From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Sat Apr 8 01:37:56 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. Message-ID: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net> As we have discussed earlyer, we have our Auction Preparation meeting today, Sat. April 8th. I suggest starting at 6 PM, just like a normal board meeting. We should be out by 9. The plan is to set up the hall and walk thru the registration process. I also pick up the material which was donated from Orion and Scope City which we will need to register and mark up. Gary, please bring all the auction forms. Rob, please bring your laptop. I'll bring my laptop and printer. Who from the board is planning on attending the auction? We need volunteers to make sure everything runs smoothly. My call for help netted the usual ZERO volunteers. Mike From LeeBizz at aol.com Sat Apr 8 09:16:03 2006 From: LeeBizz at aol.com (LeeBizz@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. Message-ID: <2f8.2a1c9a2.31693bc3@aol.com> Hi Mike et al, I will be at the preparation meeting tonight at 6:00 PM and I will be attending the auction tomorrow. Please let me know what I can do to help. Thanks, Dr. Lee n. Hoglan Leebizz@aol.com 408) 253-1990 off. 408) 781-4941 cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060408/a2ada5be/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Apr 8 13:31:28 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. In-Reply-To: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <44381DA0.3080806@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > As we have discussed earlyer, we have our Auction Preparation meeting > today, Sat. April 8th. > I suggest starting at 6 PM, just like a normal board meeting. I may be a tad late, but I will be there. > Gary, please bring all the auction forms. Will do. > Who from the board is planning on attending the auction? Me, (obviously). Gary From rnapo at znet.com Sat Apr 8 14:07:20 2006 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. References: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net> <44381DA0.3080806@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000f01c65b50$6d7d5740$f2f71345@180edt> You guys aren't expecting all the board members to be at this meeting, are you? I thought it was for the people running the Auction. Thanks, Rich From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Sat Apr 8 15:02:20 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. In-Reply-To: <000f01c65b50$6d7d5740$f2f71345@180edt> References: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net> <44381DA0.3080806@aenet.net> <000f01c65b50$6d7d5740$f2f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <20060408155439.D38546@koopm.best.vwh.net> If you are planning on helping out at the auction tomorrow and want a say into how things are run, stop on by tonight. If you just want to help out tommorrow with simple tasks such as helping people load and unload, just stop by tomorrow say at 11:30. If your not planning on attending at all, please post and let me know so that I can find other support. Mike On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Rich N wrote: > You guys aren't expecting all the board members to be at this meeting, are you? > > I thought it was for the people running the Auction. > > Thanks, > Rich > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Sat Apr 8 15:17:19 2006 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. References: <20060408023016.W83083@koopm.best.vwh.net><44381DA0.3080806@aenet.net><000f01c65b50$6d7d5740$f2f71345@180edt> <20060408155439.D38546@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <000601c65b5a$33d43f90$0df61345@180edt> I must have missed something at the board meeting. It sounds as if you were expecting every board member to be working in some way at the Auction. I was not planning to be at the Auction other than maybe drop by for a little while... like a regular club member. Rich > If you are planning on helping out at the auction tomorrow and want a say > into how things are run, stop on by tonight. > If you just want to help out tommorrow with simple tasks such as helping > people load and unload, just stop by tomorrow say at 11:30. > If your not planning on attending at all, please post and let me know so > that I can find other support. > > Mike > > > On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Rich N wrote: > > > You guys aren't expecting all the board members to be at this meeting, are you? > > > > I thought it was for the people running the Auction. > > > > Thanks, > > Rich > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From reade at batnet.com Sat Apr 8 16:24:45 2006 From: reade at batnet.com (Gordon Reade) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. In-Reply-To: <20060408155439.D38546@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: I'll be there at 6:00 PM. tonight and then again at 11:30 AM tomorrow. Gordon Reade On Saturday, April 8, 2006, at 03:02 PM, Michael Koop wrote: > If you are planning on helping out at the auction tomorrow and want a > say into how things are run, stop on by tonight. > If you just want to help out tommorrow with simple tasks such as > helping people load and unload, just stop by tomorrow say at 11:30. > If your not planning on attending at all, please post and let me know > so that I can find other support. > > Mike > > > On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Rich N wrote: > >> You guys aren't expecting all the board members to be at this meeting, >> are you? >> >> I thought it was for the people running the Auction. >> >> Thanks, >> Rich >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 8 16:28:33 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction Preparation Meeting on Sat. In-Reply-To: <20060408155439.D38546@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <20060408232833.3547.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> I can't come tonight, but I can stop by tomorrow at 11:30 for 1-2 hrs -Craig --- Michael Koop wrote: > If you are planning on helping out at the auction > tomorrow and want a say > into how things are run, stop on by tonight. > If you just want to help out tommorrow with simple > tasks such as helping > people load and unload, just stop by tomorrow say at > 11:30. > If your not planning on attending at all, please post > and let me know so > that I can find other support. > > Mike > > > On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Rich N wrote: > > > You guys aren't expecting all the board members to be > at this meeting, are you? > > > > I thought it was for the people running the Auction. > > > > Thanks, > > Rich > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Apr 9 21:05:50 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA preliminary auction results Message-ID: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates that SJAA made (net) $1255.50 at the SJAA auction today. We made an additional $55.80 in the following swap. (Not bad since it wasn't much of a swap.) Total net for the day: $1311.30. Once again, most of that is thanks to donations. For those who are interested... We had 13 of the 2006 RASC Observer Handbooks left over. The auction got $11 each for all of them. That's at a loss of $4.7 each, but better that than nothing. Gary Mitchell SJAA Treasurer From north at znet.com Sun Apr 9 21:10:16 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA preliminary auction results In-Reply-To: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> References: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> Message-ID: <7c4836b9492a4925d6fcf00a1432804c@znet.com> Gary, Congratulations on the good result -- and on the fast reporting. > For those who are interested... We had 13 of the 2006 RASC > Observer Handbooks left over. The auction got $11 each for > all of them. That's at a loss of $4.7 each, but better that > than nothing. Not only can the club obviously support the loss, it fits the charter for education. So I think we can all feel sort of good about it, really! Dave North From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Apr 10 06:28:50 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA preliminary auction results In-Reply-To: <7c4836b9492a4925d6fcf00a1432804c@znet.com> References: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> <7c4836b9492a4925d6fcf00a1432804c@znet.com> Message-ID: <443A5D92.4040708@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Gary, > > Congratulations on the good result -- and on the fast reporting. > >> For those who are interested... We had 13 of the 2006 RASC >> Observer Handbooks left over. The auction got $11 each for >> all of them. That's at a loss of $4.7 each, but better that >> than nothing. > > > Not only can the club obviously support the loss, it fits the charter > for education. So I think we can all feel sort of good about it, really! We've been pretty consistent with that. The board decided that book sales should be part service to the membership and part fund raiser for the loaner program. That's why we weren't making much on those to begin with. So, some were wondering whether we took a loss altogether. I just ran the numbers: Our net turned out to be $64.76. At least we ended up in the black. Although, if we had sold out at our asking price, our net would have been $125.86. But, as you say, this is within the club's purpose. And it easily could have been worse. If we couldn't sell those last 13 at all, we *would* have taken a loss altogether. We'll just have to order a few less next time. Gary From LeeBizz at aol.com Mon Apr 10 09:27:59 2006 From: LeeBizz at aol.com (LeeBizz@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA preliminary auction results Message-ID: <36b.1c31261.316be18f@aol.com> Hi Guys, It seems like we had a successful auction. Perhaps we should make note now of any suggested changes so we will be even smoother next year. I was surprised at the lack of eyepieces and accessories. I'm not sure why mostly complete telescopes were sold and small vendors didn't come, to the auction or swap. Anyway, it was a success thanks to all involved, especially Mike, Rob, Gary and Kevin. Bye for now, Dr. Lee N. Hoglan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060410/e48e19c0/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Apr 12 15:46:03 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: SJAA preliminary auction results -- correction In-Reply-To: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> References: <4439D99E.40901@aenet.net> Message-ID: <443D832B.4080202@aenet.net> Gary Mitchell wrote: > A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation indicates that SJAA > made (net) $1255.50 at the SJAA auction today. The total from Jim's program reports $1280.50. My figure is $25 less, but I couldn't account for $25 anywhere. Now, my figure includes $5 in donations. Removing the donations makes the difference $30--and *that* rings a bell. During the "settlement" phase of the auction, I had mistakenly started to write a check for $30 which was actually a payment to us. I had voided the check, but didn't account for that until latter. My initial figures included that voided check as a pay out--making my original report $30 too low. So, our actual net was $1285.50, not $1255.50. Gary Mitchell SJAA Treasurer From craigus at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 13 17:41:53 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Visitors to April 21st Houge Star Party Message-ID: <20060414004153.76251.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Hi SJAA'ers I just got off the phone with Gautam and he said that about a dozen students (and their teacher) from his school would like to attend our next Houge Park star party - weather permitting. I told him I thought it would be fine, but that I would also run this by you for your feedback. Gautam is a high school student who has organized an astronomy club at his school. He reaches out to us occasionally. cheers Craig From jvn at svpal.org Thu Apr 13 21:23:28 2006 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Visitors to April 21st Houge Star Party References: <20060414004153.76251.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <443F23C0.650A@svpal.org> Craig Scull wrote: > > Gautam is a high school student who has organized an > astronomy club at his school. He reaches out to us > occasionally. Wonderful! I've added an entry at the top of the school star party Current Events page. I'll check the weather that morning. By 1 pm, I'll add weather prospects at the top of that page. Please let Gautam know his group can watch that page for weather prospects. I could put up a short announcement for him if he will e-mail me by noon, at . Have them bring their friends! What is the name of the school, and where are they located? I'd like to have a more specific message on that page. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From pkohlmil at best.com Fri Apr 14 00:01:14 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Proofread Message-ID: <005101c65f91$39f51ee0$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> The May Ephemeris is available for proof reading at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0605/EphMay06.pdf Please note the following: 1.. Page 6 still has April's announcement for the SVALS. If I hear from Andy Fraknoi I will post the May speaker information. If not, it will be a short article on astronomy concepts. 2.. In the past, a hyperlink in the PDF version was just text. Starting with the April issue, you should be able to click on a URL and the browser will go there. For example, there is a link to Rob Hawley's eclipse site on page 1. 3.. We could have put more info about the eclipse in this newsletter but I think we really want folks to come to the May 13 meeting. 4.. The Solar System Stats on page 6 really does reflect the stats for May but it still says April. I will fix that. 5.. Lots of pictures in this issue which makes for a large PDF file. I'll try to cut it down some. Please send all comments, corrections and suggestions by 10 p.m. Sunday night. Thanks, Paul and Mary K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060414/4cc6a55b/attachment.html From jvn at svpal.org Fri Apr 14 01:59:11 2006 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Proofread References: <005101c65f91$39f51ee0$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <443F645F.2BDE@svpal.org> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > The May Ephemeris is available for proof reading at: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0605/EphMay06.pdf Pg.2, bottom right picture, caption is incomplete. Rest of text could be "sit in the audience for the first time since 1981." OR "sit in the audience for only the second time in 26 years." OR whatever you had in mind. Pg.1, right column, odd black bar halfway down. > 3. We could have put more info about the eclipse in this newsletter > but I think we really want folks to come to the May 13 meeting. I can't imagine that someone would stay away because the Ephemeris had enough to satisfy. I'm planning my vacation so that I'll be here for the eclipse meeting. > 5. Lots of pictures in this issue which makes for a large PDF file. > I'll try to cut it down some. Please don't remove pictures. It's worth waiting for the download at a blazing 38kbytes/sec. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Apr 14 19:06:12 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Proofread In-Reply-To: <443F645F.2BDE@svpal.org> References: <005101c65f91$39f51ee0$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> <443F645F.2BDE@svpal.org> Message-ID: <44405514.4000606@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Paul Kohlmiller wrote: >> 3. We could have put more info about the eclipse in this newsletter >> but I think we really want folks to come to the May 13 meeting. > > > I can't imagine that someone would stay away because the Ephemeris had > enough to satisfy. I'm planning my vacation so that I'll be here for > the eclipse meeting. I couldn't agree more, Jim. That reasoning made no sense to me... to cut back in the newsletter just because we'll talk about it at the next meeting? I don't understand that. And what about those who can't attend the meeting? A full and complete write-up would make me all the more interested in attending the meeting, not less. But maybe that's just me, (and Jim). >> 5. Lots of pictures in this issue which makes for a large PDF file. >> I'll try to cut it down some. > > > Please don't remove pictures. It's worth waiting for the download at > a blazing 38kbytes/sec. Absolutely, pictures are a *good* thing. Even if it means more pages, I'd go for that. I'm not say let's go hog wild, but, you know... reasonable and pertinent. Gary From akkana at shallowsky.com Fri Apr 14 20:59:26 2006 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May Ephemeris Proofread In-Reply-To: <443F645F.2BDE@svpal.org> References: <005101c65f91$39f51ee0$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> <443F645F.2BDE@svpal.org> Message-ID: <20060415035926.GA8346@shallowsky.com> Jim Van Nuland writes: > Pg.2, bottom right picture, caption is incomplete. Rest of text could > be "sit in the audience for the first time since 1981." > > OR > "sit in the audience for only the second time in 26 years." The caption for the photo on p.3 is also incomplete. > Please don't remove pictures. It's worth waiting for the download at > a blazing 38kbytes/sec. I like the pictures too. Especially when it's a bunch of pretty eclipse pictures. ...Akkana From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Tue Apr 18 14:16:01 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Visitors to April 21st Houge Star Party Message-ID: <20060418151331.W17298@koopm.best.vwh.net> Mark Wagner will be talking on Galaxies for the Beginning Astronomy Class if they would like to sit in before it gets dark. Rob and Jim, please make sure to note the class in the announcement and the hotline. Mike From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun Apr 23 15:05:34 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Future of the Auction Program In-Reply-To: <4449D534.8080707@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000001c66722$0c266670$0300a8c0@robathome> Last year after the auction I did the minimum work necessary to insure we could conduct the auction without Jim's hardware. We did accomplish that goal during this year's auction. Running the program was possible, but even with my User Interface improvements it was clunky and printing was inconvenient. In at least one case I had to edit the text file to correct a mistake that I caught too late. That, of course, makes the event log rather worthless. I do not believe that the kludged printing caused any significant delays on its own. I overlapped my printing with Gary processing the previous customer. As Gary said in a separate email we should have been able to do a batch checkout so all of the receipts were ready and people could have had their money ready before getting in line with him. That would have speeded things up some. Last year I did not proceed beyond the point of a crude port since it was not obvious to me at the time that SJAA really wanted a better solution. If we are now at the point where we would like to have a program that better suited our needs, was easier to use, and did not rely on a version of Basic for which we may or may not have a proper license then I would be willing to help. If SJAA wants to continue using Jim's program or my variant I will be happy to package up my modifications so someone can run the program next year. If on the other hand we want to update our process then we should write down the requirements for the new program and I can look at how best to implement it. I see no need to be constrained by how the auction functioned in the past (except insuring that Denni gets bidder #1). Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Mon Apr 24 03:09:18 2006 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Future of the Auction Program References: <000001c66722$0c266670$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <444CA3CE.CD1@svpal.org> Rob Hawley wrote: ... > In at least one case I had to edit the text file to correct a > mistake that I caught too late. That, of course, makes the event log rather > worthless. I've had such a case. I inserted comments in the master file (first letter is a capital D) explaining what I did, and left the erroneous transaction record in line, but pushed over to put a D at the front. I've also dreamed of having a function key that allows putting a comment into the master file and the event log, so I could enter explanations. > I do not believe that the kludged printing caused any significant delays on > its own. I overlapped my printing with Gary processing the previous > customer. That has been my experience each year, even with asking the person if I was showing the correct number of purchases. Maybe my dot-matrix printer had less overhead? > As Gary said in a separate email we should have been able to do a > batch checkout so all of the receipts were ready and people could have had > their money ready before getting in line with him. That would have speeded > things up some. Trouble with this is that someone may strike a bargain with a seller, and we'd want to run that sale through the computer, so each person gets a complete invoice. That is not uncommon. As it is, we can run the sale through the computer, but then each person has to settle again and two more payments are involved, one from the buyer and one from SJAA to the seller. Not elegant, but it works. The 1982 program had no way at all. > Last year I did not proceed beyond the point of a crude port since it was > not obvious to me at the time that SJAA really wanted a better solution. I wondered why you didn't use it as it was, and simply run it without the Windows GUI and borrow a line printer. > and did not rely on a version of Basic > for which we may or may not have a proper license Keep the code compatible with QuickBasic. I can compile it and the .EXE is legal for someone else to use. I have a legal official copy of QuickBasic. Or I can sell my copy (with the original disks) to SJAA, and run it bootleg for myself. > If SJAA wants to continue using Jim's program or my variant I will be happy > to package up my modifications so someone can run the program next year. Um, er, blush ... I'd hoped YOU would do it for a little while.... > on the other hand we want to update our process then we should write down > the requirements for the new program and I can look at how best to implement > it. The commonest customer suggestion has been to have two machines sharing the database in real time, so that we could (1) have two people working registration; (2) allow someone to check out during the auction; (3) allow registering additional material during the auction. The existing program allows two people to work on registration prior to the auction, and to register additional material during. Before the new material can be auctioned, the two machines must be re-synchronized, presently done by sneakernet. Likewise they'd had to be synched before starting the selling. Each machine must have a floppy drive of the same size. The existing program needs the ability to make corrections. Right now the only way to correct registered material is to remove it entirely, then enter it all over again. If it's sold, it's too late. And, there is no way to remove or change a payment. Removing a "sell" IS implemented, and decently well (given the old-fashioned interface). Updating a bidder's name is implemented well. BTW, Rob, I take the blame that you didn't know that -- it's not in my instruction manual. > I see no need to be constrained by how the auction functioned in the past > (except insuring that Denni gets bidder #1). Agreed! Give each item an RFID chip, and each person an RFID cookie. Give the auctioneer a bluetooth-ed wand to trigger the start of selling an item. The registration information would be sent back to the wand's display screen. Bidder runs his tummy past one of the reader stations that are spotted throughout the room. Bidder cards? What cards? We ain't got no cards. We don't need no steeking cards.... Of course we'd give Denni a ceremonial "1" card, even put her RFID in it. Better than a ceremonial sword as it'd actually work. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon Apr 24 16:12:06 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Future of the Auction Program In-Reply-To: <444CA3CE.CD1@svpal.org> Message-ID: <000f01c667f4$816726e0$0300a8c0@robathome> > > Last year I did not proceed beyond the point of a crude > port since it > > was not obvious to me at the time that SJAA really wanted a > better solution. > > I wondered why you didn't use it as it was, and simply run > it without the Windows GUI and borrow a line printer. There is no "Without a Windows GUI" on NT. Running the cmd window full screen is just a UI trick (like running a game full screen). The existing EXE would not run due to the hardware dependencies. Printing will be a fundamental limitation of any Basic approach. Printing had to be handled totally differently since the Printers were USB based (or network based on my home system). Basic requires character based printers attached to the Parallel port. Dell is now shipping laptops without a parallel port. Hence my modifications to print to text files and then use Windows printing to print them. The new copy has no hardware dependencies. Not elegant, but a side effect is we have a copy of everything printed - A feature that we would want to retain in any future program. It was too hard to remember all of the PF Keys so the program now prompts with the key list and waits for a key entry. The original program contained Basic commands that would not run in the version of QBasic that runs under Win32. The program mostly waits for user input so running it interpretively caused no performance issue. I got my version of Qbasic from one of my old installation disks. That is what Microsoft recommends in KB 258265. It was on the NT4 and Win 9x installation disks. I also changed the program to insure that the file was written to disk after each transaction. Unfortunately from Basic there is no way to set the file as write through or to force a flush to disk so that was not a 100% solution. It at least protected me against a program crash (which did occur during testing). > Keep the code compatible with QuickBasic. I can compile it and the .EXE is legal for > someone else to use. That is not consistent with the goal of breaking the dependency on a particular piece of hardware. > I have a legal official copy of QuickBasic. Or I can sell my copy (with the original disks) > to SJAA, and run it bootleg for myself. That would violate the law. You would have to delete all copies of QuickBasic before that could even be considered. We need to move away from Basic if we are going to have a better solution to printing. > > on the other hand we want to update our process then we > should write > > down the requirements for the new program and I can look at > how best > > to implement it. > > The commonest customer suggestion has been to have two > machines sharing the database in real time, so that we could > (1) have two people working registration; (2) allow someone > to check out during the auction; > (3) allow registering additional material during the auction. > > The existing program allows two people to work on > registration prior to the auction, and to register additional > material during. Before the new material can be auctioned, > the two machines must be re-synchronized, presently done by > sneakernet. Likewise they'd had to be synched before > starting the selling. Each machine must have a floppy drive > of the same size. Floppy drives are not longer available on PCs, I modified LAUCTION so that it would ask for the path (and thus support USB drives), but since I was not feeling well in the days before the auction I got conservative and only used features I was confident in. I was able to easily handle the load this year since the auction was smaller this year than in the past. The program is not the main barrier to doing checkout during the auction. We repeated the system that was started last year where a second person made a paper record of what happened. We consulted Gary's record on more than one occasion to be sure I heard everything correctly. Thus we would need a 3rd person to take over the role Gary was performing if we were going to consider checkout during the auction. > Removing a "sell" IS implemented, and decently well (given > the old-fashioned interface). Updating a bidder's name is > implemented well. BTW, Rob, I take the blame that you didn't > know that -- it's not in my instruction manual. > I knew there was an unsell function, but it since I had not extensively tested it was safer just to stop the program, edit the transaction file, and restart. Since I caught the error immediately after hitting return on the bad entry I would have been able to correct it on a form with just a mouse click. > > > If SJAA wants to continue using Jim's program or my variant > I will be > > happy to package up my modifications so someone can run the > program next year. > > Um, er, blush ... I'd hoped YOU would do it for a little while.... The next auction is a long time from now. > Agreed! Give each item an RFID chip, and each person an > RFID cookie. LOL At this point the most attractive tool looks like Visual Basic. Don't let the name fool you. Those that are comfortable with MS's Object Classes in C++ will feel right at home with this tool. The Visual Basic Express development environment can be downloaded for free from Microsoft and came with SQL Server Express. http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/vb/ The Visual Basic prototype I built resembles the old program's functionality, but uses forms. This would allow for correcting errors in a transaction before it was committed. Since multiple forms can be active at any one time it will permit registration of late users without disrupting the auction. I have not had a chance to explore what the SQL Server is capable of. In principle that could be an industrial strength database that we could use to allow multiple terminals to manipulate a single database. Since my professional specialty was file access protocols I would love to see a multiple terminal approach; however, I also know that shared database applications are difficult to debug so I would not recommend us building a custom solution. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Apr 25 02:16:04 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Future of the Auction Program In-Reply-To: <444CA3CE.CD1@svpal.org> References: <000001c66722$0c266670$0300a8c0@robathome> <444CA3CE.CD1@svpal.org> Message-ID: <444DE8D4.7080808@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: >>As Gary said in a separate email we should have been able to do a >>batch checkout so all of the receipts were ready and people could have had >>their money ready before getting in line with him. That would have speeded >>things up some. > > > Trouble with this is that someone may strike a bargain with a seller, > and we'd want to run that sale through the computer, so each person gets > a complete invoice. That is not uncommon. As it is, we can run the > sale through the computer, but then each person has to settle again and > two more payments are involved, one from the buyer and one from SJAA to > the seller. Not elegant, but it works. The 1982 program had no way at > all. It sounds like you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. Special cases like this could be dealt with as they come up. We'd only have to discard the pre-printed invoice for that case and print up a new one... which we currently already pretty much do with *all* of them. With all invoices already printed, the computer guy will have a lot more time to handle those special cases. And meanwhile, with the all the other invoices ready to go, I could be taking care of the next person in line while the special case is being processed. As it is now, everyone has to wait for the special case to be fixed. > The commonest customer suggestion has been to have two machines > sharing the database in real time, so that we could (1) have two people > working registration; (2) allow someone to check out during the auction; > (3) allow registering additional material during the auction. It seems to me the auction process can be streamlined to the point where no second computer person would be needed. With the streamlining that I've mentioned, and perhaps more, the computer person will have a lot less on his plate. Dual data entry shouldn't really be necessary. > The existing program allows two people to work on registration prior > to the auction, and to register additional material during. Before the > new material can be auctioned, the two machines must be re-synchronized, > presently done by sneakernet. Likewise they'd had to be synched before > starting the selling. Each machine must have a floppy drive of the same > size. I still haven't heard any reasons why we can't have all items pre-registered. That'd go far to ease the work load of the computer person just before the auction starts. On the other hand, this dual machine plan introduces a new potential source of problems: the two machines not being properly synchronized. And don't think that won't happen. >>I see no need to be constrained by how the auction functioned in the past >>(except insuring that Denni gets bidder #1). > > > Agreed! Give each item an RFID chip, and each person an RFID cookie. > Give the auctioneer a bluetooth-ed wand to trigger the start of selling > an item. The registration information would be sent back to the wand's > display screen. Bidder runs his tummy past one of the reader stations > that are spotted throughout the room. Bidder cards? What cards? We > ain't got no cards. We don't need no steeking cards.... > > Of course we'd give Denni a ceremonial "1" card, even put her RFID in > it. Better than a ceremonial sword as it'd actually work. All very amusing, but how about a more practical idea: Many of the same people show up year after year, yet we start from scratch every time. Is there a way to have, say, a secondary database of all the folks who registered before and just transfer their data over if/when they show up? This way there'd be no forms (if they're already in the computer) and the only data entry would be the assignment of a bidder number. Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 27 23:57:03 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land - challenge grant , trial star party Message-ID: <20060428065703.46861.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Board'ees I had a chance to catch up with Bob Ayers yesterday and wanted to pass along a couple updates. (1) Bob suggested that we might use a "challenge grant" tactic to raise money for the initial improvements to the site (bathroom, expanding the parking area, etc.) Something in the $10,000-$15,000 might be do-able. We could even break down the costs of the improvements so people would know exactly where the money was going (e.g. your $10 bought this cup of gravel -- joking). The auction has passed, but we could solicit donations to sell in other ways, such as at the meetings or other events. (2) I mentioned to Bob that SJAA didn't think a "trial star party" was necessary because the land was attractive enough to astronomers, and his response was that he "still thought it would be a good idea to do a trial star party." I can understand that it would make Bob feel better to know his land will be well utilized. Our own Rob Hawley who is a potential donor for the improvements feels the same way. We also need to start assessing toilet capacity by actually using the site. All in all, we would be wise to do a trial star party in May. A port a potty for the event would be the best solution for now. Assuming these are not too expensive, we'd keep doing port a potty rentals for observing events until we feel we have a handle on the capacity we need for the site. We'd "advertise" a may star party at Ayers land within our club, on TAC, and perhaps neighboring clubs as well. This would all be "within community" advertising, not "public" advertising. best, Craig From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri Apr 28 00:01:06 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Upcoming general meeting - Ayers land Message-ID: <20060428070106.15671.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Dave Can you please confirm that at the next general meeting we are "on" for a bit of time to introduce the club membership to the Ayers land? Also, let me know what the available time slot is, or what the range of time might be. An unknown is how much time will be occupied by questions. I suppose these could be deferred to the end of the meeting if it goes on too long. thanks Craig From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Apr 28 03:05:26 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land - challenge grant , trial star party In-Reply-To: <20060428065703.46861.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060428065703.46861.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4451E8E6.2000900@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > Hi Board'ees > > I had a chance to catch up with Bob Ayers yesterday and > wanted to pass along a couple updates. > > (1) Bob suggested that we might use a "challenge grant" > tactic to raise money for the initial improvements to the > site (bathroom, expanding the parking area, etc.) I personally don't like gimmicks or tricks like that, but that's just me. > Something in the $10,000-$15,000 might be do-able. That much is do-able right now. We've got $3000 in the Observatory fund, but there's a lot more in the general fund we could transfer over. At $15,000, we would still have enough left over to operate the club, but it would all but do away with our nest egg... whatever you want to call it. So, fund raising should still be done regardless. > (2) I mentioned to Bob that SJAA didn't think a "trial > star party" was necessary because the land was attractive > enough to astronomers, and his response was that he > "still thought it would be a good idea to do a trial star > party." If we are going to raise money, *several* "trial star parties" would be a good way to generate interest... and open wallets. ;) But that can come later, we should concentrate on getting the land transferred first and making sure we haven't forgotten something (permits or whatever). Gary From bhavner at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 28 08:15:50 2006 From: bhavner at sbcglobal.net (Bob & Brenda Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Coe tomorrow Message-ID: <20060428151550.9923.qmail@web80310.mail.yahoo.com> Letting you know I will be at coe for MM part 2 tomorrow night. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060428/3c77f350/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri Apr 28 15:07:50 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land - challenge grant , trial star party In-Reply-To: <4451E8E6.2000900@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060428220750.9292.qmail@web53814.mail.yahoo.com> > But that can come later, we should concentrate on > getting > the land transferred first and making sure we haven't > forgotten something (permits or whatever). I think we should consider the "trial" star party a soft requirement for doing the land transfer. Bob is not saying it's required (yet), but I think we would be wise to do it this way to keep things moving smoothly. There are really no downsides to a trial star party to my knowledge unless a port a potty was expensive. Craig --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > Craig Scull wrote: > > > Hi Board'ees > > > > I had a chance to catch up with Bob Ayers yesterday > and > > wanted to pass along a couple updates. > > > > (1) Bob suggested that we might use a "challenge > grant" > > tactic to raise money for the initial improvements to > the > > site (bathroom, expanding the parking area, etc.) > > I personally don't like gimmicks or tricks like that, > but > that's just me. > > > Something in the $10,000-$15,000 might be do-able. > > That much is do-able right now. We've got $3000 in the > Observatory fund, but there's a lot more in the general > fund we could transfer over. At $15,000, we would > still > have enough left over to operate the club, but it would > all but do away with our nest egg... whatever you want > to > call it. So, fund raising should still be done > regardless. > > > > (2) I mentioned to Bob that SJAA didn't think a > "trial > > star party" was necessary because the land was > attractive > > enough to astronomers, and his response was that he > > "still thought it would be a good idea to do a trial > star > > party." > > If we are going to raise money, *several* "trial star > parties" would be a good way to generate interest... > and > open wallets. ;) > > But that can come later, we should concentrate on > getting > the land transferred first and making sure we haven't > forgotten something (permits or whatever). > > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >