From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Feb 1 00:11:50 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Feb 1 00:08:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Going to let CASS certification expire In-Reply-To: <000001c74594$66061720$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <000001c74594$66061720$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45C1A0C6.2050809@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > The CASS certification for our mail addresses will expire before the next > labels are printed. Certification is not required for the class of mail we > use. Since the last two mailings did not get a barcode, I am inclined to > just let it expire. For what it's worth, it's OK with me. Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu Feb 1 21:39:00 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Thu Feb 1 21:39:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 Message-ID: <20070201222521.R23736@koopm.best.vwh.net> The Agenda for the board meeting has been posted to http://koopm.best.vwh.net/SJAABoardMeetingFeb2007.pdf Please let me know of any changes or addtions you would like to make. Also, please look over the following sites: Gregory Award: http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html More posted by JVN in a previous board discussion: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2001-December/001109.html http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2002-January/001125.html More of this thread can be read in the board archive. Legal Documents: Here is a good example of the legal documents our club should have on it's website: http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/publicaccess.htm I really like their star party disclaimer: http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/sp.html http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/liability_release_form.htm See you Saturday. Mike From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu Feb 1 23:20:10 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu Feb 1 23:20:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 In-Reply-To: <20070201222521.R23736@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070201222521.R23736@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <2416.75.24.95.64.1170400810.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Hi Mike, Thanks for taking the time to do the agenda. It is very interesting. It give an excellent overview of what's happening at the SJAA in a concise format. Personally, I'd like to see it posted such places at TAC, as there are topics that will be appealing to people here and there in the document. It is just good information that will encourage participation. I know you're very busy, personally, which is why I'm thanking you, but I hope this becomes a regular monthly posting by SJAA presidents in the future.... I like the info on the Gregory Award too, I didn't know all that info about Bob Ahsrord, who I knew as an aquaintance. I'm sorry to see that liability is a concern elsewhere too, perhaps the club should look at ways to get signed releases when possible, to at least minimize exposure, and mitigate any potential problems by showing its due diligence. Mark Michael Koop wrote: > The Agenda for the board meeting has been posted to > http://koopm.best.vwh.net/SJAABoardMeetingFeb2007.pdf > > Please let me know of any changes or addtions you would like to make. > > > Also, please look over the following sites: > > Gregory Award: > http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html > > More posted by JVN in a previous board discussion: > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2001-December/001109.html http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2002-January/001125.html More of this thread can be read in the board archive. > > > Legal Documents: > Here is a good example of the legal documents our club should have on it's > website: > > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/publicaccess.htm > > I really like their star party disclaimer: > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/sp.html > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/liability_release_form.htm > > > See you Saturday. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Feb 1 23:36:43 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Feb 1 23:33:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 In-Reply-To: <20070201222521.R23736@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070201222521.R23736@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <45C2EA0B.1000101@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > The Agenda for the board meeting has been posted to > http://koopm.best.vwh.net/SJAABoardMeetingFeb2007.pdf > > Please let me know of any changes or addtions you would like to make. > > > Also, please look over the following sites: > > Gregory Award: > http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html Is there a specific reason why it's only given once to any one particular individual or did that just seem like a good idea at the time? > More posted by JVN in a previous board discussion: > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2001-December/001109.html > http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2002-January/001125.html > More of this thread can be read in the board archive. > > > Legal Documents: > Here is a good example of the legal documents our club should have on > it's website: > > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/publicaccess.htm > > I really like their star party disclaimer: > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/sp.html > http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/liability_release_form.htm If our liability insurance carrier doesn't think something like this makes enough of a difference to give us any significant break on our premiums, then I'd suggest it's probably not worth the effort. Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri Feb 2 00:36:18 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Fri Feb 2 00:36:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Willing to do pre_Marathon talk on March 9 In-Reply-To: <006201c73fea$8b72eb50$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <006201c73fea$8b72eb50$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20070202012456.C53352@koopm.best.vwh.net> Thanks Rob. I'll announce it in the next class. Could you please submit an article to the Ephemeris for the class and plugging the Marathon on the 17th? You might want to make or refer to this website for weather. http://koopm.best.vwh.net/messier.html Mike On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Rob Hawley wrote: > I would be willing to do a pre Messier Marathon talk on March 9. This would > be more advanced than the normal beginner talk. > > The current schedule skips the normal 3rd quarter class in March and has a > 1st quarter class later in the month. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri Feb 2 18:40:04 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Fri Feb 2 18:40:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gordon also up for re Election Message-ID: <20070202193434.T48136@koopm.best.vwh.net> Please note that the Ephemeris Article is wrong. It is an odd year, therefore 5 board members need to be re elected. Gordon Reade has served since 2005 and is up for re election. Gordon, are you willing to serve another term? I was a little surprised to see this after all this debate about who was running. Mike From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 18:52:58 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri Feb 2 18:53:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gordon also up for re Election In-Reply-To: <20070202193434.T48136@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070202193434.T48136@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <000401c7473e$69eaf9e0$0300a8c0@robathome> It reinforces my point that the paper trail could use some improvement. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Fri Feb 2 18:19:35 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:50:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: School star party statistics, Feb.2, 2007 References: <459D7284.2D6D@svpal.org> Message-ID: <45C3F137.1222@svpal.org> Hi, All, Here are the tallies as of Feb.2 at 6 pm, for the school star party program, 2006-7 school year. 2006: Events conducted in Aug: 1 Events conducted in Sep: 1 Events conducted in Oct: 6, plus 1 mostly cloudy event Events conducted in Nov: 5, plus 1 mostly cloudy, 1 rained on, 5 cancel at noon. Events conducted in Dec: 1, plus 5 cancelled at noon. 2007: Events conducted in Jan: 8, of which 2 were partly cloudy but scored successful. I distinguish between cancelled (decision at noon is to scratch); verses cloudy, clouded out (we go to the school but the sky is bad). Coming attractions: Firm Provisional (explanation) Feb 5 0 Mar 9 1 (waiting approval) Apr 1 1 (rain date) Nov 1 0 (next school year) Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri Feb 2 21:08:55 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Fri Feb 2 21:09:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 Message-ID: <393367.6740.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for putting together all this information. I'm beginning to get the impression that the liability forms serve no real purpose, because lawyers and judges blow past them so easily -- such as by saying that a liability form is no excuse for not taking obvious measures to ensure public safety. The "How to safely enjoy a star party" cautionary sheet that Lee and others talked about last month (and you have long talked about as well) might be more effective: 1. It is written in plain english, not legal mumbo jumbo, and thereform might actually get read by people 2. It would hopefully be viewed by a judge as an honest attempt at trying to ensure public safety. The saga continues! Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Koop To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:39:00 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 The Agenda for the board meeting has been posted to http://koopm.best.vwh.net/SJAABoardMeetingFeb2007.pdf Please let me know of any changes or addtions you would like to make. Also, please look over the following sites: Gregory Award: http://www.sjaa.net/ga.html More posted by JVN in a previous board discussion: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2001-December/001109.html http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/2002-January/001125.html More of this thread can be read in the board archive. Legal Documents: Here is a good example of the legal documents our club should have on it's website: http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/publicaccess.htm I really like their star party disclaimer: http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/sp.html http://www.eastvalleyastronomy.org/liability_release_form.htm See you Saturday. Mike _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070202/09f359ad/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Feb 3 00:06:07 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Feb 3 00:03:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 In-Reply-To: <393367.6740.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <393367.6740.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45C4426F.2060509@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > I'm beginning to get the impression that the liability forms serve no real purpose, because lawyers and judges blow past them so easily -- such as by saying that a liability form is no excuse for not taking obvious measures to ensure public safety. It's pretty easy for non-lawyer folks like us to get paranoid and start coming up with things like this, without knowing what we're doing. It seems to me if liability release forms really were needed or useful, our liability insurance carrier would insist we do it. They didn't. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Feb 3 00:26:32 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Feb 3 00:26:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 In-Reply-To: <45C4426F.2060509@aenet.net> References: <393367.6740.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> <45C4426F.2060509@aenet.net> Message-ID: <001101c7476d$02e72aa0$0300a8c0@robathome> On the other hand the lawyer we asked did recommend them. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Sat Feb 3 00:50:36 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat Feb 3 03:02:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Director's terms and election (Was: Gordon also up for re Election Message-ID: <45C44CDC.78A6@svpal.org> Rob Hawley wrote: > > It reinforces my point that the paper trail could use some improvement. The paper trail is intact! It is the Ephemeris that is SJAA, Inc.'s publication to our members. Do not look elsewhere; the EPHEMERIS is the publication of record. Any change of officers or directors must be reported in the Ephemeris. (Yes, it must also be in the meeting minutes.) See April 2005 when Crum, JVN, O'Shaughnessy, C&E Scull, and Reade were re-elected or elected. See March 2006 where Mitchell, Smith, Koop, and Hawley were re-elected. One more time by first name: Year to go: Gary, Dave Mike, Rob. Up for re-election: Rich, Lee, Craig, (open), Gordon. Properly, the board would appoint someone to that vacancy. Then, an hour later, s/he would stand for re-election. I will sit still for skipping that first step. Craig: Please take minutes at the general meeting as to who was elected, along with the minutes of the board meeting. When the business portion of the general meeting is over, note-taking may be discontinued. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Feb 3 17:32:49 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Feb 3 17:31:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA financial report, board meeting 2/3/2007 Message-ID: <45C537C1.7020702@aenet.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: bod 2_3_2007.txt Url: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070203/c6f5c9de/bod2_3_2007.txt From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Feb 3 17:33:48 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Feb 3 17:31:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] proposed no-forms-at-star-party policy Message-ID: <45C537FC.9080104@aenet.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: forms policy.txt Url: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070203/18a89cb0/formspolicy.txt From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Feb 3 17:54:44 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Feb 3 17:51:41 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Agenda for Board Meeting on Saturday Feb 3 In-Reply-To: <001101c7476d$02e72aa0$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <393367.6740.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> <45C4426F.2060509@aenet.net> <001101c7476d$02e72aa0$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45C53CE4.1080505@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > On the other hand the lawyer we asked did recommend them. True, but there's no down side for him personally and professionally to say that we should, even if it does us no good. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Feb 4 03:06:28 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 4 03:04:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Director's terms and election (Was: Gordon also up for re Election In-Reply-To: <45C44CDC.78A6@svpal.org> References: <45C44CDC.78A6@svpal.org> Message-ID: <45C5BE34.7000202@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: > >>It reinforces my point that the paper trail could use some improvement. > > > The paper trail is intact! It is the Ephemeris that is SJAA, Inc.'s > publication to our members. Do not look elsewhere; the EPHEMERIS is the > publication of record. Let's be clear: The minutes are the official records of the meetings. The newsletter is just that, a newsletter, the means by which the club communicates with its membership. If there's a discrepancy between the two, the minutes win. If the minutes don't have information that we need, but the Ephemeris does, then fine, get the info from the newsletter. But the newsletter is NOT the official record of the meetings, the minutes are. You don't even have to go to the law books, it's in the dictionary: See number 7. > Any change of officers or directors must be reported in the > Ephemeris. (Yes, it must also be in the meeting minutes.) It should be in the newsletter, but it isn't required. The bylaws talk about meeting minutes in several places, but there's nothing about the newsletter. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Feb 6 02:06:26 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 6 02:04:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] policy against forms at star parties Message-ID: <45C85322.6060606@aenet.net> It was brought to my attention that my previous posting of this policy (proposed at the time) may not have survived since it was an attachment. So, here it is in the body of this message. The board voted it in on 2/3/2007 "No forms at star parties policy" Doing paperwork in the dark at the scopes is far more disruptive than beneficial. Therefore, the SJAA is strongly opposed to the filling out and/or signing of written forms and questionnaires at star parties. This policy does not necessarily require SJAA astronomers to refuse to participate in students' paperwork requests, but rather is intended to strongly discourage the assignment of forms and questionnaires to students in the first place. Gary Mitchell From jvn at svpal.org Wed Feb 7 23:35:46 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Wed Feb 7 23:37:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) Message-ID: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> Hi, Mike, Rob, Gary, The Auction is very early this year, so publicity MUST bet out really soon, using the AANC Contacts , so that it gets into the various clubs' March issue, including our own. Last year's newsletter article is at and it needs just a little work. It's an odd year, so Jay Freeman is the auctioneer. The "commission" has to be re-worded into "donation", maybe a little more about flexible commissh.. uh, donations. For other clubs, driving directions must be added, grab that from for both freeways. Shall I take a stab at it, and send it out? It's just a few days -- Paul needs it by Feb.10. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu Feb 8 08:54:04 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu Feb 8 08:54:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> Message-ID: <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> Yes please do so. Old " The auction will begin at 1 p.m., and will run as long as needed. Seller may specify a minimum bid, which if not met, will return the item back to the seller with no commission applied. After the auction, buyers and sellers settle up using one check to (or from) SJAA and claim their items. Seller pays 10% commission, with a cap of $50 for any one item. We do not handle charge cards. There is no fee for bidder cards. " Suggestion The auction is also a fundraiser for SJAA. We ask that all sellers donate a portion of the proceeds (a minimum of 10% is requested) to help support the programs of SJAA. By default we will limit the donation to $50 on any single item. You can help more by donating all of the proceeds to SJAA. The auction will begin at 1 p.m., and will run as long as needed. Seller may specify a minimum bid, which if not met, will return the item back to the seller with no donation applied. After the auction, buyers and sellers settle up using one check to (or from) SJAA and claim their items. We do not handle charge cards. There is no fee for bidder cards. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Feb 9 02:17:53 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 9 02:14:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> Message-ID: <45CC4A51.7070808@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Hi, Mike, Rob, Gary, > > The Auction is very early this year, so publicity MUST bet out really > soon, using the AANC Contacts , so that it > gets into the various clubs' March issue, including our own. > > Last year's newsletter article is at > and it needs just a little > work. It's an odd year, so Jay Freeman is the auctioneer. The > "commission" has to be re-worded into "donation", maybe a little more > about flexible commissh.. uh, donations. For other clubs, driving > directions must be added, grab that from > for both freeways. > > Shall I take a stab at it, and send it out? It's just a few days -- > Paul needs it by Feb.10. Sure, go for it. I realize it's getting late for discussing this, but are we sure we want a swap after the auction? Last year the swap following the auction was pretty anemic. The swap in the fall was good, I'm sure the auction will be good too, but trying to do both at once is asking a bit much. I know I'm going to be very busy after the auction and won't be able to deal with swap forms etc. Last year the swap people were folding up shop by the time I got a chance to catch my breath from the auction. We could just not mention the swap in the announcement. If people want to set up after the auction anyway, fine, I'm not going to stop them. But how about not making it a planned event? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Feb 9 02:40:14 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 9 02:37:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > Yes please do so. > > > Old > > " The auction will begin at 1 p.m., and will run as long as needed. Seller > may specify a minimum bid, which if not met, will return the item back to > the seller with no commission applied. After the auction, buyers and sellers > settle up using one check to (or from) SJAA and claim their items. Seller > pays 10% commission, with a cap of $50 for any one item. We do not handle > charge cards. There is no fee for bidder cards. " > > Suggestion > > The auction is also a fundraiser for SJAA. We ask that all sellers donate a > portion of the proceeds (a minimum of 10% is requested) to help support the > programs of SJAA. By default we will limit the donation to $50 on any > single item. You can help more by donating all of the proceeds to SJAA. I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole dynamic has changed. There was no cap or limit at the swap, but many folks with big ticket items worked out a lesser donation on their own anyway. Everyone understands what "voluntary donation, 10 percent suggested" means. If we suggest no more than $50, people will accept that. Let them decide the limits. This is a fund raiser after all, let's not shoot ourselves in the foot. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri Feb 9 08:22:15 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri Feb 9 08:22:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net> Message-ID: <001301c74c66$76bea810$0300a8c0@robathome> >I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary >donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one >asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. > >Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole >dynamic has changed. That is the way both Jim's and my program work per the direction of the board. There is not time enough to change the program before the auction, but with my program I could just manually remove the limit on large items. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Fri Feb 9 12:04:51 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Fri Feb 9 12:10:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net> <001301c74c66$76bea810$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45CCD3E3.3090@svpal.org> Gary wrote: > > >I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary > >donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one > >asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. > > > >Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole > >dynamic has changed. > Rob Hawley wrote: > That is the way both Jim's and my program work per the direction of the > board. There is not time enough to change the program before the > auction, but with my program I could just manually remove the limit on > large items. Only at the direction of the seller. It's been announced that it'll work that way. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Feb 9 14:55:56 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 9 14:52:50 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <001301c74c66$76bea810$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org> <009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net> <001301c74c66$76bea810$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45CCFBFC.2060801@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: >>I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary >>donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one >>asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. >> >>Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole >>dynamic has changed. > > > That is the way both Jim's and my program work per the direction of the > board. Direction of the board? I remember we discussed this (along with other auction topics), but I don't recall any vote or even a consensus. If you do, perhaps you could point me to it. Gary > There is not time enough to change the program before the auction, > but with my program I could just manually remove the limit on large items. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri Feb 9 15:51:43 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri Feb 9 15:51:50 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Max donation amount In-Reply-To: <45CCFBFC.2060801@aenet.net> References: <45CAD2D2.704@svpal.org><009c01c74ba1$bdd4b480$0300a8c0@robathome> <45CC4F8E.3090100@aenet.net><001301c74c66$76bea810$0300a8c0@robathome> <45CCFBFC.2060801@aenet.net> Message-ID: <002701c74ca5$40865a10$0300a8c0@robathome> The change was made to the original program in 1996 REM Master file a parameter; cap commission at $50 (1996) That is the way both Jim's and the new program operate. In the new program the max amount is configurable. The specs for the program were published several times. I was specifically asked during a board meeting to add a feature to override all other calculations and specify the exact dollar amount for the entire set of copies of a single time. So having a maximum donation amount was clearly the intent of the board. In any event neither program is going to change before the auction. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sun Feb 11 15:43:21 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 11 15:43:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] nominations to Observatory Committee Message-ID: At the next Board meeting I plan to make a number of nominations to the Observatory Committee. At this juncture I think we need as much depth in as many areas as possible. Craig has also indicated that he is interested in more people who might help. It some point (soon) I think we should also start thinking about designating an "executive committee", (perhaps Craig and Gary?) to negotiate tentative land deals. According to our bylaws this can be done with a specific vote of the board where we give specific limited powers to this executive committee. I would think that a "2 year lease with an option to buy" might be just dandy. This would allow us to truly see if we could be organized and enthused enough to run an observing site. Steven Nelson (looking for names and seconds for nominations) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070211/f2befedc/attachment.html From pkohlmil at best.com Tue Feb 13 00:45:41 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Tue Feb 13 00:46:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] March FM In-Reply-To: <1302.75.24.95.64.1168709038.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com> References: <45A74F76.6045@svpal.org> <45A840B3.3040008@aenet.net> <45A8434B.7F80@svpal.org> <45A8C231.60205@aenet.net> <1302.75.24.95.64.1168709038.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com> Message-ID: <018d01c74f4b$57fcdf40$07f69dc0$@com> Any Deep Sky stuff for March? Paul From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Tue Feb 13 07:06:08 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Tue Feb 13 07:25:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: March FM In-Reply-To: <018d01c74f4b$57fcdf40$07f69dc0$@com> References: <45A74F76.6045@svpal.org> <45A840B3.3040008@aenet.net> <45A8434B.7F80@svpal.org> <45A8C231.60205@aenet.net> <1302.75.24.95.64.1168709038.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com> <018d01c74f4b$57fcdf40$07f69dc0$@com> Message-ID: <3098.75.24.95.64.1171379168.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > Any Deep Sky stuff for March? > Paul Yes, I sent it on Saturday the 10th. It was a very long list (maybe 60 objects) which I suggested you pare down as necessary. I can pare it down, but I won't be able to do so until after 9pm tonight. Or I can resend this morning... your choice.... Mark From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue Feb 13 23:34:15 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Tue Feb 13 23:34:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) Message-ID: <448011.62088.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> >From the minutes..... ====================================================== ==== December 2, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ====================================================== ==== ..... ..... There was extensive discussion around two issues: 1) The possible loss of income as a result of asking people to specify their donation to be 10% or $50 cap whichever is less. At the end of the discussion we decided to let people specify their donation at 10% or a dollar amount cap they specify, whichever is less. 2) The possible need for people to change their donation at the end of the auction during the checkout process. We decided that it would be important to let people adjust the amount of their donation up or down as the case may be. ..... ..... ///Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary Mitchell To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 2:55:56 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) Rob Hawley wrote: >>I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary >>donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one >>asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. >> >>Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole >>dynamic has changed. > > > That is the way both Jim's and my program work per the direction of the > board. Direction of the board? I remember we discussed this (along with other auction topics), but I don't recall any vote or even a consensus. If you do, perhaps you could point me to it. Gary > There is not time enough to change the program before the auction, > but with my program I could just manually remove the limit on large items. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070213/3beef691/attachment.html From pkohlmil at best.com Wed Feb 14 00:48:02 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Wed Feb 14 00:48:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] March Ephemeris Message-ID: <000801c75014$da0b4c50$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> The March Ephemeris is ready for preview. http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0703/EphMar07.pdf Your efforts in helping make the Ephemeris better are greatly appreciated. This month the newsletter is 12 pages long and that's after postponing a full page article about Project ASTRO and an article from Jane Houston Jones and removing the Solar System stats and not having an article about the March General Meeting. There are a few graphic elements but just a few. But if additions are necessary, please send them in. This newsletter will go to the printer early Thursday morning. Paul K -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070214/08898d07/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Feb 14 01:54:41 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 14 01:51:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) In-Reply-To: <448011.62088.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> References: <448011.62088.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45D2DC61.7090105@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: Thanks Craig. So, there was a consensus, but we did not direct that there will be an automatic default $50 cap. Gary >>From the minutes..... > > ====================================================== > ==== > December 2, 2006 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig > Scull > ====================================================== > ==== > > ..... > ..... > There was extensive discussion around two issues: > 1) The possible loss of income as a result of asking > people to specify their donation to be 10% or $50 cap > whichever is less. > > At the end of the discussion we decided to let people > specify their donation at 10% or a dollar amount cap > they specify, whichever is less. > > > 2) The possible need for people to change their > donation at the end of the auction during the checkout > process. > > We decided that it would be important to let people > adjust the amount of their donation up or down as the > case may be. > > ..... > > ..... > > ///Craig > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Gary Mitchell > To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 2:55:56 PM > Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Auction XXVII -- April 1, 2007 (no fooling!) > > Rob Hawley wrote: > >>>I really object to that "default limit." By making it a voluntary >>>donation, any limits are automatically applied by the donor. No one >>>asks for donations and then tells donors to hold back. >>> >>>Those limits made sense when we required a commission, but that whole >>>dynamic has changed. >> >> >>That is the way both Jim's and my program work per the direction of the >>board. > > > Direction of the board? > > I remember we discussed this (along with other auction topics), > but I don't recall any vote or even a consensus. If you do, > perhaps you could point me to it. > > Gary > > >> There is not time enough to change the program before the auction, >>but with my program I could just manually remove the limit on large items. >> >> >>Rob Hawley >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>SJAABoard mailing list >>SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From jvn at svpal.org Wed Feb 14 02:08:21 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Wed Feb 14 03:10:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] March Ephemeris References: <000801c75014$da0b4c50$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <45D2DF95.8D9@svpal.org> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > The March Ephemeris is ready for preview. > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0703/EphMar07.pdf > Your efforts in helping make the Ephemeris better are greatly > appreciated. Hi, Paul, The calendar on page 1 should have an entry for Rob Hawley's Messier class. It's on the year2007.htm page, but probably added after you captured the material for March. The entry reads: 9 -Fr- Special Astronomy class at Houge Park, 7:30 pm. Rob Hawley will conduct a Messier Marathon preparation class. I see a note in Rob's article about the marathon, but for quick reference, it seems right to also include it in the calendar. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Wed Feb 14 07:42:47 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Wed Feb 14 07:43:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] March Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <000801c75014$da0b4c50$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> References: <000801c75014$da0b4c50$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <3659.75.24.95.64.1171467767.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> Gregory Award article, first word second paragraph missing the "J"... Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > The March Ephemeris is ready for preview. > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0703/EphMar07.pdf > Your efforts in helping make the Ephemeris better are greatly appreciated. > > This month the newsletter is 12 pages long and that's after postponing a > full page article about Project ASTRO and an article from Jane Houston > Jones and removing the Solar System stats and not having an article about > the March General Meeting. There are a few graphic elements but just a > few. > > But if additions are necessary, please send them in. This newsletter will > go to the printer early Thursday morning. > > Paul K_______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed Feb 14 21:28:55 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Wed Feb 14 21:28:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] March Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <3659.75.24.95.64.1171467767.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> References: <000801c75014$da0b4c50$0800a8c0@PKHPXPP> <3659.75.24.95.64.1171467767.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> Message-ID: <20070214222216.F12486@koopm.best.vwh.net> >From Gary previous coments on the Auction here is my Suggested Change for Auction Article: Replace Paragraph starting with "The auction is also a fundraiser... With this paragraph: The auction is a fundraiser for the SJAA. In the past, we charged a flat 10% commission with a $50 cap on any one item. It was brought to our attention that this might prevent your payment from being completely tax deductible and possibly could complicate things for the club. So, we have eliminated the mandatory commission and any payments to the club are now voluntary donations, thus are definitely tax deductible. Our Auction program has been updated so now, you can voluntarily donate any portion of your sales to the SJAA. You can also cap the maximum amount of the donation to any value you wish! For example, say you wish to sell an LX200 telescope. When you register the scope, you can set the donation value to 20% with a cap of $100. Say the scope sells for $1000, we would calculate your donation to be $100 since the cap was reached. Think of your donation as a tip. Remember, tip for good service! You can help even more by donating the item to the SJAA! Typically, 80% of the auction revenue is from such donations. Paul, go with this or any changes from Gary. Use your discression. Mike > > Paul Kohlmiller wrote: >> The March Ephemeris is ready for preview. >> http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0703/EphMar07.pdf >> Your efforts in helping make the Ephemeris better are greatly appreciated. >> >> This month the newsletter is 12 pages long and that's after postponing a >> full page article about Project ASTRO and an article from Jane Houston >> Jones and removing the Solar System stats and not having an article about >> the March General Meeting. There are a few graphic elements but just a >> few. >> >> But if additions are necessary, please send them in. This newsletter will >> go to the printer early Thursday morning. >> >> Paul K_______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From pkohlmil at best.com Sun Feb 18 19:29:19 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sun Feb 18 19:30:15 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] nominations to Observatory Committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007501c753d6$24b336e0$6e19a4a0$@com> Just got your voice-mail. I'm wondering myself if the clouds will clear later tonight. Alas, my name on the Weather Sky Clock only means I sent a check to the guy who does these things. I have no other knowledge. Saturday night I waited for the thin clouds to disappear before I gave up. I think of this as M81/M82 season. Right now, it's pretty overcast in Gilroy. PK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070218/95fe0ba3/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 08:07:43 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon Feb 19 08:07:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Capping the donation In-Reply-To: <448011.62088.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> References: <448011.62088.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015701c75440$16eb2da0$0300a8c0@robathome> I should also clarify that a 100% donation is a 100% donation. No caps. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon Feb 19 16:36:05 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 19 16:36:40 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directors meeting Message-ID: Gentlepeople, I had not planned on spending so much time in administrating duties for the SJAA as serving as an officer would involve, but if nominated, I would run (which way?), and if elected I would serve. I do not think there is much of a chance of any "land donation" AKA Willow Springs in the next year. I think that the efforts of an Observatory Committee has been very useful and could indicate a growth path for the club (it happened for the Riverside club). I strongly support that effort. But Rob would be such a gung-ho active president on many fronts. The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two directors call for it. I call for a meeting Friday Feb 23 at 7:00 PM. The meeting is to discuss and vote on this one motion: Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee "Resolved, the Board directs the Secretary of the SJAA to write a letter to our member Bob Ayres to politely decline any further interest in his observing land. Further, the Board dissolves the Observatory Committee at this time." This is a formal motion that needs a call from a second director to be valid. It is giving at least 72 hours notice that a vote will be taken. The bylaw states that after the discussion at the meeting - there will be 94 hours for votes to be recorded (by the Secretary). This motion will allow a 'plebesite' at this time that could clear the Observatory issue off the table and allow Rob to be President with a clear concience. If the call is seconded, the chat list should also be informed. Steven Nelson, director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070219/2e3faf18/attachment.html From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Mon Feb 19 16:54:22 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Mon Feb 19 16:53:33 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directors meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DA46BE.9090705@resource-intl.com> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two > directors call for it. Interesting! I didn't realize that..... > Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is the benefit of doing that? As it stands right now, there is to my point of view a very amicable relationship. Is there some signed agreement that is weighing on the SJAA? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070219/b808c907/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Mon Feb 19 17:34:59 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon Feb 19 17:35:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting References: Message-ID: <000d01c7548f$565becf0$d3f71345@180edt> Hi Steven, Let's slow this down and talk about the land deal and the By-laws... at our next board meeting. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelsonastro@aol.com To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Gentlepeople, I had not planned on spending so much time in administrating duties for the SJAA as serving as an officer would involve, but if nominated, I would run (which way?), and if elected I would serve. I do not think there is much of a chance of any "land donation" AKA Willow Springs in the next year. I think that the efforts of an Observatory Committee has been very useful and could indicate a growth path for the club (it happened for the Riverside club). I strongly support that effort. But Rob would be such a gung-ho active president on many fronts. The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two directors call for it. I call for a meeting Friday Feb 23 at 7:00 PM. The meeting is to discuss and vote on this one motion: Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee "Resolved, the Board directs the Secretary of the SJAA to write a letter to our member Bob Ayres to politely decline any further interest in his observing land. Further, the Board dissolves the Observatory Committee at this time." This is a formal motion that needs a call from a second director to be valid. It is giving at least 72 hours notice that a vote will be taken. The bylaw states that after the discussion at the meeting - there will be 94 hours for votes to be recorded (by the Secretary). This motion will allow a 'plebesite' at this time that could clear the Observatory issue off the table and allow Rob to be President with a clear concience. If the call is seconded, the chat list should also be informed. Steven Nelson, director ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070219/4e85a3ca/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Mon Feb 19 18:46:24 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Mon Feb 19 18:52:15 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Message-ID: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> I completely understand the frustration that people experience when working with Bob. Some donors require business plan type detail and some don't. Some know what they want and some do not. However, I don't think we lose anything by keeping the conversation going with Bob. Regardless of whether he actually has an interest in donating his land or not, he does seem to have a genuine interest in helping us find a site, and in my mind serves as another member of the observatory committee. For example, Bob is going to lead a trip to Williams Hill to help us scout this out as a possible option. Based on what we've heard from Bob he may be seriously looking to relocate to Arizona and to utilize an Arizona Skies type rental arrangement to avoid the capital cost and logistics time of constructing something at his land in Willow Springs. It's not impossible that he may be thinking to donate $100k from his land profits to an endowment to help the club finance a site that was on BLM land. I would like to keep this option "open." That's my take on things. Regardless of the details, I don't mind keeping the conversation going. I think he has some good ideas that are worth exploring further. It's been somewhat of a pattern that those who deal directly with Bob quickly get frustrated and emotions get flared (Mark Wagner an exception to this rule). I believe this may have been partly why I was designated the single point of contact between Bob and SJAA. I have not enforced this recently, because I wanted to see what his reaction would be to different perspectives and questions. If someone needs to work directly with Bob to discuss space planning and preparation for our upcoming series of star parties, then that's an entirely valid reason to speak with him directly. my .02 Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Rich N To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:34:59 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Hi Steven, Let's slow this down and talk about the land deal and the By-laws... at our next board meeting. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelsonastro@aol.com To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Gentlepeople, I had not planned on spending so much time in administrating duties for the SJAA as serving as an officer would involve, but if nominated, I would run (which way?), and if elected I would serve. I do not think there is much of a chance of any "land donation" AKA Willow Springs in the next year. I think that the efforts of an Observatory Committee has been very useful and could indicate a growth path for the club (it happened for the Riverside club). I strongly support that effort. But Rob would be such a gung-ho active president on many fronts. The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two directors call for it. I call for a meeting Friday Feb 23 at 7:00 PM. The meeting is to discuss and vote on this one motion: Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee "Resolved, the Board directs the Secretary of the SJAA to write a letter to our member Bob Ayres to politely decline any further interest in his observing land. Further, the Board dissolves the Observatory Committee at this time." This is a formal motion that needs a call from a second director to be valid. It is giving at least 72 hours notice that a vote will be taken. The bylaw states that after the discussion at the meeting - there will be 94 hours for votes to be recorded (by the Secretary). This motion will allow a 'plebesite' at this time that could clear the Observatory issue off the table and allow Rob to be President with a clear concience. If the call is seconded, the chat list should also be informed. Steven Nelson, director _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070219/700aea92/attachment-0001.html From rnapo at znet.com Mon Feb 19 19:31:49 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon Feb 19 19:32:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call forDirectorsmeeting References: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101c7549f$a8837830$d3f71345@180edt> Hi Craig, Very interesting post! If Bob is thinking of selling his Willow Springs property, and if he is thinking of donating $100k from the sale... maybe we could find a way to come up with the difference between the $100k and the amount he wants for the land? Lots of "ifs" but it is something to keep in mind. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Scull To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call forDirectorsmeeting I completely understand the frustration that people experience when working with Bob. Some donors require business plan type detail and some don't. Some know what they want and some do not. However, I don't think we lose anything by keeping the conversation going with Bob. Regardless of whether he actually has an interest in donating his land or not, he does seem to have a genuine interest in helping us find a site, and in my mind serves as another member of the observatory committee. For example, Bob is going to lead a trip to Williams Hill to help us scout this out as a possible option. Based on what we've heard from Bob he may be seriously looking to relocate to Arizona and to utilize an Arizona Skies type rental arrangement to avoid the capital cost and logistics time of constructing something at his land in Willow Springs. It's not impossible that he may be thinking to donate $100k from his land profits to an endowment to help the club finance a site that was on BLM land. I would like to keep this option "open." That's my take on things. Regardless of the details, I don't mind keeping the conversation going. I think he has some good ideas that are worth exploring further. It's been somewhat of a pattern that those who deal directly with Bob quickly get frustrated and emotions get flared (Mark Wagner an exception to this rule). I believe this may have been partly why I was designated the single point of contact between Bob and SJAA. I have not enforced this recently, because I wanted to see what his reaction would be to different perspectives and questions. If someone needs to work directly with Bob to discuss space planning and preparation for our upcoming series of star parties, then that's an entirely valid reason to speak with him directly. my .02 Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Rich N To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:34:59 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Hi Steven, Let's slow this down and talk about the land deal and the By-laws... at our next board meeting. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelsonastro@aol.com To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting Gentlepeople, I had not planned on spending so much time in administrating duties for the SJAA as serving as an officer would involve, but if nominated, I would run (which way?), and if elected I would serve. I do not think there is much of a chance of any "land donation" AKA Willow Springs in the next year. I think that the efforts of an Observatory Committee has been very useful and could indicate a growth path for the club (it happened for the Riverside club). I strongly support that effort. But Rob would be such a gung-ho active president on many fronts. The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two directors call for it. I call for a meeting Friday Feb 23 at 7:00 PM. The meeting is to discuss and vote on this one motion: Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee "Resolved, the Board directs the Secretary of the SJAA to write a letter to our member Bob Ayres to politely decline any further interest in his observing land. Further, the Board dissolves the Observatory Committee at this time." This is a formal motion that needs a call from a second director to be valid. It is giving at least 72 hours notice that a vote will be taken. The bylaw states that after the discussion at the meeting - there will be 94 hours for votes to be recorded (by the Secretary). This motion will allow a 'plebesite' at this time that could clear the Observatory issue off the table and allow Rob to be President with a clear concience. If the call is seconded, the chat list should also be informed. Steven Nelson, director _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070219/fab3982e/attachment.html From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Mon Feb 19 19:36:35 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Mon Feb 19 19:36:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting In-Reply-To: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1644.75.24.95.64.1171942595.squirrel@webmail7.pair.com> Craig Scull wrote: > > Regardless of whether he actually has an interest in donating his land or > not, he does seem to have a genuine interest in helping us find a site, > and in my mind serves as another member of the observatory committee. Well put Craig, I completely agree... > It's been somewhat of a pattern that those who deal directly with Bob > quickly get frustrated and emotions get flared (Mark Wagner an exception > to this rule). I believe this may have been partly why I was designated Thanks Craig, I think Bob's a great guy and a great asset, to everyone. I think its the perfect situation for Bob right now, he has contact with a good club, he is enjoying having company at the property, he seems to like the company, the SJAA benefits with some summer events (in whatever manner they can be accommodated), and perhaps in the future there will be more direct involvement between Bob and the SJAA. Its a great site, We're lucky to have a friend like Bob. You just sait it more succinctly. Mark From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Feb 20 03:18:56 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 20 03:15:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting In-Reply-To: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <464817.26097.qm@web54506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45DAD920.3090001@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > I completely understand the frustration that people experience when working with Bob. Some donors require business plan type detail and some don't. Some know what they want and some do not. > > However, I don't think we lose anything by keeping the conversation going with Bob. > > Regardless of whether he actually has an interest in donating his land or not, he does seem to have a genuine interest in helping us find a site, and in my mind serves as another member of the observatory committee. > > For example, Bob is going to lead a trip to Williams Hill to help us scout this out as a possible option. Based on what we've heard from Bob he may be seriously looking to relocate to Arizona and to utilize an Arizona Skies type rental arrangement to avoid the capital cost and logistics time of constructing something at his land in Willow Springs. It's not impossible that he may be thinking to donate $100k from his land profits to an endowment to help the club finance a site that was on BLM land. I would like to keep this option "open." > > That's my take on things. Regardless of the details, I don't mind keeping the conversation going. I think he has some good ideas that are worth exploring further. > > It's been somewhat of a pattern that those who deal directly with Bob quickly get frustrated and emotions get flared (Mark Wagner an exception to this rule). I believe this may have been partly why I was designated the single point of contact between Bob and SJAA. I have not enforced this recently, because I wanted to see what his reaction would be to different perspectives and questions. > > If someone needs to work directly with Bob to discuss space planning and preparation for our upcoming series of star parties, then that's an entirely valid reason to speak with him directly. > > my .02 > Craig For the record, all of my discussions with Bob have been just me talking, as an interested club member. I made no claim to represent the club and am not trying to muscle in on Craig's job as the single point of contact. It's just that I've had questions that weren't getting answered. Some still haven't really been answered, but my main one has. As Craig pointed out, dealing with Bob can be frustrating. I've discovered that most of it seems to come from the fact that Bob is looking at this whole thing from a completely different perspective. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Feb 20 03:25:48 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 20 03:22:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA nomination for 2007 president - call for Directorsmeeting In-Reply-To: <000d01c7548f$565becf0$d3f71345@180edt> References: <000d01c7548f$565becf0$d3f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <45DADABC.30709@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > Hi Steven, > > Let's slow this down and talk about the land deal and the By-laws... at our next board meeting. > > Rich I agree, there is no great rush... especially with something that so fundamentally steers the club as this. This sort of thing should be discussed at length with the whole club. Such a motion represents a fundamental shift in the "flavor" of the club. Some might argue that shift has already happened. Whether it has or not isn't the point. We've wanted a dark site of our own for a very long time, long before I even joined. This motion would drive a stake through that heart. When I joined some 17 years ago, most of what we did was go to dark sites. Now we mostly do public outreach. My impression has been that's partly because a dark site of our own has been out of reach and some of our usual dark sites have become less accommodating. There for a while it looked like a dark site was about to just fall into our lap, and we all were getting rather excited about it. But that now seems unlikely. Still, it shows such a possibility exists. What I don't complete understand is what caused some of us to turn so solidly against it recently. Gary Steven Nelson wrote: > The last amendment to our By-laws allow a meeting via-email if two > directors call for it. I call for a meeting Friday Feb 23 at 7:00 PM. The meeting > is to discuss and vote on this one motion: > > Motion to Decline a Land Deal and to Dissolve the Observatory Committee > "Resolved, the Board directs the Secretary of the SJAA to write a letter to > our member > Bob Ayres to politely decline any further interest in his observing land. > Further, the Board > dissolves the Observatory Committee at this time." > > This is a formal motion that needs a call from a second director to be > valid. It is giving at least 72 hours notice that a vote will be taken. The > bylaw states that after the discussion at the meeting - there will be 94 hours > for votes to be recorded (by the Secretary). > > This motion will allow a 'plebesite' at this time that could clear the > Observatory issue off the table and allow Rob to be President with a clear > concience. If the call is seconded, the chat list should also be informed. > > Steven Nelson, director From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 09:35:33 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Feb 20 09:35:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] RE: all for Director's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01b601c75515$86e335a0$0300a8c0@robathome> >Article 3 Section 9 [as amended in 2001] "3. Prior to the call for >votes*, any director may request that the matter be postponed until the >next physical meeting. That request will be honored unless 2/3 of the >directors vote to deny it." I request that this matter be postponed until the next physical meeting. Rob Hawley From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Tue Feb 20 10:51:55 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Tue Feb 20 10:51:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Label Party tonight at Houge Message-ID: <20070220114634.F19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> Just Picked up the Ephemeris from the printer. How about we meet at Houge tonight, Tue. Feb 20th at 8:30 PM? Gary, please confirm you will be there with the labels and seals. Unfortunately, we have an additional task this month. We need to redline the date in the calendar for Rob's class which was mistakenly listed to be on the 23rd, but is in the 9th date slot. Mike From rnapo at znet.com Tue Feb 20 11:16:59 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Feb 20 11:17:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Label Party tonight at Houge References: <20070220114634.F19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <001f01c75523$b23c6fb0$55f71345@180edt> See you at 8:30pm. Rich > Just Picked up the Ephemeris from the printer. > How about we meet at Houge tonight, Tue. Feb 20th at 8:30 PM? > Gary, please confirm you will be there with the labels and seals. > > Unfortunately, we have an additional task this month. > We need to redline the date in the calendar for Rob's class which was > mistakenly listed to be on the 23rd, but is in the 9th date slot. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Tue Feb 20 12:03:48 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Tue Feb 20 12:03:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Sorry, but.... Message-ID: <45DB5424.6000000@resource-intl.com> I have to say this. It has bothered me tremendously over the past day, having read comments about Bob Ayers on this list. This is a PUBLIC mailing list. I do not find Bob to be frustrating at all. I have to think it is your own expectations that are causing your frustrations. Didn't all ya'lls mommas teach you if you don't have something good to say.... .... .... ?????? I definitely stand on Bob's side on this one.... Sheesh! From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 13:06:59 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Feb 20 13:07:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Label Party tonight at Houge In-Reply-To: <001f01c75523$b23c6fb0$55f71345@180edt> References: <20070220114634.F19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> <001f01c75523$b23c6fb0$55f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <01ca01c75533$0fcd3bf0$0300a8c0@robathome> I was going to run the labels yesterday, but was unable to get the mail due to the holiday. The labels will be sent to Gary after lunch. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 16:14:23 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Feb 20 16:14:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Membership Report for Feb 07 Message-ID: <01dc01c7554d$3da53b30$0300a8c0@robathome> We are continuing the downward trend of the last year. After dipping in the May of 2005 to 268 the paid membership increased to a peak of 298 in January 06. Since May 06 it has been declining to the current level of 281. *****************Current Month of Expiration********************* Last SJAA Meeting 2/3/2007 Report Date 2/20/2007 expired 69 Jan-07 7 Feb-07 12 Mar-07 18 Apr-07 11 May-07 24 Jun-07 52 Jul-07 22 Aug-07 27 Sep-07 19 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 19 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 14 Feb-08 14 Mar-08 6 more than 13 months 9 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 281 email delivery 31 Labels Generated 291 S&T Members 159 New Members since last meeting 2 current + complementary 315 ***************When did current members join************** 2007 5 2006 59 2005 33 2004 28 2003 30 2002 16 2001 9 < 2001 101 total 281 **************Which members did not renew*************** 2007 0 2006 0 2005 27 2004 12 2003 10 2002 4 2001 0 < 2001 16 total 69 ******************Membership Levels********************** Total Paid Complementary New 12/15/2004 311 285 26 11 1/19/2005 308 284 24 5 2/23/2005 304 279 25 3 3/25/2005 303 279 24 5 4/19/2005 303 277 26 3 5/18/2005 294 268 26 4 6/15/2005 296 270 26 3 7/20/2005 302 275 27 11 8/17/2005 311 282 29 10 9/14/2005 315 286 29 5 10/12/2005 312 284 28 10 11/9/2005 319 290 29 8 12/14/2005 322 293 29 7 64 in 2005 1/11/2006 328 298 30 9 2/10/2006 321 292 29 5 3/8/2006 325 298 5/11/2006 323 295 28 8 6/7/2006 318 290 28 3 8/9/2006 315 285 30 10 9/7/2006 318 289 29 7 10/4/2006 316 285 31 7 12/13/2006 321 289 32 2 1/10/2007 319 286 33 4 58 in 2006 2/20/2007 315 281 34 2 Rob Hawley From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Tue Feb 20 17:43:05 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Tue Feb 20 17:43:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Fw: Chilean Skies on Sale ! In-Reply-To: <000901c75555$af07e5e0$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> References: <000901c75555$af07e5e0$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> Message-ID: <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> I'll bring it up at a board meeting. I suppose we could "glue" it to another announcement so that it is more transparent to our members. We should at least verify that the company is reputable before we do. I see Kevin S. is advertising on the page along with other reputable groups. Personally, I do not mind directed spam such as this. This ad might entice me to look into a vacation down in Chile. Mike On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Bob & Brenda Havner wrote: > Mike, > > I received this today. I didn't know if would be appropriate to post thought > you or the board should make the call. > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- From: "QUASAR CHILE" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:29 AM > Subject: Chilean Skies on Sale ! > > >> Dear San Jose Astronomical Association, >> >> There are many recent tours for amateur astronomers that have been >> organized or are currently being promoted to visit the Atacama region of >> Northern Chile. These groups include the Astronomical Society of the >> Pacific, Sky & Telescope, Astronomy Magazine, and MIT Alumni. The >> Southern Hemisphere sky is a compelling attraction for every lover of >> astronomy and these organizations prove that Northern Chile is "the best >> place on Earth" from which to observe. In addition, Chile's tourist >> facilities are especially developed for international travelers who wish >> to enjoy its outstanding natural wonders and cultural attractions. >> >> QuasarChile can offer members of your astronomy club outstanding >> astro-tours of the Atacama for a substantial discount from the prices that >> are charged by the above organizations. Our tours are longer and more in >> depth than other tours and include observations with our new 10-inch Meade >> RCX400 telescope and other instruments. We invite you to check us out at >> www.quasarchile.cl We hope to hear from you soon. >> >> ATACAMA ASTRONOMY TRAVEL OPPORTUNITY >> We have the pleasure to inform you about an opportunity for you to join a >> group that is being organized for this coming November 11, 2007 >> (CONFIRMED). Price USD $2179 (the international airfare is not included). >> >> The Atacama astronomy tour will last for 8d/7n in Chile and will include >> the following activities: >> >> - a visit to the Very Large Telescope (VLT) >> - a visit to the site of the future Atacama Large Millimeter Array (ALMA >> currently under construction) >> - two opportunities for private nighttime observing >> - use of the latest generation of amateur instrumentation (Meade RCX400) >> - a visit to the University of Chile Department of Astronomy >> - visits to the best tourist sites in the vicinity of San Pedro de Atacama >> - a visit to a vineyards near Santiago >> - and more >> >> Please let us know if you would consider this option and we will confirm >> the cost and itinerary details. >> >> With kind regards, >> >> QC >> >> >> -- >> QUASARCHILE >> General Salvo 114 >> 750-0669 Providencia >> Santiago CHILE >> >> Tel: ++56-2-2353518 >> Fax: ++56-2-2361329 >> >> www.quasarchile.com >> www.quasarchile.cl >> www.astronomy.cl >> ---- >> " Don't keep your friends in the dark about Atacama astronomy - the >> darkest most beautiful skies on the planet. Include QC in your >> newletters or link to our website. " >> >> > From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 17:59:14 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Feb 20 17:59:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Fw: Chilean Skies on Sale ! In-Reply-To: <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <000901c75555$af07e5e0$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <01dd01c7555b$e3e79b60$0300a8c0@robathome> There is another Chili trip by local travel agent Melita Thorp August 11 - 19, 2007 http://www.melitatrips.com/chile/index.html Of course the TravelQuest Costa Rica trip will also happen in February of next year. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 18:02:33 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Feb 20 18:02:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Fw: Chilean Skies on Sale ! References: <000901c75555$af07e5e0$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <01de01c7555c$5a2eb0b0$0300a8c0@robathome> I should add that Astronomy Magazine == Melita Thorp. I would hesitate to endorse the Chilean company without references. Melita I can unconditionally recommend. Rob Hawley >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob Hawley [mailto:robhawley@earthlink.net] >Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:59 PM >To: 'Business list for SJAA board of directors and members'; 'Bob & Brenda >Havner' >Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] Re: Fw: Chilean Skies on Sale ! > >There is another Chili trip by local travel agent Melita Thorp August 11 - >19, 2007 > >http://www.melitatrips.com/chile/index.html > > >Of course the TravelQuest Costa Rica trip will also happen in February of >next year. > > >Rob Hawley > From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Feb 21 04:59:25 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 21 04:56:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Fw: Chilean Skies on Sale ! In-Reply-To: <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <000901c75555$af07e5e0$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> <20070220183112.N19289@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <45DC422D.4000706@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > I'll bring it up at a board meeting. > > I suppose we could "glue" it to another announcement so that it is more > transparent to our members. We should at least verify that the company > is reputable before we do. > I see Kevin S. is advertising on the page along with other reputable > groups. > > Personally, I do not mind directed spam such as this. > This ad might entice me to look into a vacation down in Chile. > > Mike I would *strongly* advise NOT re-posting spam of any kind. Of course it looks enticing. All ads (spam) are designed to be enticing. If you feel you've discovered something that might be of interest to some SJAA members, then print in out and put in on the table at the meetings with the other newsletters and handouts. However, we need to be very cautious about even appearing to endorse something like this without checking it out very thoroughly first... Especially spam sent cold to us by e-mail. Gary From Nelsonastro at aol.com Wed Feb 21 09:26:12 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 21 09:26:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] call for Directors meeting - fails for lack of a second EOM Message-ID:


**************************************
Check out free AOL at http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070221/31deaea0/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Feb 22 11:40:49 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 22 11:41:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] straw poll on investing in a dark sky Observing Site? i.e. Observatory Committee Message-ID: Board members (or bored members?), Is there really enough interest to invest any club money in any land deal? For instance, if we needed to put one of our $5,000 CD's into the fees and down payment for some property (just say 5 acres that we got cheap, raw land, in boonies no improvements, flat enough to use at least 2 acres) - Observatory Fund would be used for site improvements (hope for more donations of $ and time) - maintenance and taxes would be paid by users I'm curious, which Board members would be inclined to give "thumbs up", which "thumbs down"? I think in the past JVN, when he was last on the Board said he wouldn't be interested. Craig and I have said that we think this type of thing is a good club investment. Rob has indicated his recent inclinations. - but what about the rest of you? You can just e-mail me in private (_nelsonastro@aol.com_ (mailto:nelsonastro@aol.com) ) if you don't really like to have straw vote inclinations to be preserved as part of the public email record. In that case - I'll just post the totals so you can chew on it a bit before our next physical meeting.


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/e6d5db53/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Feb 22 12:19:27 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 22 12:19:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] eventual motion to let Bob off the hook Message-ID: Board members and friends, TAC has in its public observing site summaries a link to a web page with the SJAA name on it indicating that the Willow Springs site is up for donation. (rather - go check it out yourself for exact wording and tone). What I think I have heard at the Board meetings and through off-the-record e-mails is that this is probably now less than 10 percent of a chance. (note that this is really not any kind of a quantatative issue!). I would like to think, since we have been public about this before, that we could kindly and gently "let him off the hook" in a vote of the Board, through a kindly worded letter from Craig. This would not be to say that we don't continue to talk to him, observe with him, and accept his gracious offers of sharing his Willow Springs land later this year for some club-sponsored observing. (i.e, we'll port-the-potty and wack-the-weeds). I think this is kinder and gentler than letting it stay in the public domain as it is. (everything is archived!) Do you think it is kinder to just wait until he retracts his offer? I would rather not have to put him, or any potential donor, in that position. Steven Nelson (who badly wants to set up a site like the SDAA's!!!) [who lusts "in his heart" for a lot to place his dome at the "end-of-the-ridge"]


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/8ab9a5ea/attachment.html From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu Feb 22 12:33:24 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu Feb 22 12:33:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] eventual motion to let Bob off the hook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DDFE14.1040205@resource-intl.com> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > > [who lusts "in his heart" for a lot to place his dome at the > "end-of-the-ridge"] Why don't you buy some property and do it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/45c41cfb/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu Feb 22 12:37:18 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu Feb 22 12:37:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list Message-ID: <002f01c756c1$3f273740$0300a8c0@robathome> Mark Wagner made an interesting proposal concerning mail list handling that I will put on the agenda for the March meeting. The current board mailing list is completely public. While email only goes to those subscribed, anyone can access the archives and the contents are in all of the search engines. The public nature of the current mail list has lead to some inappropriate postings recently. At present our only alternative to have a private discussion is to exchange private emails among the board members. That can lead to "black chamber" type concerns. In every case I can think of everything I have sent off list can, and should, be available to all of the subscribers of the board list. Mark's solution is to create a separate subscriber's only list that is not generally accessible. That way we can have discussions, but also seek the counsel of wider group than just the current board. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu Feb 22 12:50:15 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu Feb 22 12:50:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list In-Reply-To: <002f01c756c1$3f273740$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <002f01c756c1$3f273740$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45DE0207.4070803@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > At present our only alternative to have a private discussion is to exchange > private emails among the board members. That can lead to "black chamber" > type concerns. Rob, The only addition I'd make to your posting is, once the delicate portions of a discussion are hashed out on the private list, the results, or the continued discussion be moved to the public list. I do appreciate that there are times private dialog is necessary among the board members, I just think what the board does should remain as visible as possible, in order that other interested parties (beyond just me ;-) are able to participate. An only a private list could give the appearance of a "secret club" within the club. From north at znet.com Thu Feb 22 13:26:26 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Thu Feb 22 13:26:36 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list In-Reply-To: <002f01c756c1$3f273740$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <002f01c756c1$3f273740$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <0b8f245aecc7e0d5dd7049adebc6d3d1@znet.com> Rob: > Mark's solution is to create a separate subscriber's only list that is > not > generally accessible. On the face of it, this is reasonable -- though perhaps a bit more of a reaction than necessary. If I get this right, all it means really is: no web archive. I sort of like that, but I also think there would be a need for two things: 1. Some sort of official archive that is: 2. Accessible to members. Dave From rnapo at znet.com Thu Feb 22 13:33:31 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu Feb 22 13:33:43 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Club observatory? References: Message-ID: <002c01c756c9$1a00be20$72f61345@180edt> Hi Steven, I'd like to hear more about your vision for an observatory that would involve the SJAA. Thanks, Rich -snip Steven Nelson (who badly wants to set up a site like the SDAA's!!!) [who lusts "in his heart" for a lot to place his dome at the "end-of-the-ridge"] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/b7a132f0/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Feb 22 13:34:23 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 22 13:34:47 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list Message-ID: In some ways I think it OK if we keep it as it is, but just take care of what you post to it. Some portions of discussions need to be "hashed out in private" but it seems to work OK when these are copied to one or two other Board members. Gary tried to get more clarity in his understanding of Bob's thinking (a few members were invited to essentially listen in). In the end I think Craig's offical reports in the minutes of the SJAA have adequately represented what is going on. But before we (Board) are all agreed on something we really owe it to ourselves to ask for the wise and sage advice of people like JVN, Dave, Akkana, and whoever else is really interested in more details. At some point I hope we can set a goal of 1 hour board meetings. Consent Calendar stuff (like Robs great membership #s and Gary's $) can just be e-mailed before the meeting and adopted in 2 min! If we get some preliminary questions hashed out in private, and some input from members and Board out on the table before we sit down at the table (literaly) we will be able to make more informed community decisions. -I didn't quite understand Rob's idea. Was this Board members only?--


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/1c1bddac/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu Feb 22 13:56:06 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu Feb 22 13:55:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301c756cc$416677e0$0300a8c0@robathome> The board list is a good mix of former board members (e.g. JVN and Dave North) plus influential representatives from the local astronomy community (e.g. Mark Wagner). They are exactly the people that I would like to get involved in frank discussions. I would have liked to get them involved early in the original WS discussion, but was not able to due the limitations of the current board mail list. I reiterate that there have recently been a number of inappropriate posts on the current board list. I will wait until the next board meeting to reply to those conversations. The board asked me in the past (as list admin) to excise anything too egregious from the permanent record. So far that standard has not quite been met. Members of the board are always representing SJAA. There is no such thing as a "I'm just speaking as an individual" discussion when you are on the board of directors of a corporation. Finally I agree with Mark on another point. We are required to document our decisions and should be prepared to summarize our discussions at the earliest possible time on the public list. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu Feb 22 14:01:24 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu Feb 22 14:01:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Proposal for internal board mailing list In-Reply-To: <004301c756cc$416677e0$0300a8c0@robathome> References: <004301c756cc$416677e0$0300a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <45DE12B4.3060207@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > The board list is a good mix of former board members (e.g. JVN and Dave > North) plus influential representatives from the local astronomy community > (e.g. Mark Wagner). While my tenure was short, I too was a board member. But to most, it is easily and thankfully forgettable! From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu Feb 22 14:14:35 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu Feb 22 14:14:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Club observatory? In-Reply-To: <002c01c756c9$1a00be20$72f61345@180edt> References: <002c01c756c9$1a00be20$72f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <45DE15CB.70903@resource-intl.com> Rich N wrote: > Hi Steven, > > I'd like to hear more about your vision for an observatory that would > involve the SJAA. I would be interested in that too. Perhaps the purpose of the observatory fund can also be discussed. I don't know if there had been any changes in the past several years, but I do believe when the fund was initiated, and with subsequent funding by contributors, there *was* a vision. This goes back about 10 or 11 years in my memory though... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070222/076bd899/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Feb 23 02:09:46 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 23 02:06:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] eventual motion to let Bob off the hook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DEBD6A.5070905@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > Board members and friends, > > TAC has in its public observing site summaries a link to a web page with > the SJAA name on it indicating that the Willow Springs site is up for > donation. It's a *potential* donation. Nothing has been settled or agreed to. > (rather - go check it out yourself for exact wording and tone). What I > think I have heard at the Board meetings and through off-the-record e-mails is > that this is probably > now less than 10 percent of a chance. (note that this is really not any > kind of a quantatative issue!). > > I would like to think, since we have been public about this before, that > we could kindly and gently > "let him off the hook" in a vote of the Board, through a kindly worded > letter from Craig. This would not > be to say that we don't continue to talk to him, observe with him, and > accept his gracious offers of > sharing his Willow Springs land later this year for some club-sponsored > observing. (i.e, we'll > port-the-potty and wack-the-weeds). > > I think this is kinder and gentler than letting it stay in the public > domain as it is. (everything is archived!) Do you think it is kinder to just > wait until he retracts his offer? What offer? > I would rather not have to put him, or any > potential donor, in that position. What position, of being a potential donor? > Steven Nelson This "letter" of yours would preemptively reject any possibility that he may decide to make the donation. It seems to me you didn't get very far with your motion, so now you're trying an end-run with this. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Feb 23 02:25:45 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 23 02:22:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] straw poll on investing in a dark sky Observing Site? i.e. Observatory Committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DEC129.9020205@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > Board members (or bored members?), > > Is there really enough interest to invest any club money in any land deal? > For instance, if we needed to > put one of our $5,000 CD's into the fees and down payment for some property > (just say 5 acres that we got cheap, raw land, in boonies no improvements, > flat enough to use at least 2 acres) A down payment? You need to be more specific. > - Observatory Fund would be used for site improvements (hope for more > donations of $ and time) > - maintenance and taxes would be paid by users > > I'm curious, which Board members would be inclined to give "thumbs up", > which "thumbs down"? > > > I think in the past JVN, when he was last on the Board said he wouldn't be > interested. Craig and I have > said that we think this type of thing is a good club investment. Rob has > indicated his recent inclinations. > - but what about the rest of you? If you're asking in general whether we'd like to see the SJAA have it's own dark site... then absolutely yes. If you're proposing something specific, then we need more details. I think I've been quite clear about my feelings. This club has wanted its own dark site for a very long time--as evidenced by the existence of our Observatory Fund. I agree. It sure would be nice to not have to worry about someone else's rules or generosity, (including the Parks Department). Gary From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri Feb 23 12:59:08 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Fri Feb 23 12:59:21 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today Message-ID: <20070223134226.N57802@koopm.best.vwh.net> I dropped off the March Ephem on Wednesday, Feb. 21 at 9:30 AM. Today, I received it in the mail at 95129, on Friday Feb. 23. The barcodes were added, and the seal arrived unbroken. I suspect the larger seal plus the 12 page issue help make it more machinable. I suggest board members reply to this message so that we can somewhat keep track on delivery time, although if you see some one in your box (950XX, 951XX, Others) has replyed, you really do not need to. I am still uncertain why December and January took a bit longer to deliver. Since Gary's Labels were successfully machined this time, we can take that of the list of suspected problems. Those small clear labels probably caused all the grief. Mike From jvn at svpal.org Fri Feb 23 14:22:54 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Fri Feb 23 15:52:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today References: <20070223134226.N57802@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <45DF693E.50E3@svpal.org> Michael Koop wrote: > > I dropped off the March Ephem on Wednesday, Feb. 21 at 9:30 AM. > Today, I received it in the mail at 95129, on Friday Feb. 23. > The barcodes were added, and the seal arrived unbroken. Likewise here in 95124-ville. About 11 am. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri Feb 23 18:17:36 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 23 18:17:51 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today Message-ID: 94040 not recieved yet (no worry) Is Tuesday the normal mailing party? Sorry I couldn't make it. December and January -- last week I had a discussion with my church secreta ry who takes care of a mailing of about 200 every month. Christmas rush - cards and packages - always messed up mail schedule. Bulk non-profit was always delayed to the last possible satutory day. If it could wait a week - it would always wait 7 days before being processed. She finally gave up and just mails first class. - Strategy not as expensive - Mail first class if within 3 weeks of Christmas. Only once or twice a year would we have this expense and usually we could use the cheapest rate. ? (anyway what do I know) I know you guys have been discussing this for two or three seasons! Steven


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070223/0513d79e/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Feb 24 02:36:22 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Feb 24 02:33:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today In-Reply-To: <20070223134226.N57802@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070223134226.N57802@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <45E01526.1050706@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > I dropped off the March Ephem on Wednesday, Feb. 21 at 9:30 AM. > Today, I received it in the mail at 95129, on Friday Feb. 23. > The barcodes were added, and the seal arrived unbroken. Mine arrived Friday too, same condition. Zip 95124. > I suspect the larger seal plus the 12 page issue help make it more > machinable. I suggest board members reply to this message so that we can > somewhat keep track on delivery time, although if you see some one in > your box (950XX, 951XX, Others) has replyed, you really do not need to. > I am still uncertain why December and January took a bit longer to deliver. > Since Gary's Labels were successfully machined this time, we can take > that of the list of suspected problems. There was no real reason to continue suspecting those, especially after the bulk mail clerk said they're fine. Just by looking at them, how could they be better? I still think it was simply due to the time of year and nothing we did would have helped... at least for the December issue. > Those small clear labels > probably caused all the grief. Some of those breaking could have done us in. All they had to do is see one broken seal--or worse, one got stuck in the machine with a broken seal and they'd pull the whole batch. That would explain the January issue. Or it simply could have been chance... no real reason, they just didn't. Maybe no one noticed that they *could* be machined. Bulk mail never gets first class treatment. We're riding in 3rd class coach, you know. ;) Gary From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat Feb 24 13:25:43 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 24 13:26:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] which way the straw blows - Observatory site Message-ID: Results so far of the informal question I asked of the Board about supporting a land purchase that might involve directly investing some club capital. This was of course hazy - but really just about starting land, not much more perhaps than 5 acres, not tied to Willow Springs. Board of Directors seems to be going 4 for [one of these is a very limited support] 1 against 4 abstain from discussion Past Board members 1 for [very limited] 1 against This does not impress me as the type of support that would be needed to succeed. I myself am an ardent supporter (and joined the Board again because of my interest). Perhaps the 4 that have not talked much are strong supporters - perhaps not. Something like land responsibility would work best I think if there were at least 6/9 ths -- pretty strong support on the Board. I don't think it needs to be unanimous or 8 -1 but I wouldn't feel too good about this not being sure of the majority needed to spend money and buy more insurance. So let's talk about it in person at the Board meeting. And let our Membership know about it!


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070224/c64dfc18/attachment.html From pkohlmil at best.com Sun Feb 25 13:01:09 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Sun Feb 25 13:01:31 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today In-Reply-To: <45DF693E.50E3@svpal.org> References: <20070223134226.N57802@koopm.best.vwh.net> <45DF693E.50E3@svpal.org> Message-ID: <00ca01c75920$1393b020$3abb1060$@com> Arrived in Gilroy (95020) on Friday. Sealed and with barcodes. PK -----Original Message----- From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Jim Van Nuland Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:23 PM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today Michael Koop wrote: > > I dropped off the March Ephem on Wednesday, Feb. 21 at 9:30 AM. > Today, I received it in the mail at 95129, on Friday Feb. 23. > The barcodes were added, and the seal arrived unbroken. Likewise here in 95124-ville. About 11 am. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From reade at stanford.edu Tue Feb 27 18:19:32 2007 From: reade at stanford.edu (Gordon Reade) Date: Tue Feb 27 18:49:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Mar Ephemeris Recieved Today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1172629172.45e4e6b4a9ae3@webmail.stanford.edu> Hello everyone. I just recived my SJAA Ephemeris today. Clear Skies Gordon Reade