no more than two hours drive from San Jose (for skies that, on average, match Coe or Fremont Peak on a "good" night). For better skies, I'd drive further - all the same, I suspect that "two hours" is a good rule of thumb unless we can get a permanent spot that has skies of Shingletown or Lake San Antonio quality. 3) Good horizons - in particular, to the south. Though trees on the property can be dealt with (would the Coe parking lot tree stay if we owned the lot?), trees and geologic features outside our control need to be considered. Though in aid of 1), I might accept a ridge to the east or west. 4) Decent facilities. Though in the long term a club observatory with a reasonably serious main scope would be nice (permanently mounted, good aperture, decent accessories, useful for both visual observation and CCD work), most of us *do* have our own scopes. So for the shorter term, let's try to equal or better Coyote Lake: hard observing pads, bathroom facilities with running water and flush toilets (this can be a well and a septic tank setup), on-site electricity (this also means the club will have a monthly electric bill to deal with), a warming hut/bunkroom, picnic/BBQ/?camping? area. Basically, if I'm going out on a 2+ hour drive, I'm (at the least) going to make a night of it (Coyote and Coe are at the limits of my in-and-out range. I won't try to drive back down from Fremont Peak after observing). So though I don't need luxury, being able to BBQ dinner, having a spot to grab a few hours of sleep without setting up a tent, and *not* have to deal with Port-A-Potties makes a really big difference in long-term use patterns. As last month's agenda noted, we can build up the facilities gradually - if we get a site that matches the first three criteria, we can build up the facilities gradually (though we still need a long-term plan). We can set interim goals along the way - site selection, site acquisition, observing pads, warming hut/bunkroom, observatory building and scope - so that it's easier to measure our progress. I'll also say that if we *can't* achieve these four goals, we're wasting our (and our members!) time and money. Except for the "facilities" and "control" issues, we're already pretty close to the rest at Coe, Coyote, and Fremont Peak - I don't think club members will contribute time and money for a longer drive with no-more-than equivalent skies and facilities. If we can't offer more, we *should* be redirecting our time and money into EVC Observatory (actually, I think we should have at least some level of involvement here, even if we do get our own site), the loaner program, and in-town star parties. So - are the goals I listed reasonable? Should there be other requirements added? How much will it cost to buy the land, add the facilities, and maintain them? Anyone want to comment? Dana Crom From north at znet.com Sat Jul 12 13:57:41 2003 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <7A4E80E2-B4AB-11D7-A0A9-000393836B64@znet.com> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Dana Crom wrote: > For me, the real issue is: would an observatory be used by the club > membership? In my opinion, not much. On the other hand, a nearby site with reasonably dark seeing might see use, particularly if it meant no longer being at the whim of whatever government nitpicker shows up. If you want to go far enough, you can always find something good. But even something Montebello-class without hassles would probably be used. On the other hand, for something nearly Montebello class that _does_ have hassles, see the PAS property. Just because something is okay at one time doesn't mean it will stay okay even if you own it. d From danac at pacbell.net Sat Jul 12 14:30:41 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <7A4E80E2-B4AB-11D7-A0A9-000393836B64@znet.com> from "Dave North" at Jul 12, 2003 01:57:41 PM Message-ID: <200307122130.OAA01496@pacbell.net> >from Dave North: > On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Dana Crom wrote: > > For me, the real issue is: would an observatory be used by the club > > membership? > > In my opinion, not much. On the other hand, a nearby site with > reasonably dark seeing might see use, particularly if it meant no > longer being at the whim of whatever government nitpicker shows up. > If you want to go far enough, you can always find something good. But > even something Montebello-class without hassles would probably be used. > On the other hand, for something nearly Montebello class that _does_ > have hassles, see the PAS property. > Just because something is okay at one time doesn't mean it will stay > okay even if you own it. Which is a big point: how hassle free is it? I, personally, would use a closer-in site if a) the skies were at least the equal of Coe or Coyote or b) the skies were not much worse, but access was faster/easier I can get to Coyote or Coe (from my house, in Almaden Valley) in under an hour, and neither one has a lot of hassles to deal with. (Coyote, in particular, is a real no-hassle site, most of the time. If I could stay overnight at the last minute (sleeping in my car would be OK) I'd consider it just about perfect as a close-in site. So something in the Montebello-Coe range, with decent access and at least a minimum level of on-site facilities, may be a good target, assuming we have reason to believe that the skies won't get markedly worse in the next 10-20 years. I'd say that if we *can't* match that with a close-in site, we shouldn't waste the time and money. And while I *would* use a further-out site with amenities, many might not. I think we need to answer these questions, probably with input from the membership, before putting together a proposal. Dana Crom From bill at nineplanets.org Sat Jul 12 14:44:30 2003 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <04BA5642-B4B2-11D7-96CA-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Dana Crom wrote: > ...For me, the real issue is: would an observatory be used by the club > membership? Build it and they will come :-) Seriously, I think the question should be re-phrased as what fraction of the membership would use it. A few members would no doubt find it attractive. And its existence would attract a few new members. Perhaps a survey of the membership is in order? But see below... > Emotionally, I like the idea - a lot. Me, too. That's why I built my own :-) > But unless it has benefits for the > majority of club members, it either won't happen or will be done in a > half- > hearted way (the worst of both worlds). Oh, I think it could easily be done by a much smaller fraction than that, if it had the support of the board and no serious opposition from the membership. > What would I like in a club observatory? > > 1) Good skies - that will stay that way... > 2) Accessibility - for me, this means no more than two hours drive > from San > Jose ... > 3) Good horizons - in particular, to the south... > 4) Decent facilities. 4 is easy enough. And 3 is probably not too hard. But 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive. If there was a better place than Coe and the Peak we would know about them. And they're not very good and getting worse. The city isn't going to lose population and the light levels aren't going down. If you want to do astronomy within 2 hours of San Jose you have to look at "the shallow sky" or use CCDs. Push it a little farther out to say, Chew's Ridge and we might find a place that would be good for a decade or two. But the only really dark place within two hours of here is to the west :-( > ...I'll also say that if we *can't* achieve these four goals, we're > wasting > our (and our members!) time and money. Yup. My recommendation would be to first try to find a suitable site. Failing that the rest is moot. > If we can't offer more, we *should* be redirecting our time and money > into > EVC Observatory (actually, I think we should have at least some level > of > involvement here, even if we do get our own site), the loaner program, > and in-town star parties. Yup. > So - are the goals I listed reasonable? Yes. I don't think they're achievable. But I would love to be proven wrong. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Sat Jul 12 14:51:57 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <04BA5642-B4B2-11D7-96CA-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> References: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030712145002.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> At 7/12/2003, Bill Arnett wrote: >Oh, I think it could easily be done by a much smaller fraction than that, >if it had the support of the board and no serious opposition from the >membership. I agree, Bill. It is a small percentage of the club that actually gets out of their backyards to observe, I would wager. But, those that do would certainly find a place to go, either to set up their own telescopes on a piece of land, or to use some on-site facilities. Mark From danac at pacbell.net Sat Jul 12 15:08:05 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:20 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030712145002.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> from "Mark Wagner" at Jul 12, 2003 02:51:57 PM Message-ID: <200307122208.PAA01608@pacbell.net> > > At 7/12/2003, Bill Arnett wrote: > > >Oh, I think it could easily be done by a much smaller fraction than that, > >if it had the support of the board and no serious opposition from the > >membership. > > I agree, Bill. It is a small percentage of the club that actually gets out > of their backyards to observe, I would wager. But, those that do would > certainly find a place to go, either to set up their own telescopes on a > piece of land, or to use some on-site facilities. > > Mark Yup - and I think I said that if the skies are "reasonable" (to me this means Mag 5.5 or so) and it was convenient, I'd go for it. A close-in site not much better than my back yard, but with good sightlines and no visible light sources, would be appealing enough I'd probably use it a couple of times a month. What concerns me is that anything close-in is likely to be both expensive and have poor skies. And good skies/cheap are a ways out. A thought that comes to mind is buy a plot reasonably close in, put in pads and electricity, and plan to sell it (at a profit, we hope) when development degrades the sky beyond an acceptable level. Workable? Dana Crom From RNAPO at znet.com Sat Jul 12 15:12:47 2003 From: RNAPO at znet.com (Rich N.) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory Message-ID: <001501c348c2$ba7e4ac0$9352a7cf@pavilion> Part of having an observatory is protecting it. Will someone live on site? This is one benefit of an observatory associated with a park, school, etc. Rich From danac at pacbell.net Sat Jul 12 15:22:53 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <001501c348c2$ba7e4ac0$9352a7cf@pavilion> from "Rich N." at Jul 12, 2003 03:12:47 PM Message-ID: <200307122222.PAA01664@pacbell.net> > > Part of having an observatory is protecting it. Will someone > live on site? This is one benefit of an observatory associated > with a park, school, etc. > > Rich Another good point - file this under "maintenance", I think. Once you get beyond a field with observing pads this becomes much more of an issue - how to deal with the problems of vandals, thieves, and teenage partygoers. One of the reasons I enjoy observing at Coe or Coyote is that I feel (rightly or wrongly) a lot safer alone at night than I would at many other locations. From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 13 00:51:21 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory References: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3F110F79.56F8@aenet.net> Dana Crom wrote: > > What would I like in a club observatory? > > 1) Good skies - that will stay that way. This could be a real challenge over the long haul. > 2) Accessibility - for me, this means no more than two hours drive from San > Jose (for skies that, on average, match Coe or Fremont Peak on a "good" Even more of a challenge. > 4) Decent facilities. > So for the shorter term, let's try to equal or better Coyote Lake: hard > observing pads, bathroom facilities with running water and flush toilets > (this can be a well and a septic tank setup), on-site electricity (this > also means the club will have a monthly electric bill to deal with), > a warming hut/bunkroom, picnic/BBQ/?camping? area. > > Basically, if I'm going out on a 2+ hour drive, I'm (at the least) going > to make a night of it (Coyote and Coe are at the limits of my in-and-out > range. I won't try to drive back down from Fremont Peak after observing). > So though I don't need luxury, being able to BBQ dinner, having a spot to > grab a few hours of sleep without setting up a tent, and *not* have to > deal with Port-A-Potties makes a really big difference in long-term > use patterns. All of this sounds great, but it isn't realistic for us. For a SJAA owned observatory site, you *are* talking about luxury here. Running water, flush toilets, PG&E supplied electricity, etc. is, IMO, way beyond our ability... not to mention maintenance. The kind of site we want will by definitione be remote. This means electricity from PG&E will probably not even be available. To have poles put in would be prohibitive (for us). Batteries and solar cells are expensive too, but would be far cheaper. If SJAA were ten times bigger and had ten times the revenue, then we could consider something like this. But even then it would be a struggle. With our current revenue stream, I'd say we'd be doing well to have a dirt road leading to a small piece of land with a pad. At some point we could probably put in a small outhouse. > As last month's agenda noted, we can build up the facilities gradually - Define 'gradually'. Over the couple of years that I've been treasurer, our total bank accounts have stayed more or less the same. That's an important fact. For something like you're describing, we'd need a major grant, fantastic fund raising, or something real creative. > So - are the goals I listed reasonable? As far as the 'decent facilities' go, not in my opinion--at least not as SJAA currently exists. If we had members who are contractors or whatever and volunteered their time and effort, that would be very significant. But we'd need to get creative along those lines. > Should there be other requirements > added? How much will it cost to buy the land, Remote but moderately accessable mountainous land would probably start at $1000 to $2000 per acre minimum. There might be electricity within a few miles, but last time I heard, each pole would cost $1000. A well could be drilled for water, but depending on the area, that could be expensive (I don't know how much). And a well could be a maintenance problem too. The spot we want (and what's available) might not have a road leading to it. Depending on how far we'd have to go, it could cost thousands just to have a tractor scrape out a basic dirt road. My dad used to buy and sell recreational mountain land in the mountains south east of Livermore, off of Mines road, (you can eventually get there by going over Mt Hamilton, passing by Lick, but it's easier and quicker to go via Livermore). It's fairly remote, but within two hours drive or so. Something back in there might be a possibility. However, it can get warm during the summer and it snows in the winter. On the bright side, people had wells dug in the area with good results. And some areas have electricity not too far away. Another possibility would be somewhere in the Santa Cruz mountains. The weather would be more moderate, but there'd be a greater chance of fog. The only major sources of light would be San Jose and some from Santa Cruz. The western and southern sky would be very dark--weather permitting. The few small communities in the area probably wouldn't be too bad. And it's fairly close to San Jose. There are some hills north of Livermore and east of Pleasington, but that general area is growing. So, I wouldn't recommend looking there. The only other places I can think of within two hours of San Jose would be the Mt. Hamilton range south east of San Jose, (the general Henry Coe & Fremont Peak area). However, with Gilroy and surounding communities expanding, that area is less attractive now than it was even just ten years ago. One other thing... land in remote areas generally comes in 5 acre lots, minimum. If someone has some land where we want, it's possible we could work out some kind of deal and he might slice off an acre or two. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 13 00:44:09 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory References: <200307122208.PAA01608@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3F110DC9.1B72@aenet.net> Dana Crom wrote: > A thought that comes to mind is buy a plot reasonably close in, put in > pads and electricity, and plan to sell it (at a profit, we hope) when > development degrades the sky beyond an acceptable level. Workable? One good thing about land is it holds its value. And if you make improvements, you can sell it for a nice profit. Gary From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Sun Jul 13 07:47:09 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <3F110F79.56F8@aenet.net> References: <200307121909.MAA01266@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030713073515.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> At 7/13/2003, you wrote: >All of this sounds great, but it isn't realistic for us. > >For a SJAA owned observatory site, you *are* talking about luxury >here. Running water, flush toilets, PG&E supplied electricity, etc. is, >IMO, way beyond our ability... not to mention maintenance. Perhaps it would be a good idea to study what OCA and SDAA have done for club-owned remote observing sites? Maybe the club really does not need all the bells and whistles - but just a good place for folks to go and set up their scopes. When I go observing at places like Fiddletown, I take everything I need - there's no power, toilets, etc. >The only other places I can think of within two hours of San >Jose would be the Mt. Hamilton range south east of San Jose, >(the general Henry Coe & Fremont Peak area). However, with >Gilroy and surounding communities expanding, that area is >less attractive now than it was even just ten years ago. > >One other thing... land in remote areas generally comes in >5 acre lots, minimum. If someone has some land where we want, >it's possible we could work out some kind of deal and he >might slice off an acre or two. While I agree something relatively close is attractive, the fact is there are plenty of observing sites within an hour drive of most club members. Coe, FPeak, Montebello, Grant, Lake Sonoma to our north, folks are even going up Mt. Madonna, to Coyote, etc. We're not really lacking in local possibilities. Why not consider a "dark" site within about 3 hours drive? Fiddletown is a piece of private property. So is Michelle Stone's Plettstone location. I think this is more in line with what OCA and SDAA have - pieces of land out away from the city. Mark From bill at nineplanets.org Sun Jul 13 11:07:17 2003 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <3F110DC9.1B72@aenet.net> Message-ID: On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 12:44 AM, Gary Mitchell wrote: > Dana Crom wrote: > >> A thought that comes to mind is buy a plot reasonably close in, put in >> pads and electricity, and plan to sell it (at a profit, we hope) when >> development degrades the sky beyond an acceptable level. Workable? > > One good thing about land is it holds its value. And if > you make improvements, you can sell it for a nice profit. Maybe. No investment is a sure thing. And real estate in this area looks especially inflated right now to me. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W From danac at pacbell.net Sun Jul 13 15:03:40 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030713073515.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> from "Mark Wagner" at Jul 13, 2003 07:47:09 AM Message-ID: <200307132203.PAA01253@pacbell.net> > At 7/13/2003, Mark Wagner wrote: > > >All of this sounds great, but it isn't realistic for us. > > > >For a SJAA owned observatory site, you *are* talking about luxury > >here. Running water, flush toilets, PG&E supplied electricity, etc. is, > >IMO, way beyond our ability... not to mention maintenance. > > Perhaps it would be a good idea to study what OCA and SDAA have done for > club-owned remote observing sites? Maybe the club really does not need all > the bells and whistles - but just a good place for folks to go and set up > their scopes. When I go observing at places like Fiddletown, I take > everything I need - there's no power, toilets, etc. I could live without most of the bells and whistles if 1) The observing site is no harder to reach than any other place with equivalent skies. 2) It has significant advantages these other sites lack (guaranteed access, non-muddy setup area (how much does a load of gravel cost?), OK to sleep overnight, no access for teenagers looking for a makeout spot . . . > >The only other places I can think of within two hours of San > >Jose would be the Mt. Hamilton range south east of San Jose, > >(the general Henry Coe & Fremont Peak area). However, with > >Gilroy and surounding communities expanding, that area is > >less attractive now than it was even just ten years ago. > > > >One other thing... land in remote areas generally comes in > >5 acre lots, minimum. If someone has some land where we want, > >it's possible we could work out some kind of deal and he > >might slice off an acre or two. > > While I agree something relatively close is attractive, the fact is there > are plenty of observing sites within an hour drive of most club > members. Coe, FPeak, Montebello, Grant, Lake Sonoma to our north, folks > are even going up Mt. Madonna, to Coyote, etc. We're not really lacking > in local possibilities. Why not consider a "dark" site within about 3 > hours drive? Fiddletown is a piece of private property. So is Michelle > Stone's Plettstone location. I think this is more in line with what OCA > and SDAA have - pieces of land out away from the city. At last night's SJAA meeting Rob Hawley made a couple of useful suggestions: 1) It isn't necessary to OWN the land - a long-term lease or shared-use agreement would probably cost less, and would allow us an easy exit if the skies degraded over time. 2) He mentioned the Pinoche Valley area SE of Hollister as being a good candidate - relatively easy access, good skies in most directions, and having a little-used ?airport? ?glider port? that would be a perfect setup spot, much like the Shingletown airport. Not having visited the area yet, I don't know any more, or who to contact, but the area, even if we can't get a shared-use agreement for the airstrip, sounds promising (and probably within 2-2.5 hours range of SJ, for non rush hour driving conditions). If the majority of the club is willing to go this way - get an unimproved site that offers good skies (and takes less time than LSA), buy or lease it, then do no more improvements than needed for access and maybe observing pads, I'll have to reverse my earlier thoughts - it IS do-able. I think a good part of the issue is we've got hung up on the word "observatory" - but club observatories became popular at a time when the average scope size was 6 inches and 8 inches was "big" - it gave people unable to afford or transport a big scope a chance to use one, it served as a facility for longer-term observing projects, and it was a center for public outreach. These days, "big" scopes are quite affordable - when I set up at Coe or Coyote, my 12.5" Dob is usually in low-middle end of the size range. And we have an embarassing richness of medium-good close observing sites - Henry Coe, Coyote Lake, Fremont Peak, Pacheco Pass, Montabello, etc. For those who haven't the money (yet) or aren't certain of their interest level, we have an extremely healthy loaner scope program. It works - it wasn't until I'd had a chance to use the club's 14" Dob for a while that I placed the order for my 12.5". The new EVC observatory should answer the need for a fixed base for observing projects quite nicely - per Jeffrey, they are actively soliciting club members to come up with research projects using their facilities. SJAA members using the EVC equipment looks like a win/win scenario. Over years, as I understand it, SJAA has given judicious grants to a number of other local astro projects (Fremont Peak Observatory, frex) - though we don't control any of them, we've helped keep them alive, and I think we can and should help the EVC observatory in the same way (in this case, the most valuable contributions may be time and involvement, rather than money). Finally, between the school star party program (huge thanks to JVN for the time and care he puts into it) and the regular Houge Park public sessions I think we're doing far more public outreach than most clubs manage. The one piece of the puzzle that I don't think we have in place - yet - is a good club-accessible dark sky site. If we're willing to give up, at least initially, niceties such as onsite buildings and electricity (though I think we would be well advised to contract for a portapotty - how much would it cost to have one installed and and serviced prior to new-moon weekends?) it looks like we probably *can* afford this, especially if those of us who are most interested are willing to kick something, say the cost of a decent eyepiece, into the kitty. So the question I have is - what is the interest level? Dana Crom -- ------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Dana Crom / "Malt does more than Milton can danac@pacbell.net / To justify God's ways to man" A. E. Housman San Jose, California / "Doubtless due to a wider audience" DLC From jkirkbride at SFKMinistry.org Sun Jul 13 15:50:20 2003 From: jkirkbride at SFKMinistry.org (Jeffrey Kirkbride) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307132203.PAA01253@pacbell.net> Message-ID: I agree with Dana that SJAA is indeed ?doing far more public outreach than most clubs manage.? And that is why I approached SJAA back in 1999 for ideas. I enjoyed being with all of you last night. Thanks for the complimentary membership. After all this time, I?m now officially a member of SJAA! Jeffrey >On 7/13/03 3:03 PM, "Dana Crom" wrote: > Finally, between the school star party program (huge thanks to JVN for the > time and care he puts into it) and the regular Houge Park public sessions I > think we're doing far more public outreach than most clubs manage. > >> Dana Crom On 7/13/03 3:03 PM, "Dana Crom" wrote: > > The new EVC observatory should answer the need for a fixed base for > observing projects quite nicely - per Jeffrey, they are actively soliciting > club members to come up with research projects using their facilities. SJAA > members using the EVC equipment looks like a win/win scenario. I think we can > and should help the EVC observatory in the same way (in this case, the most > valuable contributions may be time and involvement, rather than money). > > Finally, between the school star party program (huge thanks to JVN for the > time and care he puts into it) and the regular Houge Park public sessions I > think we're doing far more public outreach than most clubs manage. > >> Dana Crom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030713/b5cb3096/attachment.html From jane at whiteoaks.com Sun Jul 13 18:15:01 2003 From: jane at whiteoaks.com (Jane Houston Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Calstar blurb Message-ID: <3F120415.70208@whiteoaks.com> Does anyone want a Calstar article in the Ephemeris for August? If so, please write one before 8:00 p.m. Thanks. Otherwise, it can go in September. - Jane Houston Jones San Rafael, CA jane@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun Jul 13 18:24:39 2003 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307132203.PAA01253@pacbell.net> Message-ID: As I mentioned last night I am quite interested in the idea of a club controlled "observing site". Dana pretty well summarized much of what I told him. Here are some other points I have been considering. We have some convenient, but not ideal sites within 1 hour of San Jose (Coe, Coyote, Pacheco SP). We have an excellent site that is a 3-hour drive and easy overnight, but not completely access controlled (LSA). I have tended not to use Fremont Peak due to the hassle of observing there, the distance, and the road. I have not yet visited Fiddletown or Plettstone. Both are about as far away as LSA and have similar skies. LSA does provide limited services (porta potties and seasonal water). I am personally interested in the project for use on dark sky nights where I am willing to travel farther than the local parks. My goal is to set up my own scope(s) and not to visit an existing observatory. As Dana said any site needs to have an advantage over these (such as better seeing, access control, or less susceptibility to marine layer). In my mind about a 2-hour drive is the cut off between committing to spend the night and planning a return. Do others have a similar cutoff? In my mind a site that was within the 2 hour window would be much more interesting than a site further away. At 3 hours you have reached some of the existing good sites (e.g. LSA). The argument for a new site at that point would have to be far more compelling. I don't really think building full service observatory like FPOA should be the club's first priority. We should use club funds to support existing observatories. A rented porta potty (or "warming hut") and maybe gravel to manage dust should be the only improvements the club should initially be thinking about. I have some ideas of places to look, but that is a detail until we settle on the goals of the project. Rob Hawley From jane at whiteoaks.com Sun Jul 13 18:42:29 2003 From: jane at whiteoaks.com (Jane Houston Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Calstar and Coyote blurbs References: <3F120415.70208@whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <3F120A85.4080801@whiteoaks.com> I wrote these in lieu of not having articles submitted for the August Ephemeris.... Jane Calstar 2003 (plus the image from the website) This years Calstar, hosted by the SJAA takes place September 25, 26, 27 2003 at Lake San Antonio. You can get all the information you need on the Calstar website: http://www201.pair.com/resource/calstar/ Basically, it is your end of the season star party. No speakers, no prizes, nothing but astronomy and friends. Lake San Antonio is halfway between Los Angeles and the San Francisco bay area. $32.00 per vehicle for the three nights, $16. 00 for an optional stay on Sunday night. Campsites, RV sites with full hookup, and even some rental cabins are available in the park. Coyote Park SJAA star parties at Coyote Park Announcing a new star party hosted by the SJAA! The first three dates are July 19, August 2 and September 20. The Coyote Park rangers have tied these dates into their "Campfire Programs" and have invited the campfire attendees along with the general public to share telescope views with us between 8:00 PM and 10:30 PM. We will however be observing from the Lakeview Picnic Area which is located less than 1/4 mile from the Ranger Station/Visitor Center. The regular viewing area at the boat ramp won't work with the Campfire Program that currently in place. Last year this worked out very well. Directions: http://www.parkhere.org/scc/assets/docs/330208Coyote%20Lake%20map.pdf Website: http://www.parkhere.org/channel/0,4770,chid%253D16486%2526sid%253D12761,00.html -- Jane Houston Jones San Rafael, CA jane@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From mojo at whiteoaks.com Sun Jul 13 22:58:27 2003 From: mojo at whiteoaks.com (Morris Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris available for proofing Message-ID: I'm going to deliver the August Ephemeris to Accuprint Monday afternoon, so if you have the opportunity to take a look at it and correct any greivous errors, I would appreciate it. :) http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0308/EphAug03.pdf Mojo -- Morris Jones <*> San Rafael, CA mojo@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From danac at pacbell.net Sun Jul 13 23:15:20 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris available for proofing In-Reply-To: from "Morris Jones" at Jul 13, 2003 10:58:27 PM Message-ID: <200307140615.XAA01855@pacbell.net> > > I'm going to deliver the August Ephemeris to Accuprint Monday afternoon, > so if you have the opportunity to take a look at it and correct any > greivous errors, I would appreciate it. :) > > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0308/EphAug03.pdf > > Mojo I may not have looked hard enough, but I didn't see any grievous errors ;-) Dana -- ------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Dana Crom / "Malt does more than Milton can danac@pacbell.net / To justify God's ways to man" A. E. Housman San Jose, California / "Doubtless due to a wider audience" DLC From edanaila at yahoo.com Sun Jul 13 23:12:37 2003 From: edanaila at yahoo.com (Elena Danaila) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Calstar and Coyote blurbs In-Reply-To: <3F120A85.4080801@whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <20030714061237.61137.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jane, I just saw your message about the Coyote park star party. Last night at the Board meeting Mike had asked me to write a little something for this month, but I'm afraid I might be too late now that I saw the deadline was 8:00 p.m. You know, the what, where, when thing, but I actually didn't know exactly when until I saw your post. Anyway, here's what I've got and if you can still weave anything in with what you wrote, that will be fine, if not, you did a great job. I'll try to beat the deadline next time. Here it is: We’re rapidly approaching Mars’ closest opposition to Earth since the year 57,537 B.C. On July 19th 2003, between 8:00 and 10:30 p.m. Coyote Park will be hosting the first of a series of public star parties dedicated to Mars viewing. The following star party dates are August 2nd and September 20th. Due to its proximity to San Jose, Coyote park is the one of the best summer observing sites in the area. SJAA is happy to have the opportunity to support the Park Rangers in their public program efforts by setting up our telescopes and sharing views with all those present during these dedicated public observing nights. Coyote park is an ideal recreation area at the foothills of the Mount Hamilton Range and offers beautiful lake shore hikes, boating and barbecue pits, picnic tables and year round campsites. To reach the park, take Highway 101 to Gilroy; take the Leavesley Road exit; follow Leavesley Road east 1.75 miles to New Avenue; turn left onto New Avenue and proceed north for .6 miles to Roop Road. Turn right onto Roop Road, which eventually turns into Gilroy Hot Springs Road. The park entrance is approximately 3 miles from New Avenue. Turn left onto Coyote Reservoir Road, the park visitor center/ranger station is about one mile from Roop Road. The park office phone number is (408) 842-7800. For a map of the Coyote Park area go to: http://www.parkhere.org/scc/assets/docs/330208Coyote%20Lake%20map.pdf --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030713/d57cee9e/attachment.html From mojo at whiteoaks.com Mon Jul 14 00:32:33 2003 From: mojo at whiteoaks.com (Morris Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris available for proofing In-Reply-To: <200307140615.XAA01855@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Dana Crom wrote: > > greivous errors, I would appreciate it. :) > > I may not have looked hard enough, but I didn't see any grievous errors ;-) Luckily I didn't use the word "grievous" in the document. :) Mojo "Neither financier seized the opportunity for weird leisure." -- Morris Jones <*> San Rafael, CA mojo@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Mon Jul 14 09:44:40 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307132203.PAA01253@pacbell.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030713073515.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030714093102.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> At 7/13/2003, you wrote: >I think a good part of the issue is we've got hung up on the word >"observatory" - I agree. The observing pads I put in my backyard constitute an observatory. Webster's Dictionary definition: 1 : a building or place given over to or equipped for observation of natural phenomena (as in astronomy); also : an institution whose primary purpose is making such observations Something as simple as a piece of land used for setting up and using telescopes constitutes an observatory. Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20030714/399e342a/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jul 14 18:29:21 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030713073515.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030714093102.00b9bf70@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <3F1358F1.52B7@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > > Something as simple as a piece of land used for setting up and using > telescopes constitutes an observatory. > > Mark Our observatory fund might already have enough to buy a remote acre of land for an "observatory" like that. All we need to do is find a suitable spot that's for sale, or where the owner could be talked into selling. Also, if we greenbelt it, the property taxes would be almost nothing. Gary From danac at pacbell.net Mon Jul 14 22:44:34 2003 From: danac at pacbell.net (Dana Crom) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <3F1358F1.52B7@aenet.net> from "Gary Mitchell" at Jul 14, 2003 06:29:21 PM Message-ID: <200307150544.WAA01759@pacbell.net> > > Mark Wagner wrote: > > > > Something as simple as a piece of land used for setting up and using > > telescopes constitutes an observatory. > > > > Mark > > Our observatory fund might already have enough to buy a > remote acre of land for an "observatory" like that. All > we need to do is find a suitable spot that's for sale, or > where the owner could be talked into selling. Also, if we > greenbelt it, the property taxes would be almost nothing. > > Gary Interesting points - and as long as we are allowed minimal improvements like pads and portapotties, greenbelting wouldn't really affect our use of the land. Dana -- ------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Dana Crom / "Malt does more than Milton can danac@pacbell.net / To justify God's ways to man" A. E. Housman San Jose, California / "Doubtless due to a wider audience" DLC From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Mon Jul 14 22:51:02 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts about an SJAA observatory In-Reply-To: <200307150544.WAA01759@pacbell.net> References: <3F1358F1.52B7@aenet.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030714224218.00b95c88@mail201.pair.com> At 7/14/2003, you wrote: >Interesting points - and as long as we are allowed minimal improvements >like pads and portapotties, greenbelting wouldn't really affect our use >of the land. If the SJAA were interested in pursuing a piece of land, the club would pick up new members, comprised of folks in not only the San Jose and greater bay area, but also thoughout the mid-central valley - observers that would like to use a dark site. I also suspect you would find a core group that would help with improvements, such as gravel on a road, grading if needed, and simply keeping an eye on the place and keeping it cleaned up. Fiddletown is Bob Kestner's property. Maybe JVN knows who Kestern is, but the observatory on his land in non-functional, it really only houses some folks telescopes - it is more the piece of land that draws serious deep sky observers. All that is there are a few picnic benches, an outhouse that looks like it is authentic '49er era gold rush - I've never tried using it - and a BBQ. That's honestly all that is needed. But a good porta-pottie would be nice. Anyway, there are folks in the Sacramento and surrounding area that have said they are willing to put in $$ to keep the road up (dir road with some gravel). I expect you'd find the same type of involvement with a similar setup for the SJAA. Michelle Stone has a good piece of property for sale. She has a house and observatory near Mariposa. It is 2:45 drive to get there, but the skies are hands-down gorgous compared to anything available around here. And Yosemite is maybe an hour up 140 from there. Shoot - there's even an astronomy friendly neighbor to keep an eye on things! Just some thoughts. Mark From wsnelson at concentric.net Tue Jul 15 10:48:48 2003 From: wsnelson at concentric.net (wendy&steve) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Corp. goals at 50 years ? (Observ"a story") Message-ID: <01c34af9$6ab70fc0$fe79ee42@crc3.concentric.net> I think part of our exercise is to figure out the 'story' for our organization for the start of the next 50 years. As a 503-a non-profit a large part of our goal has been public education. We have excelled at this. Some astronomy non-profits are set up as mutual benefit non-profits. I think Stonyridge(?) above LA is a good example, exclusive, >$10,000 to join and a permanent 24"(?). The San Diego Astronomical Association (SDAA) is a different modern observatory example and LAAS did a similar corporate model about 25 years ago (Lockwood Valley site). Both these clubs (and Orange County) are >500 and bought property and started major development projects lasting decades. They have several different classes of membership to help offset the dollar differences in services to members. Locally the PAS has no membership distinction but their board drastically limits new members from using their observatory telescopes. They also have a major "light trespass" problem that has been going on for 5 years. A permanent observatory instrument (owned), permanent site (owned) are wonderful but I think should not be on our corporate goals. I would vote against such an emphasis if it was in the SDAA or LAAS or PAS mold. I think this club has shown its excellence at public outreach. I would like to see us, as the governing board, think about some program support that would build on THIS excellence! [ Mike and JVN comments at last Board meeting] Dana has suggested a "member dark-sky observing base" idea that I could really support=> Lease a portion of a remote developed site. His location idea sounded good, the distance and sky reasonable, a minimum of capital development. It could be a 'done deal' in less than a year! The 'rural airport' type of site is similar to SVO and Bonny Dune airport type of situations. "Observatory" discussion so far ($$$$$ to 0) $$$$$ Owned property, utilities, permanent telescope, clubhouse, pads. $$$$ Owned property, permanent telescope, outhouse, pads $$$ Owned property, outhouse, pads $ Leased dark site access 0 Public use sites as now PS Based on SJAA history I do not think there are the volunteer resources to support a major observatory site. There does not seem to be $$$$ resources either. If we had a Jeffrey-clone to do fund raising and development it might be possible over 3-4 years. But how would you fund a 'private use' facility? Ken Lum of the PAS tried for several years in the '90s to get donated $ and member volunteer hours for a major telescope rebuild. He found: there is 'about 0% chance' of foundation or donor support for private-use observatories. From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Tue Jul 15 18:37:57 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Corp. goals at 50 years ? (Observ"a story") In-Reply-To: <01c34af9$6ab70fc0$fe79ee42@crc3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030715183725.00b95c88@mail201.pair.com> At 7/15/2003, you wrote: > The 'rural airport' type of site is similar to SVO Sorry, but what is SVO? From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 15 21:59:14 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Corp. goals at 50 years ? (Observ"a story") References: <01c34af9$6ab70fc0$fe79ee42@crc3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3F14DBA2.77A0@aenet.net> wendy&steve wrote: > But how would you fund a 'private use' facility? I don't remember anyone saying anything about this being a private use facility. The goal isn't to keep out any other astronomers (SJAA members or not). We've had a SJAA observatory on our wish list for many years. Our observatory fund is currently a little under three grand, that should be enough to get some property. (It used to be more, but some was donated to Fremont Peak after their storm damage and we haven't been putting more money into the fund in recent years). Even if we don't put in a permanent telescope (which at some point we eventually want to do), an unimproved SJAA owned site still has advantages over a public park. Hopefully it will be at a darker place and we'd have a lot more control over local lights and traffic, what little there'd be. Also, there'd be no such thing as someone else using "our spot" or causing problems nearby (campfires, lanterns, whatever), as can happen at a public park. Furthermore, if there is a tree in the way, we could take 'care of it' without worrying about any park regulations or permission. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Tue Jul 15 23:30:17 2003 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Calendar, 2004 Message-ID: <3F14F0F9.A9B@svpal.org> Hi, All, Here's the first cut at a calendar. As usual, there are some irregularities, so as to avoid an event on a 4-day weekend, holiday, etc. Every couple years we must jump the general meeting, so as to stay near the full moon and also stay on a 12-per-year schedule. It happens in mid-2004, when early June is followed by late July. Handily avoids a meeting on the July 4 (4-day) weekend. Mike, I tried to follow your philosophy for the ATM class. But later in the year, there was no open Saturday, so I doubled up with dark-sky star parties. It's pretty close to every other week, alternating Thursdays and Saturdays. Is there a date for the Cal-Star party? No, I didn't think there'd be a date for 2004 when the '03 event has not yet occurred. Clear Skies (and schedules!) -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site SJAA Calendar for 2004 Version 1.0, 2003 July 15, first cut sent out. APPROVED: none. Print this with a M*O*N*O*S*P*A*C*E*D font for column alignment. General ATM Astro Houge Park Dark-sky 2004 Meeting Class Class Star Party Star Party January 10 3,15,31 16 2,16,30 17, 24c February 7 12, 28 13 13, 27 14, 21c March 6 11, 27 26 12, 26 13, 20c April 3* 8, 24 9 9, 23 10, 17c May 1 6, 22 7 7, 28 8, 15c June 5 10, 26 11 11, 25 12, 19c July 31 8, 24 9 9 23 10, 17c August 28 5, 21 6 6, 20 7, 14c September 25 2,18,30 10 10, 24 11, 18c October 23 16, 28 8 8, 22 9, 16c November 20* 13, 18 5+ 5, 19 6, 13c December 18 2, 11 3, 17 4, 11c * Auction: Sunday, April 4 or May 2. General meeting before? * Fall Swap on Sunday Nov.21. ALSO general meeting on 20th. + Optional. Reserve hall. = Astronomy Day is April 24; use Houge on 23rd, 4d moon. STAR PARTY notations -- c Coe notified. Others ?? OTHER dates and events -- Messier Marathon - Mar.20, Apr.17 ideal. DST start -- Apr.4 Easter ----- Apr.11 (school vacations week before or after) TAX day ---- Apr.15, Thursday RTMC ------- May 28-31, 1Q moon preceding Thursday Shingletown- June 16 - 21 Star-B-Q --- I would recommend Aug.14, but who asked me? Cal-Star --- xxxxxxxxx xx-xx DST ends --- Oct.31 Halloween -- Oct.31, Sunday. Moonrise about 8 pm. GENERAL MEETINGS - Big discontinuity June/July. Could do GM July 3, but who'd come on a 4-day weekend? ATM Class - Doubling with star parties May, Sep - Dec. HOUGE Public star parties - Dark except March, for moon talk. Times: dark but not < 7 pm; for 3 hours but not > midnight. ASTRONOMY CLASS - Moonless dates except March 26 for Moon Class. An extra (November) reserved. COE: Usually second of successive Saturdays; letter sent to Coe. TAC calls if they want Coe on other dates. Clear Skies! Jim. From bhavner at earthlink.net Mon Jul 21 21:05:48 2003 From: bhavner at earthlink.net (Bob Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes Message-ID: <001701c35006$8950b6e0$28641e43@default> Here is what I have for the July minutes. Let me know of any revisions. Bob SJAA Board Meeting Minutes July 12, 2003 In Attendance: Mike Koop, Gary Mitchell, Dana Crom, Bill O'Shaughnessy, Jim Van Nuland, Bob Havner, Craig Scull, Elena Scull, Steve Nelson, and Dave Smith. The minutes of the June meeting were approved Treasurers Report: Gary Mitchell Checking 6/13/03 $11437.56 Savings 6/16/03 $398.24 Money Market 6/05/03 2837.16 Insurance issues regarding exchange of insurance information for events. Recommendation is for Cal-Star caterer to furnish copy of proof of insurance. Sky & Telescope price increase to $33 from $30 for 2004 renewals. RASC handbooks and calendars, it was decided to get 30 handbooks and 25 calendars for the 2004 year. Payment of the Non-Profit registration fee to the Secretary of State, Ca. of $20 was approved. Membership Report: Dave North 342 current members Loaner Scope Program: Mike Koop It was reported that there have been many scope transfers recently, no problems to report. Observational astronomy class: Bob Havner Still need instructors for class, Bill O'Shaughnessy will give his observing stars class for July. Presentation for what?s up in the sky almost complete. ATM Class Mike Koop Well attended, Stone tools being prepared for tile or steel washer surfaces. Dwight unable to attend and that left the class without test equipment. Mike had to borrow a tester for the evening. There was a discussion on weather the SJAA should invest in a tester. General meeting program: Bob Havner Tim Thompson to speak at the Aug meeting. Oct. 11 is the only date this year still open. Mike to check on speaker from Lockheed Martin. Dr. Elinor Gates has offered to speak at the 1/10/04 meeting. Houge Park Star Parties: Mike Koop Last HP lightly attended Mike reported good seeing but few telescopes. Calendar: JVN Jim has begun working on the 2004 calendar. New Business Mars opposition party to be on 8/28/03. EVC dates not set as of yet. There was a discussion about publicity: Info should be on the SJAA web site as well as in the science section of the Mercury. Coyote Lake Park star party: 1st event this Saturday 7/19. Craig and Elena Scull offered to write an article for the Ephemeris about the Coyote events. Yosemite: Due to the shortage of campsites available at Bridalveil campground it was suggested the SJAA offer to compensate early arrivers that pay for additional campsites. The motion was approved. Cal Star Caterer arrangements have been handled. Mark Wagner has completed the food schedule. 50th Anniversary of the SJAA 12/2004 is the 50th Anniversary. Of the SJAA. It was suggested that there be a event to commemorate this milestone. Mike is trying to get all back issues of the Ephemeris to be made available on the website. All back to ?73 have been collected so far. Observatory What goals do we want to set? Do we want to build an observatory of focus on other projects. Discussion had to be tabled due to lack of time. Meeting adjourned at 7:55. From bill at nineplanets.org Mon Jul 21 23:05:06 2003 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes In-Reply-To: <001701c35006$8950b6e0$28641e43@default> Message-ID: <715ACB74-BC0A-11D7-BAC1-0030655A4BEC@nineplanets.org> On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 09:05 PM, Bob Havner wrote: > ... There was a discussion on weather > the SJAA should invest in a [Foucoult] tester... The "investment" can be pretty small. I made an ugly but perfectly functional tester from scrap lumber and junk parts with just a few hours of tinkering and essentially zero cost: http://www.seds.org/billa/atm/tester/f3.html I know that there are some of you out there who are much better craftsmen than I and who could make the same thing more elegantly but still cheaply. -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Tue Jul 22 06:45:53 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes In-Reply-To: <001701c35006$8950b6e0$28641e43@default> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030722064309.00b8dd28@mail201.pair.com> At 7/21/2003, you wrote: >Insurance issues regarding exchange of insurance information for events. >Recommendation is for Cal-Star caterer to furnish copy of proof of >insurance. Hi, Was this requested by the club's insurance carrier, or if not, why is this being done? Mark From wsnelson at concentric.net Tue Jul 22 10:29:32 2003 From: wsnelson at concentric.net (wendy&steve) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes Message-ID: <01c35076$d2fa7c20$LocalHost@crc3.concentric.net> Second on Bill's small investment I was visiting the Chabot Telescope Maker's Workshop last Saturday. I was surprised by the simple technology in their tester. Seems 30 yr. old and has a W.W.II surplus type of battery holder for the illuminator batteries. Great surplus small lathe feed with precision verneer dial seemed to be the most critical part. Also a large steady moving cart to put it on. There were counter weights inside the cart to make it more steady. Suggest we do a 'surplus parts scrounge'. P.S. Chabot had 16 mirrors in process and 30 people in attendance. They also had a dedicated (ancient) computer just for the optical tests. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Arnett To: Bob Havner ; sjaaboard@sjaa.net Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] July Minutes > >On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 09:05 PM, Bob Havner wrote: > >> ... There was a discussion on weather >> the SJAA should invest in a [Foucoult] tester... > >The "investment" can be pretty small. I made an ugly but perfectly >functional tester from scrap lumber and junk parts with just a few >hours of tinkering and essentially zero cost: > http://www.seds.org/billa/atm/tester/f3.html >I know that there are some of you out there who are much better >craftsmen than I and who could make the same thing more elegantly but >still cheaply. > >-- >Bill Arnett >bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ >Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From Paulm at catc.com Tue Jul 22 10:34:04 2003 From: Paulm at catc.com (Paul Mancuso) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes Message-ID: I have a small wooden tester made by Walt Krumm, one of the founders of the club, I could donate. It's not very precise but would work for rough testing. paulm -----Original Message----- From: wendy&steve [mailto:wsnelson@concentric.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:30 AM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] July Minutes Second on Bill's small investment I was visiting the Chabot Telescope Maker's Workshop last Saturday. I was surprised by the simple technology in their tester. Seems 30 yr. old and has a W.W.II surplus type of battery holder for the illuminator batteries. Great surplus small lathe feed with precision verneer dial seemed to be the most critical part. Also a large steady moving cart to put it on. There were counter weights inside the cart to make it more steady. Suggest we do a 'surplus parts scrounge'. P.S. Chabot had 16 mirrors in process and 30 people in attendance. They also had a dedicated (ancient) computer just for the optical tests. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Arnett To: Bob Havner ; sjaaboard@sjaa.net Date: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] July Minutes > >On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 09:05 PM, Bob Havner wrote: > >> ... There was a discussion on weather >> the SJAA should invest in a [Foucoult] tester... > >The "investment" can be pretty small. I made an ugly but perfectly >functional tester from scrap lumber and junk parts with just a few >hours of tinkering and essentially zero cost: > http://www.seds.org/billa/atm/tester/f3.html >I know that there are some of you out there who are much better >craftsmen than I and who could make the same thing more elegantly but >still cheaply. > >-- >Bill Arnett >bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ >Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jul 23 00:00:28 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes References: <001701c35006$8950b6e0$28641e43@default> Message-ID: <3F1E328C.56B3@aenet.net> Bob Havner wrote: > > Here is what I have for the July minutes. Let me know of any revisions. > > Bob > > SJAA Board Meeting Minutes > July 12, 2003 > > In Attendance: Mike Koop, Gary Mitchell, Dana Crom, Bill O'Shaughnessy, Jim > Van Nuland, Bob Havner, Craig Scull, Elena Scull, Steve Nelson, and Dave > Smith. > > The minutes of the June meeting were approved > > Treasurers Report: Gary Mitchell > > Checking 6/13/03 $11437.56 > Savings 6/16/03 $398.24 > Money Market 6/05/03 2837.16 > > Insurance issues regarding exchange of insurance information for events. > Recommendation is for Cal-Star caterer to furnish copy of proof of > insurance. Well, actually, the report was that in cases like this (a small club having a star party with a caterer), we may consider it optional, although they still recommend it. It can typically cost $25 each time a vendor's insurance company issues such documentation, not to mention the bother involved to all parties. (Personally, I fail to see what it accomplishes. The caterer has insurance, so do we. Whether we draw up those forms or not shouldn't change either party's insured status. But I'm not a lawyer either. I would favor getting insurance from a company that doesn't require such bureaucracy.) I also reported that Washington Mutual will re-establish whatever exemptions were apprently dropped. This is in regards to the recent notice they sent that there'd be a monthly $12 fee on our checking account if it drops below $1500. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jul 23 00:43:12 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] July Minutes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030722064309.00b8dd28@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <3F1E3C90.6FF1@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > > At 7/21/2003, you wrote: > > >Insurance issues regarding exchange of insurance information for events. > >Recommendation is for Cal-Star caterer to furnish copy of proof of > >insurance. > > Hi, > > Was this requested by the club's insurance carrier, or if not, why is this > being done? Yes it was... but it was more like a requirement, not a request. Did you see the forms I posted here a couple of months ago? For those who may not have heard, our insurance company now requires us (all their insured) to get this insurance form from anyone we do business with. They have to get their insurance company to issue this specific insurance document listing us as an additional insured. We aren't supposed to do business with anyone who can't or won't comply. If we don't, we could lose our insurance. I talked to them about this and they said in cases like our star party, we can consider it a recommendation, not a requirement, since what we do is relatively low risk. Something just occurs to me... This includes the print shop who prints up the Ephemeris, and Sky Publishing. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Thu Jul 24 15:16:25 2003 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mars star party: closest or opposition? Message-ID: <3F205AB9.5D7@svpal.org> Take a look at a splendid image: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html I'm having second thoughts about scheduling a public Mars event on Aug.28, (when Mars is at opposition at 10:52 am, pdt). The closest approach happens on the previous day, and that is the date that will appear on most popular news reports. NASA's Astronomical Picture of the Day (the above url) mentions the closest approach and gives the Aug.27 date. Specifically, closest is Aug.27, 9:51 UTC, or 2:51 am pdt. Should we move our event up 1 day? -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 24 15:53:25 2003 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mars star party: closest or opposition? References: <3F205AB9.5D7@svpal.org> Message-ID: <3F206365.52EE@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Take a look at a splendid image: > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > > I'm having second thoughts about scheduling a public Mars event on > Aug.28, (when Mars is at opposition at 10:52 am, pdt). > > The closest approach happens on the previous day, and that is the date > that will appear on most popular news reports. > > NASA's Astronomical Picture of the Day (the above url) mentions the > closest approach and gives the Aug.27 date. > > Specifically, closest is Aug.27, 9:51 UTC, or 2:51 am pdt. Should we > move our event up 1 day? *We* know it really doesn't matter, but since this is receiving so much press... Yeah, perahaps we should. Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu Jul 24 15:59:20 2003 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mars star party: closest or opposition? In-Reply-To: <3F206365.52EE@aenet.net> Message-ID: What are the EVC Mars Dates? Schedule the Houge Park date on the opposite day from it. Mike On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Gary Mitchell wrote: > Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > > > Take a look at a splendid image: > > > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > > > > I'm having second thoughts about scheduling a public Mars event on > > Aug.28, (when Mars is at opposition at 10:52 am, pdt). > > > > The closest approach happens on the previous day, and that is the date > > that will appear on most popular news reports. > > > > NASA's Astronomical Picture of the Day (the above url) mentions the > > closest approach and gives the Aug.27 date. > > > > Specifically, closest is Aug.27, 9:51 UTC, or 2:51 am pdt. Should we > > move our event up 1 day? > > > *We* know it really doesn't matter, but since this is receiving > so much press... Yeah, perahaps we should. > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jkirkbride at SFKMinistry.org Thu Jul 24 16:15:20 2003 From: jkirkbride at SFKMinistry.org (Jeffrey Kirkbride) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mars star party: closest or opposition? In-Reply-To: <3F205AB9.5D7@svpal.org> Message-ID: I now have received official permission from the College district to have all four events that we talked about on the July SJAA meeting. Aug 28, Aug 30 Sept 4, Sept 6 Will SJAA be able to come assist on any of those 4 dates ? I do have some specific ideas of what kind of assistance we'll need. But I thought I'd let everybody on the BOD know that I got the ok from EVC first. I thought about the Wednesday idea that Jim mentioned. But due to other extenuating circumstances these are the only 4 days I could attend. By the way we installed the TMB on the Parallax mount inside the dome on Sunday afternoon July 20. Got the dome to open and rotate last night for the first time. We may be inviting some of the Sky and Telescope staff to the official opening on Sept 4. (It will be around 3:30 pm that day.) You are all very very much invited!!! Jeffrey On 7/24/03 3:16 PM, "Jim Van Nuland" wrote: > Take a look at a splendid image: > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > > I'm having second thoughts about scheduling a public Mars event on > Aug.28, (when Mars is at opposition at 10:52 am, pdt). > > The closest approach happens on the previous day, and that is the date > that will appear on most popular news reports. > > NASA's Astronomical Picture of the Day (the above url) mentions the > closest approach and gives the Aug.27 date. > > Specifically, closest is Aug.27, 9:51 UTC, or 2:51 am pdt. Should we > move our event up 1 day? From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu Jul 24 16:41:18 2003 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mars star party: closest or opposition? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So it's settled then...... SJAA Mars Dates: Houge on Aug 22 / Aug 27 / Sept 5 / Sept 19 EVC Aug 28 / Aug 30 / Sept 4 / Sept 6 Coyote Lake Park Sept 20 JVN, please contact the people at Houge park with the dates for the remaining Houge Star Parties for the rest of the year plus the new Mars date on Wed Aug 27 and the Lunar Eclipse on Sat Nov 8th. The spriklers in front of Bld 1 did turn on at the last SP. I warned folks to be ready to move, but fortunately, they did not turn on. Let's make sure to keep it that way. Bill Arnett, could you put together a webpage listing our Star Parties with good Mars viewing dates as listed above? Put a featured link (Like Yosemite and CalStar) to the main web page. If you could also make a table for the dates of when Mars gets over 30 deg from the horizon (an attempt to show when seeing gets better with OK public times) and when it transits, along with distance to Mars and Apparent Size. Thanks. Mike On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Jeffrey Kirkbride wrote: > I now have received official permission from the College district to have > all four events that we talked about on the July SJAA meeting. > > Aug 28, Aug 30 > Sept 4, Sept 6 > > Will SJAA be able to come assist on any of those 4 dates ? > > I do have some specific ideas of what kind of assistance we'll need. > > But I thought I'd let everybody on the BOD know that I got the ok from EVC > first. > > I thought about the Wednesday idea that Jim mentioned. But due to other > extenuating circumstances these are the only 4 days I could attend. > > > By the way we installed the TMB on the Parallax mount inside the dome on > Sunday afternoon July 20. Got the dome to open and rotate last night for > the first time. > > We may be inviting some of the Sky and Telescope staff to the official > opening on Sept 4. (It will be around 3:30 pm that day.) > > You are all very very much invited!!! > > Jeffrey > > > > > On 7/24/03 3:16 PM, "Jim Van Nuland" wrote: > > > Take a look at a splendid image: > > > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html > > > > I'm having second thoughts about scheduling a public Mars event on > > Aug.28, (when Mars is at opposition at 10:52 am, pdt). > > > > The closest approach happens on the previous day, and that is the date > > that will appear on most popular news reports. > > > > NASA's Astronomical Picture of the Day (the above url) mentions the > > closest approach and gives the Aug.27 date. > > > > Specifically, closest is Aug.27, 9:51 UTC, or 2:51 am pdt. Should we > > move our event up 1 day? > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jane at whiteoaks.com Tue Jul 29 13:48:52 2003 From: jane at whiteoaks.com (Jane Houston Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris deadline Message-ID: <3F26DDB4.6010009@whiteoaks.com> Just a friendly reminder that the 10th of the month is the cutoff date for submissions to the SJAA Ephemeris. It has always been the cutoff date but not everyone knows it. We'll put a note to that effect in the next issue. Looking at the calendar, I see that we will be away at the SFAA Yosemite trip Wednesday night August 13 through Sunday night August 17th so the only available dates we have to work on the newsletter are Sunday the 10th through Tuesday the 12th. We may continue on to Don Machholz's Starry Starry Nights event on the 17th, but that night be too much camping/observing/hauling telescopes. So get those artcles, calendar events, and pictures etc in to us by the 10th. It would be great to have a brief Coyote Park and/or a Yosemite report in the next newsletter, along with our regular columns. And speaking of Mars, I already added the SJAA Houge/Coyote/EVC dates to this Marspage available on the AANC website, and which many members of the press accesss. http://www.whiteoaks.com/jane/Mars/ Jane -- Jane Houston Jones San Rafael, CA jane@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Tue Jul 29 13:55:55 2003 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris deadline In-Reply-To: <3F26DDB4.6010009@whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030729135347.00b96640@mail201.pair.com> At 7/29/2003, you wrote: > > >but that night be too much observing . > > The above sentence surely is not from Jane. Someone must be using her e-mail account without permission. From jane at whiteoaks.com Tue Jul 29 14:26:05 2003 From: jane at whiteoaks.com (Jane Houston Jones) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:21 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris deadline References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030729135347.00b96640@mail201.pair.com> Message-ID: <3F26E66D.40309@whiteoaks.com> A momentary lapse. Let's forget I said it. Don't tell anyone, ok? :-) JHJ Mark Wagner wrote: >> but that night be too much observing . > > The above sentence surely is not from Jane. Someone must be using her > e-mail account without permission. -- Jane Houston Jones San Rafael, CA jane@whiteoaks.com http://www.whiteoaks.com