From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Apr 1 16:18:54 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance Message-ID: <406CB16E.1A10@aenet.net> The good news is... SJAA will be insured Friday, April 2. A couple of hours ago Mike told me to FedEx our insurance premium to Seabury & Smith right away, so we'd be covered in time for the auction. It's scheduled to arrive by 10:30 AM tomorrow. (We'll be insured once they have the check.) The bad news is... This was that $1067 premium I mentioned a while back. Also, if we could have managed to make this decision just a few days sooner, I would have sent it by regular first class mail and saved the club $29 in FedEx charges. The insurance is over $3 per member. A quick calculation indicates the newsletter costs over $8 per member per year. If we're careful with all other expenditures, we should still be OK without raising dues, but the gap is getting narrower. Let's hope we do well at the auction & swap. Gary From bill at nineplanets.org Thu Apr 1 16:29:49 2004 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <406CB16E.1A10@aenet.net> References: <406CB16E.1A10@aenet.net> Message-ID: $1000 for insurance is completely outrageous. Did the board consider just doing without? Or if the cost is really per member, then perhaps we should all drop our memberships! Of course, we can all still come to the meetings and receive the newsletter and make voluntary "contributions" in an amount equal to the old "dues".... On Apr 1, 2004, at 4:18 PM, Gary Mitchell wrote: > The good news is... > SJAA will be insured Friday, April 2. A couple of hours ago > Mike told me to FedEx our insurance premium to Seabury & Smith > right away, so we'd be covered in time for the auction. It's > scheduled to arrive by 10:30 AM tomorrow. (We'll be insured > once they have the check.) > > The bad news is... > This was that $1067 premium I mentioned a while back. Also, > if we could have managed to make this decision just a few days > sooner, I would have sent it by regular first class mail and > saved the club $29 in FedEx charges. > > > The insurance is over $3 per member. A quick calculation > indicates the newsletter costs over $8 per member per year. > If we're careful with all other expenditures, we should still > be OK without raising dues, but the gap is getting narrower. > Let's hope we do well at the auction & swap. > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org http://nineplanets.org/ Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W From edanaila at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 16:35:42 2004 From: edanaila at yahoo.com (Elena Danaila) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <406CB16E.1A10@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20040402003542.15509.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> It is good news Gary. We'll see if we can do better next time. The unfortunate reality is that being uninsured in the litigious society we live in is not a good idea. Some of our core activities would be at risk. Thank you all for working so hard on this insurance deal. -Elena Gary Mitchell wrote: The good news is... SJAA will be insured Friday, April 2. A couple of hours ago Mike told me to FedEx our insurance premium to Seabury & Smith right away, so we'd be covered in time for the auction. It's scheduled to arrive by 10:30 AM tomorrow. (We'll be insured once they have the check.) The bad news is... This was that $1067 premium I mentioned a while back. Also, if we could have managed to make this decision just a few days sooner, I would have sent it by regular first class mail and saved the club $29 in FedEx charges. The insurance is over $3 per member. A quick calculation indicates the newsletter costs over $8 per member per year. If we're careful with all other expenditures, we should still be OK without raising dues, but the gap is getting narrower. Let's hope we do well at the auction & swap. Gary _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20040401/378a4a28/attachment.html From areopagus125 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 22:14:01 2004 From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <20040402003542.15509.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040402061401.57234.qmail@web12210.mail.yahoo.com> I echo Elena's thoughts. Thank you for all the work. -- David __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From mgwagner at resource-intl.com Thu Apr 1 22:18:46 2004 From: mgwagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <20040402061401.57234.qmail@web12210.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040402003542.15509.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040401221743.00b94760@mail201.pair.com> At 4/1/2004, you wrote: >I echo Elena's thoughts. Thank you for all the work. Me too. There was a tremendous amount of work trying to resolve the situation. Thanks to a very overworked Mike and to Gary. From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Apr 2 15:21:55 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance References: <406CB16E.1A10@aenet.net> Message-ID: <406DF593.2B2E@aenet.net> Bill Arnett wrote: > > $1000 for insurance is completely outrageous. I agree. Mike and I have been looking around and it seems the going rate is around $1200. Even then, the insurance companies don't seem to be too eager. I don't understand why. Maybe there have been several claims (around the country) lately. > Did the board consider > just doing without? One board member has already resigned over the fact that we don't have liability insurance. Some places where we set up require some kind of liability insurance. We'd probably have to consult a lawyer who speciallizes in these things to say whether this should even be considered. My understanding is that the board and officers are protected by the fact that the SJAA is incorporated, so long as no one does anything stupid or illegal. On top of that, insurance provides a sizable buffer. > Or if the cost is really per member, then perhaps we should all drop > our memberships! Of course, we can all still come to the meetings and > receive the newsletter and make voluntary "contributions" in an amount > equal to the old "dues".... The forms I've seen ask how many *active* members there are. I guess we could only count those who really are active, literally. Maybe we should have two classes of members, active and passive, the only difference being whether you actually do something. :) Gary From RNapo at znet.com Fri Apr 2 16:58:41 2004 From: RNapo at znet.com (Rich N.) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance Message-ID: <002201c41916$cf669d00$a8f71345@pavilion> -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mitchell To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Date: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance >Bill Arnett wrote: >> >> $1000 for insurance is completely outrageous. > >I agree. Mike and I have been looking around and it seems the >going rate is around $1200. Even then, the insurance companies >don't seem to be too eager. I don't understand why. Maybe >there have been several claims (around the country) lately. > >> Did the board consider >> just doing without? > >One board member has already resigned over the fact that we >don't have liability insurance. Some places where we set up >require some kind of liability insurance. > >We'd probably have to consult a lawyer who speciallizes in >these things to say whether this should even be considered. > >My understanding is that the board and officers are protected >by the fact that the SJAA is incorporated, so long as no one >does anything stupid or illegal. On top of that, insurance >provides a sizable buffer. > >> Or if the cost is really per member, then perhaps we should all drop >> our memberships! Of course, we can all still come to the meetings and >> receive the newsletter and make voluntary "contributions" in an amount >> equal to the old "dues".... > >The forms I've seen ask how many *active* members there are. I >guess we could only count those who really are active, literally. >Maybe we should have two classes of members, active and passive, >the only difference being whether you actually do something. :) > >Gary Hi Gary and board, Just an FYI... here is how the issue of active members was addressed in 1995. The following is a report I made on insurance for the SJAA. Rich --------------------------------------------------------------------- San Jose Astronomical Association Insurance Report May 23, 1995 company contact premium descr. 1. All West Ins. Taylor Lampson $1000 p/yr $1 mil. non-profit orgs 2. " " 500 p/yr plus a handling fee is charged 3. Cal Farm Ins. Larry Jauregui 283 p/yr $1 mil. (no longer available) 4. Albert Wohlers Dolly ex. 231 259+ p/yr $1 mil. (Astro League) More on Astronomical League's insurance: I spoke again today with Dolly at Albert Wohlers & Co. Insurance Company in Florida. I asked about what they mean by "active members". She said "active members" are the members who take part in club activities like star parties. I said that a small percentage of our members attend star parties and asked if we only covered 50 or 75 members would the insurance company question who was covered if we had a claim? She said that their company doesn't audit their clients. Costs: Club & Chapter Liability Insurance $259 is the minimum premium for California clubs and 50 active members would come under this minimum premium. $280 would cover 70 active members $300 would cover 75 active members Coverage: $1 million and $2 million aggreate per year. Astro. League: to get the Wohlers C.C.L. insurance we must join the Astronomical League. The cost to join the League is $20 per year for our club and $1.75 per year per SJAA member (all members must join). 210 members * 1.75 = $367.50 SJAA 20.00 ------- $387.50 A.L. membership cost Insurance 50 members 259.00 (minimum) ------- $646.50 ======= > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Apr 3 07:47:34 2004 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <002201c41916$cf669d00$a8f71345@pavilion> Message-ID: What about CalStar? We also have the insurance to cover our sponsorship of that. The insurance is a reality. Given the amount of public star parties that SJAA does some form of liability insurance is a requirement. I would not want to depend on the corporate shield alone. I think it is poor policy to depend on members being inactive. > Even then, the insurance companies don't seem to be too eager. That would be interesting to understand. I would think that these policies would be almost pure profit. It may be that the risks of our activity are poorly understood. Rob Hawley From Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com Sat Apr 3 09:42:52 2004 From: Sol.Man at IndigoSkies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: References: <002201c41916$cf669d00$a8f71345@pavilion> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040403084252.00b34088@indigoskies.com> At 07:47 AM 4/3/2004, Rob Hawley wrote: >It may be that the risks of our activity are >poorly understood. That is precisely what I've been thinking throughout this whole discussion. When I looked at the questions insurers tend to ask us, and thought about the way the more familiar organizations insure for activities, I came to realize (or at least strongly suspect) that we are over-insuring because (a) none of the agents is doing a good job of understanding us, nor are they (b) helping us to understand their underlying concerns. There are two key points I think we need to consider when talking to an insurance agency... ** What is an "active member"? 1) Is it how many paid members we have at present? 2) Is it how many paid members show up, on average, for any given activity? 3) Is it how many paid members show up, maximum, at the biggest activity of the year? I suspect that only #2 or #3 make any sense at all, but it sounds like we are giving out #1 as the answer, which would naturally inflate the price. Why do you suppose we would need insurance for people who never attend any of our activities, and cannot therefore be the cause of liability? ** What is it the insurance companies think they are insuring us against? A) Our own members suing the organization? B) The attending public suing the organization because of what a member did/didn't do at an event they attended. Possibility (A) seems to relate to the #1 above - the total number of paid members; but I really doubt that this is the crux of the risk and the rates. Possibility (B) is likely. The risk they would be insuring us against is directly related to TWO numbers: * The number of our members present at any given activity (those able to do something wrong; more members means more risk of wrongdoing) * The number of public that are present at any given activity (those able to sue for something, whether frivolous or real; again, more present means more risk) Assuming this assessment is correct, that some combination of #2/#3 and #B are what really matters to insurers, it is clear that our events carry a variable level of risk - not only from one kind of event to the next, but from one instance to the next throughout the year. For example: * Your *average* Houge star party night has what, 6 members and 50 public? Sure there are some really heavily attended ones. but there are also some really light ones. * Your average meeting has, say 30-40 members and 3-5 public? It's a completely different risk profile from the Houge star parties. * School star parties - many events, few SJAAers, and many school attendees. And being on public school grounds and a public school event, I'm sure their insurance shares the risk, thus reducing our part. * A once-per-year event like Messier Marathon has a LOT of members at it, and some public, but most of the non-members are actually members in other astro organizations - does their insurance count for anything? * The 1/yr CalStar event has >1000 people attending, and only a tiny percentage of that are SJAA members. The rest are members of other clubs, and maybe a few of the public. * Auction - A lot of SJAAer, a lot of other clubs' members, a few public In order to get a fair rate, I believe we are challenged with making the insurance companies better understand our true risk profile, and its variable nature. I propose the club needs to produce a list of all of our events for a "typical year", along with: * a count of our members attending * a count of other clubs' members likely attending * a count of public attendees * Other factors affecting the risk level, such as school insurance Be sure to note somewhere that there will be some percentage of "washouts" where no event happens at all. Let the insurers see the true risk profile, and how small it is for the vast majority of the year. If nothing else comes of it, talking to insurers about this list we give us a better understanding of which of our activities "cost the most" and can reassess how/if we do them, or whether there is a way to bring the risk down in the insurers' eyes. Best regards, Mark From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Apr 3 14:15:58 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance References: <002201c41916$cf669d00$a8f71345@pavilion> <5.2.1.1.0.20040403084252.00b34088@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <406F379E.75E5@aenet.net> Mark Taylor wrote: > ** What is an "active member"? > 1) Is it how many paid members we have at present? > 2) Is it how many paid members show up, on average, for any given activity? > 3) Is it how many paid members show up, maximum, at the biggest activity > of the year? > > I suspect that only #2 or #3 make any sense at all, but it sounds like we > are giving out #1 as the answer, which would naturally inflate the > price. Why do you suppose we would need insurance for people who never > attend any of our activities, and cannot therefore be the cause of liability? It seemed to me that "active members" meant valid, paid-up, normal members, as opposed to non-paid-up members or some kind of honorary members. But that was an assumption on my part, they weren't specific. > ** What is it the insurance companies think they are insuring us against? > A) Our own members suing the organization? > B) The attending public suing the organization because of what a member > did/didn't do at an event they attended. More likely: C) Someone trips over a tripod or some other equipment in the area. They can claim we encouraged them to walk around in the dark etc. etc. etc. so we were liable/negligent for creating an inherently hazardous environment etc etc etc. :/ What if we didn't have liability insurance? Would any lawyer take the case knowing the club only has 10 to 15 K in the bank plus some scopes? Would they sue individual members? That could happen no matter what insurance the club has. That's where the SJAA's incorporated status comes into play (providing it's a club function). > Assuming this assessment is correct, that some combination of #2/#3 and #B > are what really matters to insurers, it is clear that our events carry a > variable level of risk - not only from one kind of event to the next, but > from one instance to the next throughout the year. We could analyze this to death, coming up with all kinds of paranoid scenarios. So long as we're all reasonable and conscientious, what else can we do? Cases are often based on what a "reasonable person" would do/say/think. If that's the angle we work from, we should be OK. > For example: > * Your *average* Houge star party night has what, 6 members and 50 > public? I'd say it's more like two or three times as many scopes. > Sure there are some really heavily attended ones. but there are > also some really light ones. > * Your average meeting has, say 30-40 members and 3-5 public? It's a > completely different risk profile from the Houge star parties. > * School star parties - many events, few SJAAers, and many school > attendees. And being on public school grounds and a public school event, > I'm sure their insurance shares the risk, thus reducing our part. In the case of Houge, they probably have something too. It's a public city park after all, and we're authorized to be there. > * A once-per-year event like Messier Marathon has a LOT of members at it, > and some public, but most of the non-members are actually members in other > astro organizations - does their insurance count for anything? > * The 1/yr CalStar event has >1000 people attending, and only a tiny > percentage of that are SJAA members. The rest are members of other clubs, > and maybe a few of the public. But who sponsored it? That's what counts. > * Auction - A lot of SJAAer, a lot of other clubs' members, a few public Again, it's a SJAA event. > In order to get a fair rate, I believe we are challenged with making the > insurance companies better understand our true risk profile, and its > variable nature. I propose the club needs to produce a list of all of our > events for a "typical year", along with: > * a count of our members attending > * a count of other clubs' members likely attending > * a count of public attendees Those events and numbers are included in the insurance application. > * Other factors affecting the risk level, such as school insurance > > Be sure to note somewhere that there will be some percentage of "washouts" > where no event happens at all. Let the insurers see the true risk profile, > and how small it is for the vast majority of the year. We could probably make up our own application, including all these details, but companies that insure clubs do this sort of thing for a living. They have their own formula... that's what would be helpful for us to know. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Sat Apr 3 14:38:55 2004 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Logo contest Message-ID: <406F3CFF.4038@svpal.org> Here's the top of a piece of stationery just found in my paper box: http://www.svpal.org/~jvn/logo800.jpg I'll not mention the designer's name, other than that he does NOT have a Z in his name. This is a reduced-resolution image. I have a scan at 300 DPI (Thanks, Akkana!) that's much bigger. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Apr 3 16:15:20 2004 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Logo contest In-Reply-To: <406F3CFF.4038@svpal.org> Message-ID: I like that logo better than the current one. We don't (and probably will never) operate a fixed, domed observatory. Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net]On Behalf Of Jim Van Nuland Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 2:39 PM To: SJAA Board Subject: [SJAABoard] Logo contest Here's the top of a piece of stationery just found in my paper box: http://www.svpal.org/~jvn/logo800.jpg I'll not mention the designer's name, other than that he does NOT have a Z in his name. This is a reduced-resolution image. I have a scan at 300 DPI (Thanks, Akkana!) that's much bigger. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From RNapo at znet.com Sat Apr 3 19:18:22 2004 From: RNapo at znet.com (Rich N.) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance Message-ID: <000a01c419f3$7d321cc0$aff71345@pavilion> >At 07:47 AM 4/3/2004, Rob Hawley wrote: >>It may be that the risks of our activity are >>poorly understood. > >That is precisely what I've been thinking throughout this whole >discussion. When I looked at the questions insurers tend to ask us, and >thought about the way the more familiar organizations insure for >activities, I came to realize (or at least strongly suspect) that we are >over-insuring because (a) none of the agents is doing a good job of >understanding us, nor are they (b) helping us to understand their >underlying concerns. There are two key points I think we need to consider >when talking to an insurance agency... Mark brings up an excellent point. It would also seem that the insurance companies aren't looking at the long track record of the SJAA in putting on events and not having problems. Some auto drivers are given better rates because of an excellent track record of driving without an accident. I'm sure the city, county and state parks systems also are insured. I don't know if any overlap liability is worth considering. Rich From RNapo at znet.com Sat Apr 3 19:50:09 2004 From: RNapo at znet.com (Rich N.) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance Message-ID: <001b01c419f7$edb38c00$aff71345@pavilion> >Mark brings up an excellent point. It would also seem that the >insurance companies aren't looking at the long track record of the >SJAA in putting on events and not having problems. Some auto >drivers are given better rates because of an excellent track record >of driving without an accident. > >I'm sure the city, county and state parks systems also are insured. >I don't know if any overlap liability is worth considering. > >Rich The idea of "over lapping" insurance comes to mind because some, maybe most, of us have a good sized personal liability policy. Rich From jvn at svpal.org Sun Apr 4 00:56:33 2004 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Liability Insurance References: <000a01c419f3$7d321cc0$aff71345@pavilion> Message-ID: <406FCDC1.139E@svpal.org> Rich N. wrote: > > I'm sure the city, county and state parks systems also are insured. Not San Jose -- the paperwork for Houge Park tosses the liability back to us. We are used to logic. The law doesn't work on logic; there's no way we can reason out what liabilities we may or may not have. And even the law will differ in different instances and judges. Is there a lawyer in the house? -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Apr 5 01:17:59 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results Message-ID: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> An initial back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates we got a net total of $1853.20 at Sunday's auction and swap, $196 of which came from the swap. Much of the proceeds are due to donated items rather than commission. Gary Mitchell Treasurer From pkohlmil at best.com Mon Apr 5 07:48:07 2004 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000f01c41b1d$024b5730$0200a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Is this info suitable for the next newsletter. Anything we can say vis-a-vis comparisons to previous years? PK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mitchell" To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:17 AM Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results > An initial back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates we got > a net total of $1853.20 at Sunday's auction and swap, $196 of > which came from the swap. Much of the proceeds are due to > donated items rather than commission. > > Gary Mitchell > Treasurer > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From north at znet.com Mon Apr 5 08:01:44 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results In-Reply-To: <000f01c41b1d$024b5730$0200a8c0@eclipsys.lan> References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> <000f01c41b1d$024b5730$0200a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <27879606-8712-11D8-9C10-000393836B64@znet.com> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Is this info suitable for the next newsletter? Insofar as it is accurate, it's public information and almost a responsibility to report it. Gary's figures tend to be pretty darn good. > Anything we can say vis-a-vis comparisons to previous years? It's great! Covers the insurance more than neatly, too. Dave From jvn at svpal.org Tue Apr 6 00:46:46 2004 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Article: Auction/swap preliminary results References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> Message-ID: <40726066.1138@svpal.org> Auction XXIV Our annual SJAA/Bay-Area Auction has come and gone. It ran well, with only a few glitches that we handled quickly. Kevin Medlock was our auctioneer, and ran the show with his usual combination of humor and expertise. He got off to a good start when is "Are we ready?" was met with a big WOOF! from Sharon Sunseri's dog. There were a few big donors, and we thank them very much. In particular: Scope City, posters, calendars, etc. $473 John Hatta, books $123 Sky Image Labs, framed prints $445 John Gleason, Astro Photo Surprise! $120 Darwin Poulos, C-90 $ 90 There were 89 different items offered for sale, total of 101, of which yielded 83 sales. There were 80 people registered, counting buyers and sellers, not all of whom bought or sold; there were 44 who did. The Auction sales totaled $4561, net for SJAA $1629.70. To that, Gary reports $198 from the swap meet, and about $27 from soda sales and small donations, for a grand total of about $1853. Thank you to all who bought and sold, and to those whose hard work made it all run well. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 6 03:59:25 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Article: Auction/swap preliminary results References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> <40726066.1138@svpal.org> Message-ID: <40728D8D.4DAA@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > > Auction XXIV > > Our annual SJAA/Bay-Area Auction has come and gone. It ran well, with > only a few glitches that we handled quickly. Kevin Medlock was our > auctioneer, and ran the show with his usual combination of humor and > expertise. He got off to a good start when is "Are we ready?" was met > with a big WOOF! from Sharon Sunseri's dog. > > There were a few big donors, and we thank them very much. In > particular: > > Scope City, posters, calendars, etc. $473 > John Hatta, books $123 > Sky Image Labs, framed prints $445 > John Gleason, Astro Photo Surprise! $120 > Darwin Poulos, C-90 $ 90 > > There were 89 different items offered for sale, total of 101, of which > yielded 83 sales. There were 80 people registered, counting buyers and > sellers, not all of whom bought or sold; there were 44 who did. > > The Auction sales totaled $4561, net for SJAA $1629.70. To that, Gary > reports $198 from the swap meet, and about $27 from soda sales and small > donations, for a grand total of about $1853. Thank you to all who > bought and sold, and to those whose hard work made it all run well. Actually, we had $33 net from soda sales and $196 from the swap. Our total take was $1869.20 (corrected from my preliminary report...). We had $10.5 in cash donations, which Jim didn't account for. This brings his total to $1869.70--exactly the same. Ooh, I love it when that happens! :) Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 6 04:19:57 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> <000f01c41b1d$024b5730$0200a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <4072925D.120C@aenet.net> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > Is this info suitable for the next newsletter. Not quite... see my reply to Jim's report for that. (I can break it down in to categories later, if you like.) As I said, that was just a back-of-the-envelope calculation to give the board a preliminary idea of how it went. I've already spotted a couple of errors... the corrected grand total is $1869.70. > Anything we can say vis-a-vis comparisons to previous years? From an accounting point of view, last year didn't go too well. I think we had a net total of $1950.73, but there were discrepancies. Still, this is probably as close as we'll ever get... +/- $50 or so. This year went much smoother. We had a couple of glitches and noticed places for improvement, but as far as I'm concerned, this year was a vast improvement. Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mitchell" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:17 AM > Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results > > > An initial back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates we got > > a net total of $1853.20 at Sunday's auction and swap, $196 of > > which came from the swap. Much of the proceeds are due to > > donated items rather than commission. > > > > Gary Mitchell > > Treasurer > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 6 04:20:51 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction/swap preliminary results References: <40711637.4128@aenet.net> <27879606-8712-11D8-9C10-000393836B64@znet.com> Message-ID: <40729293.399F@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > > Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > > Is this info suitable for the next newsletter? > > Insofar as it is accurate, it's public information and almost a > responsibility to report it. Gary's figures tend to be pretty darn > good. Eventually. :) Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Tue Apr 6 20:40:09 2004 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Article: Auction/swap preliminary results In-Reply-To: <40726066.1138@svpal.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Jim Van Nuland wrote: > expertise. He got off to a good start when is "Are we ready?" was met > with a big WOOF! from Sharon Sunseri's dog. > ^^^^^^ Her name is Karin. From north at znet.com Mon Apr 12 14:17:11 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town Message-ID: We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday afternoon. Will try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a dropoff to Gary before going. Just FYI, Dave North From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Mon Apr 12 16:09:00 2004 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the Heads up Dave. Did we ever hear back from the Marsh Affinity group about our insurance? If you or Gary see it, please let me know ASAP. Thanks. Clear Skies and Travels, Mike On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Dave North wrote: > We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday afternoon. Will > try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a dropoff to Gary > before going. > > Just FYI, > > > Dave North > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From north at znet.com Mon Apr 12 18:49:58 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael Koop wrote: > Did we ever hear back from the Marsh Affinity group about our > insurance? > If you or Gary see it, please let me know ASAP. I'll be going to the P.O. tomorrow (and it looks like our departure moved up to Wednesday morning) so I'll be getting stuff to Gary sometime in the afternoon... d From craigus at rocketmail.com Mon Apr 12 20:35:37 2004 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040413033537.60704.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Dave I thought you were out of town already because I emailed you more than a week ago telling you about a membership appllication and fees I had taken in. What am I supposed to do with this? thanks Craig --- Dave North wrote: > We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday > afternoon. Will > try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a > dropoff to Gary > before going. > > Just FYI, > > > Dave North > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From north at znet.com Mon Apr 12 21:49:25 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town In-Reply-To: <20040413033537.60704.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040413033537.60704.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > What am I supposed to do with this? Send it again I guess. I need name address email check# amt and if skytel or not. The papers themselves should go to Gary Mitchell. d From pkohlmil at best.com Tue Apr 13 00:28:15 2004 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Proofread Message-ID: <001701c42128$e2bd4600$0500a8c0@PKHPXPP> Dear Ephemerinos, The May issue of Ephemeris can be seen at http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0405/EphMay04.pdf Please give it a read and send all comments/corrections before Wednesday AM. This issue, like most, is crammed with goodies. We thank you for your time, Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20040413/7ce45fe6/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 13 00:55:49 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Out of town References: <20040413033537.60704.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <407B9D05.764A@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > > Hi Dave > > I thought you were out of town already because I emailed > you more than a week ago telling you about a membership > appllication and fees I had taken in. What am I supposed > to do with this? > > thanks > Craig Probably the easiest thing to do is hand 'em over to me or Dave the next time you see one of us. Or, if you've had them for a while and want to get moving on them, e-mail Dave all the info that's on the forms, plus their check number and amount. Then just give them to me whenever, include a note that Dave already has the info. Gary > --- Dave North wrote: > > We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday > > afternoon. Will > > try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a > > dropoff to Gary > > before going. > > > > Just FYI, > > > > > > Dave North > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From jvn at svpal.org Tue Apr 13 01:48:50 2004 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My absence May 1 through May 29 Message-ID: <407BA972.78CE@svpal.org> Hi, All, I'll be visiting family in Wisconsin, leaving early on May 1, returning late on May 29. I'll have access to e-mail, but not as frequently as here at home. I could miss a day or two. By May, the school star party program will be over, as starting time will be too late, after 9 pm. I'll manage the hot line message remotely, as in previous years, along with notices to the Merc-News for the public star parties. Also the postmaster tasks for the club server. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's home page From north at znet.com Tue Apr 13 11:17:16 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Membership Message-ID: 345 total on the list, which is remarkably stable -- really no significant change for months. Dave From edanaila at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 13:12:47 2004 From: edanaila at yahoo.com (Elena Danaila) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] membership info... In-Reply-To: <407B9D05.764A@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20040413201247.46771.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, OK, here it goes, we have $15 for SJAA membership from Thank you. We'll give you the $ at the next board meeing when I also need to renew my membership. Clear skies! -Elena Gary Mitchell wrote: Craig Scull wrote: > > Hi Dave > > I thought you were out of town already because I emailed > you more than a week ago telling you about a membership > appllication and fees I had taken in. What am I supposed > to do with this? > > thanks > Craig Probably the easiest thing to do is hand 'em over to me or Dave the next time you see one of us. Or, if you've had them for a while and want to get moving on them, e-mail Dave all the info that's on the forms, plus their check number and amount. Then just give them to me whenever, include a note that Dave already has the info. Gary > --- Dave North wrote: > > We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday > > afternoon. Will > > try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a > > dropoff to Gary > > before going. > > > > Just FYI, > > > > > > Dave North > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20040413/e06e4f92/attachment.html From north at znet.com Tue Apr 13 13:48:32 2004 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] membership info... In-Reply-To: <20040413201247.46771.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040413201247.46771.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > OK, here it goes Got it. Perhaps such information should not be printed to the general list, however. Probably harmless though. d From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 13 15:42:24 2004 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:24 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] membership info... References: <20040413201247.46771.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <407C6CD0.2069@aenet.net> Elena Danaila wrote: > > Hi Gary, > OK, here it goes, we have $15 for SJAA membership from > Anupam Dalal [snip] Umm, well, the key phrase in my reply was "e-mail to Dave." Emailing someone's complete info to the board remailer is probably OK, but in general you need to be careful about sending things like that to a remailer. > Thank you. We'll give you the $ at the next board meeing when I also > need to renew my membership. Was their payment cash? I'll need to be able to keep straight what money comes from whom. Thanks, Gary > Clear skies! > -Elena > > Gary Mitchell wrote: > > Craig Scull wrote: > > > > Hi Dave > > > > I thought you were out of town already because I emailed > > you more than a week ago telling you about a membership > > appllication and fees I had taken in. What am I supposed > > to do with this? > > > > thanks > > Craig > > Probably the easiest thing to do is hand 'em over to me or > Dave the next time you see one of us. Or, if you've had > them for a while and want to get moving on them, e-mail Dave > all the info that's on the forms, plus their check number > and amount. Then just give them to me whenever, include a > note that Dave already has the info. > > Gary > > > --- Dave North wrote: > > > We'll be "MIA" for about ten days starting Wednesday > > > afternoon. Will > > > try to get by the box, handle the mail and make a > > > dropoff to Gary > > > before going. > > > > > > Just FYI, > > > > > > > > > Dave North > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SJAABoard mailing list > > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard