From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 1 15:17:42 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Catering Options for CalStar Message-ID: <009201c66d6d$10d141d0$0300a8c0@robathome> Now that my trips are done I am starting to work off my to-do list. Last year a lot of folks expressed a concern that the BBQ was too expensive. At $18.00 retail per plate it was the price of a fine restaurant meal. The old caterer has become prohibitively expense for several reasons Our need to cover our no show risk due to collecting money on site Their $200 deposit which was added to the per person price The base price of the meals which depended on the meal $14 for chicken and $16 for beef I believe we have already decided to collect money ahead of time this year. That would reduce our risk to the $200 deposit assuming we called off the event 72 hrs in advance. Who takes the risk of a rain out within the 72 hr window was never decided. I asked the park this year for alternatives and they recommended Cahoots Catering in Paso Robles. I called and the folks are out of town until May 8. They pointed me to their website which is good enough for discussion http://www.cahootscatering.com/cahoots/Images/menu/cahootsmenu.pdf They also have a BBQ, but it is the same price as our old caterer. CAHOOTS BARBECUE TOP SIRLOIN * BEEF RIBS * MARINATED TURKEY BREAST TRI-TIP * BABY BACK RIBS * CHICKEN BREAST * SOY & GINGER MARINATED PORK TENDERLOIN * CHICKEN QUARTERS * VEGGIE TOFU KABOBS YOUR SELECTION, WILL BE COOKED OVER MESQUITE, SERVED WITH. RED POTATO SALAD CHOICE OF GREEN SALAD, CHOICE OF BEANS, GARLIC BREAD, SALSA & CHIPOTLE SAUCE. Price per person for Barbecue... 1 MEAT $13.95 * 2-MEATS $15.95 * 3- MEATS $17.95 They also offer some other selections In particular they offer BOX LUNCH SELECTION Grilled Marinated Turkey Breast, Tri-Tip, Chicken Salad w/ Tarragon & Pine Nuts, or Grilled Vegetables w/ Goat Cheese & Tapenade, on Focaccia. THE CHARDONNAY $10.00 FOCACCIA SANDWICH, GOURMET SALAD, FRUIT, SPARKLING WATER & DESSERT. THE PINOT NOIR $12.00 FOCACCIA SANDWICH, TWO GOURMET SALADS, FRUIT, SPARKLING WATER & DESSERT. THE CABERNET SAUVINGNON $15.00 FOCACCIA SANDWICH, TWO GOURMET SALADS, FRUIT, CHEESE & CRACKERS, SPARKLING WATER, DESSERT AND TRUFFLE. SANDWICH BUFFET CHOICE OF TURKEY & TRI-TIP ON FOCACCIA CHICKEN SALAD W/ TARRAGON & PINENUTS OR GRILLED VEGETABLES W/ GOAT CHEESE & TAPANADE ON CIABATTA CHOICE OF GREEN SALAD, CHOICE OF HOMEMADE SIDE SALAD $10.50 per person They also require a $200 refundable deposit and 72 hr firm count. I need to ask if this will apply to the per person prices or not. I need a sense from the board whether this is worth pursuing. We reserved 59 meals Friday and 65 for Saturday last year out of 181 total participants (about 1/3 participation). I believe this number would be higher if we could offer something lower in price. Let me know what you think Rob Hawley From areopagus125 at yahoo.com Mon May 1 23:02:56 2006 From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Upcoming general meeting - Ayers land In-Reply-To: <20060428070106.15671.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060502060256.70977.qmail@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, you may have some time. There are not many people planning to speak on the eclipse, and they do not plan big presentations. (Well, one person I talked to is a wild card.) I don't have a good handle on how long the presentations will be. How long do you need - 20 minutes? -- David --- Craig Scull wrote: > Hi Dave > > Can you please confirm that at the next general > meeting > we are "on" for a bit of time to introduce the club > membership to the Ayers land? > > Also, let me know what the available time slot is, > or > what the range of time might be. An unknown is how > much > time will be occupied by questions. I suppose these > could > be deferred to the end of the meeting if it goes on > too > long. > > thanks > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From north at znet.com Mon May 1 23:10:55 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Pick Up and Mailing List In-Reply-To: <20060502060256.70977.qmail@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060502060256.70977.qmail@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <514edefb9c7c2c5c8c9b4851cfa3977e@znet.com> In order to give the concerned parties an opportunity to arrange for an alternative, I'm giving notice that this month will be the last time I'll be able to print out the mailing list and pick up the Ephemeris at Accuprint (or, of course, deliver it to whomever will be mailing it). I don't think I quite made a decade, and this is of course nothing compared to the persistence of JVN. But not all of us are that tough. Dave North From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 1 23:23:09 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Catering Options for CalStar In-Reply-To: <009201c66d6d$10d141d0$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <009201c66d6d$10d141d0$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4456FACD.3080603@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > Now that my trips are done I am starting to work off my to-do list. > > Last year a lot of folks expressed a concern that the BBQ was too expensive. > At $18.00 retail per plate it was the price of a fine restaurant meal. Yes, but a restaurant doesn't have to bring it up to a remote mountain site. > The > old caterer has become prohibitively expense for several reasons > > Our need to cover our no show risk due to collecting money on site > Their $200 deposit which was added to the per person price > The base price of the meals which depended on the meal $14 for > chicken and $16 for beef > > I believe we have already decided to collect money ahead of time this year. > That would reduce our risk to the $200 deposit assuming we called off the > event 72 hrs in advance. Who takes the risk of a rain out within the 72 hr > window was never decided. I believe we should have been doing something like that from the start, especially if we could be left holding the bag. > I asked the park this year for alternatives and they recommended Cahoots > They also have a BBQ, but it is the same price as our old caterer. > They also require a $200 refundable deposit and 72 hr firm count. I need to > ask if this will apply to the per person prices or not. > > I need a sense from the board whether this is worth pursuing. We reserved > 59 meals Friday and 65 for Saturday last year out of 181 total participants > (about 1/3 participation). I believe this number would be higher if we > could offer something lower in price. > > Let me know what you think I haven't eaten that food, so I can't really say; but if it's reasonably good, is that price really so high? It seems to me that if we try to go too cheap, that's exactly what we'll get--cheap food. Any meal delivered up to the site is going to cost more than the same thing served at a restaurant. The fact that the other caterer charges about the same tells me that it's probably not that far out of line. Now, if the bottom line is that the meals are too expensive and/or not enough people buy it, then maybe it's not worth the trouble. Do you think we're at that point? Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 2 07:12:47 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Upcoming general meeting - Ayers land In-Reply-To: <20060502060256.70977.qmail@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a501c66df2$7dbe6220$0300a8c0@robathome> I would be more comfortable with 30 minutes. Maybe the best approach is to do it at the end since I expect extensive questions. We also plan to publish the announcement that SJAA is considering the land on TAC and elsewhere. Thus there is the possibility that people may be attending specifically for this information. Rob Hawley > -----Original Message----- > From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net > [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of David Smith > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 11:03 PM > To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Upcoming general meeting - Ayers land > > Yes, you may have some time. There are not many people > planning to speak on the eclipse, and they do not plan big > presentations. (Well, one person I talked to is a wild > card.) I don't have a good handle on how long the > presentations will be. How long do you need - 20 minutes? > > -- David > > --- Craig Scull wrote: > > > Hi Dave > > > > Can you please confirm that at the next general meeting we are "on" > > for a bit of time to introduce the club membership to the > Ayers land? > > > > Also, let me know what the available time slot is, or what > the range > > of time might be. An unknown is how much time will be occupied by > > questions. I suppose these could be deferred to the end of > the meeting > > if it goes on too long. > > > > thanks > > Craig > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection > around http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 2 07:28:01 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Catering Options for CalStar In-Reply-To: <4456FACD.3080603@aenet.net> Message-ID: <00a601c66df4$9e1a0130$0300a8c0@robathome> I picked this caterer based on a recommendation from the park. The operators used to run a restaurant along with the catering business, but now just do catering. Looking at the menu they look like they appeal to more upscale cliental. My main concerns are whether the boxed dinners will contain enough food and that the food will be mostly cold sandwiches. The BBQ assures everyone gets at least one hot meal. Shingletown does boxed dinners one night which is a BBQ dinner catered by Big Daddy's BBQ in Redding, delivered to the star party on Friday evening. Price is $12 per meal, which is expected to include BBQ ribs and chicken, salad, BBQ Beans, BBQ potatoes, plates, napkins, utensils and water and soft drinks. That is a better deal then what I can provide. I don't feel strongly on this. I just need a decision preferably before the 13th. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 4 11:32:34 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Are the dates for the Coyote Star Parties on the calendar? Message-ID: <015501c66fa9$1d0d60d0$0300a8c0@robathome> On another matter www.sjaa.net/gotstars no longer maintains a separate calendar. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 5 14:16:12 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers Star Party on the 27th Message-ID: <20060505211612.71403.qmail@web53801.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone It looks like we've settled on Saturday the 27th of this month as the date for our "trial" star party up at Bob's land. Rob has found a porta a potty delivery service that will give us a 1 week rental for $95. If we don't hear any feedback from you by Sunday night we will proceed forward with this on Monday. There are of course logistical details to be figured out like the parking. I will be notifying TAC and other groups next week about this event to help promote it. Rob, feel free to add anything I've missed. Craig From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue May 9 22:07:18 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Memorial Weekend Dark Sky Party (announcement) Message-ID: <20060510050718.36928.qmail@web53810.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, here's the email that will announce the upcoming memorial day star party. I'm planning to email this out tomorrow (wed) evening and would appreciate any feedback you might have. Subject: Memorial Weekend Dark Sky Party Join the San Jose Astronomy Club and Bob Ayers on Saturday May 27th for some serious deep sky observing. The site? Bob's 40-acres of rolling land in Willow Springs (2 hours drive south of San Jose). Directions (work in progress): http://www.sjaa.net/ws/WSDirections.pdf http://www.robhawley.net/Road_Sequence2.pdf How dark is it? The light pollution maps say it's a full magnitude darker than Fremont Peak: http://www.sjaa.net/ws/light-pollution-map.html OK. So what can you expect to see? * Barnard's loop (6" RFT) * Gegenshein (naked eye on a good night) * Horsehead (10" with filter) * Omega Centauri - well resolved (in 16"). The southern sky is dark down to a wide low horizon. And we could go on... these reports are also confirmed by other Willow Springs observers. The SQM is 21.5 as compared to 21.9 for the Texas Star Party and 21.9 for the Mauna Kea visitor's center, but the above observations are more informative than any number we could give you. Sites you can set up at: -The Flat- (270 degree view, north blocked by ridge. This is the most popular spot and also where a sound proof'ed generator is, so it's best for astrophotographers that need power.) -The Ridge- (360 degree panoramic view. Sometimes windy.) -The Camping Bowl- (Large area. Horizons are not as great. Best for camping and overflow observers.) A rented toilet will be placed at the intersection of these observing areas. We invite you to camp overnight (we plan to do this). There is no running water so be sure to bring your own. This is a free star party. No committment or reservations are necessary, but please let us know if you are interested so we can plan ahead. Bob's site is at 3,000 ft elevation, the views are gorgeous. We suggest you arrive early enough to walk around and enjoy the scenery: http://www.sjaa.net/ws/ridge_panorama.jpg (click image to zoom in) Bob is exploring the idea of making this site available on a regular basis. A second, email will introduce the site and this potential opportunity in more detail. Craig Scull & Rob Hawley PS from Craig: Warning. The Willow Springs area can be addicting. I have not observed from anywhere else in the past year! From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue May 9 22:08:55 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Memorial Weekend Dark Sky Party (announcement) In-Reply-To: <20060510050718.36928.qmail@web53810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060510050855.91123.qmail@web53807.mail.yahoo.com> Correction - memorial **Weekend** star party, saturday May 27th. --- Craig Scull wrote: > Hi everyone, here's the email that will announce the > upcoming memorial day star party. I'm planning to email > this out tomorrow (wed) evening and would appreciate > any > feedback you might have. > > Subject: Memorial Weekend Dark Sky Party > > Join the San Jose Astronomy Club and Bob Ayers on > Saturday May 27th for some serious deep sky observing. > The site? Bob's 40-acres of rolling land in Willow > Springs (2 hours drive south of San Jose). > > Directions (work in progress): > http://www.sjaa.net/ws/WSDirections.pdf > http://www.robhawley.net/Road_Sequence2.pdf > > How dark is it? The light pollution maps say it's a > full > magnitude darker than Fremont Peak: > http://www.sjaa.net/ws/light-pollution-map.html > > OK. So what can you expect to see? > * Barnard's loop (6" RFT) > * Gegenshein (naked eye on a good night) > * Horsehead (10" with filter) > * Omega Centauri - well resolved (in 16"). The southern > sky is dark down to a wide low horizon. > > And we could go on... these reports are also confirmed > by > other Willow Springs observers. The SQM is 21.5 as > compared to 21.9 for the Texas Star Party and 21.9 for > the Mauna Kea visitor's center, but the above > observations are more informative than any number we > could give you. > > Sites you can set up at: > -The Flat- (270 degree view, north blocked by ridge. > This > is the most popular spot and also where a sound > proof'ed > generator is, so it's best for astrophotographers that > need power.) > > -The Ridge- (360 degree panoramic view. Sometimes > windy.) > > -The Camping Bowl- (Large area. Horizons are not as > great. Best for camping and overflow observers.) > > A rented toilet will be placed at the intersection of > these observing areas. > > We invite you to camp overnight (we plan to do this). > There is no running water so be sure to bring your own. > This is a free star party. No committment or > reservations > are necessary, but please let us know if you are > interested so we can plan ahead. > > Bob's site is at 3,000 ft elevation, the views are > gorgeous. We suggest you arrive early enough to walk > around and enjoy the scenery: > http://www.sjaa.net/ws/ridge_panorama.jpg (click image > to > zoom in) > > Bob is exploring the idea of making this site available > on a regular basis. A second, email will introduce the > site and this potential opportunity in more detail. > > Craig Scull & Rob Hawley > > PS from Craig: > Warning. The Willow Springs area can be addicting. I > have > not observed from anywhere else in the past year! > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 9 22:29:53 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Announcing User Interface Demonstration version of a new SJAA Auction Program Message-ID: <007301c673f2$c489c180$0300a8c0@robathome> I am pleased to announce that work on my new edition of the SJAA Auction program has now progressed to the point that the user interface is mostly functional. The remainder of the UI depends heavily on the underlying database, which will be completed in the next build. I expect the program will be fully completed by the end of summer. Since I have only worked in two auctions I would value review by more experienced people to see if I have missed anything. Here is a copy of the functional spec, test plan, and user's manual. http://www.robhawley.net/sjaaAuction0.0.1.8.pdf If you would like to have a look at a copy of the program for yourself then you can download this: http://www.robhawley.net/sjaaauction0.0.1.8.zip The program requires Windows XP SP2. You also need to have an updated copy of .NET on your system. Download this with Windows Update before trying to install the program. See the spec for more information. The current version has 10 hard coded bidders and 10 hard coded items (item 10 is particularly interesting). Checkout, Save Data (you will have to read the spec), and the reports are only implemented to the point that the user interface can be demonstrated. The other functions have a completely working UI, but registrations, edits, and sales are not recorded since the database has not been implemented. The purpose of this version is to verify that the UI is useable which I believe it does. I do not claim it is bug free (and has at least two outstanding bugs logged on it), but I would like to know if you encounter anything or if something feels awkward. At the moment I am struggling with some of the Visual Basic quirks. It would be interesting to see if anyone besides me notices them. Please contact me off list if you are interested in helping test the program. I have some other things that have been delayed while working on this the past few weeks. Once I get those completed I will continue work on this (probably in July). Rob Hawley By the way the reason for the question on sales taxes should now be obvious. From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 10 07:57:26 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] .new SJAA Auction Program Message-ID: <008c01c67442$0dd675a0$0300a8c0@robathome> I received a suggestion to extract the requirements from the document and send them in an email. Here they are. Rob Hawley Overview This describes the program written in 2006 to manage the Annual SJAA Auction. This program replaces the venerable program that has served SJAA for the past 25 years (which will be referred to as the Original Program). The 2007 Edition is being built with the following requirements. q Hardware Independence -The 2007 edition uses Windows XP printing and the .NET environment. Any Windows compatible printer can be used regardless of how it is connected. Any Windows XP compatible computer may be used. q 100% compatible with Original Program - The 2007 edition will read the Original Program's database files and will write files itself that can be read by the Original Program. Re-executing all of the previous auctions (and verifying the results with a spreadsheet) will be a fundamental part of the testing program for the 2007 edition. q Easy to Use User Interface - The 2007 Edition uses forms that exactly mirror in function and even appearance the paper forms and procedures used in the auction. Entered data is only committed once all of the data is entered. At any point the entries can be revised. If changes need to be made then editors are available for bidders, items, or even sales. The user does not need to know what low level operations are required to make a simple change. q Eliminate the Need For Pre-configuration - Bidders that arrive once the auction begins are termed "late bidders" by the Original Program. A certain number of "late bidders" had to be preconfigured in the startup database. The 2007 edition handles this case directly and, therefore, eliminates the need for editing the startup file. In fact, the program will create the startup file on its own. q Compatibility with Spreadsheets - The 2007 edition will summarize the results of all bidder checkouts and all sales and output them in a form that can be read by Excel or any other spreadsheet capable of reading Comma separated files. q Database uses Write Through - Write Through is a file system property where each write goes directly to disk. This reduces the chances of data corruption or loss due to system or program crashes. q Retain Copies of Checkouts - A side effect of the 2006 modifications to the original program was that we retained copies of all of the checkout printouts. The 2007 edition will retain that feature. In addition it will maintain an internal summary of each checkout that will be available using Save Data. q Slave Capability in Single Binary - The 2007 edition has the built-in ability to use several second computers to aid in the initial data entry. This is built into the single binary being developed. The program does not specify how the slave produced database file should be visible by the master. Any location visible by the Windows XP Open File Dialog is permitted. q No Hard coded File Names- The program does not depend on any hard coded file names. The startup configuration is settable via dialogs. q Developed with Easily Available Tools - The 2007 Edition is written in the Microsoft Visual Basic Express Development Environment. This can be downloaded for free from Microsoft. "Basic" is a misnomer since this is a full object oriented environment similar to C++ or Java. Anyone who has written an application for a PC or Mac within the last 15 years or in Java will be able to easily use this environment. If offers extensive entry time (not even compile time) diagnostics to avoid many common programming problems Rob Hawley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060510/8cda6d7a/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 10 20:22:32 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan Message-ID: <20060511032232.96188.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> For those interested, here is the "plan" Rob and I are using for our communications to the bay area astronomical community (TAC, SJAA, AANC clubs, etc) regarding the upcoming star party and the donation in general. Step 1 (today). Email about open-house star party on the 27th of the month. The single purpose of this email is to generate interest in Bob's land and the upcoming star party on the 27th. I admit the date is not great, but this is the first of a series of star parties we're planning. Step 2 (tomorrow). Email to bay area astronomers with more information around Bob's offer to donate the land, if there is sufficient interest. The purpose of this email is informational, but also with a slant toward "use it or lose it" to help motivate people to try the land. Step 3: (saturday's general meeting). Rob will do a presentation after the eclipse presentations. We'll be asking some questions of the audience to get a feel for how many active observers are present and to see what the general interest level is in Bob's site. Step 4 (next week). Follow up email with directions, and to remind people about the star party on the 27th. Craig From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed May 10 21:02:57 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060511032232.96188.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060511032232.96188.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060510215548.V80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Thanks for posting this. I think the only thing missing is a meeting dedicated to talking about the land. If you and Rob think it would be benifical, we could reserve the hall at Houge for a weekday night. I am concerned that the people who are attending the general meeting may not be the observers we are attempting to recruit to join in, and the observers who we are trying to recruit may not want to attend the general meeting. We do have the hall reserved on May 18th for the ATM class. We only have people polishing, so both could go on concurrently without any problems. This way Rob and Craig could give their full presentation and have an extended oppertunity for questions. Mike On Wed, 10 May 2006, Craig Scull wrote: > For those interested, here is the "plan" Rob and I are > using for our communications to the bay area astronomical > community (TAC, SJAA, AANC clubs, etc) regarding the > upcoming star party and the donation in general. > > Step 1 (today). Email about open-house star party on the > 27th of the month. The single purpose of this email is to > generate interest in Bob's land and the upcoming star > party on the 27th. I admit the date is not great, but > this is the first of a series of star parties we're > planning. > > Step 2 (tomorrow). Email to bay area astronomers with > more information around Bob's offer to donate the land, > if there is sufficient interest. The purpose of this > email is informational, but also with a slant toward "use > it or lose it" to help motivate people to try the land. > > Step 3: (saturday's general meeting). Rob will do a > presentation after the eclipse presentations. We'll be > asking some questions of the audience to get a feel for > how many active observers are present and to see what the > general interest level is in Bob's site. > > Step 4 (next week). Follow up email with directions, and > to remind people about the star party on the 27th. > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 10 21:27:59 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060510215548.V80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> We discussed this in March and we regarded the Eclipse stuff as a place holder for a meeting to discuss the land. For some reason it seems like you now want to bump the land deal from the meeting. We are going to start heavily advertising this. The eclipse will be a bit of a draw. I feel it is far less likely that you will get people to attend a special meeting. I don't believe yet another meeting is either desirable or necessary. We agreed with Dave that we would go second. Any one who is not interested in a major change of focus for the club is free to leave. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 10 21:35:06 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060510215548.V80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <20060511043506.9360.qmail@web53812.mail.yahoo.com> > hall at Houge for a weekday night. I am concerned that > the people who are > attending the general meeting may not be the observers > we are attempting > to recruit to join in, and the observers who we are > trying to recruit may > not want to attend the general meeting. This is an interesting hypothesis. The following things could happen: -No interest or alternatively, people are just content to let us keep moving in a direction whose only outcome they see as positive -Some interest in discussion. This is met by the upcoming general meeting -Sufficient interest for a dedicated meeting. This can be scheduled as need be. -Sufficient interest for multiple meetings/ongoing meeting. This can be scheduled as need be. In the email I send out tomorrow, I can add a note along the lines of "if you wish more in depth information, a separate meeting can be scheduled or you are welcome to give us a call, let us know your preference." It seems like clubs have members who are chronically uninvolved as a whole, so I'm not expecting many people to be interested in talking about the land, but I do expect people to be interested in observing from the land. We will find out the answer very soon and can adapt accordingly. Craig --- Michael Koop wrote: > Thanks for posting this. > I think the only thing missing is a meeting dedicated > to talking about the > land. If you and Rob think it would be benifical, we > could reserve the > hall at Houge for a weekday night. I am concerned that > the people who are > attending the general meeting may not be the observers > we are attempting > to recruit to join in, and the observers who we are > trying to recruit may > not want to attend the general meeting. We do have the > hall reserved on > May 18th for the ATM class. We only have people > polishing, so both could > go on concurrently without any problems. This way Rob > and Craig could give > their full presentation and have an extended > oppertunity for questions. > > Mike > > On Wed, 10 May 2006, Craig Scull wrote: > > > For those interested, here is the "plan" Rob and I > are > > using for our communications to the bay area > astronomical > > community (TAC, SJAA, AANC clubs, etc) regarding the > > upcoming star party and the donation in general. > > > > Step 1 (today). Email about open-house star party on > the > > 27th of the month. The single purpose of this email > is to > > generate interest in Bob's land and the upcoming star > > party on the 27th. I admit the date is not great, but > > this is the first of a series of star parties we're > > planning. > > > > Step 2 (tomorrow). Email to bay area astronomers with > > more information around Bob's offer to donate the > land, > > if there is sufficient interest. The purpose of this > > email is informational, but also with a slant toward > "use > > it or lose it" to help motivate people to try the > land. > > > > Step 3: (saturday's general meeting). Rob will do a > > presentation after the eclipse presentations. We'll > be > > asking some questions of the audience to get a feel > for > > how many active observers are present and to see what > the > > general interest level is in Bob's site. > > > > Step 4 (next week). Follow up email with directions, > and > > to remind people about the star party on the 27th. > > > > Craig > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SJAABoard mailing list > > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed May 10 23:19:56 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> On Wed, 10 May 2006, Rob Hawley wrote: > We discussed this in March and we regarded the Eclipse stuff as a place > holder for a meeting to discuss the land. For some reason it seems like you > now want to bump the land deal from the meeting. I do not recall anyone saying that the eclipse meeting was a place holder for the land introduction at the March board meeting. The eclipse meeting in the past has been one of our better meetings, well recieved by our membership. Who could forget John Gleason's eclipse shot ending the 91 eclipse meeting. I know of one person who has changed his vacation plans just to attend the eclipse meeting. We have no idea how many people will be there to present, could be few could be many. I have no problem with you doing an "Executive summary" introducing the land to the membership and encouraging people to get out there so that we can determine interest. I think if you can keep it to 20 minutes or so it should lead the meeting. I just do not want to see either presentation get short changed. > We agreed with Dave that we would go second. Any one who is not interested > in a major change of focus for the club is free to leave. > Unfortunately, the land announcement did not make the May Issue of the Ephemeris. How can we do a "major change of focus" without an annoucement in the Ephemeris? We need a full meeting on this. If you do not want to do a "special meeting", we can have one of the general meetings dedicated for it. Please tell us the date. I suggest after we have a few star parties under our belt and have a memeorandum of agreement with Bob. Something else, how do we accept the donation of the land to the club? Is a vote of the board of directors enough? Do we need to hold a special vote of the membership? The star parties will tell all. Mike From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 10 23:31:55 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <010001c674c4$990dd370$0300a8c0@robathome> I would rather stick to the agreement I made with Dave and do it at the end. That way we will not be limited in time. It was not in the May Ephemeris because I returned from Europe sick. It is in the June Ephemeris. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 11 00:11:13 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060511032232.96188.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060511032232.96188.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4462E391.9050901@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > Step 2 (tomorrow). Email to bay area astronomers with > more information around Bob's offer to donate the land, > if there is sufficient interest. The purpose of this > email is informational, but also with a slant toward "use > it or lose it" to help motivate people to try the land. There's something about this that makes me a little uneasy. Emphasizing the donation aspect to the SJAA membership is one thing, but to the world is something else--especially at this early juncture--before it's a done deal. The donation is to be made to the *SJAA*, not the astronomy community at large. The "use it or lose it" part is fine, the information about the site part is fine, and I don't mind so much just mentioning that this is a donation in the works, but perhaps tone down that last part for now. I wouldn't want any other astronomy group to get any ideas, if you know what I mean, (except that we plan to make the site open to them). Is this making any sense? Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 11 01:26:35 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <4462F53B.4020808@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > Something else, how do we accept the donation of the land to the club? > Is a vote of the board of directors enough? > Do we need to hold a special vote of the membership? > The star parties will tell all. Since the club has been working on this for the past couple of decades, I think legally the board could do it. However, the diplomatic thing to do would be to have the membership approve, especially on something big like this. Would it be alright to tentatively plan on such a vote at the July meeting? That'd give time to announce it, have a couple of star parties, answer questions, etc. And then, assuming the vote is positive, I think the deal should be completed without delay. Gary From north at znet.com Thu May 11 08:04:39 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <604e64edd0ed9008fa6cae78e707664d@znet.com> On May 10, 2006, at 11:19 PM, Michael Koop wrote: > Is a vote of the board of directors enough? I wouldn't know why not, though I agree with Gary that it would be thoughtful to put it to the membership at large. I'm sensing some time pressure here, though I can see no practical reason for it. Dave From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 11 08:35:28 2006 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: [SJAA-announce] Bob Ayers Prospective LandDonationto SJAA References: <000201c6750b$1d134510$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001301c67510$8899dfb0$55f61345@180edt> I would like to see the land donation project be presented to at this general meeting. If I'm understanding the statement below, it doesn't sound good. If these other groups will have a say in how the site is used and maintained, this could be a nightmare to manage. If this donation is to the SJAA, how does the person making the donation feel about including these other clubs? Have these other groups asked us to participate in their site projects? Thanks, Rich > > The message about the donation and the open house/star party was supposed to > have been forwarded to AANC. It was already sent to TAC (The Astronomy > Connection). > > The scheduling of the presentation is undergoing some internal politics. > There will be a presentation Saturday that fully explains what is being > done, its current state, and why this site is interesting. I just don't > know if it will be during the SJAA meeting, after it, or in the parking lot. > If there is sufficient interest we can schedule additional meeting(s) > including a presentation for the other clubs, but I don't want to take that > step unless there is sufficient interest. > > It is likely that access to the site will be separate from SJAA membership. > There are some legal reasons for this, but your list below is one of the > reasons why that will likely be the case. > > Rob Hawley > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sjaa-chat-bounces@sjaa.net > > [mailto:sjaa-chat-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Charles Crapuchettes > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:49 AM > > To: chat@sjaa.net > > Subject: [SJAA-chat] Re: [SJAA-announce] Bob Ayers > > Prospective Land Donationto SJAA > > > > Rob, > > Have you considered asking other local/regional groups if > > they'd like to participate? > > Some of the more obvious canidates include > > The Astronomy Connection > > Peninsula Astronomical Society > > Santa Cruz Astronomy Club > > Eastbay Astronomical Society > > Mt. Diablo Astronomical Society > > Tri-Valley Stargazers > > Central Valley Astronomers > > Astronomical Association of Northern California You > > probably know of more such groups than I do. > > > > - Chuck C. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAA-chat mailing list > SJAA-chat@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaa-chat > From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 11 08:49:02 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] local/regional groups In-Reply-To: <001301c67510$8899dfb0$55f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <001101c67512$6d1baff0$0300a8c0@robathome> I am not very concerned about this. Craig and I had arraigned for the invitation to be sent to AANC shortly after it was posted on TAC and SJAA-Announce. Unfortunately that has still not been done and I can't do it on my own. The FPOA guys were nice enough to send it to their members even though we might take some observer class members from them. I think the key message that I certainly intend to send is that this >>will<< be a regional resource. While SJAA will manage it, it will be available to all. It adds a lot of credibility my "subscriber" model and its ability for us to argue public purpose when we apply for the welfare exemption. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 11 09:10:26 2006 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] local/regional groups References: <001101c67512$6d1baff0$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <002201c67515$6aee6850$55f61345@180edt> What is the welfare exemption? Thanks, Rich > I am not very concerned about this. > > Craig and I had arraigned for the invitation to be sent to AANC shortly > after it was posted on TAC and SJAA-Announce. Unfortunately that has still > not been done and I can't do it on my own. The FPOA guys were nice enough > to send it to their members even though we might take some observer class > members from them. > > I think the key message that I certainly intend to send is that this > >>will<< be a regional resource. While SJAA will manage it, it will be > available to all. It adds a lot of credibility my "subscriber" model and > its ability for us to argue public purpose when we apply for the welfare > exemption. > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 11 09:23:06 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] local/regional groups In-Reply-To: <002201c67515$6aee6850$55f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <001301c67517$2f76cbd0$0300a8c0@robathome> Sorry you missed that entire discussion in February. Because it involves some legal matters. I will keep it off the remailer. I will forward the messages to you instead. Same offer for anyone else on the list. Just keep discussion on the details off the remailer. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Thu May 11 09:55:02 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land donation summary reply Message-ID: <20060511165502.74379.qmail@web53812.mail.yahoo.com> There are a few questions flying around that I would like to quickly answer: * Bob Ayers land will be donated to the SJAA assuming that we can demonstrate that people will "use it," such as to demonstrate attendance for the upcoming star parties. Rob and I are also saving all of the emails of interest we receive (which are many) because this will further make the "case" that the land should be open to use by the astronomical community. It's not a simple matter of voting. * The communication had to be broad to reach as many people as possible that might potentially use the land. I wish it could be broader given that the Modesto club for example is probably closer than any of the AANC clubs. This communication was done with the board and Bob's permission as discussed a couple months ago. I reviewed specific wording with Bob and also got his permission to do the broad emails to drum up interest. * We never said "other clubs" would be running the Ayers land. Should the donation go through, an SJAA sub-group would run it. Obviously dues paying members of that sub-group would have a say in how the land is run, but we would not be reaching out beyond the subscribers other than for informational purposes to try to attract more users. * We don't really know the constitution of our audience for the saturday general mtg, but we feel given the financial committments required for the land that it is better to err on the side of more communication than less because there is nothing to lose, only to gain. The "gain" is that we may generate interest in people who are not SJAA members that are attending the meeting. We are also prepared to hold any follow-up meetings (progress reports, or informational) as necessary. I hope that helps clear up the confusion. Craig From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri May 12 03:20:21 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <604e64edd0ed9008fa6cae78e707664d@znet.com> References: <00dd01c674b3$4934e890$0300a8c0@robathome> <20060510232543.R80928@koopm.best.vwh.net> <604e64edd0ed9008fa6cae78e707664d@znet.com> Message-ID: <44646165.1080502@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > I'm sensing some time pressure here, though I can see no practical > reason for it. It has to do with deductions for the 2006 tax year. We've already burned through 5 months, it wouldn't take that much foot-dragging to string it out until 2007. Also, just from a practical sense, we don't want to let it drag out too long. There's no reason to think the offer will last forever. Gary From reade at batnet.com Fri May 12 08:00:22 2006 From: reade at batnet.com (Gordon Reade) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: <44646165.1080502@aenet.net> Message-ID: <09388FCF-E1C8-11DA-B29B-0003936961DA@batnet.com> Andrew Hill High School Star Party To make a long story short at about 9:00 pm last night at the Andrew Hill High School Star Party some one saw fit to lob an open bottle of water through the open top of my car thus splashing the instrument panel and upholstery. A sympathetic young student observed, ?I could have been worse.? I agree, it could have been worse. I believe that the SJAA should only seclude events for locations where we have a reasonable expectation of safety. At our next board meeting I?d like to discus and vote on whether or not we should ban Andrew Hill from our list of Star Parties. Personally I have no desire to return and I feel it would be foolish for the club to do so when there are so many other places where we are appreciated. Clear Skies Gordon Reade -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060512/6de49d73/attachment.bin From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 12 09:55:50 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <44646165.1080502@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060512165550.15010.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> At the same time if we rush it without meeting the conditions set forth for the donation we could lose it. Sometimes you have to go with the flow. --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > Dave North wrote: > > > I'm sensing some time pressure here, though I can > see no practical > > reason for it. > > It has to do with deductions for the 2006 tax year. > We've > already burned through 5 months, it wouldn't take that > much > foot-dragging to string it out until 2007. > > Also, just from a practical sense, we don't want to let > it > drag out too long. There's no reason to think the > offer > will last forever. > > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 12 10:04:42 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: <09388FCF-E1C8-11DA-B29B-0003936961DA@batnet.com> Message-ID: <20060512170442.18797.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> If it happened on school property, did you let the school officials know about this? I'm very sorry to hear this. --- Gordon Reade wrote: > Andrew Hill High School Star Party > > To make a long story short at about 9:00 pm last night > at the Andrew > Hill High School Star Party some one saw fit to lob an > open bottle of > water through the open top of my car thus splashing the > instrument panel > and upholstery. A sympathetic young student observed, > ???I could have > been worse.??? I agree, it could have been worse. > > I believe that the SJAA should only seclude events for > locations where > we have a reasonable expectation of safety. At our > next board meeting > I???d like to discus and vote on whether or not we should > ban Andrew Hill > from our list of Star Parties. Personally I have no > desire to return > and I feel it would be foolish for the club to do so > when there are so > many other places where we are appreciated. > > Clear Skies > > Gordon Reade > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From reade at batnet.com Fri May 12 14:18:23 2006 From: reade at batnet.com (Gordon Reade) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: <20060512170442.18797.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I let the teachers who organized the event and were on the playground know. They were very apologetic but they couldn?t really do much. I have been wondering if I should write the school?s principal but I don?t know what good that would do. There were a number of people around when it happened so certainly others must have seen but no one told me who did it. I left the star party feeling like a fool. Maybe if we ban schools like Andrew Hill form our list others will hear and perhaps then we can get a little more respect. Clear Skies Gordon Reade On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Craig Scull wrote: > If it happened on school property, did you let the school > officials know about this? > > I'm very sorry to hear this. > > > > --- Gordon Reade wrote: > >> Andrew Hill High School Star Party >> >> To make a long story short at about 9:00 pm last night >> at the Andrew >> Hill High School Star Party some one saw fit to lob an >> open bottle of >> water through the open top of my car thus splashing the >> instrument panel >> and upholstery. A sympathetic young student observed, >> ???I could have >> been worse.??? I agree, it could have been worse. >> >> I believe that the SJAA should only seclude events for >> locations where >> we have a reasonable expectation of safety. At our >> next board meeting >> I???d like to discus and vote on whether or not we > should >> ban Andrew Hill >> from our list of Star Parties. Personally I have no >> desire to return >> and I feel it would be foolish for the club to do so >> when there are so >> many other places where we are appreciated. >> >> Clear Skies >> >> Gordon Reade >>> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060512/021dd99a/attachment.bin From pkohlmil at best.com Fri May 12 15:18:59 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread Message-ID: <001001c67612$139aaa70$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Hello youngsters (astronomically speaking), The June issue of the Ephemeris is available for review. You can see it at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0606/EphJun06.pdf Thanks for all the comments on the last issue. Please note the call for volunteers to help with Ephemeris circulation - it's on page 2. And this is the issue we talk about the land donation - cover story. This issue goes to the printer early Monday morning (5/15). Please send all comments by then. Thanks. Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060512/d242d96f/attachment.html From north at znet.com Fri May 12 15:46:42 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread In-Reply-To: <001001c67612$139aaa70$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> References: <001001c67612$139aaa70$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <18a3bfd34ea4ca49cbc246bba460ff56@znet.com> > Please note the call for volunteers to help with Ephemeris circulation > - it's on page 2. Looks good to me, Paul, and Bob has already given it his blessing. Dave From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri May 12 15:53:25 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060512161242.X54836@koopm.best.vwh.net> Hi Gordon, I'm really sorry to hear something like this has happened. I know we have been running events over at Andrew Hill for years. Does Jim have any advice to give in such situations? At the very least, I suggest writing that letter to principal. We should document what has happened to help them make sure it does not happen again. Depending on what the response is determines if we return. Maybe more effective action might be to send a letter to the student body or class president. Let them know how this reflects on their school. Make them aware that you were there as a volunteer, on your own free time to show them something cool. One frequent misperception is that we are paid to show up at these events. I hope this one bad apple does not decrease your enthusiasm for our outreach program. Mike On Fri, 12 May 2006, Gordon Reade wrote: > I let the teachers who organized the event and were on the playground know. > They were very apologetic but they couldn’t really do much. I have been > wondering if I should write the school’s principal but I don’t know what good > that would do. > > There were a number of people around when it happened so certainly others > must have seen but no one told me who did it. I left the star party feeling > like a fool. Maybe if we ban schools like Andrew Hill form our list others > will hear and perhaps then we can get a little more respect. > > Clear Skies > > Gordon Reade > > > On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Craig Scull wrote: > >> If it happened on school property, did you let the school >> officials know about this? >> >> I'm very sorry to hear this. >> >> >> >> --- Gordon Reade wrote: >> >>> Andrew Hill High School Star Party >>> >>> To make a long story short at about 9:00 pm last night >>> at the Andrew >>> Hill High School Star Party some one saw fit to lob an >>> open bottle of >>> water through the open top of my car thus splashing the >>> instrument panel >>> and upholstery. A sympathetic young student observed, >>> �I could have >>> been worse.� I agree, it could have been worse. >>> >>> I believe that the SJAA should only seclude events for >>> locations where >>> we have a reasonable expectation of safety. At our >>> next board meeting >>> I�d like to discus and vote on whether or not we >> should >>> ban Andrew Hill >>> from our list of Star Parties. Personally I have no >>> desire to return >>> and I feel it would be foolish for the club to do so >>> when there are so >>> many other places where we are appreciated. >>> >>> Clear Skies >>> >>> Gordon Reade >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> SJAABoard mailing list >>> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 12 17:14:14 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread In-Reply-To: <001001c67612$139aaa70$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <00bf01c67622$2b5b30c0$0300a8c0@robathome> I don't know what your typical schedule is, would it be possible to get the electronic version of the Ephemeris out in advance of mailing? Rob Hawley ________________________________ From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Paul Kohlmiller Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:19 PM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread Hello youngsters (astronomically speaking), The June issue of the Ephemeris is available for review. You can see it at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0606/EphJun06.pdf Thanks for all the comments on the last issue. Please note the call for volunteers to help with Ephemeris circulation - it's on page 2. And this is the issue we talk about the land donation - cover story. This issue goes to the printer early Monday morning (5/15). Please send all comments by then. Thanks. Paul and Mary Kohlmiller From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri May 12 17:23:46 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread In-Reply-To: <00bf01c67622$2b5b30c0$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <00bf01c67622$2b5b30c0$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20060512182248.D54836@koopm.best.vwh.net> I think we also want to expedite the surface mail version also. With any luck, the issue should hit people before the 27th. Mike On Fri, 12 May 2006, Rob Hawley wrote: > I don't know what your typical schedule is, would it be possible to get the > electronic version of the Ephemeris out in advance of mailing? > > > > Rob Hawley > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] > On Behalf Of Paul Kohlmiller > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:19 PM > To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofread > > > Hello youngsters (astronomically speaking), > The June issue of the Ephemeris is available for review. You can see > it at: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0606/EphJun06.pdf > Thanks for all the comments on the last issue. > > Please note the call for volunteers to help with Ephemeris > circulation - it's on page 2. And this is the issue we talk about the land > donation - cover story. > > This issue goes to the printer early Monday morning (5/15). > Please send all comments by then. Thanks. > Paul and Mary Kohlmiller > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 12 18:12:53 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Need CalStar meal discussion on board agenda Message-ID: <00c201c6762a$5c6eff40$0300a8c0@robathome> I was hoping to be further along with the CalStar food stuff by now. I discussed the issues with the folks that run SSP and they were very helpful. Unfortunately they lucked out and got a really good caterer that charges a reasonable price for good food. We have not been so lucky. 1. The caterer we have used in the past has gotten prohibitively expensive. Mainly this is due to changes in their deposits policy. 2. I was also asking around this week and I have been receiving some comments on food quality or at least poor quality/ portion size for the money. 3. On the recommendation of the park I started researching a second caterer. I sent out an email last week on some menu items available for them. Unfortunately these all seem to be cold menu items which I think is a non-starter. 4. They also have a BBQ and if we only offered one selection the cost would be at least reasonable, but probably still in the $16-$18 dollar range for the guests. 5. They also have other menus, but prices were not listed. I was hoping to call them and get more info, but was not able to. I think we need to have firm commitments before the June meeting and hopefully before Memorial Day. What I need from the board are the following decisions A. Do we want to be in the food business again this year (I could go either way)? B. Do we agree that $16-18 delivered is the upper price range? ($18 is a hard limit) C. Is the original caterer out of the running? (I argue yes) D. Should we explore the additional meals that the new caterer offers or just go with the single meat BBQ? (I can't answer this one) E. Am I empowered to make the decision or can we close this via an email vote? I got almost no response to my previous email. F. Is SJAA going to commit to running a grill and if so which of you is going to make a firm commitment to run it. (I want no part of the grill other than asking the park to deliver it). If we make this commitment then people will depend on it. One of the items I did get from SSP is their refund policy. Refunds are available until about 24 hrs before they have to commit to a number. After that the meal is purchased. Since there has not been a lot of mail list discussion on that point I would do the same. We previously decided that we would not collect money at the site. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 13 03:33:36 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Bob Ayers star party/donation communication plan In-Reply-To: <20060512165550.15010.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060512165550.15010.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4465B600.2060408@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > At the same time if we rush it without meeting the > conditions set forth for the donation we could lose it. > > Sometimes you have to go with the flow. No one's suggesting we be too hasty, and certainly not suggesting we fail to meet the conditions. But at the same time, let's keep the foot dragging to a minimum. Last I heard, Bob Ayers wanted it done this year. That's the main thing. If he's OK with waiting until 2007 or whenever, that's up to him. Gary > > --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > > >>Dave North wrote: >> >> >>> I'm sensing some time pressure here, though I can >> >>see no practical >> >>>reason for it. >> >>It has to do with deductions for the 2006 tax year. >>We've >>already burned through 5 months, it wouldn't take that >>much >>foot-dragging to string it out until 2007. >> >>Also, just from a practical sense, we don't want to let >>it >>drag out too long. There's no reason to think the >>offer >>will last forever. >> >>Gary >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>SJAABoard mailing list >>SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 13 04:03:14 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: <09388FCF-E1C8-11DA-B29B-0003936961DA@batnet.com> References: <09388FCF-E1C8-11DA-B29B-0003936961DA@batnet.com> Message-ID: <4465BCF2.3050800@aenet.net> Gordon Reade wrote: > Andrew Hill High School Star Party > > To make a long story short at about 9:00 pm last night at the Andrew > Hill High School Star Party some one saw fit to lob an open bottle of > water through the open top of my car thus splashing the instrument panel > and upholstery. A sympathetic young student observed, ?I could have > been worse.? I agree, it could have been worse. > > I believe that the SJAA should only seclude events for locations where > we have a reasonable expectation of safety. At our next board meeting > I?d like to discus and vote on whether or not we should ban Andrew Hill > from our list of Star Parties. Personally I have no desire to return > and I feel it would be foolish for the club to do so when there are so > many other places where we are appreciated. > > Clear Skies > > Gordon Reade From what I heard at the time, I'm not completely convinced it was a deliberate malicious act. It could have been a few kids screwing around and your car just happened to be in the way. That is, maybe couple of boys were horsing around, throwing water at each other, one ducks and your car was behind him. And then, seeing what happened, they all quickly walk away and no one knows anything. At any time, did you get a sense that someone was upset or unhappy about anything? Waiting in line, or couldn't see much, or whatever? If it was a malicious act, it seems like a pretty lame thing to do. I mean, of all the malicious acts that could be done, this wouldn't be near the top of my list. It doesn't even make sense. I'm not suggesting you (we) should just take it lying down, but at the same time, unless we know almost for sure that it was malicious, would it be too much to ask that we not assume the worst intention? Pretty much everyone at my scope seemed appreciative. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 13 04:23:13 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Andrew Hill High School Star Party In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4465C1A1.50803@aenet.net> Gordon Reade wrote: > I let the teachers who organized the event and were on the playground > know. They were very apologetic but they couldn?t really do much. I > have been wondering if I should write the school?s principal but I don?t > know what good that would do. > > There were a number of people around when it happened so certainly > others must have seen but no one told me who did it. I left the star > party feeling like a fool. Maybe if we ban schools like Andrew Hill > form our list others will hear and perhaps then we can get a little more > respect. Perhaps that's what you should say, if you decide to write that letter to the principal. Still, I wonder about painting all those kids or the whole school with a broad brush, based on the actions of one. Out of all the school star parties I've been to, including several times at Andrew Hill, this is the first time I can recall anything resembling a malicious act. There have been plenty of "incidents"... running around and tripping on something or sticky fingers on eyepieces, but nothing intentionally malicious. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 13 05:07:53 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Need CalStar meal discussion on board agenda In-Reply-To: <00c201c6762a$5c6eff40$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <00c201c6762a$5c6eff40$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4465CC19.4090804@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > I was hoping to be further along with the CalStar food stuff by now. I > E. Am I empowered to make the decision or can we close this via an email > vote? I got almost no response to my previous email. Well, I for one am comfortable empowering you to make the decisions. There's one vote. As to the specifics, I don't have any strong feelings one way or another. Whatever seems to make the most sense. So long as SJAA doesn't get left holding the bag. Gary From pkohlmil at best.com Sat May 13 14:47:56 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Possible Land Donation on front page Message-ID: <006401c676d6$e5c28fd0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> I put a mention of the Land Donation article on the sjaa.net front page. PK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060513/2e3ee842/attachment.html From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Sat May 13 17:00:33 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Possible Land Donation on front page In-Reply-To: <006401c676d6$e5c28fd0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> References: <006401c676d6$e5c28fd0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <20060513175715.D25751@koopm.best.vwh.net> Hi Paul, Could you also add links to the star party on May 27 via the SJAA Announce http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaa-announce/2006-May/000670.html and a link to Rob's Presentation on http://www.robhawley.net/May06_presentation.pdf thanks. Mike On Sat, 13 May 2006, Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > I put a mention of the Land Donation article on the sjaa.net front page. PK From pkohlmil at best.com Sat May 13 17:23:05 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Possible Land Donation on front page References: <006401c676d6$e5c28fd0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> <20060513175715.D25751@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <002301c676ec$91f5c3c0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Done. PK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Koop" To: "Business list for SJAA board of directors and members" Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Possible Land Donation on front page > Hi Paul, > Could you also add links to the star party on May 27 via the SJAA Announce > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaa-announce/2006-May/000670.html > and a link to Rob's Presentation on > http://www.robhawley.net/May06_presentation.pdf > > thanks. > > Mike > > On Sat, 13 May 2006, Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > > I put a mention of the Land Donation article on the sjaa.net front page. PK > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From pkohlmil at best.com Sun May 14 00:22:27 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Message-ID: <000801c67727$2a6bde20$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Due to a veritable onslaught of late submissions to the Ephemeris, major re-editing was done on pages 1,2 and 6. It is at the same place: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0606/EphJun06.pdf We are still trying to get it to the printer Monday morning (around 10 a.m.). Thanks, Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060514/10cb34f9/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun May 14 09:52:59 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <000801c67727$2a6bde20$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <20060514165259.64156.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Paul In the second to last paragraph of our "Possible Land Donation to the Club" article, please change "Craig and Rob have been studying the site" to "We have been studying the site" Also, in the paragraph before that, please remove the "too" that's at the end of the 2nd sentence. thanks! Craig --- Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Due to a veritable onslaught of late submissions to the > Ephemeris, major re-editing was done on pages 1,2 and > 6. It is at the same place: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0606/EphJun06.pdf > > We are still trying to get it to the printer Monday > morning (around 10 a.m.). > Thanks, > Paul and Mary Kohlmiller> _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun May 14 09:55:59 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Mar 11, 2005 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <20060514165600.45758.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> Here is the "final" copy of the March meeting minutes. Please look this over one last time and reply with any changes. Thanks again to Gordon for the notes. --- Craig Scull wrote: > I put Gordon's notes in the standard note template > below. > This should be a helpful in case there are any gaps > that > need to be filled in. > > > > ============================================== > Mar 11, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull > ============================================== > For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one copy > of > the last month?s minutes for the upcoming board meeting > and send out a final edited version the next day. > > Reminder - Any key government documents should also be > included in the minutes. > > > --------------------- > Board Members Present > --------------------- > Gary Mitchell > Craig Scull (absent, not excused) > Dana Crom > Dave North > Rob Hawley > Bill O?Shaughnessy > Gordon Reade > Mike Koop > Jim Van Nuland > Rich Neuschaefer > > > --------------- > Meeting minutes > --------------- > Minutes were approved from the last meeting. Bill (?) > passed a motion to approve the minutes, the motion was > seconded and approved by the rest of the board members > present with no abstentions. > > > ---------------------- > Treasury Report (Gary) > ---------------------- > The checkbook is currently showing $6448.55 > > > ---------------------------------------------- > Membership Report (Rob) > ---------------------------------------------- > Specifics not listed, but overall status is ?good.? > > > ---------------------------------- > Loaner Scope Program Report (Mike) > ---------------------------------- > Doing well. 2 requests for the solar scope. > > There were questions about how we should sell the clubs > > Schmidt-Cassegrain, either at the club auction or on > eBay. > > > ------------------------------------------- > Observational Astronomy Class Report (Mike) > ------------------------------------------- > (no updates) > > > ---------------- > ATM Class (Mike) > ---------------- > (no updates) > > > ------------------------------- > General Meeting Programs (Dave) > ------------------------------- > (no updates) > > > --------------------------- > Observatory Committee > --------------------------- > The general consensus of the board of directors was > that > the offer of land for an observing site was too good to > pass up. However it was decided that we should have > some > Memorandum of Agreement between the Donor and the SJAA > before we vote on the matter. > > > ---------------------------- > Star Party Updates > ---------------------------- > (no updates) > > > -------------- > Calendar (Jim) > -------------- > (no updates) > From bhavner at sbcglobal.net Sun May 14 18:26:17 2006 From: bhavner at sbcglobal.net (Bob & Brenda Havner) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Fw: Night Sky Network Message: The Scoop on Hubble and much more! Message-ID: <001101c677be$923905e0$60d9fea9@Turtlerock> There are changes to the allocation of the NS Magazine. I will have to cut the number to 26 magazines per issue for the remainder of the year. (200 per year are allowed). They are allowing a link (se below) to free digital issues to be posted on our website. I have looked at this months (May / June) issue and it is the entire magazine, cover to cover, including advertisements available online! There are a few pop-up's for subscription offers but hey they are in the business of selling magazines. I will continue ordering for now and forward links to the new issues as they come available. Bob > Update To Free Night Sky Magazines Offer Night Sky Magazine is very grateful for all your efforts in getting Night Sky into the hands of so many people at your astronomy events. We wanted to let you know of changes to this program: 1. Each member club of the Night Sky Network may receive 200 copies in one year, no more than 100 at one time. You may spread the 200 issues out over a year any way you like. The method of ordering your magazines has not changed - as outlined in the prior post. 2. Display a link to a free digital issue of Night Sky Magazine on your club website. For more information on this generous offer from Night Sky magazine, how to set up the link, and how to order your free magazines, log into the Night Sky Network (http://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/) and click on "Discussion Board", then on "Announcements". BREAKING NEWS! The latest issue of the Night Sky Magazine is now online! Copy and paste this link into your browser: http://www.nightskymag-digital.com/nightskymag/200605/?utm_source=NSN%2Bmember%2Bclubs&utm_medium=NS%2Bdigital%2Bissue&utm_content=NS%2Bmay-june&utm_campaign=NS%2BMay%2BJune%2BDigital%2BIssue From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 15 00:12:47 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <20060514165259.64156.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060514165259.64156.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <446829EF.6090405@aenet.net> It's no biggie, but shouldn't this sort of thing be sent directly to the editor instead of the board remailer? Gary Craig Scull wrote: > Hi Paul > > In the second to last paragraph of our "Possible Land > Donation to the Club" article, please change "Craig and > Rob have been studying the site" to "We have been > studying the site" > > Also, in the paragraph before that, please remove the > "too" that's at the end of the 2nd sentence. > > thanks! > Craig > From craigus at rocketmail.com Mon May 15 00:22:43 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <446829EF.6090405@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060515072243.62773.qmail@web53808.mail.yahoo.com> Maybe so. I've never sent in comments before, and I just remembered seeing other people's comments sent this way, and doing what I thought the Romans do. I still haven't figure out if I'm in Rome though. --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > It's no biggie, but shouldn't this sort of thing be > sent > directly to the editor instead of the board remailer? > > Gary > > > Craig Scull wrote: > > Hi Paul > > > > In the second to last paragraph of our "Possible Land > > Donation to the Club" article, please change "Craig > and > > Rob have been studying the site" to "We have been > > studying the site" > > > > Also, in the paragraph before that, please remove the > > "too" that's at the end of the 2nd sentence. > > > > thanks! > > Craig > > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue May 16 10:01:36 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar 11, 2006 - Final SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <20060516170136.32102.qmail@web53813.mail.yahoo.com> No comments were received. Here's the final version for the record. /Craig --- Craig Scull wrote: > Here is the "final" copy of the March meeting minutes. > Please look this over one last time and reply with any > changes. Thanks again to Gordon for the notes. > > > --- Craig Scull wrote: > > I put Gordon's notes in the standard note template > > below. > > This should be a helpful in case there are any gaps > > that > > need to be filled in. > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > Mar 11, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig > Scull > > ============================================== > > For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one copy > > of > > the last month?s minutes for the upcoming board > meeting > > and send out a final edited version the next day. > > > > Reminder - Any key government documents should also > be > > included in the minutes. > > > > > > --------------------- > > Board Members Present > > --------------------- > > Gary Mitchell > > Craig Scull (absent, not excused) > > Dana Crom > > Dave North > > Rob Hawley > > Bill O?Shaughnessy > > Gordon Reade > > Mike Koop > > Jim Van Nuland > > Rich Neuschaefer > > > > > > --------------- > > Meeting minutes > > --------------- > > Minutes were approved from the last meeting. Bill > (?) > > passed a motion to approve the minutes, the motion > was > > seconded and approved by the rest of the board > members > > present with no abstentions. > > > > > > ---------------------- > > Treasury Report (Gary) > > ---------------------- > > The checkbook is currently showing $6448.55 > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Membership Report (Rob) > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Specifics not listed, but overall status is ?good.? > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > Loaner Scope Program Report (Mike) > > ---------------------------------- > > Doing well. 2 requests for the solar scope. > > > > There were questions about how we should sell the > clubs > > > > Schmidt-Cassegrain, either at the club auction or on > > eBay. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Observational Astronomy Class Report (Mike) > > ------------------------------------------- > > (no updates) > > > > > > ---------------- > > ATM Class (Mike) > > ---------------- > > (no updates) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > General Meeting Programs (Dave) > > ------------------------------- > > (no updates) > > > > > > --------------------------- > > Observatory Committee > > --------------------------- > > The general consensus of the board of directors was > > that > > the offer of land for an observing site was too good > to > > pass up. However it was decided that we should have > > some > > Memorandum of Agreement between the Donor and the > SJAA > > before we vote on the matter. > > > > > > ---------------------------- > > Star Party Updates > > ---------------------------- > > (no updates) > > > > > > -------------- > > Calendar (Jim) > > -------------- > > (no updates) > > > > From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 16 13:35:03 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: [FPOA-Board] Sending a message to members Message-ID: <00c501c67928$362b2dd0$0300a8c0@robathome> I am going to be down at Willow Springs. Does anyone else want to head up to Coe? Rob Hawley _____ From: Dammann, Ron [mailto:ron.dammann@lmco.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:10 PM To: FPOA Board of Directors; robhawley@earthlink.net; koopm@best.com Cc: jverhoeven@parks.ca.gov Subject: RE: [FPOA-Board] Sending a message to members Dave and John, The San Jose Astronomical Association usually observes at Coe and if their members are available, I am sure they would want to help out. Mike Koop and Rob Hawley are the persons who would probably know about observers at Coe this weekend. I have added them to this reply. Ron Dammann -----Original Message----- From: fpoa-board-bounces@fpoa.net [mailto:fpoa-board-bounces@fpoa.net] On Behalf Of Samuels_David@emc.com Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:53 AM To: fpoa-board@fpoa.net Cc: jverhoeven@parks.ca.gov Subject: [FPOA-Board] Sending a message to members John Verhoeven, one of the rangers, is looking for help at an event he is doing at Coe this weekend. I am unable to help. I was thinking maybe we could forward a request to the members and allow them to get in touch with him to volunteer. He is looking for one or more persons to set up a scope to show the attendees Saturn, Jupiter, and a whatever other neat things visible from the site... perhaps the comet, but I think it might be too early for that. Can any of you advise me on this? Thanks Dave EMC: The Leader in Enterprise Content Management Dave Samuels Sr. Instructional Designer Phone: (+1) 925.600.6152 samuels_david@emc.com Fax: (+1) 925.600.6843 www.documentum.com -----Original Message----- From: John Verhoeven [ mailto:jverhoeven@parks.ca.gov] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:27 PM To: Samuels, David Subject: Stargazing at Coe David, Hey there, how are you doing? I am following up on our conversation a while back about possibly haveing someone from the San Jose Astronomical Society to come up and assist me at the Coe Visitor Center. Is that person you mentioned interested in bringing a telescope up on Saturday May 20th? I am sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. If you need to call me feel free at my home number (831) 623-9087. I hope you got some sleep from when we last talked. Thank you! John John Verhoeven State Park Peace Officer Gavilan Sector Office PO Box 787 San Juan Bautista, CA 95045 (831) 623-1948 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060516/213bed6c/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 16 19:36:52 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] New CalStar page is up Message-ID: <00ed01c6795a$c1f479c0$0300a8c0@robathome> Since I still don't have a caterer yet that is a big TBD, but you can see the new look of the 2006 CalStar pages. www.sjaa.net/calstar I plan to fix up the fonts some more in a couple of weeks. I also updated the officers list since it did not reflect the Feb and March elections. Rob Hawley From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu May 18 16:25:40 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Arrived Yesterday Message-ID: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> I received the May issue of the Ephemeris on Wednesday, May 17th. When have other board members received their issue? Knowing how bulk mail works, we might have to start using first class postage to get these out more timely. I know we have a bigger problem for the not a resident of San Jose people. Mike From jvn at svpal.org Thu May 18 17:01:39 2006 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Arrived Yesterday References: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <446D0AE3.5A8@svpal.org> Michael Koop wrote: > > I received the May issue of the Ephemeris on Wednesday, May 17th. Mine came on May 16. > Knowing how bulk mail works, we might have to start using first class > postage to get these out more timely. > I know we have a bigger problem for the not a resident of San Jose > people. Maybe 1st class for the non-resident subset who are near enough to come to meetings. Not needed for most exchange newsletters. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From north at znet.com Thu May 18 17:05:35 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Arrived Yesterday In-Reply-To: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <3f737a647993ffaa41227a51c13d1d88@znet.com> Michael Koop wrote: > Knowing how bulk mail works, we might have to start using first class > postage to get these out more timely. Knowing how increasingly difficult it is for Lew and Bob to get the mail to the post office, I'd start by finding out when it was delivered. Before getting all carried away, that is. Won't be a problem much longer anyway. Dave From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri May 19 02:39:32 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Arrived Yesterday In-Reply-To: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20060518172116.Y76709@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <446D9254.3010607@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > I received the May issue of the Ephemeris on Wednesday, May 17th. > When have other board members received their issue? Mine showed up on the 16th, I'm in the 95124 zip. > Knowing how bulk mail works, we might have to start using first class > postage to get these out more timely. Or couldn't we just mail them out a little earlier? > I know we have a bigger problem for the not a resident of San Jose people. Assuming it's dropped off at the Lundy facility, the 950xx and 951xx zips should be delivered fairly quickly. Some of the 940xx zips too, but not quite as fast. The others will take longer, maybe even a week or two for some. It's more work to prepare bulk-mail, but the postage is roughly half. I understand we send out about 300 pieces, so we're talking about approximately $60 difference. Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 19 16:30:24 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:32 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Got my SJAA Ephemeris today Message-ID: <20060519233024.1577.qmail@web53812.mail.yahoo.com> since you asked.. From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 19 16:50:25 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default Message-ID: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> With the discussion of the delays in Bulk mail and the proposal that we switch to first class I would like to offer a more radical solution. Make electronic distribution our preferred delivery method. A little advertised feature of the membership database is a field that indicates that the member has elected electronic distribution. For those members we do not generate a mail label and the member simply reads the Ephemeris when Paul publishes it. I have been on electronic distribution for a little over a year. Needless to say there are some real benefits of electronic distribution for both the club members and the club. It is far cheaper to distribute electronically ($0). Since the Ephemeris is a significant part of the club dues that is an important savings. There is no delay. Paul maintains an archive on line so it is possible to refer back to old issues. If most of the members switch we could then easily afford to mail the rest using first class greatly simplifying the distribution process. The only downside that I can think of off hand is that at some point Accuprint loses interest. Everything else is upside. The switch would be voluntary for existing members, but new members would be started on electronic unless they asked for a paper copy. At present we don't even tell anyone that electronic distribution is an option since I was told we need a certain critical mass to maintain our bulk mailing permit. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Fri May 19 17:13:28 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default In-Reply-To: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > At present we don't even tell anyone that electronic distribution is > an option since I was told we need a certain critical mass to maintain > our bulk mailing permit. 125 is the lower limit. Since we're nowhere near that, I suspect the main reason people aren't made aware is ... that nobody gets around to making them aware. Not really an issue anyway, since if it dropped to 124 (and membership remained the same as it is now) the cost would be far lower anyway. Accuprint's interest in this is complex and historic. As time goes by it will be unpredictable what their take will be. I would not care to guess what percentage of the membership actually prefers to have a paper copy, for whatever personal reason. Surprisingly few people opted for electronic delivery back when it was actively offered, and the advantages to the club were explained. Some may consider it interesting (this is beltway newspeak) that delivery via email has never been an option. Dave From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 19 19:30:33 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default In-Reply-To: <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> Message-ID: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> We've discussed this before and decided that the print newsletter (and loaner scope program) are just about the only incentives for paying your SJAA membership dues as compared to getting all the information from the web and attending the free meetings and events. If we looked at this like a business we would say - if we do this, are we going to lose an amount of membership dues that exceeds the money saved from the eliminated printing/mailing costs? However, in our situation we have an educational mission and are trying to reach a larger audience, so I don't think that is the right question to ask. I think we should all look carefully before we "leap" on this one. --- Dave North wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: > > At present we don't even tell anyone that electronic > distribution is > > an option since I was told we need a certain critical > mass to maintain > > our bulk mailing permit. > > 125 is the lower limit. Since we're nowhere near that, > I suspect the > main reason people aren't made aware is ... that nobody > gets around to > making them aware. > Not really an issue anyway, since if it dropped to 124 > (and membership > remained the same as it is now) the cost would be far > lower anyway. > Accuprint's interest in this is complex and historic. > As time goes by > it will be unpredictable what their take will be. > I would not care to guess what percentage of the > membership actually > prefers to have a paper copy, for whatever personal > reason. > Surprisingly few people opted for electronic delivery > back when it was > actively offered, and the advantages to the club were > explained. > Some may consider it interesting (this is beltway > newspeak) that > delivery via email has never been an option. > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 20 04:17:53 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default In-Reply-To: <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> References: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> Message-ID: <446EFAE1.4050904@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: > >> At present we don't even tell anyone that electronic distribution is >> an option since I was told we need a certain critical mass to maintain >> our bulk mailing permit. > > > 125 is the lower limit. Unless there has been some change that I haven't heard of, the post office requires a 200 piece minimum for small non-profit bulk-mailers. It's 1000 for everyone else. Maybe you're thinking of the break-even price point. For that, 125 sounds about right. In other words if we mail 75 bogus copies to meet the 200 count requirement, the postage cost would be about the same as mailing 125 at first class. This doesn't take into account printing costs, just postage of bulk mail vs first class. If we include printing costs, that lower limit would increase significantly. > Since we're nowhere near that, I suspect the > main reason people aren't made aware is ... that nobody gets around to > making them aware. I can't speak for others, but I'm aware and yet I still prefer getting a paper copy. Those members who get the Ephemeris electronically would be justified in asking for a substantial discount. Are we ready for that? This would make a very big difference in the calculations. Ultimately, if we were fair about it, I don't think we'd realize significant savings. Gary > Not really an issue anyway, since if it dropped to 124 (and > membership remained the same as it is now) the cost would be far lower > anyway. > Accuprint's interest in this is complex and historic. As time goes > by it will be unpredictable what their take will be. > I would not care to guess what percentage of the membership actually > prefers to have a paper copy, for whatever personal reason. Surprisingly > few people opted for electronic delivery back when it was actively > offered, and the advantages to the club were explained. > Some may consider it interesting (this is beltway newspeak) that > delivery via email has never been an option. > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From north at znet.com Sat May 20 09:01:14 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default In-Reply-To: <446EFAE1.4050904@aenet.net> References: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> <446EFAE1.4050904@aenet.net> Message-ID: <1678c45d4557015a0515237c000196cf@znet.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: > Unless there has been some change that I haven't heard of, > the post office requires a 200 piece minimum for small > non-profit bulk-mailers. My bad; you're quite right. > Maybe you're thinking of the break-even price point. It's good of you to think up and excuse for me :) but the fact is I'm simply working from out-of-date information. The last time I looked (and you can see it has not been recently) the lower limit was 125! Or my memory is faulty; a perfectly reasonable proposition. > This doesn't take into account printing costs Didn't want to mention it, though I was aware of it. The basic message isn't changed much -- which is that first class mailing would still be fine if the number of recipients was reduced. And as you supposed, 200 still works out fine. Note that also not mentioned is the annual fee for the "standard" (formerly bulk) mail permit. But I think that only amounts to a little under $14 a month. Also, if I recall correctly, the per-piece rate we're paying is about 17 cents, as opposed to 39 for first class. The difference is 22 cents per, or about $70 per month. Which is pretty close to your estimate of $60. Our total cost per month for mailing alone should be approximately $69 (the list is around 320 right now). The cost of mailing 200 pieces first class would be $78. So if we suddenly dropped 120 people (technically 121) from the mailing list, the cost to the club would be $9 per month in mailing fees. Of course, the cost of printing would also drop by much more than that $9, so there's no denying that it would be cheaper to end up in the "First Class Mail" pool, even at a threshold of 200. > I can't speak for others, but I'm aware and yet I still prefer getting > a paper copy. Most people clearly preferred the paper copy the last time we checked. Which is not hard to understand. But admittedly, it has been quite a while since we checked. Doing so without "pressuring" members to eschew the mailed copy is a delicate matter. Dave From sol.man at indigoskies.com Sat May 20 11:52:26 2006 From: sol.man at indigoskies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> Craig Scull wrote: > We've discussed this before and decided that the print > newsletter (and loaner scope program) are just about the > only incentives for paying your SJAA membership dues ... > > If we looked at this like a business we would say ... I posit there are ways to cut costs and still maintain the value of membership. However, doing so would mean changing the club's "business model" a bit. While I know how popular "change" can be, here are some free ideas, nonetheless... * Keep the loaner scope program as a members-only benefit. * Keep the magazine discount as a member benefit, and work on obtaining other similar association/business discount arrangements for members. * Eliminate the cost and time associated with printing and mailing the Ephemeris. People who seriously want to read it on trees can generally print an "original copy" for themselves via the PDF. The rest will happily read the PDF or the HTML versions on screen. Delivery is immediate, and notifications by email can only enhance that effect. * Lower the membership dues commensurate with the eliminated production and delivery costs -- the lower price would entice more people to join. * Provide the FULL Ephemeris web content (plus the PDF version and all archives) available online only to members. The events calendar and a few other choice pieces could be left publicly viewable each month. * Consider making classes and/or other such functions for members, while leaving at least the general sessions open to all. * Continue having public star parties every month as usual, but consider having at least one members-only event as well - something not advertised on the public web, but available in a members area of the website (and/or forum or email list for members). Make a big deal of this benefit, with as much ballyhoo as you can muster. Have them include a pre-sunset potluck social. Make people *want* to be there. * Have access to the (impending) SJAA Dark Sky Site contingent upon membership, with some kind of guest registration and/or limit to prevent abuses. Regards, Mark Taylor Emeritus Board Member, Treasurer From akkana at shallowsky.com Sat May 20 18:54:59 2006 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <20060521015459.GB29155@shallowsky.com> I like all of Mark's suggestions with two hesitations: Mark Taylor writes: > * Provide the FULL Ephemeris web content (plus the PDF version and > all archives) available online only to members. The events calendar and > a few other choice pieces could be left publicly viewable each month. I like having the online Ephemeris available to all. Now and then I have occasion to point someone outside the club to an old Ephemeris article. Sometimes these are even local people who might eventually join the club. A good newsletter is good advertising -- isn't that why we make paper copies available at Orion? Also, the online Ephemeris increases our googleability. I've hit sjaa.net more than once when googling for topics astronomical. > * Consider making classes and/or other such functions for members, > while leaving at least the general sessions open to all. I like the idea for some functions, like the ATM class, but maybe not for the beginning astronomy class, which is a good lure to a prospective member interested in learning about observing. (The class last night included someone like that; I hope she'll join and check out a telescope from the loaner program.) > * Continue having public star parties every month as usual, but > consider having at least one members-only event as well - something not > advertised on the public web, but available in a members area of the > website (and/or forum or email list for members). Make a big deal of > this benefit, with as much ballyhoo as you can muster. Have them > include a pre-sunset potluck social. Make people *want* to be there. More parties! Food! Yay! Could also be billed specifically as a place for budding observers to get help with observing or telescope setup (more personal attention than at a big public event with zillions of people in line). Might work better on Saturday than Friday due to people's work schedules. > * Have access to the (impending) SJAA Dark Sky Site contingent upon > membership, with some kind of guest registration and/or limit to prevent > abuses. Another good one. Maintaining the site will probably take volunteer effort which might end up being diverted from other club functions. Luring in new members who come because they're interested in the dark sky site might help offset this. -- ...Akkana Check out my book, "Beginning GIMP: From Novice to Professional". Now shipping! For more information: http://gimpbook.com From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun May 21 00:01:36 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <20060521015459.GB29155@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20060521070136.64323.qmail@web53801.mail.yahoo.com> All of these "members-only" ideas assume that we would not be financially successful using an "honor system." I tend to have been surprised more often than not at how well honor systems work. I'm sure others may have had the opposite experience. A researcher/scientist by training, you will often find that I am data driven, choosing to formulate questions and then create experiments to see what the "real" answer is, given widely varying assumptions about the outcome. In this case I find myself being impressed with the "solutions" being discussed, but also wondering if we are or are not trying to solve a problem which only exists in our minds right now - namely this idea that people would stop paying membership if we gave them an electronic copy of the ephemeris and let them elect to get the print version on request. That's my .02 at the moment. I would be supportive if anyone wanted to try offering electronic distribution (with the print version available by request) and then see what happens. Relatedly, I also think the members-only ideas are interesting to kick around. I'm not sure how many grab me yet, but I'll think about them some more tomorrow. --- Akkana Peck wrote: > I like all of Mark's suggestions with two hesitations: > > Mark Taylor writes: > > * Provide the FULL Ephemeris web content (plus the > PDF version and > > all archives) available online only to members. The > events calendar and > > a few other choice pieces could be left publicly > viewable each month. > > I like having the online Ephemeris available to all. > Now and then I > have occasion to point someone outside the club to an > old Ephemeris > article. Sometimes these are even local people who > might eventually > join the club. A good newsletter is good advertising -- > isn't that > why we make paper copies available at Orion? > > Also, the online Ephemeris increases our googleability. > I've hit > sjaa.net more than once when googling for topics > astronomical. > > > * Consider making classes and/or other such > functions for members, > > while leaving at least the general sessions open to > all. > > I like the idea for some functions, like the ATM class, > but maybe > not for the beginning astronomy class, which is a good > lure to > a prospective member interested in learning about > observing. > (The class last night included someone like that; I > hope > she'll join and check out a telescope from the loaner > program.) > > > * Continue having public star parties every month > as usual, but > > consider having at least one members-only event as > well - something not > > advertised on the public web, but available in a > members area of the > > website (and/or forum or email list for members). > Make a big deal of > > this benefit, with as much ballyhoo as you can > muster. Have them > > include a pre-sunset potluck social. Make people > *want* to be there. > > More parties! Food! Yay! Could also be billed > specifically as > a place for budding observers to get help with > observing or > telescope setup (more personal attention than at a big > public > event with zillions of people in line). Might work > better on > Saturday than Friday due to people's work schedules. > > > * Have access to the (impending) SJAA Dark Sky > Site contingent upon > > membership, with some kind of guest registration > and/or limit to prevent > > abuses. > > Another good one. Maintaining the site will probably > take volunteer > effort which might end up being diverted from other > club functions. > Luring in new members who come because they're > interested in the > dark sky site might help offset this. > > -- > ...Akkana > Check out my book, "Beginning GIMP: From Novice to > Professional". > Now shipping! For more information: > http://gimpbook.com > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun May 21 03:32:52 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default In-Reply-To: <1678c45d4557015a0515237c000196cf@znet.com> References: <002a01c67b9f$005b7c90$0300a8c0@robathome> <14729b7ada8de75e6adafec5ef130b38@znet.com> <446EFAE1.4050904@aenet.net> <1678c45d4557015a0515237c000196cf@znet.com> Message-ID: <447041D4.7090302@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Note that also not mentioned is the annual fee for the "standard" > (formerly bulk) mail permit. But I think that only amounts to a little > under $14 a month. > Also, if I recall correctly, the per-piece rate we're paying is > about 17 cents, as opposed to 39 for first class. The difference is 22 > cents per, or about $70 per month. Which is pretty close to your > estimate of $60. I added some as a rough estimate for the contribution of the annual bulk-mail fee. It's hard to calculate the bulk-mail postage itself. I haven't done it in a while, but unless they've changed, the cost depends on the zip code, it's not exactly 17 cents for every piece. We all need to be clear here... What exactly are we after, to save money? If we e-mail most newsletters and then cut the dues accordingly, it'll be a wash (assuming it's done accurately). If we don't cut the dues, how do we justify not doing so? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun May 21 03:48:55 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> Message-ID: <44704597.50301@aenet.net> Mark Taylor wrote: > I posit there are ways to cut costs and still maintain the value of membership. > * Eliminate the cost and time associated with printing and mailing > the Ephemeris. People who seriously want to read it on trees can > generally print an "original copy" for themselves via the PDF. The rest > will happily read the PDF or the HTML versions on screen. Delivery is > immediate, and notifications by email can only enhance that effect. > * Lower the membership dues commensurate with the eliminated > production and delivery costs -- the lower price would entice more > people to join. Yeah, well, there's the kicker right there. Those two go hand in hand. If we lessen our expenses on copying and mailing the Ephemeris, only to match it in dues reduction, there's no net savings. > * Provide the FULL Ephemeris web content (plus the PDF version and > all archives) available online only to members. The events calendar and > a few other choice pieces could be left publicly viewable each month. > * Consider making classes and/or other such functions for members, > while leaving at least the general sessions open to all. > * Continue having public star parties every month as usual, but > consider having at least one members-only event as well - something not > advertised on the public web, but available in a members area of the > website (and/or forum or email list for members). Make a big deal of > this benefit, with as much ballyhoo as you can muster. Have them > include a pre-sunset potluck social. Make people *want* to be there. Mike has talked about this sort of thing too, making it more "valuable" to people to actually be members. It's a valid enough concern. However, I personally don't like all these "members only" things, it's too cliquish for my tastes. Something like the loaner program is different, there's property involved there. But sections of the web site or members only star parties are contrived, there's no real reason for it to be members only, except for the purpose of it being for members only. Also, I believe this goes against the SJAA's charter. We're supposed to be a public benefit organization. It's hard to be that while locking out all but members from some activities. > * Have access to the (impending) SJAA Dark Sky Site contingent upon > membership, with some kind of guest registration and/or limit to prevent > abuses. That's been talked about, I even suggested it myself. However, there are legal reasons for not requiring SJAA membership. For one thing, by being more open we might be able to eliminate the property tax (about a grand per year). Gary From north at znet.com Sun May 21 09:29:08 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <44704597.50301@aenet.net> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <44704597.50301@aenet.net> Message-ID: <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: > If we lessen our expenses on copying and mailing the Ephemeris, only > to match it in dues reduction, there's no net savings. Right. I think what Mark is proposing is exactly that. Not a way to save money per member, but a way to lower the barrier to membership, perhaps acquiring more members. It's a "volume discount" gamble. Converting from, say, a JC Penny model to a Walmart model. I'd guess it would probably allow dropping the dues by about $5. The charm of this idea is that the Ephemeris is the one cost that essentially scales with membership (does the insurance? I might be wrong about that). Expansion without fixed overhead means more funds to play with. Especially useful if the club then occasionally finds a way to actually spend some of those funds on things that support the charter and contribute to the interest of members. > Mike has talked about this sort of thing too, making it > more "valuable" to people to actually be members. It might be interesting to combine Mike's and Mark's approaches then. For example, if most people think keeping the entire Ephemeris online is a good thing, then leave it that way. However, one of Mark's suggestions was to have a monthly Members-Only star party. Now I'm not saying this is the Gold Standard Idea, but rather that the club could think in terms of _adding_ benefits (whatever we could think up) that are appropriate for members only. However, I side more with you on this. The club survives because of the goodwill of the members, not because it "sells" anything valuable. If the club creates as much goodwill as possible, more people will spring with the pittance required to be a member. I'm projecting and I know it. I take advantage of nothing myself that requires paying a membership. Yet I do it. And most members are, I think, the same way. Which goes also in line with Craig's reasoning. I also think it would be a good idea to present the Ephemeris dues/production/cost issue to the membership at large somehow. But there are uninspected possibilities here. Currently, the Ephemeris is limited in size, scope and presentation by the need to cheaply print it. As a completely online publication, it need not be limited in size at all, or in depth of photography. It could even present videos, and be a showcase for photography by some of our world-class members. Further, contribution and editing could be greatly simplified by letting the editor allow others to directly help out or even insert stuff; a pre-release zone could be set up for Ephemeris Alpha/Beta where folks could review, edit, correct. A semiWikipedia approach. In other words, there may be more benefit to onlining the Ephemeris than meets the eye, and if the membership saw this, they might embrace it. A final and somewhat intangible consideration is the reputation of the club. Right now I don't think anyone sees it as a dynamic, growing group expressing the leadership one might expect in the technical capital of the world. A bit more of that might not hurt when it comes to creating a bit more interest -- and even more important, more participation. Dave North From sol.man at indigoskies.com Sun May 21 11:08:38 2006 From: sol.man at indigoskies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <44704597.50301@aenet.net> <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> Message-ID: <4470ACA6.8010408@indigoskies.com> Dave North wrote: > I think what Mark is proposing is exactly that. Not a way to save > money per member, but a way to lower the barrier to membership, > perhaps acquiring more members. ... the Ephemeris [cost] scales with > membership ... Expansion without fixed overhead means more funds to > play with. Especially useful if the club then occasionally finds a way > to actually spend some of those funds on things that support the > charter and contribute to the interest of members. > ... > the club could think in terms of _adding_ benefits (whatever we could > think up) that are appropriate for members only. Dave's assessment of my intentions and goal was pretty much spot on... reduce overhead, lower the barrier to entry, add benefits to make it compelling, keep up with the times. It all equates to gaining and retaining members. > Currently, the Ephemeris is limited in size, scope and > presentation by the need to cheaply print it. As a completely online > publication, it need not be limited in size at all, or in depth of > photography. It could even present videos, and be a showcase for > photography by some of our world-class members. I want to reiterate the point that the potential effect of a richer online experience is absolutely enormous. Paper simply cannot compete with the timeliness and richness that online media can deliver. Many businesses have found out the hard way that it's adaptation or extinction. > Further, contribution and editing could be greatly simplified by > letting the editor allow others to directly help out or even insert > stuff; a pre-release zone could be set up for Ephemeris Alpha/Beta > where folks could review, edit, correct. A semiWikipedia approach. > In other words, there may be more benefit to onlining the > Ephemeris than meets the eye, and if the membership saw this, they > might embrace it. Absolutely. There's so much the club could do to grow its membership, content quality, reputation and total value to members. From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 22 01:00:59 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <44704597.50301@aenet.net> <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> Message-ID: <44716FBB.7080101@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Gary Mitchell wrote: > >> If we lessen our expenses on copying and mailing the Ephemeris, only >> to match it in dues reduction, there's no net savings. > > > Right. I think what Mark is proposing is exactly that. Not a way to save > money per member, but a way to lower the barrier to membership, perhaps > acquiring more members. It's a "volume discount" gamble. > Converting from, say, a JC Penny model to a Walmart model. > I'd guess it would probably allow dropping the dues by about $5. Well, this assumes that there's a significant number of people who would join if only it weren't so expensive. Do we have any indication that the $20 annual dues is the only thing keeping some people from joining? If not, then this "solution" wouldn't do anything. I think part of the difficulty here is that we aren't clear enough on the problems we're trying to solve and whether the proposed solutions will solve those problems. Are we trying to save money? That's what it sounded like at first. Now it seems to have shifted to what's keeping potential members out. > The charm of this idea is that the Ephemeris is the one cost that > essentially scales with membership (does the insurance? I might be wrong > about that). Our income from dues also scales with membership. And yes, so does the insurance--one of the factors is how many members we have. > Expansion without fixed overhead means more funds to play > with. Especially useful if the club then occasionally finds a way to > actually spend some of those funds on things that support the charter > and contribute to the interest of members. We raised the dues recently, partly due to our increased liability insurance cost. We aren't currently spending a lot of money on things related to our membership count. So, the more members we have, the greater our net income. I expect our financial landscape to change significantly if/when we get the Ayers land. I also expect it would attract more members, possibly many more. >> Mike has talked about this sort of thing too, making it >> more "valuable" to people to actually be members. > > > It might be interesting to combine Mike's and Mark's approaches then. > For example, if most people think keeping the entire Ephemeris online is > a good thing, then leave it that way. > However, one of Mark's suggestions was to have a monthly > Members-Only star party. Now I'm not saying this is the Gold Standard > Idea, but rather that the club could think in terms of _adding_ benefits > (whatever we could think up) that are appropriate for members only. > However, I side more with you on this. The club survives because of > the goodwill of the members, not because it "sells" anything valuable. > If the club creates as much goodwill as possible, more people will > spring with the pittance required to be a member. This is more than just an idea, I see it happening. Every now and then someone joins at a meeting where we have a good speaker, or at the auction, or from their experience at a star party. > I'm projecting and I know it. I take advantage of nothing myself > that requires paying a membership. Yet I do it. And most members are, I > think, the same way. Which goes also in line with Craig's reasoning. Many members take advantage of the Sky & Telescope deal. That's only available to members and it's worth $10 per year. > I also think it would be a good idea to present the Ephemeris > dues/production/cost issue to the membership at large somehow. But there > are uninspected possibilities here. > Currently, the Ephemeris is limited in size, scope and presentation > by the need to cheaply print it. As a completely online publication, it > need not be limited in size at all, or in depth of photography. It could > even present videos, and be a showcase for photography by some of our > world-class members. Yes, but there is a cost associated with that: storage space and bandwidth. I don't know what our current limits are, but do remember this being an issue at one point. However, our web site could probably be expanded (if need be) fairly cheaply as compared to publishing the newsletter. > A final and somewhat intangible consideration is the reputation of the > club. Right now I don't think anyone sees it as a dynamic, growing group > expressing the leadership one might expect in the technical capital of > the world. A bit more of that might not hurt when it comes to creating a > bit more interest -- and even more important, more participation. That all takes participation, active members who will roll up their sleeves and do things. From my limited experience with clubs, the SJAA is doing pretty well in that regard. Of course, there's always room for improvement. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 22 02:09:54 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <20060521015459.GB29155@shallowsky.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <20060521015459.GB29155@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <44717FE2.3020705@aenet.net> Akkana Peck wrote: > Mark Taylor writes: >>* Consider making classes and/or other such functions for members, >>while leaving at least the general sessions open to all. > > > I like the idea for some functions, like the ATM class, but maybe > not for the beginning astronomy class, which is a good lure to > a prospective member interested in learning about observing. > (The class last night included someone like that; I hope > she'll join and check out a telescope from the loaner program.) Any class, including the ATM class is a good way to get people interested in joining the club. I've seen it happen in other clubs. So, I would oppose limiting any class to members only. What we need to do is improve the ATM class so that it is actually an ATM class, not just a place where people can work on their mirrors. I think that would draw in a lot more people and potential members. Our facilities at Houge are currently rather primitive. I understand the park is now willing to allow us a storage cabinet or two. This will make it a lot easier on those few who have to lug supplies back and forth. At least it's a start. Gary From north at znet.com Mon May 22 08:44:20 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <44716FBB.7080101@aenet.net> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <44704597.50301@aenet.net> <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> <44716FBB.7080101@aenet.net> Message-ID: <246c7b4b6eac858831597d5a73a8ed8b@znet.com> Gary: > Well, this assumes that there's a significant number of people who > would join if only it weren't so expensive. Yes it does, and your other points are well taken. None of us has done an economic analysis that would be conclusive, even to establish a guess. So Mark's assumption has nothing to bolster it other than the basic laws of economics, without the ability to quantify just how many more members might be gained with a dues cost reduction. > insurance--one of the factors is how many members we have. Does it scale with membership in a linear fashion? In other words, if we go from 300 to 400 members, do we pay 1/3 more? > I expect our financial landscape to change significantly if/when we > get the Ayers land. I also expect it would attract more members, > possibly many more. Here we see things differently. The first sentence you understand far better than I do: I don't really understand the financial implications of the land acquisition, other than that it will cost something. But I do not expect any significant membership growth at all as a result. Rather, I expect a longer-term slip. > Many members take advantage of the Sky & Telescope deal. Good point. Also _Astronomy_, to a lesser extent. Dave From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 22 09:07:12 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: membership benefits In-Reply-To: <246c7b4b6eac858831597d5a73a8ed8b@znet.com> Message-ID: <005a01c67db9$c9802c80$0300a8c0@robathome> > Here we see things differently. The first sentence you > understand far better than I do: I don't really understand > the financial implications of the land acquisition, other > than that it will cost something. > But I do not expect any significant membership growth > at all as a result. Rather, I expect a longer-term slip. A large portion of the people replying to the solicitation are not current club members. Looking at the database I would expect a large turnover in membership in the next 10 years regardless of what we do with the land. Our member base is aging. Many are not currently active, but supporting the club. I thought I addressed your concerns on the land deal. You still seem to have more. The observatory project has been something the club has been working on for a long time. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue May 23 02:20:06 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: membership benefits (was Re: [SJAABoard] Perhaps Electronic Distribution should be our default) In-Reply-To: <246c7b4b6eac858831597d5a73a8ed8b@znet.com> References: <20060520023033.44882.qmail@web53805.mail.yahoo.com> <446F656A.7010203@indigoskies.com> <44704597.50301@aenet.net> <5e8a513ca07b51d80ceafbeed08ff57c@znet.com> <44716FBB.7080101@aenet.net> <246c7b4b6eac858831597d5a73a8ed8b@znet.com> Message-ID: <4472D3C6.6050009@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Gary: >> insurance--one of the factors is how many members we have. > > > Does it scale with membership in a linear fashion? In other words, if we > go from 300 to 400 members, do we pay 1/3 more? I don't know. I do know one of the pieces of information they wanted was how many active members we have. (What constitutes an "active member" we never were able to find out.) I also know that other clubs with way fewer members pay a significantly cheaper rate. But there are other factors involved with those. So, I can't even make a guess, other than to say our size apparently makes a difference. >> I expect our financial landscape to change significantly if/when we >> get the Ayers land. I also expect it would attract more members, >> possibly many more. > > > Here we see things differently. The first sentence you understand far > better than I do: I don't really understand the financial implications > of the land acquisition, other than that it will cost something. > But I do not expect any significant membership growth at all as a > result. Rather, I expect a longer-term slip. Well, my reasoning is this: I've seen people join because of things we do (classes, auction, etc.). Sometimes they say it's to help support the club and what we're doing. Having a good dark site will attract amateur astronomers from far and wide--many of whom are not members, perhaps even most. The fact that they have access and SJAA is carrying the load, I expect might encourage them to join to support the effort--especially if there's an invitation. Maybe something along the lines of: "Isn't this a great site? Why not help support the club who does this, become a member." Many won't, but I'll bet a significant number would. I don't understand how it would slip. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 23 07:24:54 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Williow Springs and membership In-Reply-To: <4472D3C6.6050009@aenet.net> Message-ID: <002e01c67e74$a9c7fd80$0300a8c0@robathome> Dave your message seems to imply that there is an underlying deep opposition to proceeding with Willow Springs. If so, I have not seen that myself. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite. I was quite shocked by the reaction to my presentation at the last SJAA meeting. It was late. The people in the hall did not strike me as being in the what I thought was my most likely audience. But instead of a ho hum or even hostile reaction what the presentation elicited was enthusiasm. At this point most members know about the potential deal from the mail lists. It will also be on the front page of their next ephemeris. Many people have approached me offering both time and money. We can agree that there are risks involved with the property. It is a big commitment and it will add additional responsibilities to the board. No one is asking the club to stop doing what it currently does. No one is expecting the membership to take on a vast financial burden. As I said in my presentation Willow Springs has to be self supporting or we should not do it. Please feel free to continue discussing your specific concerns. And by all means please have anyone else you has deep concerns contact us. At this point no commitments have been made in either direction. You might want to come down to the site yourself on Saturday to either observe or just see what all of the discussion is about. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Tue May 23 10:26:05 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Williow Springs and membership In-Reply-To: <002e01c67e74$a9c7fd80$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <002e01c67e74$a9c7fd80$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: Gary: > So, I can't even make a guess, other than to say our size apparently > makes a difference. Then we really don't know what the impact of membership change is on the insurance bill. Can't figure it into any plans then. I assume there will be insurance encumbrances vis a vis the land. Is that a known number? > I don't understand how it would slip. If you're right and some people become excited about the land, join up, contribute, and add the resources necessary to maintain it, then I think you're right and it will show a net growth. If, on the other hand, that does not happen it will become a money and energy sink, and other aspects would probably suffer. I suspect the latter. We're all just guessing here, and hopefully my guess will turn out wrong (I see this as a done deal). The actual number of people involved is far too small to (in my opinion) make a reasonable guess as to which way it will turn out. Rob Hawley wrote: > Dave your message seems to imply that there is an underlying deep > opposition to proceeding with Willow Springs. I really have no idea where you got that idea! The impact of the acquisition is just my own personal guess, and probably not consistent with the most common outlook. I don't recall saying or implying anything to the contrary. Dave North From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 23 17:23:27 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Williow Springs and membership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005d01c67ec8$474a52d0$0300a8c0@robathome> > > Dave your message seems to imply that there is an underlying deep > > opposition to proceeding with Willow Springs. > > I really have no idea where you got that idea! > The impact of the acquisition is just my own personal > guess, and probably not consistent with the most common > outlook. I don't recall saying or implying anything to the contrary. > Good If you did have such information then I wanted to make sure I understood it. Rob Hawley From pkohlmil at best.com Tue May 23 23:50:09 2006 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Ideas Message-ID: <003601c67efe$4c8d27f0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Some ideas for the Ephemeris: 1. Make electronic distribution the default, fees stay the same. PDF version in color with optional e-mail notification. 2. Printed version in color, mailed first class, extra membership fee to cover the difference. 3. Both PDF and printed versions slightly larger - about 12 extra pages (10%) per year. 4. Shrink telescope loaner section to only show changes; insert "ads" in this section. 5. More pictures. 6. If number printed drops (because of #2), consider printing ourselves. Combined with first class mailing, reduce "latency period" between editorial cut-off and delivery. Could choose a different page size. 7. Full color masthead design - designed by an expert. 8. Consider replacing HTML version with just the article list and links to the PDF version. 9. RSS feeds of the Ephemeris or maybe just the calendar. Of course, more articles would be great. The printed version in color would raise our profile among astronomy clubs. Thanks for listening. If you have comments that aren't for the entire board, please reply to ephemeris@sjaa.net. Paul K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20060523/8a5f6b08/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 24 01:51:49 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Williow Springs and membership In-Reply-To: References: <002e01c67e74$a9c7fd80$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <44741EA5.6080701@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Gary: > >> So, I can't even make a guess, other than to say our size apparently >> makes a difference. > > > Then we really don't know what the impact of membership change is on the > insurance bill. Can't figure it into any plans then. > I assume there will be insurance encumbrances vis a vis the land. Is > that a known number? From what I understand, a membership increase from say 300 to 400 wouldn't have a big impact on our annual premium; however, going from 30 to 300 would. Owning the land will increase it some, but not by a huge amount. I believe Rob has looked into that. If I recall correctly, it's something like $400. Rob: Is that right? >> I don't understand how it would slip. > > > If you're right and some people become excited about the land, join up, > contribute, and add the resources necessary to maintain it, then I think > you're right and it will show a net growth. > If, on the other hand, that does not happen it will become a money > and energy sink, and other aspects would probably suffer. > I suspect the latter. We're all just guessing here, and hopefully my > guess will turn out wrong (I see this as a done deal). The actual number > of people involved is far too small to (in my opinion) make a reasonable > guess as to which way it will turn out. I still don't see how it would necessarily become a huge money and labor sink... unless we do it on purpose. If worse comes to worse, we could work on getting that welfare exemption and just leave it at that. Our property taxes would then basically be zip. The only thing would be the added insurance. I really think we should be able to cover that almost no matter what. It's not like a building. The land has been there for quite some time without people having to maintaining it. We don't have to do anything to it if it doesn't get used. And it's an asset--a big one. The point is it doesn't have to be a huge money and labor sink. If worse comes to worse, we could just hold it as an assets. The insurance should be minimal in that case. On the other hand, if we use it for star parties--which is the whole point--the leading idea is to have some kind of subscription or membership, like dues. It will be open for any amateur astronomer to "join," just like with the SJAA. We can put as much money or labor into the land as we have available. If people want more, they can chip in. It can be a pay-as-we-go kind of thing, same with labor. If Group 70 has their observatory there, they could bring added resources. For example: a flush toilet, electricity, a place to sleep, and not the least of which--the ability see a powerful lot of old photons all at once. :) Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 24 10:19:29 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: Williow Springs and membership In-Reply-To: <44741EA5.6080701@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060524171929.9342.qmail@web53803.mail.yahoo.com> I just want to remind everybody here that the Ayers Land presentation Rob gave to the SJAA General Meeting is linked off of the sjaa's home page. It contains a lot of useful information such as the expected increase in insurance cost among other things. For your convenience, here is the URL http://www.robhawley.net/May06_presentation.pdf Dave, you are welcome to call me if you have any specific concerns you would like to discuss interactively. 408-705-3319 -Craig --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > Dave North wrote: > > > Gary: > > > >> So, I can't even make a guess, other than to say our > size apparently > >> makes a difference. > > > > > > Then we really don't know what the impact of > membership change is on the > > insurance bill. Can't figure it into any plans then. > > I assume there will be insurance encumbrances vis > a vis the land. Is > > that a known number? > > From what I understand, a membership increase from say > 300 > to 400 wouldn't have a big impact on our annual > premium; > however, going from 30 to 300 would. > > Owning the land will increase it some, but not by a > huge > amount. I believe Rob has looked into that. If I > recall > correctly, it's something like $400. Rob: Is that > right? > > > >> I don't understand how it would slip. > > > > > > If you're right and some people become excited about > the land, join up, > > contribute, and add the resources necessary to > maintain it, then I think > > you're right and it will show a net growth. > > If, on the other hand, that does not happen it > will become a money > > and energy sink, and other aspects would probably > suffer. > > I suspect the latter. We're all just guessing > here, and hopefully my > > guess will turn out wrong (I see this as a done > deal). The actual number > > of people involved is far too small to (in my > opinion) make a reasonable > > guess as to which way it will turn out. > > I still don't see how it would necessarily become a > huge > money and labor sink... unless we do it on purpose. > > If worse comes to worse, we could work on getting that > welfare exemption and just leave it at that. Our > property > taxes would then basically be zip. The only thing > would be > the added insurance. I really think we should be able > to > cover that almost no matter what. It's not like a > building. > The land has been there for quite some time without > people > having to maintaining it. We don't have to do anything > to > it if it doesn't get used. And it's an asset--a big > one. > The point is it doesn't have to be a huge money and > labor > sink. If worse comes to worse, we could just hold it as > an > assets. The insurance should be minimal in that case. > > On the other hand, if we use it for star parties--which > is > the whole point--the leading idea is to have some kind > of > subscription or membership, like dues. It will be open > for > any amateur astronomer to "join," just like with the > SJAA. > We can put as much money or labor into the land as we > have > available. If people want more, they can chip in. It > can > be a pay-as-we-go kind of thing, same with labor. > > If Group 70 has their observatory there, they could > bring > added resources. For example: a flush toilet, > electricity, > a place to sleep, and not the least of which--the > ability > see a powerful lot of old photons all at once. :) > > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 24 10:53:50 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) Message-ID: <20060524175350.59901.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. let me know if any corrections are necessary -Craig ============================================== May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ============================================== For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one copy of the last month???s minutes for the upcoming board meeting and send out a final edited version the next day. ------------------------------------- Members Present ------------------------------------- Mike Koop Bill O'Shaughnessy Lee Hoglan Rich Neuschaefer Dave Smith Craig Scull Gary Mitchell Gordon Reade Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Treasurer???s Report ------------------------------------- The current amounts are: Checking account 7985.03 Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) Petty cash 50.50 CD 1 5076.34 CD 2 5070.00 CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) PayPal 57.36 Total: 21684.00 ------------------------------------- Loaner Scope Report ------------------------------------- -fairly stagnant -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who lives in Marin -New member joined and borrowed scope ------------------------------------- Observational Astronomy Class ------------------------------------- -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well attended -Need to find someone for June ------------------------------------- ATM Class ------------------------------------- -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so many other events going on such as conflicts with Coyote star parties. ------------------------------------- Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use ------------------------------------- -Evidently there isn???t money for floor care at Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut the facility down to lower their costs. ------------------------------------- School star parties ------------------------------------- -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter to the principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent incident where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon???s car. Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one opposed. Not a good year for school star parties due to rain, clouds and more recent fog. ------------------------------------- Observatory Committee ------------------------------------- Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long port a potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The motion was seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. Open issues --Director???s insurance --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob --bathroom solution --tax qualification --ADA pad for handicapped observer --Constantly reinforce message to community that ???we are not in this to make money??? ------------------------------------- Messier Marathon ------------------------------------- -Friday night cancelled -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still saw 20 objects ------------------------------------- Auction ------------------------------------- -Rob has created an updated program -There was some discussion about additional requirements, such as the flexibility to charge bidders ------------------------------------- CalStar Catering ------------------------------------- -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night -We???ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the star party every year -A number of people last year said the cost was too high -We decided to have a ???no refund??? ???no cancellation??? policy so that by the Tuesday before the star party people???s meal orders are locked in, regardless of whether they show up -Constantly reinforce message that ???we are not in this to make money??? -Rob is still working on getting competitive bids to see if any better options exist ------------------------------------- Ephemeris Distribution ------------------------------------- -Need to replace prior volunteers -Some discussion around whether we should let people receive electronic version by default, and then get paper version by request. No decisions were made. ------------------------------------- Star Parties ------------------------------------- -Coyote Park Ranger is promoting the star party heavily in the local newspaper. Next party will be over by the boat ramp -The May 27th Memorial weekend star party at Bob Ayers lot has been promoted through email, and the response looks very encouraging so far. -Many Houge Park Star Parties have been fogged/clouded out From areopagus125 at yahoo.com Wed May 24 11:32:58 2006 From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) In-Reply-To: <20060524175350.59901.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060524183258.79067.qmail@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Craig, I noticed that Houge is misspelled. It seems that odd characters are substituted for the apostrophes. -- David --- Craig Scull wrote: > Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. > let me > know if any corrections are necessary > -Craig > > > ============================================== > May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig > Scull > ============================================== > For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one > copy of > the last month???s minutes for the upcoming board > meeting > and send out a final edited version the next day. > > ------------------------------------- > Members Present > ------------------------------------- > Mike Koop > Bill O'Shaughnessy > Lee Hoglan > Rich Neuschaefer > Dave Smith > Craig Scull > Gary Mitchell > Gordon Reade > Rob Hawley > > ------------------------------------- > Treasurer???s Report > ------------------------------------- > The current amounts are: > Checking account 7985.03 > Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) > Petty cash 50.50 > CD 1 5076.34 > CD 2 5070.00 > CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) > PayPal 57.36 > > Total: 21684.00 > > ------------------------------------- > Loaner Scope Report > ------------------------------------- > -fairly stagnant > -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who > lives in > Marin > -New member joined and borrowed scope > > ------------------------------------- > Observational Astronomy Class > ------------------------------------- > -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well > attended > -Need to find someone for June > > ------------------------------------- > ATM Class > ------------------------------------- > -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so > many > other events going on such as conflicts with Coyote > star > parties. > > ------------------------------------- > Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use > ------------------------------------- > -Evidently there isn???t money for floor care at > Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut the > facility down to lower their costs. > > ------------------------------------- > School star parties > ------------------------------------- > -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter to > the > principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent > incident > where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon???s > car. > Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one > opposed. > > Not a good year for school star parties due to rain, > clouds and more recent fog. > > ------------------------------------- > Observatory Committee > ------------------------------------- > Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long > port a > potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The > motion was > seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. > > Open issues > --Director???s insurance > --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob > --bathroom solution > --tax qualification > --ADA pad for handicapped observer > --Constantly reinforce message to community that > ???we > are not in this to make money??? > > ------------------------------------- > Messier Marathon > ------------------------------------- > -Friday night cancelled > -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still saw > 20 > objects > > ------------------------------------- > Auction > ------------------------------------- > -Rob has created an updated program > -There was some discussion about additional > requirements, > such as the flexibility to charge bidders > > ------------------------------------- > CalStar Catering > ------------------------------------- > -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night > -We???ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the > star > party every year > -A number of people last year said the cost was too > high > -We decided to have a ???no refund??? ???no > cancellation??? policy so that by the Tuesday before > the > star party people???s meal orders are locked in, > regardless of whether they show up > -Constantly reinforce message that ???we are not in > this > to make money??? > -Rob is still working on getting competitive bids to > see > if any better options exist > > ------------------------------------- > Ephemeris Distribution > ------------------------------------- > -Need to replace prior volunteers > -Some discussion around whether we should let people > receive electronic version by default, and then get > paper > version by request. No decisions were made. > > ------------------------------------- > Star Parties > ------------------------------------- > -Coyote Park Ranger is promoting the star party > heavily > in the local newspaper. Next party will be over by > the > boat ramp > -The May 27th Memorial weekend star party at Bob > Ayers > lot has been promoted through email, and the > response > looks very encouraging so far. > -Many Houge Park Star Parties have been > fogged/clouded > out > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed May 24 16:04:35 2006 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) In-Reply-To: <20060524183258.79067.qmail@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060524183258.79067.qmail@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060524153939.E72998@koopm.best.vwh.net> Craig, You can see the funny characters in the archive listing. http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2006-May/002999.html There must be some plain text setting you can change on your mailer. I had a similar problem on my old win 95 box with Outlook express which I never could fix for some reason. It had the same problem with special characters such as apostrophes. Got so bad that I changed my style of writing to avoid these characters. I left my notes at home, so I'll send a few corrections later. Mike On Wed, 24 May 2006, David Smith wrote: > Craig, > > I noticed that Houge is misspelled. It seems that odd > characters are substituted for the apostrophes. > > -- David > > --- Craig Scull wrote: > >> Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. >> let me >> know if any corrections are necessary >> -Craig >> >> >> ============================================== >> May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig >> Scull >> ============================================== >> For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one >> copy of >> the last month???s minutes for the upcoming board >> meeting >> and send out a final edited version the next day. >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Members Present >> ------------------------------------- >> Mike Koop >> Bill O'Shaughnessy >> Lee Hoglan >> Rich Neuschaefer >> Dave Smith >> Craig Scull >> Gary Mitchell >> Gordon Reade >> Rob Hawley >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Treasurer???s Report >> ------------------------------------- >> The current amounts are: >> Checking account 7985.03 >> Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) >> Petty cash 50.50 >> CD 1 5076.34 >> CD 2 5070.00 >> CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) >> PayPal 57.36 >> >> Total: 21684.00 >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Loaner Scope Report >> ------------------------------------- >> -fairly stagnant >> -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who >> lives in >> Marin >> -New member joined and borrowed scope >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Observational Astronomy Class >> ------------------------------------- >> -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well >> attended >> -Need to find someone for June >> >> ------------------------------------- >> ATM Class >> ------------------------------------- >> -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so >> many >> other events going on such as conflicts with Coyote >> star >> parties. >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use >> ------------------------------------- >> -Evidently there isn???t money for floor care at >> Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut the >> facility down to lower their costs. >> >> ------------------------------------- >> School star parties >> ------------------------------------- >> -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter to >> the >> principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent >> incident >> where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon???s >> car. >> Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one >> opposed. >> >> Not a good year for school star parties due to rain, >> clouds and more recent fog. >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Observatory Committee >> ------------------------------------- >> Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long >> port a >> potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The >> motion was >> seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. >> >> Open issues >> --Director???s insurance >> --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob >> --bathroom solution >> --tax qualification >> --ADA pad for handicapped observer >> --Constantly reinforce message to community that >> ???we >> are not in this to make money??? >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Messier Marathon >> ------------------------------------- >> -Friday night cancelled >> -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still saw >> 20 >> objects >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Auction >> ------------------------------------- >> -Rob has created an updated program >> -There was some discussion about additional >> requirements, >> such as the flexibility to charge bidders >> >> ------------------------------------- >> CalStar Catering >> ------------------------------------- >> -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night >> -We???ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the >> star >> party every year >> -A number of people last year said the cost was too >> high >> -We decided to have a ???no refund??? ???no >> cancellation??? policy so that by the Tuesday before >> the >> star party people???s meal orders are locked in, >> regardless of whether they show up >> -Constantly reinforce message that ???we are not in >> this >> to make money??? >> -Rob is still working on getting competitive bids to >> see >> if any better options exist >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Ephemeris Distribution >> ------------------------------------- >> -Need to replace prior volunteers >> -Some discussion around whether we should let people >> receive electronic version by default, and then get >> paper >> version by request. No decisions were made. >> >> ------------------------------------- >> Star Parties >> ------------------------------------- >> -Coyote Park Ranger is promoting the star party >> heavily >> in the local newspaper. Next party will be over by >> the >> boat ramp >> -The May 27th Memorial weekend star party at Bob >> Ayers >> lot has been promoted through email, and the >> response >> looks very encouraging so far. >> -Many Houge Park Star Parties have been >> fogged/clouded >> out >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 24 21:21:51 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) In-Reply-To: <20060524153939.E72998@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <20060525042151.81675.qmail@web53808.mail.yahoo.com> These strange characters weren't there before. They seriously interfere with the readability of the text and we would have noticed them previously. Anyways, here are some experiments, please ignore... BASELINE (copy/paste from Word 2003) Treasurer?s Report NOTEPAD Treasurer's Report HANDTYPED Treasurer's Report EXCEL 2003 Treasurer?s Report --- Michael Koop wrote: > Craig, > You can see the funny characters in the archive > listing. > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2006-May/002999.html > > There must be some plain text setting you can change on > your mailer. > I had a similar problem on my old win 95 box with > Outlook express which I > never could fix for some reason. It had the same > problem with special > characters such as apostrophes. Got so bad that I > changed my style of > writing to avoid these characters. > > I left my notes at home, so I'll send a few corrections > later. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 24 May 2006, David Smith wrote: > > > Craig, > > > > I noticed that Houge is misspelled. It seems that > odd > > characters are substituted for the apostrophes. > > > > -- David > > > > --- Craig Scull wrote: > > > >> Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. > >> let me > >> know if any corrections are necessary > >> -Craig > >> > >> > >> ============================================== > >> May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig > >> Scull > >> ============================================== > >> For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one > >> copy of > >> the last month???s minutes for the upcoming board > >> meeting > >> and send out a final edited version the next day. > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Members Present > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Mike Koop > >> Bill O'Shaughnessy > >> Lee Hoglan > >> Rich Neuschaefer > >> Dave Smith > >> Craig Scull > >> Gary Mitchell > >> Gordon Reade > >> Rob Hawley > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Treasurer???s Report > >> ------------------------------------- > >> The current amounts are: > >> Checking account 7985.03 > >> Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) > >> Petty cash 50.50 > >> CD 1 5076.34 > >> CD 2 5070.00 > >> CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) > >> PayPal 57.36 > >> > >> Total: 21684.00 > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Loaner Scope Report > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -fairly stagnant > >> -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who > >> lives in > >> Marin > >> -New member joined and borrowed scope > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Observational Astronomy Class > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well > >> attended > >> -Need to find someone for June > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> ATM Class > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so > >> many > >> other events going on such as conflicts with Coyote > >> star > >> parties. > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Evidently there isn???t money for floor care at > >> Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut the > >> facility down to lower their costs. > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> School star parties > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter to > >> the > >> principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent > >> incident > >> where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon???s > >> car. > >> Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one > >> opposed. > >> > >> Not a good year for school star parties due to rain, > >> clouds and more recent fog. > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Observatory Committee > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long > >> port a > >> potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The > >> motion was > >> seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. > >> > >> Open issues > >> --Director???s insurance > >> --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob > >> --bathroom solution > >> --tax qualification > >> --ADA pad for handicapped observer > >> --Constantly reinforce message to community that > >> ???we > >> are not in this to make money??? > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Messier Marathon > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Friday night cancelled > >> -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still saw > >> 20 > >> objects > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Auction > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Rob has created an updated program > >> -There was some discussion about additional > >> requirements, > >> such as the flexibility to charge bidders > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> CalStar Catering > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night > >> -We???ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the > >> star > >> party every year > >> -A number of people last year said the cost was too > >> high > >> -We decided to have a ???no refund??? ???no > >> cancellation??? policy so that by the Tuesday before > >> the > >> star party people???s meal orders are locked in, > >> regardless of whether they show up > >> -Constantly reinforce message that ???we are not in > >> this > >> to make money??? > >> -Rob is still working on getting competitive bids to > >> see > >> if any better options exist > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Ephemeris Distribution > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Need to replace prior volunteers > >> -Some discussion around whether we should let people > >> receive electronic version by default, and then get > >> paper > >> version by request. No decisions were made. > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> Star Parties > >> ------------------------------------- > >> -Coyote Park Ranger is promoting the star party > >> heavily > >> in the local newspaper. Next party will be over by > >> the > >> boat ramp > >> -The May 27th Memorial weekend star party at Bob > >> Ayers > >> lot has been promoted through email, and the > >> response > >> looks very encouraging so far. > === message truncated ===> _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 24 21:22:56 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) In-Reply-To: <20060525042151.81675.qmail@web53808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060525042256.51631.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> test reply, please ignore --- Craig Scull wrote: > These strange characters weren't there before. They > seriously interfere with the readability of the text > and > we would have noticed them previously. > > Anyways, here are some experiments, please ignore... > > BASELINE (copy/paste from Word 2003) > Treasurer?s Report > > NOTEPAD > Treasurer's Report > > HANDTYPED > Treasurer's Report > > EXCEL 2003 > Treasurer?s Report > > > > > > --- Michael Koop wrote: > > > Craig, > > You can see the funny characters in the archive > > listing. > > > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2006-May/002999.html > > > > There must be some plain text setting you can change > on > > your mailer. > > I had a similar problem on my old win 95 box with > > Outlook express which I > > never could fix for some reason. It had the same > > problem with special > > characters such as apostrophes. Got so bad that I > > changed my style of > > writing to avoid these characters. > > > > I left my notes at home, so I'll send a few > corrections > > later. > > > > Mike > > > > > > On Wed, 24 May 2006, David Smith wrote: > > > > > Craig, > > > > > > I noticed that Houge is misspelled. It seems that > > odd > > > characters are substituted for the apostrophes. > > > > > > -- David > > > > > > --- Craig Scull wrote: > > > > > >> Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. > > >> let me > > >> know if any corrections are necessary > > >> -Craig > > >> > > >> > > >> ============================================== > > >> May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig > > >> Scull > > >> ============================================== > > >> For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one > > >> copy of > > >> the last month???s minutes for the upcoming board > > >> meeting > > >> and send out a final edited version the next day. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Members Present > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Mike Koop > > >> Bill O'Shaughnessy > > >> Lee Hoglan > > >> Rich Neuschaefer > > >> Dave Smith > > >> Craig Scull > > >> Gary Mitchell > > >> Gordon Reade > > >> Rob Hawley > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Treasurer???s Report > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> The current amounts are: > > >> Checking account 7985.03 > > >> Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) > > >> Petty cash 50.50 > > >> CD 1 5076.34 > > >> CD 2 5070.00 > > >> CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) > > >> PayPal 57.36 > > >> > > >> Total: 21684.00 > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Loaner Scope Report > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -fairly stagnant > > >> -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who > > >> lives in > > >> Marin > > >> -New member joined and borrowed scope > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Observational Astronomy Class > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well > > >> attended > > >> -Need to find someone for June > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> ATM Class > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so > > >> many > > >> other events going on such as conflicts with > Coyote > > >> star > > >> parties. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Evidently there isn???t money for floor care at > > >> Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut > the > > >> facility down to lower their costs. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> School star parties > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter > to > > >> the > > >> principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent > > >> incident > > >> where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon???s > > >> car. > > >> Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one > > >> opposed. > > >> > > >> Not a good year for school star parties due to > rain, > > >> clouds and more recent fog. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Observatory Committee > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long > > >> port a > > >> potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The > > >> motion was > > >> seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. > > >> > > >> Open issues > > >> --Director???s insurance > > >> --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob > > >> --bathroom solution > > >> --tax qualification > > >> --ADA pad for handicapped observer > > >> --Constantly reinforce message to community that > > >> ???we > > >> are not in this to make money??? > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Messier Marathon > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Friday night cancelled > > >> -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still > saw > > >> 20 > > >> objects > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> Auction > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Rob has created an updated program > > >> -There was some discussion about additional > > >> requirements, > > >> such as the flexibility to charge bidders > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> CalStar Catering > > >> ------------------------------------- > > >> -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night > > >> -We???ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the > > >> star > > >> party every year > > >> -A number of people last year said the cost was > too > > >> high > === message truncated === From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 24 23:20:11 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes (Draft) In-Reply-To: <20060524153939.E72998@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20060524183258.79067.qmail@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060524153939.E72998@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <44754C9B.5000202@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > Craig, > You can see the funny characters in the archive listing. > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2006-May/002999.html >=20 > There must be some plain text setting you can change on your mailer. > I had a similar problem on my old win 95 box with Outlook express which= =20 > I never could fix for some reason. It had the same problem with special= =20 > characters such as apostrophes. Got so bad that I changed my style of=20 > writing to avoid these characters. >=20 > I left my notes at home, so I'll send a few corrections later. >=20 > Mike I'm seeing the same thing here. I would suggest whatever word editor was used didn't do a very good job converting to plain text (this reeks of Microshaft). Something simple like the old Notepad editor would be best. We don't need anything real fancy here Gary >=20 > On Wed, 24 May 2006, David Smith wrote: >=20 >> Craig, >> >> I noticed that Houge is misspelled. It seems that odd >> characters are substituted for the apostrophes. >> >> -- David >> >> --- Craig Scull wrote: >> >>> Here's the draft version of the meeting minutes.. >>> let me >>> know if any corrections are necessary >>> -Craig >>> >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> May 13, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig >>> Scull >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> For all meeting minutes Craig will print out one >>> copy of >>> the last month=E2=80=99s minutes for the upcoming board >>> meeting >>> and send out a final edited version the next day. >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Members Present >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Mike Koop >>> Bill O'Shaughnessy >>> Lee Hoglan >>> Rich Neuschaefer >>> Dave Smith >>> Craig Scull >>> Gary Mitchell >>> Gordon Reade >>> Rob Hawley >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Treasurer=E2=80=99s Report >>> ------------------------------------- >>> The current amounts are: >>> Checking account 7985.03 >>> Savings 402.77 (Gregory fund) >>> Petty cash 50.50 >>> CD 1 5076.34 >>> CD 2 5070.00 >>> CD 3 3042.00 (observatory fund) >>> PayPal 57.36 >>> >>> Total: 21684.00 >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Loaner Scope Report >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -fairly stagnant >>> -having trouble getting scope from Ken Frank who >>> lives in >>> Marin >>> -New member joined and borrowed scope >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Observational Astronomy Class >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Mark Wagner did the last one and it was well >>> attended >>> -Need to find someone for June >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> ATM Class >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -low attendance, may cancel for summer due to so >>> many >>> other events going on such as conflicts with Coyote >>> star >>> parties. >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Hoage Park, threats to bldg and use >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Evidently there isn=E2=80=99t money for floor care at >>> Houge. Because of this, the county wants to shut the >>> facility down to lower their costs. >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> School star parties >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Rob passed a motion to let Gordon send a letter to >>> the >>> principle on SJAA letterhead about the recent >>> incident >>> where a bottle of water was thrown into Gordon=E2=80=99s >>> car. >>> Bill seconded the motion. No abstentions, no one >>> opposed. >>> >>> Not a good year for school star parties due to rain, >>> clouds and more recent fog. >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Observatory Committee >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Mike made a motion that the $125 for the week long >>> port a >>> potty rental be approved for Rob to spend. The >>> motion was >>> seconded by Bill. No abstentions, no one opposed. >>> >>> Open issues >>> --Director=E2=80=99s insurance >>> --trying to schedule more star parties w/Bob >>> --bathroom solution >>> --tax qualification >>> --ADA pad for handicapped observer >>> --Constantly reinforce message to community that >>> =E2=80=9Cwe >>> are not in this to make money=E2=80=9D >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Messier Marathon >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Friday night cancelled >>> -Saturday night, mostly clouded, but Mike still saw >>> 20 >>> objects >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Auction >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Rob has created an updated program >>> -There was some discussion about additional >>> requirements, >>> such as the flexibility to charge bidders >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> CalStar Catering >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Idea discussed to have pizza delivered one night >>> -We=E2=80=99ve had 60 meal orders for each night of the >>> star >>> party every year >>> -A number of people last year said the cost was too >>> high >>> -We decided to have a =E2=80=9Cno refund=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cno >>> cancellation=E2=80=9D policy so that by the Tuesday before >>> the >>> star party people=E2=80=99s meal orders are locked in, >>> regardless of whether they show up >>> -Constantly reinforce message that =E2=80=9Cwe are not in >>> this >>> to make money=E2=80=9D >>> -Rob is still working on getting competitive bids to >>> see >>> if any better options exist >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Ephemeris Distribution >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Need to replace prior volunteers >>> -Some discussion around whether we should let people >>> receive electronic version by default, and then get >>> paper >>> version by request. No decisions were made. >>> >>> ------------------------------------- >>> Star Parties >>> ------------------------------------- >>> -Coyote Park Ranger is promoting the star party >>> heavily >>> in the local newspaper. Next party will be over by >>> the >>> boat ramp >>> -The May 27th Memorial weekend star party at Bob >>> Ayers >>> lot has been promoted through email, and the >>> response >>> looks very encouraging so far. >>> -Many Houge Park Star Parties have been >>> fogged/clouded >>> out >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SJAABoard mailing list >>> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >>> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >=20 >=20 >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard tection around of I >=20 >=20 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - >=20 > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 24 23:58:17 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Ideas In-Reply-To: <003601c67efe$4c8d27f0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> References: <003601c67efe$4c8d27f0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> Message-ID: <44755589.5050401@aenet.net> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Some ideas for the Ephemeris: > 1. Make electronic distribution the default, fees stay the same. I would oppose that, especially if the dues stay the same. Maybe at some point in the future the electronic version could be the default, but I don't see that happening any time soon. > PDF version in color with optional e-mail notification. > 2. Printed version in color, mailed first class, extra membership fee to cover the difference. The dues were already increased not long ago. The reason was increased club costs--some of which was the newsletter. This would be tantamount to raising the dues again for pretty much the same reason. First class should only be considered if our mailing falls below a certain point. I don't know what the break-even point is, but it should be somewhere around 120 to 150. Now, if the general membership wants to increase the dues for a color newsletter, that's fine. But it shouldn't come from the board. > 3. Both PDF and printed versions slightly larger - about 12 extra pages (10%) per year. OK. > 4. Shrink telescope loaner section to only show changes; Or better yet, the ones currently available for loan. > insert "ads" in this section. The board would have to come up with a policy on that. > 5. More pictures. Cool! > 6. If number printed drops (because of #2), consider printing ourselves. This would be very significant, requiring careful study. Would the club buy a printer and ink or pay whomever does it? This is especially important if we have a color newsletter. > 7. Full color masthead design - designed by an expert. The masthead doesn't need to be fancy. That's the sort of thing that generally gets the fine-print treatment. > 8. Consider replacing HTML version with just the article list and links to the PDF version. > 9. RSS feeds of the Ephemeris or maybe just the calendar. > > Of course, more articles would be great. > The printed version in color would raise our profile among astronomy clubs. It'd raise our cost profile too. It would be very nice to have color, especially for most photos. However, it would increase our printing costs by an order of magnitude. We currently pay about $181 for 300 copies. That's roughly 60 cents per newsletter. It would cost at least that much *per page* in color. As nice as it would be to have a color newsletter, it would completely change our financial landscape as far as dues and the newsletter. Perhaps having the electronic version in color would encourage people to get it that way. That can be done right away with no significant increase in cost. The paper version is another story. I can already hear this coming next... Let's not do something that would complicate our dues structure and the newsletter distribution. Please let's not have some people get a color version for more dues, a B&W version for regular dues, and the electronic version for less dues. Gary From north at znet.com Thu May 25 08:32:17 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Ideas In-Reply-To: <44755589.5050401@aenet.net> References: <003601c67efe$4c8d27f0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> <44755589.5050401@aenet.net> Message-ID: Gary Mitchell wrote: >> 4. Shrink telescope loaner section to only show changes; > Or better yet, the ones currently available for loan. There is a downside, which is that the list of possible future loans is no longer available for easy checking by newer members. Dave From akkana at shallowsky.com Thu May 25 09:25:53 2006 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Ideas In-Reply-To: References: <003601c67efe$4c8d27f0$0300a8c0@eclipsys.lan> <44755589.5050401@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060525162553.GA24245@shallowsky.com> Dave North writes: > Gary Mitchell wrote: > >>4. Shrink telescope loaner section to only show changes; > >Or better yet, the ones currently available for loan. > > There is a downside, which is that the list of possible future loans is > no longer available for easy checking by newer members. If the list is shrunk to only the ones immediately available, it's definitely worth stating at the top of the list "The SJAA loaner program includes a total of [NN] telescopes. See [URL] for the complete list or to join a waiting list for one of the other scopes." The huge size and variety of the loaner program is a good advertisement for joining the SJAA, and some of the coolest ones tend to be on loan, understandably (*). I can see not wanting to devote so much newsletter space to printing the same list every month, but at least make it clear how big the whole collection is and where to see the list. (*) Assuming that there is a current web page. The due dates listed on the loaner page linked off sjaa.net are all in 2001 or 2002, which might be somewhat confusing to a new member. Are those all still on loan? -- ...Akkana Check out my book, "Beginning GIMP: From Novice to Professional". Now shipping! For more information: http://gimpbook.com From jvn at svpal.org Sat May 27 00:04:51 2006 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Absence May 27 - June 22 Message-ID: <4477FA13.6C35@svpal.org> Hi, All, I'm nearly on my way to Wisconsin for my annual visit. I'll be running my regular e-mail most days, but will not be as resonsive as usual. Clear Skies (airline style)! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 29 23:59:01 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land star party evaluation Message-ID: <447BED35.1040304@aenet.net> I'd like to throw this in with the data we're accumulating regarding the Ayers site: With my 6" f/5 Newtonian and a 13 mm eyepiece, I was able to clearly see a fair amount of detail in the galaxies M65 and M66 (in the lower belly of Leo). Plus I was able to see the galaxy NGC 3628 (just to the east of 65 and 66), but I couldn't quite make out NGC 3593 (just to the west of 65 and 66). I was able to see the spiral structure in M51, the Whirlpool (just before a cloud covered it up). Several of us were enjoying being able to view the globular cluster Omega Centauri just poking a couple of degrees above the excellent south horizon. Of course it wasn't that good looking through all that moist air, but it was clearly there. This means the southern limit is roughly -50 degrees. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but... I noticed that we entered the area by going *north* a couple of miles from J1 Panoche Rd (which goes along a valley), and couldn't help wondering--with such a good southern horizon--what it would be like in the next range of hills on the *south* side of J1. Maybe it's best to not dwell on that too much. :) Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue May 30 01:07:42 2006 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land star party evaluation In-Reply-To: <447BED35.1040304@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20060530080742.91828.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, I'm happy you enjoyed the site as much as I did. Incidently, in my 8" refractor at 150x I could make out the dust lane in 3628 which I had never done before. It was one of those situations where the observation preceded seeing a photograph (to verify what I'd seen) so I don't think I was imagining it. On Saturday night I could see the "hub" part of the Milky Way extending all the way out to Antares. On Sunday night it was encompassing Scorpio, something I never imagined I would see. Kevin Ritschel and I are pretty certain we saw Antares B in my refractor at 270x. South? The land to the south is good I'm sure, but it's not likely to be free, the roads are always an issue, and I think if we go above 2 hours drive we will get a significant drop off in interest. Also, there is a faint bit of light pollution visible to the south if there is haze/clouds to reflect the light (as there was Sunday night, which was otherwise flawless), so that's just going to become more visible. No site is perfect, that's just something you have to accept. The next site south I would consider would be Costa Rica :) other than that we're talking really subtle differences. Craig --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > I'd like to throw this in with the data we're > accumulating > regarding the Ayers site: > > With my 6" f/5 Newtonian and a 13 mm eyepiece, I was > able to > clearly see a fair amount of detail in the galaxies M65 > and > M66 (in the lower belly of Leo). Plus I was able to > see the > galaxy NGC 3628 (just to the east of 65 and 66), but I > couldn't quite make out NGC 3593 (just to the west of > 65 and > 66). > > I was able to see the spiral structure in M51, the > Whirlpool > (just before a cloud covered it up). > > Several of us were enjoying being able to view the > globular > cluster Omega Centauri just poking a couple of degrees > above > the excellent south horizon. Of course it wasn't that > good > looking through all that moist air, but it was clearly > there. > This means the southern limit is roughly -50 degrees. > > Maybe I shouldn't say this, but... > I noticed that we entered the area by going *north* a > couple > of miles from J1 Panoche Rd (which goes along a > valley), > and couldn't help wondering--with such a good southern > horizon--what it would be like in the next range of > hills > on the *south* side of J1. Maybe it's best to not > dwell on > that too much. :) > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 30 19:17:53 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Looks like Valley Catering is a go Message-ID: <007b01c68458$6ccb7760$0300a8c0@robathome> I just talked to Shirley. She can do hamburgers, Swiss sausage, and veggie burgers for about $11. That coupled with the regular BBQ on Saturday should make a good combination. She is sending all of the stuff directly to me so we can close on this quickly. I updated all of the CalStar 2006 web stuff, but have not publicized it until we could close on the caterer. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 31 04:45:24 2006 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land star party evaluation In-Reply-To: <20060530080742.91828.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060530080742.91828.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <447D81D4.7020308@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > South? The land to the south is good I'm sure, but it's > not likely to be free, Well, actually, that's not completely true. Land is an asset, like money in the bank. If we were to find a better plot, we could sell this one and use the money to buy that one. The "donation" would still be in effect. In fact, I'd still call it "the Ayers site." > the roads are always an issue, and > I think if we go above 2 hours drive we will get a > significant drop off in interest. I was thinking of the hills to the south of J1, as opposed to north of J1, which is where the Ayers land is located. So, the overall travel time would be about the same. I have no idea whether there's even a good plot available back there, I'm just supposing here. > Also, there is a faint bit of light pollution visible to > the south if there is haze/clouds to reflect the light > (as there was Sunday night, which was otherwise > flawless), so that's just going to become more visible. Well, from what I saw Saturday, it was dark right down to the horizon toward the south. There was some glow around most of our horizon, except to the south. Plus, according to that light pollution map, it is a little darker to the south. So, I think I'm right about this. I remember there being a glow to our west and a smaller light dome to the south west. Perhaps that cloud glow you noticed was coming from there. Besides, if you can only see that glow from clouds, the sky wouldn't be usable anyway. > No site is perfect, that's just something you have to > accept. How about Moon Base Alpha? ;) The Hubble is pretty well placed. > The next site south I would consider would be > Costa Rica :) other than that we're talking really > subtle differences. I've heard there are plenty of astonishingly dark sites in New Mexico and Arizona. That's a little closer than Costa Rica. :) Dry air most of the time too. Gary > Craig > > > > --- Gary Mitchell wrote: > > >>I'd like to throw this in with the data we're >>accumulating >>regarding the Ayers site: >> >>With my 6" f/5 Newtonian and a 13 mm eyepiece, I was >>able to >>clearly see a fair amount of detail in the galaxies M65 >>and >>M66 (in the lower belly of Leo). Plus I was able to >>see the >>galaxy NGC 3628 (just to the east of 65 and 66), but I >>couldn't quite make out NGC 3593 (just to the west of >>65 and >>66). >> >>I was able to see the spiral structure in M51, the >>Whirlpool >>(just before a cloud covered it up). >> >>Several of us were enjoying being able to view the >>globular >>cluster Omega Centauri just poking a couple of degrees >>above >>the excellent south horizon. Of course it wasn't that >>good >>looking through all that moist air, but it was clearly >>there. >>This means the southern limit is roughly -50 degrees. >> >>Maybe I shouldn't say this, but... >>I noticed that we entered the area by going *north* a >>couple >>of miles from J1 Panoche Rd (which goes along a >>valley), >>and couldn't help wondering--with such a good southern >>horizon--what it would be like in the next range of >>hills >>on the *south* side of J1. Maybe it's best to not >>dwell on >>that too much. :) >> >>Gary >> >>_______________________________________________ >>SJAABoard mailing list >>SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From north at znet.com Wed May 31 07:25:16 2006 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land star party evaluation In-Reply-To: <447D81D4.7020308@aenet.net> References: <20060530080742.91828.qmail@web53815.mail.yahoo.com> <447D81D4.7020308@aenet.net> Message-ID: <4f34932c4a860436d39fac71c2ece6fc@znet.com> Gary: > I've heard there are plenty of astonishingly dark sites in New Mexico > and Arizona. Seen some of 'em. They're there. > Dry air most of the time too. That's the point, really. There usually is _some_ nearby light source (no matter how small) but no spread effect. The lack of moisture and particulate matter makes it dark down to the horizon line. Fairly startling when you see it. Not that it has anything to do with the discussion at hand. Dave North From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 31 07:43:40 2006 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Sep 30 03:57:33 2006 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers land star party evaluation In-Reply-To: <447D81D4.7020308@aenet.net> Message-ID: <008601c684c0$9be87d50$0300a8c0@robathome> Bob's main concern (echoed by myself) whether SJAA is interested in (and able to) operate the site and that there is enough interest in site to warrant its continued operation. I believed we answered the former the weekend. The issue is now the latter. We will be signing a long term lease with Bob since we wants to continue using the site himself. Selling the property in the next 10 to 20 years will not be an option. Any Memorandum of Understanding that I am a party to will have a clause that will sell the property back to him for $1 if we do not use it for astronomy within the next few years or attempt to sell it ourselves. If you believe this is the wrong piece of land then we should turn down the donation and look for a person that will contribute the money to purchase another piece of property. Rob Hawley