From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Apr 1 01:18:35 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris cost increased In-Reply-To: <67C1254C7F68D2118F9300A0C9EA07CC01FF1F59@SJ-NT-EX1> References: <67C1254C7F68D2118F9300A0C9EA07CC01FF1F59@SJ-NT-EX1> Message-ID: <424D11EB.2060608@aenet.net> Kohlmiller, Paul wrote: > This wasn't because the March issue (printed mid-February) was 12 pages, was > it? No, the bill for that was $292.28... which of course really caught my eye--the normal bill was almost half that. The increase evidently just happened to occur at the same time, plus we printed 375 issues that month instead of 350. The April run was more normal (350 issues, 8 pages). Gary > Paul K > > -----Original Message----- > From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On > Behalf Of Gary Mitchell > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:49 PM > To: SJAA Board > Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris cost increased > > Just letting the board know... > > Our AccuPrint bill has increased (where we get the Ephemeris printed). It > used to be a little over five cents per page, now it's six. There was no > notice or anything that I know of, the bill simply went up. > > We usually print 350 newsletters each month. The typical total printing > cost (with tax) for an eight page newsletter was $162.38; as of last month, > it's now $181.86. That's about 52.0 cents per issue, up from about 46.4 > cents. > > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Apr 11 01:03:13 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA and Group 70, Thursday meeting Message-ID: <425A2F41.4080102@aenet.net> I just heard back from Dan Zuras, president of Group 70. It seems that the SFAA is looking into getting access to Mt. Tam for themselves and they're thinking the same thing we were, about Group 70 joining them. Group 70 will be getting together this Thursday for pizza and we're all welcome to attend. We've got a school star party scheduled for that night, but Group 70 is meeting at 5:30, so there's a couple of hours available. This school is in Milpitas, so as far as I'm concerned, that's half way there. :) Dan Zuras wrote: > I'll tell you what, a bunch of the Group70 people are getting > together this Thursday 4/14 at 5:30 at a pizza joint in Santa > Clara called Last Chance. It is not far from our old shop > near the corner of De La Cruz & Aldo & can be found on this > map: > > http://group70.org/images/mapg70.gif > A couple of you were interested in meeting with the Group 70 folks, this would be a good time. The general location is in that light industrial area just north of the San Jose airport. Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Mon Apr 11 16:44:30 2005 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA and Group 70, Thursday meeting In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050411234431.91119.qmail@web53804.mail.yahoo.com> Bummer! Looks real interesting. Unfortunately, I can't attend as I'll be working that night. Craig --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > I just heard back from Dan Zuras, president of Group > 70. > > It seems that the SFAA is looking into getting access > to > Mt. Tam for themselves and they're thinking the same > thing > we were, about Group 70 joining them. > > Group 70 will be getting together this Thursday for > pizza > and we're all welcome to attend. > > We've got a school star party scheduled for that night, > but Group 70 is meeting at 5:30, so there's a couple of > hours available. This school is in Milpitas, so as far > as I'm concerned, that's half way there. :) > > Dan Zuras wrote: > > I'll tell you what, a bunch of the Group70 > people are getting > > together this Thursday 4/14 at 5:30 at a > pizza joint in Santa > > Clara called Last Chance. It is not far from > our old shop > > near the corner of De La Cruz & Aldo & can be > found on this > > map: > > > > http://group70.org/images/mapg70.gif > > > > A couple of you were interested in meeting with the > Group > 70 folks, this would be a good time. The general > location > is in that light industrial area just north of the San > Jose > airport. > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon Apr 11 20:43:20 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA and Group 70, Thursday meeting References: <20050411234431.91119.qmail@web53804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c53f11$d4177c30$68179a0a@roblaptop> Ditto I'll be out of town ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Scull" To: "Business list for SJAA board of directors and members" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] SJAA and Group 70, Thursday meeting > Bummer! Looks real interesting. Unfortunately, I can't > attend as I'll be working that night. > Craig > > --- Gary Mitchell wrote: >> I just heard back from Dan Zuras, president of Group >> 70. >> >> It seems that the SFAA is looking into getting access >> to >> Mt. Tam for themselves and they're thinking the same >> thing >> we were, about Group 70 joining them. >> >> Group 70 will be getting together this Thursday for >> pizza >> and we're all welcome to attend. >> >> We've got a school star party scheduled for that night, >> but Group 70 is meeting at 5:30, so there's a couple of >> hours available. This school is in Milpitas, so as far >> as I'm concerned, that's half way there. :) >> >> Dan Zuras wrote: >> > I'll tell you what, a bunch of the Group70 >> people are getting >> > together this Thursday 4/14 at 5:30 at a >> pizza joint in Santa >> > Clara called Last Chance. It is not far from >> our old shop >> > near the corner of De La Cruz & Aldo & can be >> found on this >> > map: >> > >> > http://group70.org/images/mapg70.gif >> > >> >> A couple of you were interested in meeting with the >> Group >> 70 folks, this would be a good time. The general >> location >> is in that light industrial area just north of the San >> Jose >> airport. >> >> Gary >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Make Yahoo! your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From pkohlmil at best.com Mon Apr 11 23:41:54 2005 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Message-ID: <000a01c53f2a$b8ba2370$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> Howdy, The May issue of the Ephemeris can be proofread at http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0505/EphMay05.pdf Please note a couple of boilerplate changes: the list of officers and directors on page 7 and the start time for board meetings on page 1. Feel free to send any and all comments. Thanks, Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20050411/eb32ad41/attachment.html From jvn at svpal.org Tue Apr 12 00:20:27 2005 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris References: <000a01c53f2a$b8ba2370$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <425B76BB.6672@svpal.org> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > The May issue of the Ephemeris can be proofread at > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0505/EphMay05.pdf Two nits: Pg.1 -- May 21 meeting should name the speaker, and point to the article on page 5. Pg.5, 3rd column -- the headline should have May 21 date. Not a nit, but a comment: Pg. 6, election of officers. Thanks for adding the description of BobH's contributions. I should have thought of that! My apologies to Bob. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From north at znet.com Tue Apr 12 14:01:35 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <000a01c53f2a$b8ba2370$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> References: <000a01c53f2a$b8ba2370$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <81e9065739ac2ace50cf8780d6080ec3@znet.com> For some reason there are no paragraph indents any more. For those given to double-spacing between paragraphs, that's probably fine. But in particularly it turns my own column into an even more incomprehensible mush than it was when I submitted it. Tres chic, perhaps, but maybe not good nutzenboltz. Dave North From areopagus125 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 12 20:35:13 2005 From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050413033513.52348.qmail@web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Paul. I have two items. 1. In the Activities Calendar on the front page, it would be good to add "Naishi Min speaks on ancient Chinese astronomy" to the May 21 general meeting item. 2. I guess I didn't catch my repetition. In the first full sentence below the picture of Naishi Min, I wrote: "A historian with interest in new ways of visually explaining astronomy in new ways, Naishi..." Let's delete the second "in new ways". Thanks. -- David --- Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Howdy, > The May issue of the Ephemeris can be proofread at > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0505/EphMay05.pdf > Please note a couple of boilerplate changes: the > list of officers and directors on page 7 and the > start time for board meetings on page 1. > Feel free to send any and all comments. > Thanks, > Paul and Mary Kohlmiller> _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 13 13:20:29 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris References: <000a01c53f2a$b8ba2370$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <00d301c54067$0fcc17d0$4e179a0a@roblaptop> Two small changes. First, I would change the caption on the first picture to mention that the sun was already in the clouds. Second, Folks who have read the article on the boat argue that I could not have put on solar glasses AND see what I saw. I must have just looked up. So I would change "I forgot about my telescope, put on my solar viewers, and just scanned the skies hoping for a miracle. A deathly quiet descended on the ship." to "I forgot about my telescope and just looked up at the skies hoping for a miracle. A deathly quiet descended on the ship." feel free to adjust the words to minimize the impact on the layout. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kohlmiller To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:41 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Howdy, The May issue of the Ephemeris can be proofread at http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0505/EphMay05.pdf Please note a couple of boilerplate changes: the list of officers and directors on page 7 and the start time for board meetings on page 1. Feel free to send any and all comments. Thanks, Paul and Mary Kohlmiller ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20050413/957c3ddf/attachment.html From pkohlmil at best.com Wed Apr 13 21:33:45 2005 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris - 2nd notice Message-ID: <001501c540ab$26a770a0$0200a8c0@PKHPXPP> Excuse the interruption - I made a few more changes than usual since the last version. Also, in my previous e-mail I didn't say when the newsletter is going to the printer. I intend to send it Thursday morning around 9 A.M. If you want to check it over and send comments to me before then you can find it at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0505/EphMay05.pdf PK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20050413/d96ee5e9/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun Apr 17 18:32:22 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] I'm back Message-ID: <20050418013230.C6DBB80B6@mail.whiteoaks.com> I got back this afternoon. I need to get the mailbox key and any accumulated mail. There are also a couple of S&T problems to work. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 19 01:05:17 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Group 70 meeting Message-ID: <4264BBBD.4050107@aenet.net> The meeting I had with Group 70 was fairly low key. I was the only one from SJAA. Their main interest with the scope is that it be for amateur use. That is, they don't have a problem with professionals or astronomy grad students using it for serious projects, just as long as remains primarily an amateur instrument. They want it to be open to all amateurs. I mentioned a few of the questions that were asked at the last SJAA board meeting. One was what their attitude would be regarding other scopes being at the site, even permanently mounted scopes. They were only concerned about practical matters, such as: they wouldn't want someone to install a scope right under the path of their scope making heat currents... Except for reasonable things like that, they're perfectly fine with others being at the same site. I even mentioned the possibility that should the parks depart push FPOA to the point of them pulling their 30" out, maybe they could also move it to our site. Group 70's response to that was maybe we could join both big scopes like the Keck interferometer. :) The topic of liability insurance is a scary question mark. They're having to struggle with money just like the rest of us. They want to retain ownership of the scope in case the land owner (us, or whomever if we should sell) turned sour on them and they had to pull out. This came from the problems FPOA is having. They want to have a library of photo plates taken by the scope available. They want it to be robotically controlled so people could use it remotely or automatically when it isn't being used by anyone at the site. They seemed to be pretty easy going about the whole thing, no major demands or conditions, other than the sort of things mentioned above. There are still a lot of loose strings and unanswered questions. They're pretty much just going along taking things one at a time as they come up. That was pretty much all I got at this meeting... not counting the pizza. :) I mentioned the possibility they could visit us during our board meeting (to answer questions or whatever). They would like to. We should schedule some time and invite them. Dan Zuras is the president. (president@group70.org) Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Apr 19 18:20:10 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Membership counts for April 05 Message-ID: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> Our current membership count held at 303, but only because we added two additional complementary members. Last SJAA Meeting 3/26/2005 Report Date 4/19/2005 expired 37 February-05 8 March-05 5 April-05 10 May-05 17 June-05 44 July-05 13 August-05 20 September-05 21 October-05 19 November-05 10 December-05 16 January-06 21 February-06 18 March-06 21 April-06 9 May-06 3 more than 13 months 35 complementary 26 expiring 13 paid(current) 277 email delivery 12 Labels Generated 304 S&T Members 162 New Members since last meeting 3 current + complementary 303 Combined Current Paid Complementary New Members 2/20/2002 292 276 16 4/19/2002 289 273 16 5/13/2002 274 6/20/2002 288 7/26/2002 291 9/18/2002 305 10/16/2002 285 12/18/2002 320 2/24/2003 322 3/20/2003 336 4/15/2003 334 5/15/2003 333 9/13/2003 357 10/9/2003 347 4/13/2004 345 7/24/2004 342 8/26/2004 332 9/24/2004 333 10/26/2004 333 11/18/2004 324 12/15/2004 311 285 26 11 1/19/2005 308 284 24 5 2/23/2005 304 279 25 3 3/25/2005 303 279 24 5 4/19/2005 303 277 26 3 Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Tue Apr 19 20:20:56 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, and I keep looking around for a link. Do we still not have one? Dave From pkohlmil at best.com Tue Apr 19 23:11:45 2005 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> Message-ID: <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Dave, I just used http://www.sjaa.net/SJAAmembership.html to send in my renewal. If I hear that it works and is acceptable to the board I'll put a link to this page from http://www.sjaa.net/member.html if that's okay. We were waiting till Rob came back so I knew this issue would reappear shortly. Paul K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave North" To: "Business list for SJAA board of directors and members" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:20 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link > Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, and > I keep looking around for a link. > Do we still not have one? > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From bill at nineplanets.org Tue Apr 19 23:30:45 2005 From: bill at nineplanets.org (Bill Arnett) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <8e52e10b8b1515b829f9fbd9070b0a1c@nineplanets.org> May I also suggest that SJAA get a Google AdSense account and start running a few ads to make a few bucks: https://www.google.com/adsense -- Bill Arnett bill@nineplanets.org http://bill.nineplanets.org/ Emerald Hills CA USA 37 27 N 122 15 W From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 20 00:26:31 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> Message-ID: <42660427.6070600@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, and > I keep looking around for a link. > Do we still not have one? Until the link officially opens, anyone can send a payment via PayPal to payment@sjaa.net. Make sure your name is included if it's just a renewal. For new memberships or if any of your info has changed, that needs to be included too. Gary > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 08:16:54 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> I have a couple of other post-vacation items to work on before I return to this. I am very much in favor of adding PayPal as an option. We need to redo the buttons as encrypted buttons. This is a small change in the generation process that prevents the exchange from being spoofed. We also need to decide how we are going to handle the PayPal fee. In most cases the organization charges a small convenience fee to the underlying price. Multiple year subscriptions are still an outstanding issue. I am warming to Mike's suggestion to offer a 3 year S&T membership with a single up front payment. That will allow us to send the S&T checks automatically and on time. The only problem is that members will still get reminders from S&T. We already informally offer multiple year regular memberships, although we don't publish this. We could also formalize that. I am hoping we can announce the PayPal page in the next Ephemeris. Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Paul Kohlmiller Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:12 PM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Paypal link Dave, I just used http://www.sjaa.net/SJAAmembership.html to send in my renewal. If I hear that it works and is acceptable to the board I'll put a link to this page from http://www.sjaa.net/member.html if that's okay. We were waiting till Rob came back so I knew this issue would reappear shortly. Paul K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave North" To: "Business list for SJAA board of directors and members" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:20 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link > Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, and > I keep looking around for a link. > Do we still not have one? > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 08:32:59 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <42660427.6070600@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20050420153340.709317AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> The link that Paul is working requires a shipping address. I would appreciate if everyone would hold off a couple of weeks until everything is set up. Dave I just processed your renewal yesterday. Sending the acknowledgments is another item on my list. Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Gary Mitchell Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:27 AM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Paypal link Dave North wrote: > Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, > and I keep looking around for a link. > Do we still not have one? Until the link officially opens, anyone can send a payment via PayPal to payment@sjaa.net. Make sure your name is included if it's just a renewal. For new memberships or if any of your info has changed, that needs to be included too. Gary > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From north at znet.com Wed Apr 20 08:54:48 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <84275e7d7ef2a17a8a5f3494d7c54cbd@znet.com> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Dave, I just used http://www.sjaa.net/SJAAmembership.html to send in my > renewal. If I hear that it works and is acceptable to the board I'll > put a > link Looks good to me except for the weird redirect to confirm email ... ? Dave North From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 09:16:01 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] not from me!! Message-ID: <20050420161605.41CF87E2C@mail.whiteoaks.com> Both Dave North and I received a message this morning asking that we confirm our email addresses. It was NOT from me or membership@sjaa.net. Can anyone send me the original message including message headers? You can get these by using options on Windows mail servers These are the headers on the message I received from Paul. Status: U Return-Path: Received: from mail.whiteoaks.com ([66.15.94.96]) by mx-a065a28.pas.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1do8nY66a3NZFpF0 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.whiteoaks.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 89D367E03; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: membership@sjaa.net Delivered-To: sjaa-membership@mail.whiteoaks.com X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.5.3 Received: from softwarerepair.com (softwarerepair.com [130.94.225.245]) by mail.whiteoaks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9B47DFE for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 70039 invoked by uid 25077); 20 Apr 2005 06:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SJWSLAPTOPPK) ([216.139.62.16]) (envelope-sender ) by 130.94.225.245 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Apr 2005 06:08:19 -0000 Message-ID: <004a01c5456f$5b52b300$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> From: "Paul Kohlmiller" To: Subject: [SJAA Membership] Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:08:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01C54534.AE7FBC70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on monrovia.whiteoaks.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_BY_IP autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-ELNK-AV: 0 Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Wed Apr 20 09:18:12 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <862afb72ab89e9ba59b63f37c75bfc00@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > We need to redo the buttons as encrypted buttons. This is a small > change in > the generation process that prevents the exchange from being spoofed. Good! > We also need to decide how we are going to handle the PayPal fee. In > most > cases the organization charges a small convenience fee to the > underlying > price. This may make sense in an organization that is pressed for dollars. I even doubt most members would mind. But SJAA is so wildly successful and so well supported by its membership that this doesn't seem right to me. > Multiple year subscriptions are still an outstanding issue. I am > warming to > Mike's suggestion to offer a 3 year S&T membership with a single up > front > payment. That will allow us to send the S&T checks automatically and > on > time. The only problem is that members will still get reminders from > S&T. One of the reasons S&T does not do this: members quit. The incentive to remain a member disappears, unless we also want to police resignations and send the money back. > We already informally offer multiple year regular memberships, > although we > don't publish this. We could also formalize that. A very good idea. > I am hoping we can announce the PayPal page in the next Ephemeris. Another very good idea. It doesn't have to be perfect to announce or link it; it just has to work. Item #1 is the only one that strikes me as important at this point. Dave North From north at znet.com Wed Apr 20 09:24:55 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] not from me!! In-Reply-To: <20050420161605.41CF87E2C@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420161605.41CF87E2C@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <9480dfd33a1ade5e600c553e0e98a1cb@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > Both Dave North and I received a message this morning asking that we > confirm > our email addresses. It was NOT from me or membership@sjaa.net. Actually in my case it was from a web page that paypal redirects to: http://www.sjaa.net/thank_you_for_paying.htm?=Return+To+Merchant Which has on it a link that fires off: mailto:membership@sjaa.net?subject=[SJAA Membership]&body=Just send this e-mail or verify your address by adding it below The page can be viewed by anyone. It's coded into the paypal process somehow (by somebody). Dave From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 10:21:08 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] Mystery solved In-Reply-To: <9480dfd33a1ade5e600c553e0e98a1cb@znet.com> Message-ID: <20050420172116.841A81B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> Then I know what this is. When I did my experiment with PayPal in March I created another PayPal email address. That was a mistake. This needs to be deleted, but to delete it I need to know the full number of our checking account. So Gary needs to handle this or we need to wait until I get another statement in the mail. The bottom line is that Paul's PayPal page is not yet ready for production use. Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Dave North Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:25 AM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] not from me!! Rob Hawley wrote: > Both Dave North and I received a message this morning asking that we > confirm our email addresses. It was NOT from me or > membership@sjaa.net. Actually in my case it was from a web page that paypal redirects to: http://www.sjaa.net/thank_you_for_paying.htm?=Return+To+Merchant Which has on it a link that fires off: mailto:membership@sjaa.net?subject=[SJAA Membership]&body=Just send this e-mail or verify your address by adding it below The page can be viewed by anyone. It's coded into the paypal process somehow (by somebody). Dave _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 10:33:00 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <862afb72ab89e9ba59b63f37c75bfc00@znet.com> Message-ID: <20050420173304.A3BEA1B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> >> We also need to decide how we are going to handle the PayPal fee. In >> most cases the organization charges a small convenience fee to the >> underlying price. >This may make sense in an organization that is pressed for dollars. >I even doubt most members would mind. But SJAA is so wildly successful >and so well supported by its membership that this doesn't seem right to me. At this point it looks like PayPal could save me some time, particularly if we implement multiple year memberships. I might consider reimbursing the club for these fees. >> Multiple year subscriptions are still an outstanding issue. I am >> warming to Mike's suggestion to offer a 3 year S&T membership with a >> single up front payment. That will allow us to send the S&T checks >> automatically and on time. The only problem is that members will >> still get reminders from S&T. >One of the reasons S&T does not do this: members quit. The incentive to >remain a member disappears, unless we also want to police resignations >and send the money back. This would be a multiple year club and S&T membership. Once purchased you would be a member for 3 years. The board would not normally refund the money any more than a magazine would. If the member moved out of the area we would continue to process his S&T subscription. We already have members from out of state. Another issue of the multiple year subscriptions is how to handle an increase in S&T subscription. Mike's suggestion (which I agree with) is that the club eat any increase. Since only a maximum of 2 years would remain on any renewing subscription the amount would be manageable. If anyone feels this is too restrictive then I suggest they stick with an annual subscription. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Wed Apr 20 11:09:03 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <20050420173304.A3BEA1B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420173304.A3BEA1B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <22f394479c2aac51f2c5b68c48f614ef@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > This would be a multiple year club and S&T membership. Once purchased > you > would be a member for 3 years. Of course! Sorry, just me being a bonehead. Dave From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 20 14:43:12 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <84275e7d7ef2a17a8a5f3494d7c54cbd@znet.com> References: <20050420012015.32FF47B37@mail.whiteoaks.com> <6bf1e47836d8e14babb77dffd64da23e@znet.com> <004b01c5456f$d4a97950$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> <84275e7d7ef2a17a8a5f3494d7c54cbd@znet.com> Message-ID: <4266CCF0.1010405@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > >> Dave, I just used http://www.sjaa.net/SJAAmembership.html to send in my >> renewal. If I hear that it works and is acceptable to the board I'll >> put a >> link > > > Looks good to me except for the weird redirect to confirm email ... ? > > > Dave North Yeah, that turned out to be a little bit of a problem for me, with aenet.net's spam filter. Payments made directly to payment@sjaa.net seem to come through, but the others apparently are redirected from another address, nobody@whiteoaks.com. I just cleared that one, so I should receive those now. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 20 14:48:56 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <4266CE48.2020106@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: [snip] Oh goodie, yet a new address for my ISP's spam filter: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net. :) Is this really needed? I didn't see Paul's post as a result. Thanks for copying it below, Rob. Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On > Behalf Of Paul Kohlmiller > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:12 PM > To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Paypal link > > Dave, I just used http://www.sjaa.net/SJAAmembership.html to send in my > renewal. If I hear that it works and is acceptable to the board I'll put a > link to this page from http://www.sjaa.net/member.html if that's okay. We > were waiting till Rob came back so I knew this issue would reappear shortly. > Paul K > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave North" > To: "Business list for SJAA board of directors and members" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:20 PM > Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link > > > >>Ya know, I was going to pay for this year's membership with paypal, and >>I keep looking around for a link. >>Do we still not have one? >> >> >>Dave >> >>_______________________________________________ >>SJAABoard mailing list >>SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 20 15:11:42 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Paypal link In-Reply-To: <862afb72ab89e9ba59b63f37c75bfc00@znet.com> References: <20050420151702.D28277AD8@mail.whiteoaks.com> <862afb72ab89e9ba59b63f37c75bfc00@znet.com> Message-ID: <4266D39E.4050403@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: >> We also need to decide how we are going to handle the PayPal fee. In >> most >> cases the organization charges a small convenience fee to the underlying >> price. > > > This may make sense in an organization that is pressed for dollars. I > even doubt most members would mind. But SJAA is so wildly successful and > so well supported by its membership that this doesn't seem right to me. Well, not so fast. We are not *currently* hurting, but that could change. If we were making money hand over fist, then you'd have a good point. Since I became treasurer, our accounts have stayed roughly the same. And let's not forget our insurance recently went way up, just that cost alone is now over five bucks per member. Bottom line: At this point, we can afford to eat PayPal's fee. OTOH, I don't see anything wrong with asking the payer to cover the transaction costs. At a mere $15, our dues are pretty cheap already. How about a compromise, we split the transaction cost? Gary > >> Multiple year subscriptions are still an outstanding issue. I am >> warming to >> Mike's suggestion to offer a 3 year S&T membership with a single up front >> payment. That will allow us to send the S&T checks automatically and on >> time. The only problem is that members will still get reminders from >> S&T. > > > One of the reasons S&T does not do this: members quit. The incentive to > remain a member disappears, unless we also want to police resignations > and send the money back. > >> We already informally offer multiple year regular memberships, >> although we >> don't publish this. We could also formalize that. > > > A very good idea. > >> I am hoping we can announce the PayPal page in the next Ephemeris. > > > Another very good idea. It doesn't have to be perfect to announce or > link it; it just has to work. Item #1 is the only one that strikes me as > important at this point. > > > Dave North > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 20 15:16:50 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] Mystery solved In-Reply-To: <20050420172116.841A81B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050420172116.841A81B2A@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <4266D4D2.8010507@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > Then I know what this is. > > When I did my experiment with PayPal in March I created another PayPal email > address. That was a mistake. This needs to be deleted, but to delete it I > need to know the full number of our checking account. > > So Gary needs to handle this or we need to wait until I get another > statement in the mail. What's this now, you set up a new PayPal account? What do you mean "full number" of our checking account, the account number or that beginning deposit PayPal makes? Gary > The bottom line is that Paul's PayPal page is not yet ready for production > use. > > > > Rob Hawley > -----Original Message----- > From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On > Behalf Of Dave North > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Re:[SJAA Membership] not from me!! > > Rob Hawley wrote: > > >>Both Dave North and I received a message this morning asking that we >>confirm our email addresses. It was NOT from me or >>membership@sjaa.net. > > > Actually in my case it was from a web page that paypal redirects to: > > http://www.sjaa.net/thank_you_for_paying.htm?=Return+To+Merchant > > Which has on it a link that fires off: > > mailto:membership@sjaa.net?subject=[SJAA Membership]&body=Just send this > e-mail or verify your address by adding it below > > The page can be viewed by anyone. It's coded into the paypal process somehow > (by somebody). > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri Apr 22 13:07:42 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] I agree with Mike's Multi year membership Proposal Message-ID: <20050422200746.CEE5C8658@mail.whiteoaks.com> After some reflection Mike has convinced me that his multiple year membership proposal deserves a trial. To summarize he is proposing that we offer a 3 year membership at 3x the current single year price. We already offer (informally) multi year memberships for non S&T members. This would formalize that process. The following caveats apply: 1. We cannot guarantee that members will not receive reminder notices from S&T. I would send the renewals in about 6 months before the expiration to try to prevent these. Also a sharp eyed member may notice their S&T subscription is only one year. Proper management of expectations should resolve both of these problems. 2. The club is at risk if S&T raises its subscription rate. With inflation picking up this is a virtual certainty. The club would be fully at risk. 3. The club should put the additional year funds into an escrow account. I will pass along an advertisement for ING Direct offering a savings account that pays greater than 2%. The earning from this account will defray some of the risk of item 2. 4.We would insure that S&T renewals occurred on time. Also we would not have to chase members down every year with email reminders. These are the two most time consuming parts of the Membership Chairman's job. 5. This may also be a good time to review our own rates. I expect our own publishing costs to rise this year as well. If we agree then I would like to announce this at the same time we announce PayPal subscriptions. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Apr 22 23:11:01 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] I agree with Mike's Multi year membership Proposal In-Reply-To: <20050422200746.CEE5C8658@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050422200746.CEE5C8658@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <4269E6F5.8090409@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > 1. We cannot guarantee that members will not receive reminder notices from > S&T. I would send the renewals in about 6 months before the expiration to > try to prevent these. Also a sharp eyed member may notice their S&T > subscription is only one year. Proper management of expectations should > resolve both of these problems. We simply have to make it clear that it is SJAA who is doing the three year deal, and that they will have to watch the expiration date on their Ephemeris, not S&T. > 2. The club is at risk if S&T raises its subscription rate. With inflation > picking up this is a virtual certainty. The club would be fully at risk. We can either eat the increase, or notify members when it happens and perhaps ask them to make up the difference. If we decide on the latter, we'll have to make that policy clear up front. > 3. The club should put the additional year funds into an escrow account. I > will pass along an advertisement for ING Direct offering a savings account > that pays greater than 2%. The earning from this account will defray some > of the risk of item 2. Is there a minimum balance on that account? > If we agree then I would like to announce this at the same time we announce > PayPal subscriptions. There's no reason we should go out of our way to do both at the same time, is there? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Apr 24 22:16:38 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] preliminary auction results Message-ID: <426C7D36.3010403@aenet.net> This is a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation just to give the board an idea how we did. Eventually everything will be properly entered and compared with the results from Jim's auction program, (which *hopefully* will agree). Incoming: 1189.00 cash 7275.30 checks Outgoing: 6690.05 checks Auction Net: 1774.25 Swap: 120.25 (including 60.75 from donated items) Grand total net: $1894.50 As is usually the case, most of the auction proceeds also came from donated items. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind folks that if it weren't for this annual fund raiser, our accounts would be dwindling. As it is, they're staying the same or inching upward. Our dues aren't enough to cover everything. Just our liability insurance premium last year alone cost us over $1600. So, this is important. Just for fun... We have about 300 members. At $15 dues each, that's $4500. If we didn't do the auction/swap, we'd have to charge about $21 dues to cover the difference. It was a long day for some of us. Thanks to everyone who helped make it possible. Gary Mitchell Treasurer From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Apr 24 22:30:06 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA observatory fund suggestion Message-ID: <426C805E.1080805@aenet.net> Our checking account is doing OK, after the auction/swap settles in, roughly $15,000. We've been talking about getting a site for an observatory for a long time, (recently even including Group 70). Our observatory fund is under $3000 and hasn't had any contributions for a long time. How about we make a "donation" from our general (checking) fund into the observatory fund? Maybe $5000? More? (Theoretically, money put into the observatory fund should stay there... except for spending on an observatory.) Gary From jvn at svpal.org Tue Apr 26 01:55:54 2005 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Absence Message-ID: <426E021A.3CC@svpal.org> Hi, All, Don and Joan are here, and we've planned a three-day to Sutter Creek, leaving Tuesday and returning Thursday. The Bus is in the shop at least through Tuesday, but no matter as we've found a way to use the loaner vehicle. After that, they will stay with Janelle in Monterey over the weekend, but I don't yet know the full schedule; I will bring them down on Friday sometime, then return to San Jose until Sunday or Monday. Next week will have some day trips, then a large birthday party here at the house. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 27 02:37:20 2005 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] corrected auction/swap results Message-ID: <426F5D50.9010703@aenet.net> OK, after carefully going over everything, we have some corrections... According to Jim's program, we took in $7930.30 and paid out $6690.05, for a net of $1240.25 at the auction. My amounts (corrected) are: incoming $7939.30 and paid out $6990.05. For a net of $1249.25. Jim's program (and probably Jim himself) didn't know about a few donations people threw in ($9), which accounts for that. Eagle-eyed Mike Koop noticed a discrepancy of around $500 between Jim's program output and my preliminary figures. I had trouble finding out what happened there, but finally tracked it down: A PERIOD... A DOT... A mere spec of ink hiding right up against the relative giant whirlwind of a zero! In my haste that night in adding things up, I neglected to notice the decimal point in my chicken scratchings on one figure. What I thought was 500 actually was 5.00. :/ So, we didn't do quite as well as I thought, but still, $1249.25 is nothing to sneeze at. It was a good auction. Adding $120.25 in commissions and sales the club made of some donated items at the modest swap afterward increases our total take for the day to: $1369.50 For those who don't care about more of the nitty gritty, you can stop here. ================= My last message indicated $1774.25 net from the auction. Subtracting the actual (corrected) amount of $1249.25 gives a difference of $525. Originally included was all of the checks--one of which was $25 for the swap. And one person wrote a combined check for her auction payment and $5 for her swap commission--all of which was added to my auction figures. So, that leaves a discrepancy of $495. And that brings us back to that pesky decimal point... Misreading 5.00 as 500 becomes that $495. (Get it? I did not add 5, like I should have; but *did* add 500, which I should not have.) So, when you guys see me sometimes getting nit picky about keeping certain records, wanting forms filled out, etc, etc... Please just remember--I have my reasons. ;) Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 09:59:49 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) Message-ID: <20050430165958.1ECB187D0@mail.whiteoaks.com> A very RAW copy of my thoughts circulated earlier in the week. The following represents my more considered opinion. -------------------------------------------- I would like to offer my observations on several problems I noted at the auction and suggest some ways to solve them in the future. Problems I noted: 1. A lot of folks registered items late. Since our present method of conducting the auction requires real-time entry of the sales, we had to delay the start of the auction. 2. There were a couple of data entry errors. None were serious. Our procedures were sufficient to catch what went wrong and fix it. The length of the auction and the single, short break left everyone a tad short tempered and (speaking for myself) a tad fuzzy on concentration. 3. A number of people wanted to leave before the beginning of the auction. We did have a 1/2 time break, but processing these almost prevented a rest break for Jim. After the break we were not able to process further checkouts until the auction was finished. 4. A show of hands at the beginning of the auction showed that no one came due to the Mercury News ad. We had a SRO attendance due to Mike's efforts to get the word out electronically. We should not pay for ads in the future. Jim's Program is "Mission Critical": We currently use a custom program that was built by Jim and that has served the club for many years. I believe we should continue to use that program. Having said that it means this program has become a "Mission Critical" application for our largest money making operation of the year. That is if we cannot use this program we cannot conduct the auction. In business any application that is Mission Critical must a) Be backed up (preferably in multiple physical places) so we do not have to rely on a single copy, or access to a single location. b) Multiple people need to be able to operate it c) It must operate on more than a single piece of hardware. I would be most comfortable if the program operated on any commonly available windows laptop (in DOS mode). At present I believe these concerns are not generally met. Over the next year we need to work with Jim to make sure each of these concerns are addressed. I believe the SJAA database (another mission critical app that I maintain) meets each of these criteria. Solutions to Observed Problems: I would like to address items 1, 2, and 3 since they had the biggest impact on our customers. I don't believe that the program directly contributed to any problems in the operation of the auction. Jim has helped the club tremendously by his willingness to run the program. I do believe that asking Jim to solely operate it for the entire period of the auction is not only unreasonable, but probably violates a bunch of OSHA regs. It is my feeling that some changes in procedure will make future auctions not only run smoother, but with less wear and tear on the participants. There are three basic types of changes I would like to see happen A) Take turns with the data entry so no one gets burned out B) Close acceptance of new items some minutes before the beginning of the auction. C) Decouple data entry with the operation of the auction. A: From my own experience in recording the results on paper it would be desirable to have two people alternate in recording the auction results. After an hour of recording the results on paper I was starting to lose focus. I believe that it would be less stressful for everyone if we took turns on the data entry. I would recommend not more than 1/2 hour shifts. We will have a training issue here if we are going to accomplish this. I had a hard time following how to switch between the various modes of Jim's program; however, once in a data entry mode using the program was very straightforward. When we address mission critical concern b above, then multiple people should be able to fully run the program. B: We were still accepting new items to sell at the point the auction was beginning. The result was that we had to delay the auction start until all of the data entry was made. My first thought was to devise a means to allow the auction to proceed under these conditions, but I now think a better idea is to simply withdraw the seller registration forms minutes before the beginning. That will give a better chance that all of the data entry will be completed before the auction begins. C: We use a recorder who makes a paper record of what happens during the auction and a data entry person to record them in the program. I prefer this being done serially, but we could do this in parallel as Jim and I did during the last auction. The important thing, coupled with suggestion A, is that people with fresh minds are making a simple paper record of what is happening. A paper record is not prone to the types of errors that occur in live data entry. One question that relates to Mission Critical Concern (c) is the requirement for a logging printer. Jim's program provides an excellent disk log of what happened with the data entry. This was extremely useful and was consulted during the auction while the logging printer was not. But the log file is only a log of what Jim typed and not what happened during the auction. The paper record should be considered the authoritative record of what happened during the auction. This is going to be the most controversial of the changes since it is the largest change in the current auction procedures. When coupled with suggestion A it has the best chance of insuring the auction is accurately recorded. The operation of the auction requires detailed item information. Jim's program currently requires him to use the sell procedure to display this information. If we could instead print this information then the data recorder could use the printed item descriptions while the auction was proceeding. Again this would decouple the data entry with the operation of the auction. It would mean that if we fall behind on our initial data entry that Jim could prioritize the registration of items (as he did) and then register buyers and allow the auction to begin. If we did not rely on the data entry person to maintain our real-time log of the auction, then he would be free to check people out if they wanted to leave early. I know others have various opinions on whether this is even desirable. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Sat Apr 30 10:20:27 2005 From: rnapo at znet.com (rnapo) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) References: <20050430165958.1ECB187D0@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <003101c54da8$e7c52a70$4cf61345@RNDell1> Hi Rob and Board, The comments I've heard about the SJAA auction from people attending have been very positive. I may not have read the notice about the auction very carefully, however, I think it would help to put it in the next auction notice the following in the form of BULLET points. All I noticed this year was a start time was 1pm so I didn't have time to look at anything before the auction started. 1. Time to bring in articles for auction 2. Time when people can start looking at items prior to the auction (bidding) 3. Time the bidding starts. 4. Note that after the auction there will be a swap meet. (If there will be a swap meet) All the best, Rich > A very RAW copy of my thoughts circulated earlier in the week. The > following represents my more considered opinion. > > -------------------------------------------- > > I would like to offer my observations on several problems I noted at the > auction and suggest some ways to solve them in the future. > > Problems I noted: > > 1. A lot of folks registered items late. Since our present method > of conducting the auction requires real-time entry of the sales, we had to > delay the start of the auction. > > 2. There were a couple of data entry errors. None were serious. Our > procedures were sufficient to catch what went wrong and fix it. The length > of the auction and the single, short break left everyone a tad short > tempered and (speaking for myself) a tad fuzzy on concentration. > > 3. A number of people wanted to leave before the beginning of the > auction. We did have a 1/2 time break, but processing these almost > prevented a rest break for Jim. After the break we were not able to process > further checkouts until the auction was finished. > > 4. A show of hands at the beginning of the auction showed that no > one came due to the Mercury News ad. We had a SRO attendance due to Mike's > efforts to get the word out electronically. We should not pay for ads in the > future. > > > Jim's Program is "Mission Critical": > > > We currently use a custom program that was built by Jim and that has served > the club for many years. I believe we should continue to use that program. > Having said that it means this program has become a "Mission Critical" > application for our largest money making operation of the year. That is if > we cannot use this program we cannot conduct the auction. In business any > application that is Mission Critical must > > a) Be backed up (preferably in multiple physical places) so we do > not have to rely on a single copy, or access to a single location. > > b) Multiple people need to be able to operate it > > c) It must operate on more than a single piece of hardware. I would > be most comfortable if the program operated on any commonly available > windows laptop (in DOS mode). > > At present I believe these concerns are not generally met. Over the next > year we need to work with Jim to make sure each of these concerns are > addressed. I believe the SJAA database (another mission critical app that I > maintain) meets each of these criteria. > > > Solutions to Observed Problems: > > I would like to address items 1, 2, and 3 since they had the biggest impact > on our customers. I don't believe that the program directly contributed to > any problems in the operation of the auction. Jim has helped the club > tremendously by his willingness to run the program. I do believe that asking > Jim to solely operate it for the entire period of the auction is not only > unreasonable, but probably violates a bunch of OSHA regs. It is my feeling > that some changes in procedure will make future auctions not only run > smoother, but with less wear and tear on the participants. There are three > basic types of changes I would like to see happen > > A) Take turns with the data entry so no one gets burned out > > B) Close acceptance of new items some minutes before the beginning > of the auction. > > C) Decouple data entry with the operation of the auction. > > > > A: From my own experience in recording the results on paper it would be > desirable to have two people alternate in recording the auction results. > After an hour of recording the results on paper I was starting to lose > focus. I believe that it would be less stressful for everyone if we took > turns on the data entry. I would recommend not more than 1/2 hour shifts. We > will have a training issue here if we are going to accomplish this. I had a > hard time following how to switch between the various modes of Jim's > program; however, once in a data entry mode using the program was very > straightforward. When we address mission critical concern b above, then > multiple people should be able to fully run the program. > > B: We were still accepting new items to sell at the point the auction was > beginning. The result was that we had to delay the auction start until all > of the data entry was made. My first thought was to devise a means to allow > the auction to proceed under these conditions, but I now think a better idea > is to simply withdraw the seller registration forms minutes before the > beginning. That will give a better chance that all of the data entry will > be completed before the auction begins. > > C: We use a recorder who makes a paper record of what happens during the > auction and a data entry person to record them in the program. I prefer > this being done serially, but we could do this in parallel as Jim and I did > during the last auction. The important thing, coupled with suggestion A, is > that people with fresh minds are making a simple paper record of what is > happening. A paper record is not prone to the types of errors that occur in > live data entry. > > One question that relates to Mission Critical Concern (c) is the requirement > for a logging printer. Jim's program provides an excellent disk log of what > happened with the data entry. This was extremely useful and was consulted > during the auction while the logging printer was not. But the log file is > only a log of what Jim typed and not what happened during the auction. The > paper record should be considered the authoritative record of what happened > during the auction. This is going to be the most controversial of the > changes since it is the largest change in the current auction procedures. > When coupled with suggestion A it has the best chance of insuring the > auction is accurately recorded. > > > The operation of the auction requires detailed item information. Jim's > program currently requires him to use the sell procedure to display this > information. If we could instead print this information then the data > recorder could use the printed item descriptions while the auction was > proceeding. Again this would decouple the data entry with the operation of > the auction. It would mean that if we fall behind on our initial data entry > that Jim could prioritize the registration of items (as he did) and then > register buyers and allow the auction to begin. > > If we did not rely on the data entry person to maintain our real-time log of > the auction, then he would be free to check people out if they wanted to > leave early. I know others have various opinions on whether this is even > desirable. > > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 12:23:37 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) In-Reply-To: <003101c54da8$e7c52a70$4cf61345@RNDell1> Message-ID: <20050430192342.05FC07BB9@mail.whiteoaks.com> >4. Note that after the auction there will be a swap meet. (If there will be a swap meet) One of the points that have been kicked around is to only have the swap meet in November. After sitting at the auction for 4 hours most people left as soon as they were checked out. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Sat Apr 30 12:33:25 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) In-Reply-To: <20050430192342.05FC07BB9@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050430192342.05FC07BB9@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: Rob Hawley wrote: > One of the points that have been kicked around is to only have the > swap meet > in November. After sitting at the auction for 4 hours most people > left as > soon as they were checked out. I've often thought decoupling them completely is the only fair thing to do. Many people around here might recall that when it was "swap then auction" the auction was feeble and considered for discontinuation. After it was moved first, though, it became huge again and the swap became feeble. The only problem I have with the idea is the swap in November seems to not be working out all that well (at least from my point of view). Dave North From rnapo at znet.com Sat Apr 30 12:50:45 2005 From: rnapo at znet.com (rnapo) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) References: <20050430192342.05FC07BB9@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <000601c54dbd$e6a7c700$cbf61345@RNDell1> After the auction I thought of some things I could have tried to sell. What about a swap meet in May prior to RTMC. It is only a month after the auction but I think it would work. Rich > Rob Hawley wrote: > > > One of the points that have been kicked around is to only have the > > swap meet > > in November. After sitting at the auction for 4 hours most people > > left as > > soon as they were checked out. > > I've often thought decoupling them completely is the only fair thing to > do. Many people around here might recall that when it was "swap then > auction" the auction was feeble and considered for discontinuation. > After it was moved first, though, it became huge again and the swap > became feeble. > The only problem I have with the idea is the swap in November seems to > not be working out all that well (at least from my point of view). > > > Dave North > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Apr 30 16:53:25 2005 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: SJ Astronmical Association Talk? / Radio Astronomy & Stanford Dish Rescue Effort Message-ID: <20050430235330.646647B5E@mail.whiteoaks.com> Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lash [mailto:bob@bambi.net] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:37 PM To: robhawley@earthlink.net Subject: SJ Astronmical Association Talk? / Radio Astronomy & Stanford Dish Rescue Effort Hi Robert, Don Latham mentioned he met you on an eclipse trip (see below), and though might be interested in having a talk given to the SJ Astronomical Association about radio astronomy and the Bracewell Observatory rescue effort? I'm a past director of the Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers, and am also heading up the Bracewell Observatory rescue effort, and would be happy to give a slide talk of you are interested. Best wishes, Bob -------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lash, M.D., B.S.E.E./C.S. President Friends of the Bracewell Observatory Association 567 Canyon Road Redwood City, CA 94062 H: (650) 365-5671 M: (650) 888-2372 Fax: (650) 365-6906 Email: bob@bambi.net http://www.bambi.net/stanford_dishes/rescue.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lash" To: "Don Latham" ; "Jeffrey Lichtman" Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Potential presentation > Thanks, Don. > > I have a slide talk about both RA and the Bracewell Observarory rescue > effort that I think the SJ astronomical association would find of interest. > > Stanford's School of Engineering has restriced our access to the site > to purposes of expert inspection only for development of the proposal, > until such time as the University has accepted (or rejected) the final proposal. > > I will follow up witg Robert Hawley. > > Best wishes, > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Latham" > To: "Jeffrey Lichtman" ; > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:36 PM > Subject: Potential presentation > > > > Hi, both. I was just on an eclipse trip and ran into Robert Hawley, pres > of > > the San Jose astronomical association. He'd like to have a > > presentation on > > Radio Astronomy for the club. I told him I'd let you know and see if > > something can be arranged. > > Bob, this is really close to home, if I have it right. I suggest an > on-site > > visit to the Bracewell dishes with a talk on RA, would probably be > > beneficial to both groups? > > Rob can be reached at > > robhawley@earthlink.net > > > > Best to you, > > Don Latham > > > From jvn at svpal.org Sat Apr 30 17:13:07 2005 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] My take on the Auction Post Mortem (official version) References: <20050430165958.1ECB187D0@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <42741F13.7E2E@svpal.org> Hi, Rob and all, I have out-of-state guests, so I'm busy; but I want to address some simpler points. > In business any > application that is Mission Critical must > > a) Be backed up (preferably in multiple physical places) so we > do not have to rely on a single copy, or access to a single location. The entire thing: source, executables, operating instructions, and some version of each year (1983-2005) has been PKZIPped into < 500Kbytes. It is parked on my regular web site, and also on another run by my computer club. It's also parked (tho not as up to date) on several computers in my family. Try get AUCTION.ZIP from my sv-pal web site. I'm not sure how to do it. > b) Multiple people need to be able to operate it That's a matter of learning how to do so. A few years ago. I sent the instructions to X. Y. who had offered to help. Instead, he said "I didn't have the heart to read all that stuff." This is the wrong attitude. You will need to read all of it multiple times, and bang away on the program for a while. > c) It must operate on more than a single piece of hardware. I would > be most comfortable if the program operated on any commonly available > windows laptop (in DOS mode). I have run it in a DOS box under Win98, with one printer attached, and the audit printer dummied to a second disk file. But I continue to run it under DOS5 as that has never failed. The machine was at first an 8088 machine with 640 k of memory and three floppy disks. I wonder if it'll run on a Mac with the IBM emulator board? So far as the bottleneck prior to the auction, there is a separate (slave) version of the program that can be run on separate machine(s). So multiple people can be pounding away. Just before the auction begins, each of those slave machines must bring their floppy disk to the master machine. After that, the auction can begin with the master tracking in real time. During the auction, the most recently synchronized slave machine can register new material to already-registered people, and also to those who have late-arriver numbers. That machine could also allow early quitters to check out, provided that all their stuff has been auctioned. It would be necessary for that operator to enter all the sell transactions that are prevalent to the quitter, then enter the close (pay) transaction. Somehow all this duplicate data has to be identical to what is being done on the floor with the master machine. The synchronize routine will deal with this, but we've never done it at an actual auction. > C) Decouple data entry with the operation of the auction. This needs more study than I have time for until after my guests and also my coming vacation (back June 10). Please don't try to explain it now. Yes, I know this is already a rather long note, but I'm simply typing what I know, not trying to understand new concepts. > I had a > hard time following how to switch between the various modes of Jim's > program; however, once in a data entry mode using the program was very > straightforward. Finish the selected function, then poke the function key for the next thing. Each transaction routine has a way to be aborted. > B: We were still accepting new items to sell at the point the auction > was beginning. ... withdraw the seller registration forms > minutes before the beginning. Excellent idea! Publish a cutoff time so people know. Open an hour earlier. Oh, publish a cutoff for pre-registration, such as Friday noon. Limit number of unregistered items per seller (this may kill the whole auction). If we allow a slave machine to operate during the auction, the two machines would need to be synchronized during the break. And only after that, would the late registered material be allowed to be auctioned. Where shall we find a machine operator, number runner, and properties person to do all that? Where shall we put it, so that the ruckus does not interfere with the auction? > The important thing, coupled with suggestion A, is that people with > fresh minds are making a simple paper record of what is > happening. A paper record is not prone to the types of > errors that occur in live data entry. OH???? Pleeeeease send a double gross of those infallible pencils!! I have some check on what I'm doing at the computer: for instance, I see the buyer's name as I enter the bidder numbers. I look at the numbers on the screen and on the buyer's card, before hitting enter. I can see the item in Jay's hand, and read the description on the screen. > that Jim could prioritize the registration of items There is one fundamental error that everybody is making: that is the word "Jim" over and over. Also: you see "I" in all of my replies. I wonder what it's like to be out there among the crowd, chatting with seldom-seen friends, looking at stuff before selling begins, and simply enjoying the show? Clear Skies (and procedures!) -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From north at znet.com Sat Apr 30 18:02:30 2005 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:27 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: SJ Astronmical Association Talk? / Radio Astronomy & Stanford Dish Rescue Effort In-Reply-To: <20050430235330.646647B5E@mail.whiteoaks.com> References: <20050430235330.646647B5E@mail.whiteoaks.com> Message-ID: <9ca5984c11098f3e941a18f14176f617@znet.com> Rob Hawley forwarded: > might be interested in having a talk given to the SJ Astronomical > Association about radio astronomy and the Bracewell Observatory rescue > effort? No, not really. Dave North