From Nelsonastro at aol.com Tue May 1 09:19:12 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Tue May 1 09:19:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: Looks like pre-release drafting helps wording and accuracy! Terminology - minutes to match the Bylaws I decided to re-read the ByLaws after the many years since I last joined the Board. I discovered some items about "Committees" that we had sort of been very casual (or sloppy) about in the past. The "Observatory Committee" is one of the most recent examples. I had asked Rob and Craig in '06 if they needed any more help or backup on studies they were doing on that possible issue. They of course replied ' sure - we would like more interested members to help out' - but it was sort of unclear if that meant 'the committee' or 'ON the committee'. The ByLaws call for three committee type - "Executive" (we have never used), "Advisory" which means the Board appoints, and "President's" which means the President appoints. I checked back in th erecords - what kind of committee was the Observatory? It seems that Craig was appointed chair by Mike (that means a President's Committee ?) Anyway - when I though I was asked to help - and join the committee - it was unclear to me how that was to 'happen'. When some discussions with Ayers came up - Gary was of course supprised that "I was on the committee". He had been one of the original 4 (with Craig, Mike, Rob) -What is the CalStar Committee? If Rob has appointed (volunteered) himself and picks the members, it is a President's Committee. If the Board has appointed Rob it is an Advisory Committee (the Board appoints the other members) Is it an Executive Committee? thanks, think it over Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070501/b9096f77/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue May 1 16:40:07 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue May 1 16:38:31 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4637CFD7.8000105@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > -What is the CalStar Committee? > If Rob has appointed (volunteered) himself and picks the members, it is a > President's Committee. > If the Board has appointed Rob it is an Advisory Committee (the Board > appoints the other members) The board appointed it, made Rob the chair, and charged him with selecting the committee members. So, I guess this could be called a cross between a president's committee and an advisory committee. Is that important? Gary From north at znet.com Thu May 3 16:21:25 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Thu May 3 16:21:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Note From Jeff Moore Message-ID: After the recent New Horizons flyby of Jupiter and attendant sensational result, Jeff Moore sent me a note that includes: "Let the folks at the SJAA know that I will be happy to give a talk on these results this fall. Ask the program chair to contact me regarding available dates." So there you have it, should someone be interested in setting up a date. If you want to see a raw broadcast of the recent press conference, it's at: http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php? option=com_content&task=view&id=1954&Itemid=1 Dave North From north at znet.com Thu May 3 16:25:00 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Thu May 3 16:25:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Oh one other detail Message-ID: Contact Information: > Jeff Moore > NASA Ames Research Center, MS 245-3 > Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000 > ph. 650 604-5529?? FAX 650 604-6779 > NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS:? jeff.moore@nasa.gov From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 3 16:44:01 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 3 16:44:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Note From Jeff Moore References: Message-ID: <000801c78ddc$edd6d730$555ef842@180edt> Excellent. Thanks Dave! Rich > After the recent New Horizons flyby of Jupiter and attendant > sensational result, Jeff Moore sent me a note that includes: > > "Let the folks at the SJAA know that I will be happy to give a talk on > these results this fall. Ask the program chair to contact me regarding > available dates." > > So there you have it, should someone be interested in setting up a > date. If you want to see a raw broadcast of the recent press > conference, it's at: > > http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php? > option=com_content&task=view&id=1954&Itemid=1 > > > Dave North > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 3 16:54:16 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu May 3 16:54:05 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Note From Jeff Moore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463A7628.5090200@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > After the recent New Horizons flyby of Jupiter and attendant > sensational result, Jeff Moore sent me a note that includes: > > "Let the folks at the SJAA know that I will be happy to give a talk on > these results this fall. Ask the program chair to contact me regarding > available dates." Excellent, that'd be very interesting. Let's lock this in before other plans get made (either Jeff Moore or us). I never cease to be amazed at the great meeting talks the SJAA tends to have. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri May 4 19:03:39 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri May 4 19:02:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers Message-ID: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net> Two things regarding our meeting speakers: We normally give $25 to each speaker for travel costs or whatever, plus a complimentary membership. Our speaker fee has been $25 ever since I've been treasurer, I don't know when that was started. Due to the current cost of gas, an executive decision was made at the last meeting to increase the fee to $50. I'm not sure if that was OK or does it need a vote by the board? If the board way back when decided to simply give a speaker's fee, then the executive decision was probably OK. But if the board made it a fixed $25, then the board probably should vote on the increase. Secondly, who is/was our contact person for Ivan Linscott (November 2006 speaker) and Shilo Unruh (December 2006 speaker)? Whomever it was, please contact those two and ask if there was any problem cashing the speaker's fee check, or did they get our check in the first place? Our checks to them never cleared. (The president or our contact person usually presents the check and the offer of complementary membership, so I don't know for sure if they even got the checks.) The same is true for Doug Brown (Feb. speaker) and James Graham (March speaker), but let's give them another month or two... unless those checks weren't presented? Gary From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 4 19:19:16 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 4 19:19:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net> Message-ID: <003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> Hi Gary, Thanks for bringing this up. Speaker fees should be a topic for the next board meeting. I don't agree with the executive decision to double the speaker fee. That "little" increase would add up to $250 a year, assuming 10 speakers a year. Rich > Two things regarding our meeting speakers: > > We normally give $25 to each speaker for travel costs or whatever, > plus a complimentary membership. Our speaker fee has been $25 > ever since I've been treasurer, I don't know when that was started. > Due to the current cost of gas, an executive decision was made at > the last meeting to increase the fee to $50. I'm not sure if that > was OK or does it need a vote by the board? If the board way back > when decided to simply give a speaker's fee, then the executive > decision was probably OK. But if the board made it a fixed $25, > then the board probably should vote on the increase. > > Secondly, who is/was our contact person for Ivan Linscott (November > 2006 speaker) and Shilo Unruh (December 2006 speaker)? Whomever it > was, please contact those two and ask if there was any problem > cashing the speaker's fee check, or did they get our check in the > first place? Our checks to them never cleared. > > (The president or our contact person usually presents the check > and the offer of complementary membership, so I don't know for > sure if they even got the checks.) > > The same is true for Doug Brown (Feb. speaker) and James Graham > (March speaker), but let's give them another month or two... > unless those checks weren't presented? > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 4 19:31:03 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 4 19:31:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers In-Reply-To: <003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net> <003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> Message-ID: <001001c78ebd$6da93f80$0300a8c0@robathome> Remind me to put it on the agenda. We should vote on it and may not want it to apply to all speakers. As the other half of the executive decision, the increase just reflects the cost of getting to San Jose from either Santa Cruz or Berkeley. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 4 19:35:01 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 4 19:35:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net> <003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> Message-ID: <004101c78ebd$fb7ee8f0$2452f842@180edt> Are speakers turning us down because our speaker fee it too low? Do they even ask how much we plan to give them for their talk? Even at $3.50 per gallon for gas, $25 will get you close to 140 miles of driving if the car gets 20 mpg. I thought most of these speakers were in the area for other business and not driving up here from LA just to talk to our club. Rich > Hi Gary, > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > Speaker fees should be a topic for the next board meeting. I don't > agree with the executive decision to double the speaker fee. That > "little" increase would add up to $250 a year, assuming 10 speakers > a year. > > Rich > >> Two things regarding our meeting speakers: >> >> We normally give $25 to each speaker for travel costs or whatever, >> plus a complimentary membership. Our speaker fee has been $25 >> ever since I've been treasurer, I don't know when that was started. >> Due to the current cost of gas, an executive decision was made at >> the last meeting to increase the fee to $50. I'm not sure if that >> was OK or does it need a vote by the board? If the board way back >> when decided to simply give a speaker's fee, then the executive >> decision was probably OK. But if the board made it a fixed $25, >> then the board probably should vote on the increase. >> >> Secondly, who is/was our contact person for Ivan Linscott (November >> 2006 speaker) and Shilo Unruh (December 2006 speaker)? Whomever it >> was, please contact those two and ask if there was any problem >> cashing the speaker's fee check, or did they get our check in the >> first place? Our checks to them never cleared. >> >> (The president or our contact person usually presents the check >> and the offer of complementary membership, so I don't know for >> sure if they even got the checks.) >> >> The same is true for Doug Brown (Feb. speaker) and James Graham >> (March speaker), but let's give them another month or two... >> unless those checks weren't presented? >> >> Gary >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 4 20:00:59 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 4 20:01:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net><003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> <004101c78ebd$fb7ee8f0$2452f842@180edt> Message-ID: <004b01c78ec1$9c4f1810$2452f842@180edt> Per my GPS, it is 28.1 miles (one way) from UC Santa Cruz to Houge Park. Or, 56.2 miles round trip. Even with my big gas sucking SUV I could do the round trip for less than 25 bucks. Rich > Are speakers turning us down because our speaker fee is too low? > Do they even ask how much we plan to give them for their talk? > > Even at $3.50 per gallon for gas, $25 will get you close to 140 miles > of driving if the car gets 20 mpg. I thought most of these speakers > were in the area for other business and not driving up here from LA > just to talk to our club. > > Rich > >> Hi Gary, >> >> Thanks for bringing this up. >> >> Speaker fees should be a topic for the next board meeting. I don't >> agree with the executive decision to double the speaker fee. That >> "little" increase would add up to $250 a year, assuming 10 speakers >> a year. >> >> Rich >> >>> Two things regarding our meeting speakers: >>> >>> We normally give $25 to each speaker for travel costs or whatever, >>> plus a complimentary membership. Our speaker fee has been $25 >>> ever since I've been treasurer, I don't know when that was started. >>> Due to the current cost of gas, an executive decision was made at >>> the last meeting to increase the fee to $50. I'm not sure if that >>> was OK or does it need a vote by the board? If the board way back >>> when decided to simply give a speaker's fee, then the executive >>> decision was probably OK. But if the board made it a fixed $25, >>> then the board probably should vote on the increase. >>> >>> Secondly, who is/was our contact person for Ivan Linscott (November >>> 2006 speaker) and Shilo Unruh (December 2006 speaker)? Whomever it >>> was, please contact those two and ask if there was any problem >>> cashing the speaker's fee check, or did they get our check in the >>> first place? Our checks to them never cleared. >>> >>> (The president or our contact person usually presents the check >>> and the offer of complementary membership, so I don't know for >>> sure if they even got the checks.) >>> >>> The same is true for Doug Brown (Feb. speaker) and James Graham >>> (March speaker), but let's give them another month or two... >>> unless those checks weren't presented? >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SJAABoard mailing list >>> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jvn at svpal.org Fri May 4 23:55:44 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Fri May 4 23:57:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net> <003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> <004101c78ebd$fb7ee8f0$2452f842@180edt> Message-ID: <463C2A70.2200@svpal.org> Rich N wrote: > > Are speakers turning us down because our speaker fee it too low? > Do they even ask how much we plan to give them for their talk? Good questions! Dave, what are your experiences? I recall a NASA speaker was presented with the honorarium in an envelope. He said "No, I can't take this." I said it's not much, mostly gas money. He peeked into the envelope and said, "On, yes, I can take this. Thank you!" They are expected to take part in presenting their findings to the public. Clearly, there are NASA rules about taking money for making such presentations. > I thought most of these speakers > were in the area for other business and not driving up here from LA > just to talk to our club. Dave, can you enlighten? This is my understanding, too. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun May 6 00:09:43 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun May 6 00:08:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers In-Reply-To: <004b01c78ec1$9c4f1810$2452f842@180edt> References: <463BE5FB.7000809@aenet.net><003701c78ebb$c84ac3c0$2452f842@180edt> <004101c78ebd$fb7ee8f0$2452f842@180edt> <004b01c78ec1$9c4f1810$2452f842@180edt> Message-ID: <463D7F37.8020101@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > Per my GPS, it is 28.1 miles (one way) from UC Santa Cruz to Houge Park. > Or, 56.2 miles round trip. Even with my big gas sucking SUV I could do > the round trip for less than 25 bucks. Well, I've always assumed it was more than just for gas. A club this size can't pay much, but it's probably better than what they get from most clubs. I'm sure it doesn't hurt if we want them to come back some time. >> Are speakers turning us down because our speaker fee is too low? >> Do they even ask how much we plan to give them for their talk? >> Even at $3.50 per gallon for gas, $25 will get you close to 140 miles >> of driving if the car gets 20 mpg. I thought most of these speakers >> were in the area for other business and not driving up here from LA >> just to talk to our club. If you want to get real picky about the actual cost, you'd have to add in a lot more than just the cost of gas. Insurance, DMV fees, vehicle cost and repairs averaged over the expected number of miles driven, etc. etc. Not to mention giving them a little something as a 'thank you' for taking time out to come talk to us. I'm sure they don't expect it, especially from a club this size, but it's a nice gesture. The real question is: how much should we pay? How long has it been $25? It's been $25 since before I became treasurer. Gary >> Rich >> >>> Hi Gary, >>> >>> Thanks for bringing this up. >>> Speaker fees should be a topic for the next board meeting. I don't >>> agree with the executive decision to double the speaker fee. That >>> "little" increase would add up to $250 a year, assuming 10 speakers a >>> year. >>> >>> Rich >>> >>>> Two things regarding our meeting speakers: >>>> >>>> We normally give $25 to each speaker for travel costs or whatever, >>>> plus a complimentary membership. Our speaker fee has been $25 >>>> ever since I've been treasurer, I don't know when that was started. >>>> Due to the current cost of gas, an executive decision was made at >>>> the last meeting to increase the fee to $50. I'm not sure if that >>>> was OK or does it need a vote by the board? If the board way back >>>> when decided to simply give a speaker's fee, then the executive >>>> decision was probably OK. But if the board made it a fixed $25, >>>> then the board probably should vote on the increase. >>>> >>>> Secondly, who is/was our contact person for Ivan Linscott (November >>>> 2006 speaker) and Shilo Unruh (December 2006 speaker)? Whomever it >>>> was, please contact those two and ask if there was any problem >>>> cashing the speaker's fee check, or did they get our check in the >>>> first place? Our checks to them never cleared. >>>> >>>> (The president or our contact person usually presents the check >>>> and the offer of complementary membership, so I don't know for >>>> sure if they even got the checks.) >>>> >>>> The same is true for Doug Brown (Feb. speaker) and James Graham >>>> (March speaker), but let's give them another month or two... >>>> unless those checks weren't presented? >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SJAABoard mailing list >>>> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>>> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SJAABoard mailing list >>> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon May 7 09:59:50 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon May 7 10:00:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA speakers Message-ID: First "executive decisions" involving spending SJAA funds It is great having a President who can easily take an item like the Insurance add-on and quickly research and execute a fix. Even in the recent instance, the item should come up on the Agenda (as a "consent" item??) to make approval clear under Bylaws Article 6 (funds authorized by the Board, or perhaps officer action approved). It is also possible for the Board to pre-approve an officer(s) making a decision that will (or might) involve writting a check. So blanket pre-approval for a supplementary $25 in a speaker's check at the President's discretion fits this fine. Unlike appointing a President's Committee - I don't quite see where there is any allowance for a President to use an executive decision to spend money on a regular basis, at an amount the the President determines. Maybe an old Board action did this - up to a limit of $25. A new Board action could raise this permission to $50 but direct that most local speakers should be $25. SPEAKER FEE/HONORARIA - Philosophy - What do we want? Some local clubs invite the speaker to dinner (EAS and PAS sometimes). This is obviously to honor the speaker and connect closer with members of the club. In our case? Is this to honor the speaker by offsetting some personal cost (not necessary just $) that the speaker incures by enlightening us? Is this to exacly compenste for transportation cost? (i.e. the $0.37 ? per mile that the IRS says you can take for charitable driving?) I DON"T THINK SO. [NASA or UC may compenate this job related expense] But our speakers do 'rearrange' their schedule to speak with us on our terms. We can't give them back a 'gift of time', and maybe flowers are not appropriate and a hosted dinner impractical. When I was running an outside speaker series at Xerox PARC, we could offer a 'world class research audience' and travel expenses. I think it OK if we discuss keeping our setup basicly the same - and give an officer or two the discretion to add a supplement ($X) in out-of town cases. Board action is required. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070507/c04ee309/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 11 09:24:14 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 12 00:58:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Whiteoaks offline Message-ID: <003e01c793e8$d13f22a0$0400a8c0@robathome> I think it is time to take Morris? suggestion and move to a commercial service. Rob Hawley ________________________________________ From: Morris Jones [mailto:morrisjones@Shopzilla.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:10 AM To: bill@nineplanets.org; gary.d.spiers@jpl.nasa.gov; portuesi@jotabout.com; robhawley@earthlink.net; rozer@ois-online.com; edg@greenberg.org Cc: jane.h.jones@jpl.nasa.gov Subject: Whiteoaks offline Hi all, The computer running whiteoaks.com died yesterday.? I suspect a power supply failure. Unfortunately it happened while I was in San Francisco at JavaOne. I won't be able to get it back online until late Friday night. I don't have all of the email addresses of people who might be affected, so I'd appreciate it if you would pass on the message to others concerned if you have addresses. Affected domains: whiteoaks.com otastro.org sjaa.net sjbridge.org eastbayastro.org aanc email lists sfsidewalkastronomers.org fpoa.net islandastro.org I know there's never a good time for such things to happen.? If you have critical services, it might be a good time to consider moving to a commercial hosting service. All of the data is safe and backed up, and will all be available as soon as I can repair the computer. Meanwhile I can be reached at morrisjones@shopzilla.com or (626) 755-5415. Mojo From craigus at rocketmail.com Sat May 12 12:04:36 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat May 12 12:05:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion Message-ID: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> The site is back up so I am assuming that the mail lists are also functional... here are the notes from the motion we passed last night. Thanks Rob for the details you added. --Your seCraigtary The server that has been hosting the SJAA web site and maillists has crashed on Friday. Morris Jones who has long hosted our website as well as FPOA, MDAS, and several others asked " If you have critical services, it might be a good time to consider moving to a commercial hosting service." Rob announced the need for an emergency meeting at Houge Park on Friday via direct emails. Members present: -Rob Hawley -Mike Koop -Rich Neuschaefer -Gary Mitchell -Lee Hoglan -Gordon Reade -Craig Scull About a year ago we considered moving the web site, but at that time doing so would have been very expensive. This crash has caused us to reexamine the decision about where the SJAA web site and maillists should be hosted. Key factors driving the decision are: * The fact that Mojo has been maintaining/hosting our site for years and years, and there is the feeling that we should give some "thanks" to the time he has invested all these years by ultimately graduating ourselves to another hosting option * The website has become "mission critical" for many club activities. For example, membership payments and meal reservations for CalStar are processed through this site. Members rely on access to the site for information on SJAA events. Rob Hawley and people at other clubs who were affected by this crash have done some research and come up with what seems to be a better option for hosting- a commercial hosting service named LunarPages. As stated in email, this option is as follows: Basic 350 GB storage for $6.95 per month BUT more than one mail list is $2.95 per month additional per list(we currently run 4 lists) See http://www.lunarpages.com/ for more information... Another advantage of this hosting service is that they have almost identical services/software in place so the site will look identical to members. A motion was introduced by Rob Hawley to use LunarPages to host the web site and mail lists at a cost of approximately $20/month. The motion was seconded by Gordon and passed by unanimous vote. All were in favor. There were no oppositions or abstentions. The cost will go down $3/month for each mail list we migrate off of LunarPages (e.g. to Yahoo Groups). The chat list would be a good candidate to move. The payment list is used only to log payments and could be eliminated if Gary and Rob can determine an alternative. The website is active as of Saturday morning. Rob will work with Paul Kohlmiller and Morris to work out a transition plan. This will likely take at least until mid week. The site will likely be down for a couple of days while it is being moved. Rob and Paul will send additional information when it is available. There was also a consensus that honorarium should remain at $25. Thus it will not appear on the next agenda. From sol.man at indigoskies.com Sat May 12 17:27:13 2007 From: sol.man at indigoskies.com (Mark Taylor) Date: Sat May 12 17:27:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion In-Reply-To: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A few thoughts from a former board member (and current lunarpages customer)... On 5/12/07, Craig Scull wrote: > > Basic 350 GB storage for $6.95 per month BUT more than one mail list is > $2.95 per month additional per list(we currently run 4 lists) > See http://www.lunarpages.com/ for more information... > ... > The cost will go down $3/month for each mail list we migrate off of > LunarPages (e.g. to Yahoo Groups). Most or all of the lists could be conducted as forums, rather than strict "majordomo" style mailing lists (ie the ones which cost $3/ea). Yahoo groups is in fact just a forum based system with optional email notification. And if you choose your forum product wisely, you can find one that supports email notifications as well. The upside of the forum approach over y!groups, are multiple: * users will not be required to have yahoo accounts in order to use the sjaa lists * users won't have to see ads insinuated into the postings * everything will be on the sjaa domain (ie keeping it all "in house" and "on brand") And if for some reason you cannot obtain a forum product which emails, and you really need to have "push delivery" on some lists, then perhaps this solution at least means buying fewer lists. Regards, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070512/40d96876/attachment.html From akkana at shallowsky.com Sat May 12 17:57:25 2007 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sat May 12 17:57:29 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion In-Reply-To: References: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070513005725.GA23264@shallowsky.com> Mark Taylor writes: > Most or all of the lists could be conducted as forums, rather than strict > "majordomo" style mailing lists (ie the ones which cost $3/ea). Yahoo The problem with forums is that you have to log in to every forum you might be interested in. If you live and breathe SJAA and it's your only interest, that's no problem. But if you're interested in lots of different things, you're not going to remember to go to all those websites every day (let alone more often) to see whether there's anything new. > And if you choose your forum product wisely, you can find one > that supports email notifications as well. Then when there's a hot discussion you get a bunch of messages saying "There's a new message in a thread you're following", and you have to delete them all then go to the forum to find out whether it's a topic you're interested in. (And if it's something you'd rather hold off 'til later, too bad, because "view postings since I last logged on" won't show you those any more.) Ick. If you could get something like yahoo groups that lets each user choose either email or forum, that would be great. But most forum software doesn't offer that option. -- ...Akkana "Beginning GIMP: From Novice to Professional": http://gimpbook.com From jvn at svpal.org Sat May 12 18:59:08 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Sat May 12 19:01:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion References: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <464670EC.5BAB@svpal.org> Craig Scull wrote: > > The site is back up so I am assuming that the mail lists are > also functional... I just looked at your message headers -- the site and mailing lists are up, and running on Morris' server! So the crisis is past. This gives time to consider alternative services. One of them is SV-PAL , which is available to individuals and non-profit organizations. Tech support is rather slow as it's run partly by volunteers. I've been using it for perhaps 10 years, and problems have been rare. When needed, I dial in from Wisconsin to POP and SMTP my mail. From their fees page : Hosted Web Account: Hosted Web Account (80MB for $60/year) - $60 / year ($100 / year with PPP access) - 80MB email and file storage - Telnet, ftp, and pop access - Domain registration - Hosted web site (www.yourdomain.org) - Virtual Mail (you@yourdomain.org) Mailling lists using Mailman cost $12/year. PPP access means dialup. Numbers are available in San Jose and Mountain View. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From rnapo at znet.com Sun May 13 02:46:22 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun May 13 02:46:47 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion References: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801c79543$90fbd880$fbf71345@180edt> Thanks Mark! Rich A few thoughts from a former board member (and current lunarpages customer)... On 5/12/07, Craig Scull wrote: Basic 350 GB storage for $6.95 per month BUT more than one mail list is $2.95 per month additional per list(we currently run 4 lists) See http://www.lunarpages.com/ for more information... ... The cost will go down $3/month for each mail list we migrate off of LunarPages (e.g. to Yahoo Groups). Most or all of the lists could be conducted as forums, rather than strict "majordomo" style mailing lists (ie the ones which cost $3/ea). Yahoo groups is in fact just a forum based system with optional email notification. And if you choose your forum product wisely, you can find one that supports email notifications as well. The upside of the forum approach over y!groups, are multiple: * users will not be required to have yahoo accounts in order to use the sjaa lists * users won't have to see ads insinuated into the postings * everything will be on the sjaa domain (ie keeping it all "in house" and "on brand") And if for some reason you cannot obtain a forum product which emails, and you really need to have "push delivery" on some lists, then perhaps this solution at least means buying fewer lists. Regards, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070513/976979f4/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun May 13 07:16:44 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sun May 13 07:16:49 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion In-Reply-To: References: <885530.16294.qm@web54508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c79569$56560090$0400a8c0@robathome> I will look into forums. There is at least one list we have that this might work for. Rob Hawley _____ From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 5:27 PM To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] 5/11/2007 Hoage Park motion A few thoughts from a former board member (and current lunarpages customer)... On 5/12/07, Craig Scull wrote: Basic 350 GB storage for $6.95 per month BUT more than one mail list is $2.95 per month additional per list(we currently run 4 lists) See http://www.lunarpages.com/ for more information... ... The cost will go down $3/month for each mail list we migrate off of LunarPages (e.g. to Yahoo Groups). Most or all of the lists could be conducted as forums, rather than strict "majordomo" style mailing lists (ie the ones which cost $3/ea). Yahoo groups is in fact just a forum based system with optional email notification. And if you choose your forum product wisely, you can find one that supports email notifications as well. The upside of the forum approach over y!groups, are multiple: * users will not be required to have yahoo accounts in order to use the sjaa lists * users won't have to see ads insinuated into the postings * everything will be on the sjaa domain (ie keeping it all "in house" and "on brand") And if for some reason you cannot obtain a forum product which emails, and you really need to have "push delivery" on some lists, then perhaps this solution at least means buying fewer lists. Regards, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070513/a24cd21b/attachment-0001.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 10:40:01 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 10:40:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia Message-ID: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> A couple of people have sent me emails that they are reconsidering their Friday vote. I asked Morris to clarify what he wants to happen. His response is below. The $120 figure he cites is my best case. At the moment it will be more due to the number of mail lists we currently use. I plan to take no immediate action on the SJAA site. I am going to continue exploring lunarpages. I came up with a couple of questions while doing the research yesterday. If those are answered satisfactory then I know how to move the site without there appearing to be a change to the members. I also know how we can save some money with some small changes. For some other data points. FPOA is staying. MDAS is moving. Mojo is moving sidewalk astronomers at least temporarily because of bandwidth requirements. We do depend on the site being up. Bandwidth has occasionally been a problem. If we do stay on Monrovia we should definitely repeat the offer of either paying him or documenting a deduction. In the spirit of "eat your own dog food" I will probably move my site over there. I am currently paying EarthLink $21 / month for less service. Rob Hawley -----Original Message----- From: Morris Jones [mailto:mojo@whiteoaks.com] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:55 AM To: Rob Hawley Subject: Re: Some of the board having second thoughts about moving Rob Hawley wrote: > So to use my analogy, would you prefer we move? Can I share your response > with the board? Yes by all means share my response. Let me put it this way, I am honored and privileged to continue to host SJAA. I began hosting SJAA long ago under the domain astronomy.sanjose.ca.us when .us domain names were free. Originally our site was hosted on SEDS with the URL seds.org/~billa/sjaa.html or something like that. Mostly I wanted to see the club get and maintain its own domain name, have mailing lists with no advertising, and email addresses within our own domain space. Most clubs are using Yahoo groups for mailing lists. I also knew that I'd be able to attach to the domain as much disk space and email addresses as you could eat. The benefit for me is seeing that it's done right, impartially, and with the best possible face it can have toward the net in general. There's a small amount of pride in being able to offer and continue to offer that service to the club -- and you are my original home astronomy club. There is very little downside for me. The bandwidth demands of each club are pretty small, which is a good thing. My outgoing bandwidth is only 384 kbps. If the site were suddenly hugely popular, I'd have a serious problem. From the club's perspective it weighs out like this: Upside, free hosting (or cheap hosting -- you're welcome to contribute, but I probably will continue not to invoice), and assurances of an impartial host with an interest in the integrity of your net image. On the downside, you have very limited outgoing bandwidth, and no assurances of uptime in the case of equipment failures. When I go out of town on business or vacation, I don't currently have someone nearby who can fix a dead server. I'm working on that problem. I know more people in the area now who might be willing to barter that kind of help for me. Even so, I'll be relying on the kindness of friends. The site does have UPS protection against brief power outages, and backup snapshots made every four hours to a separate disk. I don't worry much about losing data. But there will be connectivity issues, and they never seem to come at a good time. The bottom line is that you'll certainly not hurt my feelings by moving the site to a reliable service. I'd get back a little bandwidth and the peace of one fewer organization relying on my machine. If I were a board member, and you offered me hosting that would provide services close to those on whiteoaks for around $120 a year, I think I'd vote to take it. If I had to give up no-advertising supported email lists, or email addresses within the domain, or whatever scripting I wanted, I'd be disappointed. Those are the trade-offs. The good news is that there's no rush. Best regards, Mojo -- Morris Jones Monrovia, CA http://www.whiteoaks.com Old Town Astronomers http://www.otastro.org From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 11:32:06 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 11:32:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Are we still putting seals on the mailer? Message-ID: <00fe01c79656$2d7c1950$0400a8c0@robathome> Postage rates and new rules go into effect on Monday. It would be really good if we could send the Ephemeris before then. One change that I saw on CNN was that folded mailers >>might<< be charged extra if they were not sealed. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Mon May 14 12:35:34 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Mon May 14 12:35:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > The $120 figure he cites is my best case. Might want to take a glance at: http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/website-hosting.shtml?host_shared-hosting The pricing is essentially incredible, but various postings on the web indicate they're for real, and the best-case scenario for using them is a light-traffic website like sjaa.net -- seems like a good fit. Note the unlimited mailing lists at no charge. Dave From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Mon May 14 15:21:15 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Mon May 14 15:21:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Are we still putting seals on the mailer? In-Reply-To: <00fe01c79656$2d7c1950$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00fe01c79656$2d7c1950$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20070514154811.D82058@koopm.best.vwh.net> We have been sealing the Ephemeris using one sticker at the top of the fold. We also have been using a larger clear seal since the ones donated by our printer were falling off. This may have been one of the factors in the delayed delivery in December and January. Our plan is to continue sealing, which has gotten us the best service. Usually, we complete the bulk mail prep in about an hour if we have 3 people help at the labeling party. Mike On Mon, 14 May 2007, Rob Hawley wrote: > Postage rates and new rules go into effect on Monday. It would be really > good if we could send the Ephemeris before then. > > One change that I saw on CNN was that folded mailers >>might<< be charged > extra if they were not sealed. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 14 15:24:26 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 14 15:24:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> Message-ID: <000601c79676$a22b6a10$6351f842@180edt> Thanks Dave! Rich > Rob Hawley wrote: >> The $120 figure he cites is my best case. > > Might want to take a glance at: > http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/website-hosting.shtml?host_shared-hosting > > The pricing is essentially incredible, but various postings on the web > indicate they're for real, and the best-case scenario for using them is > a light-traffic website like sjaa.net -- seems like a good fit. > > Note the unlimited mailing lists at no charge. > > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jvn at svpal.org Mon May 14 15:25:13 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon May 14 15:32:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] [Fwd: Offer to give a talk on X-ray Astronomy to the SJAA] Message-ID: <4648E1C9.477C@svpal.org> This is interesting. His previous talk was on 2002 March 30. From the calendar page: "Christopher Mauche of Lawrence Livermore Labs, on satellite observations of binary and cataclysmic variable stars." -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Christopher Mauche" Subject: Offer to give a talk on X-ray Astronomy to the SJAA Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:52:00 -0700 Size: 4403 Url: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070514/6dc624f6/attachment.mht From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 15:54:24 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 15:54:28 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> Message-ID: <011501c7967a$d1944480$0400a8c0@robathome> It looks like an interesting site for SJAA use. They seem to have SSH access which is required to open a terminal session. We have to specially request it. They seem to use mailman which is our current mail list infrastructure. The additional cost to maintain other mail links was rather silly. They allow access via FTP tools. I was using the transfer in the terminal program, but have since switched to FTP. This site's pricing is more in line with our needs. Two years would be $56 which is about half of MoJo's benchmark. This server does not supply as much storage, but 30 G is adequate. The extra performance is nice to have, but not critical. All in all this might be a better fit. This site is less interesting to me for my personal use. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 14 15:58:31 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon May 14 15:56:41 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] [Fwd: Offer to give a talk on X-ray Astronomy to the SJAA] In-Reply-To: <4648E1C9.477C@svpal.org> References: <4648E1C9.477C@svpal.org> Message-ID: <4648E997.9060007@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > This is interesting. His previous talk was on 2002 March 30. From > the calendar page: > > "Christopher Mauche of Lawrence Livermore Labs, on satellite > observations of binary and cataclysmic variable stars." This time it would be on X-ray views, that would be great... and this one just plopped down in our lap. Cool. :) Gary > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Offer to give a talk on X-ray Astronomy to the SJAA > From: > "Christopher Mauche" > Date: > Mon, 14 May 2007 13:52:00 -0700 > To: > pkohlmil@best.com, jvn@svpal.org > > > To whom it may concern, > > Hello. My name is Christopher Mauche. I am a professional astronomer > and a physicist working at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. A > few weeks ago, at the invitation of my sister, I gave a "convocation" > talk at Snow College in Utah. The subject of my talk, given to a > couple hundred undergraduates at this 2-year college, was "The X-ray > Universe;" it was a general overview of X-ray astronomy, from the Sun > and the solar system, to stars and supernovae in our galaxy, to > external galaxies and galaxy clusters. Having spent a considerable > amount of time putting this talk together, I was thinking that I > should try to give it a few more times, possibly in the Bay Area. > Although the talk is rather general and does concentrate on the X-ray > images, it is not intended nor appropriate for a young audience - I > initially pitched it at the junior college level, and would not like > to simplify it further - I would think that an engaged high school > student with an interest in science would get something out of the > talk, but beyond that the "impedance mismatch" would be too great. If > you think that this might be something your (or one of the other Bay > Area astronomical societies) might be interested in, please drop me a > line. > > Sincerely, > Chris Mauche > > PS: Please be advised that I gave a talk to the SJAA back in 2002. > > ----------------------------- > > Christopher Mauche > LLNL, L-473, 7000 East Avenue > Livermore, CA 94550-9234 > phone: (925) 422-7017 > http://www-phys.llnl.gov/Staff/MaucheChris/ > http://www-phys.llnl.gov/Research/CataclysmicVariables/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 15:58:43 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 15:58:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <011501c7967a$d1944480$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome><4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> <011501c7967a$d1944480$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <011701c7967b$6c7095d0$0400a8c0@robathome> Excuse me This is 1/4 of MoJo's benchmark. Basically small low bandwidth sites don't cost them much. With either of these sites we would want to take a local backup at least monthly - just in case. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon May 14 16:35:36 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon May 14 16:33:33 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> Message-ID: <4648F248.9060106@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Rob Hawley wrote: > >> The $120 figure he cites is my best case. > > > Might want to take a glance at: > http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/website-hosting.shtml?host_shared-hosting > > The pricing is essentially incredible, but various postings on the web > indicate they're for real, and the best-case scenario for using them is > a light-traffic website like sjaa.net -- seems like a good fit. > > Note the unlimited mailing lists at no charge. I noticed that. Interesting. Seems like a much better choice. The question now is how reliable is it. Presumably it would be similar, don't you think? Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 17:02:48 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 17:03:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <4648F248.9060106@aenet.net> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome><4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> <4648F248.9060106@aenet.net> Message-ID: <011901c79684$60336960$0400a8c0@robathome> I twice put together and twice deleted a message containing relative reviews. The problem with the review sites is that most contain under 25 reviews. Many reviews state these people are the devil incarnate. Others years of flawless operation. Are they both reviewing the same site? >From a business perspective, the corporate address has a number of other businesses at the same suite address. That would imply a mail drop, lawyer's office, or investing company. Ultimately, only experience is going to give us the answer. Once we are set up they supply tools that allow us to do the sys admin work we relied on MoJo for. I would want to clarify a couple of points, but so far my research has not shown any surprises like the mail list costs. I am probably going to switch my own account to lunarpages, but now believe it is not a good choice for SJAA due to the number of mail lists we use. Rob Hawley From north at znet.com Mon May 14 17:17:27 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Mon May 14 17:17:33 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <011701c7967b$6c7095d0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome><4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com> <011501c7967a$d1944480$0400a8c0@robathome> <011701c7967b$6c7095d0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <9c1bfbaf5f9117410c870f4dc2817ccc@znet.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > This is 1/4 of MoJo's benchmark. Maybe. One question is whether or not sjaa.net wants to serve from a static IP. That's another $30 per year. Otherwise, I assume they're handling dns completely and subdomaining from their web-facing IP number(s). I don't know whether this might cause a bandwidth choke at times, or whether it is necessary for SJAA to have a fixed IP. But it's something to headscratch about before diving in. Dave From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 17:44:49 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 17:45:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] FW: Morris on maintaining the SJAA site on Monrovia In-Reply-To: <9c1bfbaf5f9117410c870f4dc2817ccc@znet.com> References: <00fc01c7964e$e66babe0$0400a8c0@robathome><4ca8d0b7bf9664041d24aa4333dc6553@znet.com><011501c7967a$d1944480$0400a8c0@robathome><011701c7967b$6c7095d0$0400a8c0@robathome> <9c1bfbaf5f9117410c870f4dc2817ccc@znet.com> Message-ID: <011d01c7968a$3e8ba1a0$0400a8c0@robathome> I can't think of a reason to have a static IP off hand. If you take a look at the picture on the first page of their website. http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/graphics/header_shared.jpg Each of the layers you see in the rack is a blade server. When an HTML request comes in it is assigned to a blade server to execute. There is a small delay in that operation, but little more than routing. http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/web.shtml?whb_hosting-technology All this is very standard technology. From the picture it looks like everything is replicated. Rob Hawley From pkohlmil at best.com Mon May 14 22:37:56 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Mon May 14 22:38:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Alternative O.S.? Message-ID: <00dc01c796b3$3117e370$9347aa50$@com> Be gentle now - I'm an AARP member and almost qualify for senior citizen discounts. I know I'm in the land of Linux fans and folks who think sed, awk and grep are lovely names for software. But a Windows-based ISP would have one advantage. As the SJAA membership ages, the number of people who can use both Windows and Unix is likely to shrink. At this time, doing the Ephemeris requires a somewhat unusual skill set. Also, Windows gives one access to SQL Server and Share Point and some other technologies that would probably cost us too much now but might be useful someday. I await the deluge of responses telling me I'm a deranged Micro-serf. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070514/7763367a/attachment.html From north at znet.com Mon May 14 23:12:37 2007 From: north at znet.com (Dave North) Date: Mon May 14 23:12:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Alternative O.S.? In-Reply-To: <00dc01c796b3$3117e370$9347aa50$@com> References: <00dc01c796b3$3117e370$9347aa50$@com> Message-ID: Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > But a Windows-based ISP would have one advantage. You're right, of course, about that advantage. It would be interesting to find a low-cost provider who is running some variant of Windows Server software; I don't know of any. Just the licensing cost for each of the servers makes the competition tough. (Weirdly, _all_ the companies I do business with use some form of unix except amazon.com. Go figure). Another curiosity is that as time goes by, I see more and more people familiar with unix tools and server setup, not fewer. And many of them (like me) have gray hair. So I'm not sure that the point is quite so important as it might seem. Maybe it's because Google is a linux shop. My own experiences with Windows Server 2K are fairly amazing, particularly as regards security and data integrity. But that's a different issue. Dave From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 14 23:24:53 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 14 23:25:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Alternative O.S.? In-Reply-To: <00dc01c796b3$3117e370$9347aa50$@com> References: <00dc01c796b3$3117e370$9347aa50$@com> Message-ID: <013701c796b9$c0102c30$0400a8c0@robathome> I am a PC person that has done a lot of development using UNIX so I will not give you grief on just religion. Most of the ISPs are Linux or UNIX based because the web infrastructure works the best in that environment. Both of the ISPs we are looking at wrap the basic Linux system so most customers will not have to deal with it. We will have to set up the account specially to give me SSH access to do the CGI development. For all of the rest of the maintenance you will never see a bash> prompt. I am not sure what special support you need for the Ephemeris, but we could discuss it off line. Rob Hawley From pkohlmil at best.com Tue May 15 00:02:13 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Tue May 15 00:02:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofreading Message-ID: <000601c796be$f96077b0$0300a8c0@PKHPXPP> The June Ephemeris is ready for proofing. You can find it at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0706/EphJun07.pdf Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070515/7f4c139e/attachment.html From jvn at svpal.org Tue May 15 01:39:14 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Tue May 15 01:40:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofreading References: <000601c796be$f96077b0$0300a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <464971B2.7860@svpal.org> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > The June Ephemeris is ready for proofing. You can find it at: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0706/EphJun07.pdf Data for the dark-sky weekends on June 7 and 14 are mixed together. The correct data is: 7 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Short Sset 8:31 pm, 44% moon rise 12:48 am. 14 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Sset 8:28 pm, 1% moon sets 9:07 pm. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 15 13:22:53 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue May 15 13:23:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofreading In-Reply-To: <464971B2.7860@svpal.org> References: <000601c796be$f96077b0$0300a8c0@PKHPXPP> <464971B2.7860@svpal.org> Message-ID: <017301c7972e$d1c336f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Do you mean July 7 and 14? Rob Hawley >Data for the dark-sky weekends on June 7 and 14 are mixed together. The >correct data is: > > 7 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Short Sset 8:31 pm, 44% moon rise 12:48 am. > 14 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Sset 8:28 pm, 1% moon sets 9:07 pm. > > >Clear Skies! >-- >Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association >JVN's web site > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From jvn at svpal.org Tue May 15 15:09:34 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Tue May 15 15:10:55 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofreading References: <000601c796be$f96077b0$0300a8c0@PKHPXPP> <464971B2.7860@svpal.org> <017301c7972e$d1c336f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <464A2F9E.B85@svpal.org> Rob Hawley wrote: > > Do you mean July 7 and 14? I sure do! Oh, how I HATE it when I do that! (Keep an eye on the old guy; he's getting spotty.) > >Data for the dark-sky weekends on JULY 7 and 14 are mixed together. > >The correct data is: > > > > 7 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Short Sset 8:31 pm, 44% moon rise 12:48 am. > > 14 -Sa- Dark-Sky weekend. Sset 8:28 pm, 1% moon sets 9:07 pm. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From Nelsonastro at aol.com Wed May 16 09:25:46 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Wed May 16 09:26:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June Ephemeris Proofreading - Adobe software? Message-ID: Last year I noticed that Adobe had a :free software for non-profits" grant program. Do we need any updates to our software suites that might make use of this? I would be willing to track this down and write up the applications. Let me know. Steven Nelson ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070516/f3a3a3be/attachment.html From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu May 17 13:35:44 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Thu May 17 13:36:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Labeling Tonight Message-ID: <20070517143230.L5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> The folding dude came in yesterday at Accuprint so the Ephemeris is ready to be labeled. I have them in my car. How about we get together at 8:30 over at Houge Park tonight to apply the labels? (5/17) Thanks. Mike From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Thu May 17 13:40:43 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Thu May 17 13:40:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Business Cards Message-ID: <20070517143548.F5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> While I was over at Accuprint, I asked for a quote to make another set of business cards. The cost will be $36 for 1000 cards plus a $20 set up fee. The advantage of going to Accuprint is I can pick them up with the Ephemeris. With the cost of gas, less trips is better! Gary, this is a recurring cost, so I think it is your call and does not need board aproval. Mike From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 17 13:41:30 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 17 13:41:41 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Labeling Tonight References: <20070517143230.L5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <001301c798c3$c0b9df80$75f61345@180edt> Sorry, can't make it. PAS school star party. Rich > The folding dude came in yesterday at Accuprint so the Ephemeris is ready > to be labeled. I have them in my car. > How about we get together at 8:30 over at Houge Park tonight to apply the > labels? (5/17) > > Thanks. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From jvn at svpal.org Thu May 17 14:53:52 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Thu May 17 15:02:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Labeling Tonight References: <20070517143230.L5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <464CCEF0.4389@svpal.org> Michael Koop wrote: > How about we get together at 8:30 over at Houge Park tonight > to apply the labels? (5/17) I'll be there. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From leebizz at aol.com Thu May 17 15:28:17 2007 From: leebizz at aol.com (leebizz@aol.com) Date: Thu May 17 15:28:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Labeling Tonight In-Reply-To: <001301c798c3$c0b9df80$75f61345@180edt> References: <20070517143230.L5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> <001301c798c3$c0b9df80$75f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <8C966E9CD38A12F-1A94-2496@FWM-R10.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, I will be at a birthday party tonight. I'll ty to make it to Houge park. I may be late. Lee -----Original Message----- From: rnapo@znet.com To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Ephemeris Labeling Tonight Sorry, can't make it. PAS school star party. Rich > The folding dude came in yesterday at Accuprint so the Ephemeris is ready > to be labeled. I have them in my car. > How about we get together at 8:30 over at Houge Park tonight to apply the > labels? (5/17) > > Thanks. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://www.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070517/57a5fd89/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 17 16:43:11 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 17 16:43:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Small change in mail list management Message-ID: <023101c798dd$21c37340$0400a8c0@robathome> Morris moved the mail lists into a new subdomain Mail.sjaa.net This will remove the requirement that the mail list and the web site has to be hosted at the same place. The posting address (e.g. sjaaboard AT sjaa DOT net ) is a forwarder which can be configured any way we need it to. If you go through the links from the sjaa main page you will not notice a difference. Receiving this email proves there is no difference in the posting address. I have looked at 9 different hosting companies. I will present the results at the next board meeting. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 17 19:22:59 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 17 19:23:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Small change in mail list management Message-ID: What about just posting your top three choices (and why). That would probably give the other experts a chance to study (and comment if they need). I think the rest of us could just go along with the top group (if you can group it). With a decision like this - you may be able to get a consensus before the meeting - and it might just become a "consensus item." (certainly if it is the cheapest!) Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070517/bab2f679/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 17 23:48:37 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 17 23:48:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] ISP Choices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <026201c79918$904e1690$0400a8c0@robathome> Requirements High Availability Less than $120 per year CGI SSH Linux Services (e.g. Perl + Mailman) Lots of mail lists WFF = Warm Fuzzy Feeling Eliminating the choices that did not make the cut ISP Advantages Disadvantages Monrovia Low Cost, Member maintained Low bandwidth No Uptime Guarantee BlueHost Cpanel like UI Mailman with no limits none WFF 300G Storage Webhostingbuzz CPanel No WFF SSH special order Lunarpages (the subject of last Friday's meeting) did not make the cut. When I looked closer at them the issue with the $3.00/mo/maillist became a fatal problem. I needed to create a new list today and know of at least one other that is needed soon. BlueHost is my favorite now. I would be willing to move my own web site to them. There was nothing specifically wrong with webhostingbuzz for the club, but a business check of who they were did not give me a WFF. Also see http://web-hosting-review.toptenreviews.com/ webhostingbuzz was not listed. BlueHost was rated 5th. Lunarpages 2nd. All of the other top five had at least one fatal problem. Webhostingbuzz $36 /year for one year $54 for two years BlueHost 12 Month account is $95.40 - $7.95 a Month x 12, Domain included (no setup fee) 24 Month account is $166.80 - $6.95 a Month x 24, Domain included (no setup fee) Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri May 18 02:09:37 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri May 18 02:07:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA Business Cards In-Reply-To: <20070517143548.F5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070517143548.F5913@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <464D6D51.8000902@aenet.net> Michael Koop wrote: > While I was over at Accuprint, I asked for a quote to make another set > of business cards. The cost will be $36 for 1000 cards plus a $20 set up > fee. > The advantage of going to Accuprint is I can pick them up with the > Ephemeris. With the cost of gas, less trips is better! > Gary, this is a recurring cost, so I think it is your call and does not > need board aproval. I don't even think it's my call, just whenever we need more. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 23 15:55:56 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Wed May 23 15:56:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Draft agenda for Saturday board meeting Message-ID: <001a01c79d8d$87024150$0400a8c0@robathome> The next meeting of the SJAA board is Saturday at 6 PM. Here is the proposed agenda http://www.sjaa.net/agenda-07-05-26.pdf If anyone has additional items please let me know before 8 AM Saturday. After that point we will have to pencil them in at the meeting. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 23 16:56:45 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Wed May 23 16:56:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers' site photos and model need new home Message-ID: <002101c79d96$05a800a0$0400a8c0@robathome> I would like to get the model I made of the Ayers' site and the panoramic views out of my garage. Is anyone interested in them? Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Wed May 23 17:03:59 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Wed May 23 17:05:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Absence Message-ID: <4654D66F.22F3@svpal.org> Hi, All, I'll be leaving Friday May 25 for Wisconsin, to visit family and friends. Return on June 22. How do I find where else Dr.Cuzzi will be doing his Rings of Saturn talk? Maybe someone could ask him? Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Wed May 23 17:49:28 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Wed May 23 17:46:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. Message-ID: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> I just reviewed the minutes of April's SJAA Board of Directors meeting, to see what was decided, if anything, about the loaner scope program. Here is what I found: > In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the loaner program Looking at the agenda for Saturday's Board meeting, I see the loaner program is there. I also see the topic of a new scope for the loaner program (the offer by Albert Highe) is on the agenda, following the topic of the loaner program. I feel the topic of a new scope is premature, which I mentioned to both Albert and Rob Hawley at Michelle Stone's property last weekend. I'm undecided whether I'll attend the board meeting, so I'd like to ask the board some questions now instead: 1) How many board members feel the loaner scope program, as it is, is active and successful? Raise your hand if you think so. If I was on the board I'd be keeping my hand down. 2) How many feel the board will come up with a plan, during some portion of this Saturday's board meeting, that will revitalize loaner scope program? That presumes of course a majority of the board kept their hands down in response to the prior question. Personally, I don't think the board will have an epiphany during Saturday's meeting that results in a successful program. Even if it does, ideas are one thing, proving them is something else! Anyone who thinks the board can arrive at a plan for a sure-fire successful program, raise your hand. 3) Last question. If the loaner scope program is.... let's call it "dormant".... at present, how many think buying a new telescope will revitalize the program? :-) I certainly don't think so! I feel there is a rush to do a deal, and I don't understand why. My preference is that the board table any major purchases or deals for the loaner scope program until such time as there is an actual demand for loaner scopes. First the board should identify what is wrong with the program, how to remedy it, test the remedy, then if new or upgraded equipment is the answer the board should look at *all* options for making the scopes it offers match the needs of its target users. The target users is one of the items, I believe, to be defined at the board meeting, or perhaps over several board meetings.... Thanks, Mark From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 23 21:18:21 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Wed May 23 21:18:32 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <853180.8298.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I don't think anyone replied... are these meeting minutes good to go? ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Scull To: sjaa Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:43:59 PM Subject: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Here are the meeting minutes... thanks to Rob and Gary for submitting edits on a pre-release first draft, in addition to giving me a sanity check on the formatting/linespacing... /Craig ====================================================== April 28, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ====================================================== Rob made a motion to approve the February and April meeting minutes and the February general meeting minutes as amended. The motion was seconded by Mike and approved by normal vote, and it was unanimous. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Members present ------------------------------------- *-Mike Koop *-Rob Hawley *-Rich Neuschaefer *-Lee Hoglan *-Craig Scull *-Gary Mitchell *-Steve Nelson (not present but excused) *-Dave Smith (not present, not excused) *-Gordon Reade (not present, not excused) ------------------------------------- Coverage for upcoming events ------------------------------------- 5 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm (Gary Mike) 11 -Fr- Astronomy Class at Houge Park. 7:30 pm (Rob) 11 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Sset 8:06 pm, 27% moon rises 3:23 am. Star party hours: 9:00 to midnight. (Rob/Rich) 17 -Th- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm (Gary Mike) 25 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Sset 8:17 pm, 72% moon sets 2:52 am. Star party hours: 9:00 to midnight. (Rob/Rich) 26 -Sa- General Meeting. Dr. Jeffrey Cuzzi of NASA/Ames will tell us of the rings of Saturn. (Rob) ------------------------------------- Auction Recap ------------------------------------- $8444.99 total sales $2928.00 donations Exceedingly good year. Some lessons learned. No major problems. Huge donation from Orion. Large donation from Scope City. Estate sale contributed to the success of the event. There was a large scope donation. Big problem was that we didn't have enough bidders. Cave telescope went for $125. Club scope went for $50. These scopes were sold shortly after the event for profit by the auction buyers. ------------------------------------- Treasurer's report - Gary Mitchell ------------------------------------- Treasury Report Accounts CD 1 5,251.66 CD 2 5,167.51 CD 3 5,000.00 CD 4 5,000,00 Checking 3,000.49 Observatory Fund 3,100.51 PayPal 365.20 Savings 343.49 Petty Cash 37.27 ----------- TOTAL Accounts 27,266.13 The general fund now has the fourth of four certificates of deposit, each with a one year term and arranged so they'll expire at three month intervals. So, if we need more money for something than is in the checking account, we'll have to wait no more than three months before one of them expires, (to avoid early withdrawal penalties). Any large purchase we are likely to make will probably be debated for a while, so I don't think we'll have any problems. ------------------------------------- Insurance update - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Club was told they could not hold a star party at Simonds school unless the school was listed on our insurance policy. This school was explicitly added to our policy for an additional $25. We also added to the policy that we are holding school star parties. This event was an exception. The insurance company said we do not need to list our individual events unless the venue specifically requires a certificate naming them Additional Insured. We previously have been asked to show our insurance policy to a school, but this was considered "normal" procedure. If additional school ask to be added to our policy, then we will think about this situation some more and how it can be handled better. ------------------------------------- Messier marathon - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Rob turned in $80 to the club for proceeds from the sales of his Messier marathon book. ------------------------------------- Privacy policy - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Mike and Rob have previously been contacted by varying parties asking for contact information for SJAA members. Our policy has been to refuse to share contact information with outsiders citing a non-existing privacy policy. It was important to put the policy in writing. The privacy policy has occasionally been challenged, such as when a board member wanted to get the contact information for the former Calstar attendees. Rob makes a motion to approve the new Privacy Policy which reads as follows: "SJAA respects the privacy of its members. SJAA (including its officers, board, and people acting on behalf of the club) will only use personal information for club business. It will not be disclosed to any outside party unless required by law. Any use of personal information requires approval by the board. The motion was seconded by Rich and approved by normal vote, and it was unanimous. There were no abstentions or oppositions, aside from Steve Nelson's proxy vote of no against the original policy because he considered it against state law. ------------------------------------- Membership report - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- ******Monthly Expirations****** Last SJAA Meeting 3/3/2007 Report Date 4/17/2007 expired 76 Mar-07 9 Apr-07 7 May-07 18 Jun-07 42 Jul-07 19 Aug-07 27 Sep-07 19 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 19 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 17 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 11 May-08 6 more than 13 months 22 complementary 33 expiring 9 paid(current) 278 email delivery 35 Labels Generated 286 S&T Members 161 New Members since last report 4 current + complementary 311 ******Retained Members****** Starting this month I will use a different metric to measure our member retention. I will be reporting the years in which current members joined compared to the number of new members at the end of that year. We started collecting data on when members joined starting in 2002. paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 12 2006 58 51 2005 64 32 2004 68** 24 2003 61** 29 2002 26** 17 < 2002 148** 113 ** based on 12/04 total 278 ------------------------------------- Calstar - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- At the present time no one is running Calstar. Rob has contacted a group of people and will be leading a team this year to run Calstar on behalf of the SJAA. Rob has asked for someone to help him with the Calstar web site design. Mark Wagner volunteered to find someone who will do the site design. Rob has consulted with a number of people and come up with a plan this year to make the event run smoothly. Gary made a motion to approve the following plan: The board delegates the planning and operation of Calstar to Rob Hawley. He has full authority for Calstar including selection or exclusion of staff to work with him. The board holds him fully responsible for the results. The board will review and approve any contracts or payments. The motion was seconded by Rob. The motion was approved by normal vote, and it was unanimous. The board felt a proxy vote by Steve on CalStar was not applicable since it did not apply to the specific proposal that was discussed. Additional points discussed: -Roads within the Calstar event area will be closed from 8pm until twilight. -100% registration -Green lasers will be banned -publicity will be handled by posting to SJAA, TAC, and AANC email lists -CCAS was separately advertising Calstar. We will ask them to refer people to our website so everyone receives the same information, especially since we have changed how the event is being operated. -We may relocate the dark area. -School groups may attend as long as they follow the rules and people register individually ------------------------------------- Loaner Scope Program ------------------------------------- Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport via plane. A number of members were not comfortable that the average loanee could do this without damage. In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the loaner program as well as the above offer. ------------------------------------- Sky and Telescope changes ------------------------------------- Sky and Telescope has proposed that club members renew directly with them and have the SJAA tell them who its members are. Gary will follow up with Sky and Telescope because their proposal is not workable for the SJAA. ------------------------------------- Willow Springs Star Party at Bob Ayers property ------------------------------------- A discussion ensued to suggest that Bob should lead his own star parties this year and that the SJAA would help him with this as requested. This plan would replace the prior plan where the SJAA would have lead all aspects of the summer star parties. ------------------------------------- Chew's Ridge ------------------------------------- Lee is moving his 30" from a location at Chew's Ridge and suggests that his roll off roof observatory and the SJAA could operate it instead. It is not known yet whether or not the native americans who gave Lee permission to build his observatory would also welcome the SJAA, but Lee feels it is likely should the SJAA be interested. The SJAA expressed interest in visiting this site to explore the idea further. There may be up to an acre of usable land. The southern sky is blocked by Chew's ridge up to 15-20 degrees, and there may be some dust in the air, but it is expected that the seeing would be spectacular. ------------------------------------- Los Gatos Vasona County Park ------------------------------------- This location may be suitable for 3rd quarter moon star parties. There is a possibility that it may be prone to wetness because it is in a depression. Mark Wagner will follow up with Denny Wooligan about this opportunity. ------------------------------------- School star parties - Jim Van Nuland ------------------------------------- I've changed the format of the report, to show a breakdown of events that were less than successful. The numbers assume that Friday Apr.27 will have been clear. The Yosemite star parties are not included. Houge Park public events are included only if specific pre-arrangements have been made. There is just one, in May, to support a YMCA group of up to 50 people. Cumulative list of school events for 2006-7 school year Total Good Part. Cloudy Cancel sched sky succ. fail at noon Aug 1 1 - - - Sep 1 1 - - - Oct 7 6 - 1 - Nov 12 5 - 2 5 Dec 6 1 - - 5 Jan 8 6 2 - - Feb 7 1 3 2 1 Mar 14 9 4 1 - Apr 6 5 - 1 - Coming attractions, including part of 2008 Total Firm Makeup Negotiating May 5 2 - 3 also: Andy Hill High has not yet asked. ... Aug 3 3 - - Nov 1 1 - - Feb 1 1 - - 2008. "Makeup" are firm dates. They will be dropped from this list if the primary event is successful. If primary fails, the makeup event will be moved from 3rd to 2nd column, and the name of the school will be added on the Current Events page. The meeting was adjourned at 7:54pm From rnapo at znet.com Wed May 23 21:50:34 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Wed May 23 21:50:47 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes References: <853180.8298.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801c79dbf$1153fde0$f0f71345@180edt> Thanks Craig. That's the way I remember the meeting. Rich >I don't think anyone replied... are these meeting minutes good to go? > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Craig Scull > To: sjaa > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:43:59 PM > Subject: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes > > > Here are the meeting minutes... thanks to Rob and Gary for submitting > edits on a pre-release first draft, in addition to giving me a sanity check > on the formatting/linespacing... > > /Craig > > > ====================================================== > April 28, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes > - Craig Scull > ====================================================== > > Rob made a motion to approve the February and April > meeting minutes and the February general meeting > minutes as amended. The motion was seconded by Mike and > approved by normal vote, and it was unanimous. > There were no abstentions or oppositions. > > > ------------------------------------- > Members present > ------------------------------------- > *-Mike Koop > *-Rob Hawley > *-Rich Neuschaefer > *-Lee Hoglan > *-Craig Scull > *-Gary Mitchell > *-Steve Nelson (not present but excused) > *-Dave Smith (not present, not excused) > *-Gordon Reade (not present, not excused) > > > ------------------------------------- > Coverage for upcoming events > ------------------------------------- > 5 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm > (Gary Mike) > > 11 -Fr- Astronomy Class at Houge Park. 7:30 pm > (Rob) > > 11 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Sset 8:06 pm, 27% moon > rises 3:23 am. Star party hours: 9:00 to midnight. > (Rob/Rich) > > 17 -Th- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm > (Gary Mike) > > 25 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Sset 8:17 pm, 72% moon > sets 2:52 am. Star party hours: 9:00 to midnight. > (Rob/Rich) > > 26 -Sa- General Meeting. Dr. Jeffrey Cuzzi of > NASA/Ames will tell us of the rings of Saturn. > (Rob) > > > ------------------------------------- > Auction Recap > ------------------------------------- > $8444.99 total sales $2928.00 donations > > Exceedingly good year. Some lessons learned. No major > problems. > > Huge donation from Orion. Large donation from Scope > City. Estate sale contributed to the success of the > event. There was a large scope donation. > > Big problem was that we didn't have enough bidders. > Cave telescope went for $125. Club scope went for $50. > These scopes were sold shortly after the event for > profit by the auction buyers. > > > ------------------------------------- > Treasurer's report - Gary Mitchell > ------------------------------------- > Treasury Report > > Accounts > CD 1 5,251.66 > CD 2 5,167.51 > CD 3 5,000.00 > CD 4 5,000,00 > Checking 3,000.49 > Observatory Fund 3,100.51 > PayPal 365.20 > Savings 343.49 > Petty Cash 37.27 > ----------- > TOTAL Accounts 27,266.13 > > > The general fund now has the fourth of four > certificates of deposit, each with a one year term > and arranged so they'll expire at three month > intervals. So, if we need more money for something > than is in the checking account, we'll have to > wait no more than three months before one of them > expires, (to avoid early withdrawal penalties). > Any large purchase we are likely to make will > probably be debated for a while, so I don't think > we'll have any problems. > > > ------------------------------------- > Insurance update - Rob Hawley > ------------------------------------- > Club was told they could not hold a star party at > Simonds school unless the school was listed on our > insurance policy. This school was explicitly added to > our policy for an additional $25. We also added to the > policy that we are holding school star parties. > > This event was an exception. The insurance company > said we do not need to list our individual events > unless the venue specifically requires a certificate > naming them Additional Insured. > > We previously have been asked to show our insurance > policy to a school, but this was considered "normal" > procedure. If additional school ask to be added to our > policy, then we will think about this situation some > more and how it can be handled better. > > > ------------------------------------- > Messier marathon - Rob Hawley > ------------------------------------- > Rob turned in $80 to the club for proceeds from the > sales of his Messier marathon book. > > > ------------------------------------- > Privacy policy - Rob Hawley > ------------------------------------- > Mike and Rob have previously been contacted by > varying parties asking for contact information for > SJAA members. Our policy has been to refuse to share > contact information with outsiders citing a > non-existing privacy policy. It was important to put > the policy in writing. > > The privacy policy has occasionally been challenged, > such as when a board member wanted to get the contact > information for the former Calstar attendees. > > Rob makes a motion to approve the new Privacy Policy > which reads as follows: > "SJAA respects the privacy of its members. SJAA > (including its officers, board, and people acting on > behalf of the club) will only use personal information > for club business. It will not be disclosed to any > outside party unless required by law. Any use of > personal information requires approval by the board. > > The motion was seconded by Rich and approved > by normal vote, and it was unanimous. There were no > abstentions or oppositions, aside from Steve Nelson's > proxy vote of no against the original policy because > he considered it against state law. > > > ------------------------------------- > Membership report - Rob Hawley > ------------------------------------- > > ******Monthly Expirations****** > > Last SJAA Meeting 3/3/2007 > Report Date 4/17/2007 > > expired 76 > > Mar-07 9 > > Apr-07 7 > May-07 18 > Jun-07 42 > Jul-07 19 > Aug-07 27 > Sep-07 19 > Oct-07 18 > Nov-07 19 > Dec-07 16 > Jan-08 17 > Feb-08 17 > Mar-08 20 > Apr-08 11 > May-08 6 > more than 13 months 22 > complementary 33 > > expiring 9 > paid(current) 278 > > email delivery 35 > Labels Generated 286 > > S&T Members 161 > New Members since last report 4 > current + complementary 311 > > > ******Retained Members****** > Starting this month I will use a different metric to > measure our member retention. I will be reporting > the years in which current members joined > compared to the number of new members at the end of > that year. We started collecting data on when > members joined starting in 2002. > > paid only > Members at end of year Members retained > 2007 12 > 2006 58 51 > 2005 64 32 > 2004 68** 24 > 2003 61** 29 > 2002 26** 17 > < 2002 148** 113 > > ** based on 12/04 > > total 278 > > > ------------------------------------- > Calstar - Rob Hawley > ------------------------------------- > At the present time no one is running Calstar. Rob > has contacted a group of people and will be leading a > team this year to run Calstar on behalf of the SJAA. > Rob has asked for someone to help him with the Calstar > web site design. Mark Wagner volunteered to find > someone who will do the site design. > > Rob has consulted with a number of people and come up > with a plan this year to make the event run smoothly. > > Gary made a motion to approve the following plan: > The board delegates the planning and operation of > Calstar to Rob Hawley. He has full authority for > Calstar including selection or exclusion of staff to > work with him. The board holds him fully responsible > for the results. The board will review and approve any > contracts or payments. > > The motion was seconded by Rob. The motion was approved > by normal vote, and it was unanimous. The board felt > a proxy vote by Steve on CalStar was not applicable > since it did not apply to the specific proposal that > was discussed. > > > Additional points discussed: > -Roads within the Calstar event area will be closed > from 8pm until twilight. > -100% registration > -Green lasers will be banned > -publicity will be handled by posting to SJAA, TAC, > and AANC email lists > -CCAS was separately advertising Calstar. We will > ask them to refer people to our website so everyone >receives the same information, especially since we > have changed how the event is being operated. > -We may relocate the dark area. > -School groups may attend as long as they follow the > rules and people register individually > > > ------------------------------------- > Loaner Scope Program > ------------------------------------- > Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes > to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of > them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport > via plane. A number of members were not comfortable > that the average loanee could do this without damage. > > In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the > loaner program as well as the above offer. > > > ------------------------------------- > Sky and Telescope changes > ------------------------------------- > Sky and Telescope has proposed that club members > renew directly with them and have the SJAA tell > them who its members are. Gary will follow up with > Sky and Telescope because their proposal is not > workable for the SJAA. > > > ------------------------------------- > Willow Springs Star Party at Bob Ayers property > ------------------------------------- > A discussion ensued to suggest that Bob should lead > his own star parties this year and that the SJAA would > help him with this as requested. This plan would > replace the prior plan where the SJAA would have > lead all aspects of the summer star parties. > > > ------------------------------------- > Chew's Ridge > ------------------------------------- > Lee is moving his 30" from a location at Chew's Ridge > and suggests that his roll off roof observatory and > the SJAA could operate it instead. > > It is not known yet whether or not the native > americans who gave Lee permission to build his > observatory would also welcome the SJAA, but Lee > feels it is likely should the SJAA be interested. > > The SJAA expressed interest in visiting this > site to explore the idea further. There may be up to > an acre of usable land. The southern sky is blocked > by Chew's ridge up to 15-20 degrees, and there may be > some dust in the air, but it is expected that the > seeing would be spectacular. > > > ------------------------------------- > Los Gatos Vasona County Park > ------------------------------------- > This location may be suitable for 3rd quarter moon > star parties. There is a possibility that it may be > prone to wetness because it is in a depression. Mark > Wagner will follow up with Denny Wooligan about this > opportunity. > > > ------------------------------------- > School star parties - Jim Van Nuland > ------------------------------------- > I've changed the format of the report, to show a > breakdown of events that were less than successful. > The numbers assume that Friday Apr.27 will have > been clear. The Yosemite star parties are > not included. Houge Park public events are included > only if specific pre-arrangements have been made. > There is just one, in May, to support a YMCA group of > up to 50 people. > > > Cumulative list of school events for 2006-7 school year > > Total Good Part. Cloudy Cancel > sched sky succ. fail at noon > Aug 1 1 - - - > Sep 1 1 - - - > Oct 7 6 - 1 - > Nov 12 5 - 2 5 > Dec 6 1 - - 5 > Jan 8 6 2 - - > Feb 7 1 3 2 1 > Mar 14 9 4 1 - > Apr 6 5 - 1 - > > > Coming attractions, including part of 2008 > > Total Firm Makeup Negotiating > May 5 2 - 3 also: Andy Hill High has > not yet asked. > ... > Aug 3 3 - - > Nov 1 1 - - > Feb 1 1 - - 2008. > > "Makeup" are firm dates. They will be dropped from > this list if the primary event is successful. > If primary fails, the makeup event will be moved > from 3rd to 2nd column, and the name of the school > will be added on the Current Events page. > > > > The meeting was adjourned at 7:54pm > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 24 03:03:36 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu May 24 03:02:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > 1) How many board members feel the loaner scope program, as it is, is > active and successful? Raise your hand if you think so. If I was on > the board I'd be keeping my hand down. Define "active and successful" The change-over may not be that great, but the goal is that we have scopes for loan to members and they're getting loaned out now and then. I'd call that successful... or successful enough. If you say we have more scopes than we need; OK, maybe, I won't argue against it. We may want to continue selling at our auction some that don't get borrowed, (say, two or three at a time). That reminds me... Mike: is the list in the Ephemeris accurate and complete? It looks like we have 35 scopes. > 2) How many feel the board will come up with a plan, during some portion > of this Saturday's board meeting, that will revitalize loaner scope > program? I'm not sure that's a big concern. If some astronomical event happens and we get a bunch of new members, I'm sure the loaner program will get busier. > 3) Last question. If the loaner scope program is.... let's call it > "dormant".... at present, how many think buying a new telescope will > revitalize the program? :-) I certainly don't think so! I'm not necessarily in favor of buying a new scope unless it's something we really need. It's on a case by case basis. For example, no matter how many ordinary scopes we have, if we don't have a solar scope (with a good H alpha filter), I could be talked into getting one. By the way, what's the status of the repair on the club's solar scope? Gary From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu May 24 08:05:09 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu May 24 08:02:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> Message-ID: <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: > Mark Wagner wrote: > >> 1) How many board members feel the loaner scope program, as it is, is >> active and successful? Raise your hand if you think so. If I was >> on the board I'd be keeping my hand down. > > Define "active and successful" I'm sure there will be differences in how various board members define that. But my impression listening to at least two of the very active board members over the past year (approx) has been that the program is essentially inactive. A program with more demand than availability might for some define "active and successful". But it is up to the board really to determine the goals of the program - what the program should be - I'm just giving some "member" input based on what I've heard, and my idea of "active and successful". > The change-over may not be that great, but the goal is that we have > scopes for loan to members and they're getting loaned out now and > then. I'd call that successful... or successful enough. By changing that slightly to read "but *if* the goal".... I'd agree. I think the topic being on agenda for discussion means there is some lack of clarity or desire for discussing the goals. > If you say we have more scopes than we need; OK, maybe, I won't argue > against it. I was astonished to see the number of 8" - 10" Dobs. That to me looks (on the surface) like a robust program - wow! > We may want to continue selling at our auction some that don't get > borrowed, (say, two or three at a time). Heh heh.... from what I hear, the list of ones that don't get borrowed comprises most or all of them! But it might be worth considering, after defining the goals of the program, selling some of what Rob referred to as scopes that are "long in the tooth"... to fund upgrading those that are serviceable but could use a bit of work, or to purchase new equipment. But to me, the question about the goals might best be addressed first. > 2) How many feel the board will come up with a plan, during some > portion of this Saturday's board meeting, that will revitalize loaner > scope program? > > I'm not sure that's a big concern. If some astronomical event happens > and we get a bunch of new members, I'm sure the loaner program will > get busier. Yes, if the board wants the purpose to be an inventory for when some event occur, and that's it. Sure. > For example, no matter how many ordinary scopes we have, if we don't > have a solar scope (with a good H alpha filter), I could be talked > into getting one. I agree, but there you're talking about a more specialized scope. What seemed to be the concern is the loaner scope program overall being inactive. One thing I can do to help "advertise" the loaner program is to put a footer in TAC e-mails. I'd replace the current What to observe? Check here: http://observers.org/reports/ with Check Out These Scopes - SJAA Loaners: http://koopm.best.vwh.net/sjaaloan.html I'll do that with the consent of either the board or at Rob's direction. Mark From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 08:32:32 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 08:32:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Please note that I placed the discussion of what to do about Albert's proposal after discussion of the mission statement for the loaner program. Mark and I talked about the loaner program this weekend. He and I respectfully disagree on a couple of points. I have a very personal connection to the program. Borrowing an 8" scope from the club is what convinced me I wanted to move to Dobs. I wish I had taken advantage of the program before purchasing the SCT. I went on to build my first travel scope after that experience. I later borrowed a 17" scope. That convinced me I could set up and operate a scope of that size. It was not useful in determining whether I could transport one. #39 is an extremely large and bulky scope. Had it not been for my collection with Plettstone, it would have scarred me off. It did convince me to go with a 15" instead of an 18". I do agree with Mark that the turnover has been disappointing. SJAA continues to get new members, but we have been less successful in convincing them to be active observers. Upgrading this scope, by itself, will not fix that. The club would welcome any advertising of the program (so yes Mark I am asking). Beyond that we need to more effectively get the word out to new members. The loaner program is part of an entire system of instruction the club offers. The monthly beginner's workshops teach the basics. The star parties offer demonstrations of various scopes plus on site instruction for a scope someone has borrowed. This is an incredible deal for the club. We get rid of one scope whose mirror was a tad better than a mirror blank. For the price of upgrading some of the accessories we get a scope that better meets the program goals I proposed. In future years I would like to see #39 and the other large scope updated. I might be willing to donate the upgrade myself. #39 will be cheaper since we upgraded the finder and focuser when I worked on the scope a couple of years ago. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu May 24 09:14:42 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu May 24 09:12:14 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> <004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > I have a very personal connection to the program. Borrowing an 8" scope > from the club is what convinced me I wanted to move to Dobs. Me too! The SJAA loaner program convinced me I like Dobs much more than SCTs. I've never looked back. I think it was the long blue 8" loaner Dob that was "instrumental" in my decision. > #39 is an extremely large and bulky scope. Had it not been for my collection with > Plettstone, it would have scarred me off. It did convince me to go with a > 15" instead of an 18". > I had also borrowed the big 14.5" blue "Freeman A1M1" Dob.... and it taught me that aperture was king, and that I would want one more portable. But it didn't dissuade me from getting a bigger scope! I went out to star parties, talked to owners of bigger scopes, asked about transporting them, watched them being set up and torn down - helped do so when owners permitted me to, and soon knew what would work for me. In fact, I think historically advice for newbies looking at potentially buying a scope and not knowing what they really want, what would work for them, has been to come out to Houge Park or other star parties, check out the scopes, look through them, talk to the owners. Sure worked for me! > The club would welcome any advertising of the program (so yes Mark I am asking). Done. > This is an incredible deal for the club. That's your opinion, shared I believe by Koop. I disagree, respectfully. If the club feels the need to have a new scope in that size range, it should look at all the options (including the one currently proposed) rather than just one. Mark From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 10:18:32 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 10:18:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> The club is at least committed to sell the bad mirror. We have two scopes in the 13" range. Neither scope has been circulating. One of them has an incredibly bad mirror. We should determine the quality of the remaining mirror. We should separate this into two questions; one for each scope. We should sell (or trade for work) the bad mirror. The tests on the mirror we are proposing to sell indicate it is so bad that it should not be in the program. We should test the second mirror. If it is equally bad we may not want to put more money into it. Testing does not commit us to reconfiguring it. That would give us the following alternatives: a) Take Albert's deal as is and don't test the mirror. b) Treat the two scopes as two transactions. Sell the first mirror. Test the second. If the 2nd is satisfactory then Albert bills us for his labor for working on the second and donates the parts. From a tax perspective, this is a better alternative anyway. c) Buy a new 12" Meade Lightbridge scope ($999) and sell the 2nd existing scope. We would probably get between $100 and $300 for it depending on how much effort we expended. The Lightbridge would not be built as solidly or have as high a quality components as the Albert refinished scope d) Only sell the bad mirror and don't modify the other scope. If we only decide to sell the bad mirror that is not fatal. I could rebuild the 2nd scope myself later. I will not guarantee that my work will be as good as Albert's, but I have gotten good reviews on my travel scope. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Thu May 24 11:25:23 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Thu May 24 11:22:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > The club is at least committed to sell the bad mirror. > Sorry Rob, I must have missed that decision. Is it in the minutes? ;-) > We have two scopes in the 13" range. But this again presupposes there is a *need* for a new scope.... > c) Buy a new 12" Meade Lightbridge scope ($999) and sell the 2nd > existing scope. We would probably get between $100 and $300 for it > depending on how much effort we expended. The Lightbridge would not be > built as solidly or have as high a quality components as the Albert > refinished scope > However, given your comments about the mirrors in the 13" scopes, the 12" Meade may very well be optically superior, which is important, all else being relatively equal. And, no 9 month wait for the Meade. And have a warranty. And be more representative of what a buyer might purchase as a first "larger" scope. And be easier to replace should there be a problem. And be roughly the same cost to the club. I guess if we're going to go down this path, a question could arise whether the loaner program need a Porsche or a Ford? I just don't think there is a need right now. Kind of like buying three gallons of milk because its a "good deal" .... when you already have two gallons in the fridge... and nobody's drinking it.... Mark From jvn at svpal.org Thu May 24 15:40:49 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Thu May 24 15:42:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Summary of school star party program Message-ID: <46561471.5FEA@svpal.org> Hi, All, Assuming that Thursday's event has a good sky, here are the running totals for the 2006-7 school year. It's unlikely that we'll have any more school requests. We have a few overnight events during the summer, included in the second part of the report. We have three schools scheduled for the next school year. Cumulative list of school events for 2006-7 school year Total Good Part. Cloudy Cancel sched sky succ. fail at noon Aug 1 1 - - - Sep 1 1 - - - Oct 7 6 - 1 - Nov 12 5 - 2 5 Dec 6 1 - - 5 Jan 8 6 2 - - Feb 7 1 3 2 1 Mar 14 9 4 1 - Apr 5 4 - 1 - May 6 6 - 0 - ----------------------------------- tot 67 40 9 7 11 Coming attractions, including part of 2008. Total Firm Makeup Negotiating ... Aug 3 3 - - Oct 1 1 - - Nov 1 1 - - Feb 1 1 - - 2008. "Makeup" are firm dates. They will be dropped from this list if the primary event is successful. If primary fails, the makeup event will be moved from 3rd to 2nd column, and the name of the school will be added on the Current Events page. -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 24 18:25:52 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 24 18:26:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage Message-ID: SJAA signage: star parties and other events (S. Nelson) [for May board action item - this is GENERAL, but might be with CALSTAR sign item] Summary: 12 long-lasting signs for SJAA events should be obtained for a very modest investment ($35). They would have many uses for many events. Based on the predilections of Rich and Gary, these various types of signs are ordered by increasing cost and have been selected for appropriateness to our limited storage and our mix of events. The mantra has been to ?reuse and recycle?. I'll bring some of the material - as at least one Board member asked. Permanent messages, like ?SJAA astronomy?, ?STAR PARTY?, ?Lights OUT!? could be used multiple times per year at multiple venues. ?DO NOT ENTER? could be another side. These should be sturdy, plentiful, and useful over many years. Once-a-year ? the messages might be large, but could be changeable font or paper overlay and water paint on a reusable substrate. ?AUCTION?, ?CALSTAR? , ?SIGNUP?, ?ROAD CLOSED? etc. I would recommend (*) spending about $35 for 12 corrugated plastic signs (24 ? x 18?). These would go on ?recycled? thick wire legs. Half would have permanent messages and half would be blank for overlay or changeable fonts. These should last 10 ? 20 years! We should also dig up several ?Real estate A-frames? to recycle ($0). I would also like to see, perhaps as a second phase (!), many weighted safety cones and one large club banner ($200 total). These should also last 10-20 years, but a harder sell to Gary and Rich! TABLE (mangled) Type name, use, Cost $, Cost in time Plastic corrugated w/ 2 wire legs, Changeable w/ paper overlay $0 RECYCLE from elections etc. (*)Plastic corrugated w/ 2 wire leg,s Blank w/ overlay or 4? paper font (6) for $13, 24?x18?, TAP, 1 hr. RECYCLED legs from elections signs etc. (*)Plastic corrugated w/ 2 wire legs PERMANENT ?SJAA astronomy? ?STAR PARTY? ?Lights OUT!? (6) for $22 24?x18?, TAP, 3 Hr. + stencil & paint, RECYCLED legs Plastic corrugated w/ 2 wire legs, PERMANENT silkscreen 2 sides $35+ 24?x18? , TAP, RECYCLED legs (*)Real Estate ?A? frame Changeable w/ Paper overlay, $0, 1 hr. RECYCLE from real estate offices Real Estate ?A? frame (blank) Changeable w/ overlay or 4? paper font $27 Pelican Signs, Santa Clara Banner(blank) Changeable w/ 4? paper font $14 , 3?x 6', TAP, 1 hr. + stencil & paint (!) Banner PERMANENT, ?SJAA astronomy? $90, 3?x6? TAP Pennant on 6? pole, Changeable w/ paper & paint $10 OSH (!) 18? traffic cone Orange, weighted (4) for $100 Stencil ?SJAA? Tape, plastic ?DO NOT CROSS? $26/ 300? Re-roll Tape, crepe paper orange etc. $2 / 100? One use Public events work better with signage. Our various star parties can use better graphics to inform the public. The investments can be modest to start ? and last decades. * The research for this was started from thinking about school star parties. I realized that this also can apply across the board (Houge Park, Coe, Coyote, LSA). A neighborhood sign that my family has used for 16 years, my neighborhood association?s signs, and election signs all pointed in a consistent direction for longevity, utility, and very low cost. These are flat and easy to store in any car trunk. They go in any ground quickly with a small hammer. They resist wind and moisture very well. San Jose Blue can easily make low cost paper overlays for special events (if you don?t want to use just paper and paint). ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070524/0f3801d0/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 19:29:52 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 19:30:05 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage References: Message-ID: <001e01c79e74$93b4e7d0$ddf61345@180edt> Steven, I don't think we need signs. I don't care if someone gave them to us. Rich Based on the predilections of Rich and Gary, these various types of signs are ordered by increasing cost and have been selected for appropriateness to our limited storage and our mix of events. The mantra has been to ?reuse and recycle?. I'll bring some of the material - as at least one Board member asked. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070524/e99fe3e9/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 19:43:47 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 19:43:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <003501c79e76$850f7220$0400a8c0@robathome> The first item on the agenda will be to discuss how our process of keeping minutes is not adequate. a) The leader (me) is letting the discussions get out of control. We spent most of the last discussion on a premise that a vote could have quickly resolved. We did not spend enough time on what we wanted to happen. b) People that need decisions are not putting them into a form that can be voted on. c) People are not reviewing the minutes to catch "sense of the board" discussions. The board needs to decide whether or not it wants to support the loaner program. The agenda lays out what I feel the goals of the program have been. If the majority of the board does not support those goals, then we need to have a different discussion on what to do with the inventory. Needless to say both Mike and I felt that we had enough consensus from the last meeting to proceed with detailed negotiations with Albert. Mike and I negotiated with Albert in good faith. I did not hear one objection to the sale of the first mirror. It is true that consensus was not adequately reflected in the minutes. That is Mike's and my fault. The discussion was dominated by Mike's proposal to convert the second scope into a travel scope. I did lay out a general proposal for the board. We may decide to just limit what we do to just selling the bad mirror. Given Albert's input on the first mirror it I would tend to agree that I would want to test the 2nd mirror before we started the remodel. However, and this is a big one, who has the time to manage the sale of the 2nd scope in such a way that we receive a fair price if that is route we choose to go? Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 19:46:14 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 19:46:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage In-Reply-To: <001e01c79e74$93b4e7d0$ddf61345@180edt> References: <001e01c79e74$93b4e7d0$ddf61345@180edt> Message-ID: <003601c79e76$dcebd100$0400a8c0@robathome> We need new signage for CalStar. The only question that I plan to resolve at the meeting is whether SJAA will pay a portion of the cost (which will lead me to donate the rest to SJAA) or I do it myself and retain the signs, etc as my property. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 20:02:47 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 20:02:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> <003501c79e76$850f7220$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <003001c79e79$2cb9bd30$ddf61345@180edt> Hi Rob, The problem was, the board thought you and Mike had completed negotiations with Albert, and that the deal was Albert would remake one of our old loaner scopes and in return he would get the second of our old loaner scopes. When you sent out that email about maybe spending $1k to $1.5k in addition to giving Albert the second loaner scope, I'm sure you knew that there was a problem. If you and Mike knew you had not completed negotiations before our last board meeting, then you had us voting in the dark. I'm not suggesting that anyone was trying to pull something but that we need to be more careful about not having surprises after the board thinks they have been given the facts. Rich -snip > Needless to say both Mike and I felt that we had enough consensus from the > last meeting to proceed with detailed negotiations with Albert. Mike and I > negotiated with Albert in good faith. -snip > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 20:17:37 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 20:17:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <003001c79e79$2cb9bd30$ddf61345@180edt> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com><003501c79e76$850f7220$0400a8c0@robathome> <003001c79e79$2cb9bd30$ddf61345@180edt> Message-ID: <003801c79e7b$3fc79940$0400a8c0@robathome> The email you cited was only sent to you. I tried to get feedback from Mike whether or not I had the facts correct and I was not able to. After talking with Albert it was clear I got the deal wrong. The agenda reflects the correct agreement. This is in line with what we discussed in the board meeting. We trade the first mirror for his rebuilding the second scope. We replace the accessory components listed in my message. It is about the same expense we did when I refurbished scope #39 a couple of years ago. What we tried to do at the last board meeting was to get a sense of what the board would accept. Despite the rather long diversion on the travel scope issue I though everyone agreed with the idea of the basic deal as outlined in the agenda. Albert has added one other wrinkle that he is willing to purchase the first mirror outright. We did not discuss that option with the board nor do I remember it coming up when the three of us discussed it. Given what we now know of the quality of the mirror, that is an option we must seriously consider. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 20:32:59 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 20:33:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <003a01c79e7d$65a91970$0400a8c0@robathome> In my mind the purchase of the Meade scope only makes sense only if we sell the first mirror to Albert and we can easily get a good price for the 2nd existing scope. Otherwise, we are out of pocket for the full price of the new scope. That would be a tough sell to me. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 20:41:59 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 20:42:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4655D893.9040000@resource-intl.com> <003a01c79e7d$65a91970$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <004801c79e7e$a686d2b0$ddf61345@180edt> We need to look at the loaner program before we jump into these scope deals. Why is buying a Meade and selling a mirror to Albert connected? BTW, I'm not convinced on buying a Meade. It sounds as if you are saying we must, no matter what, sell a mirror to Albert. There is the alternative of selling both of our old scopes on Ebay or some other place. Is there any reason to rush into any of this? Rich > In my mind the purchase of the Meade scope only makes sense only if we sell > the first mirror to Albert and we can easily get a good price for the 2nd > existing scope. Otherwise, we are out of pocket for the full price of the > new scope. That would be a tough sell to me. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 23:12:33 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 23:13:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <001901c79e93$afa4c220$27f71345@180edt> It would also be a good idea to vote again on that question voted on at Houge. That vote may not have been per the by laws. Rich From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 24 23:27:15 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu May 24 23:26:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> <004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <465681C3.2090401@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > The club would welcome any advertising of the program (so yes Mark I > am asking). So long as any advertising makes it clear that the loaner program is for SJAA members only. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 23:28:45 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 23:28:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program In-Reply-To: <000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome> <004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt> <003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome> <005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt> <20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net> <006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt> <004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome> <000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome> Since the attached does not disclose any negotiation position, I am continuing this thread on the list. This is precisely the discussion I have scheduled for Saturday. In my mind there are two questions that are different a) What do we want the program to accomplish? b) Why has the program gone dormant and what do we want to do about it? Mike is supposed to provide an inventory for the May meeting. I was working off the list in the Ephemeris. I do not know how accurate that is. As long as the board still supports the program, we should have a look at the entire inventory. We can discuss the details Saturday. Rob Hawley >-----Original Message----- >From: Rich N [mailto:rnapo@znet.com] > >Hi Rob, > >We need to look at the whole loaner program. What is it's purpose? What >is it's current >state? How many scopes are actually being used? This is something the >entire board >should be working on. > >Next, we need to look at each scope in the loaner program. Which scopes >are ok as is? >Which scopes should we fix? Which scopes should be sold? I would like to >have all the >loaner scopes brought over to Houge so that we can see their condition and >better make >a decision on what to do with them. > > >Rich From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 24 23:33:12 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu May 24 23:32:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <46568328.4030109@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > The club is at least committed to sell the bad mirror. > > We have two scopes in the 13" range. Neither scope has been circulating. One > of them has an incredibly bad mirror. We should determine the quality of the > remaining mirror. We have a mirror making class. Some of us have been working on one for the club. Why not take this one out and re-work it ourselves? > We should sell (or trade for work) the bad mirror. The tests on the mirror > we are proposing to sell indicate it is so bad that it should not be in the > program. As long as the buyer knows it's not a good mirror. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 23:34:26 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 23:34:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <001901c79e93$afa4c220$27f71345@180edt> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com> <465562F8.2090905@aenet.net><4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com> <001901c79e93$afa4c220$27f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <004f01c79e96$bdf15020$0400a8c0@robathome> If you are talking about the rehosting it is already on the agenda. I will make a motion to reconsider the Houge vote. Assuming that passes we can discuss the additional information included with the agenda. I am going to start moving my personal website to the hosting company I prefer. That makes business sense for me regardless of what the club decides. In the process I can make sure the site supports all of the features the club requires. Regardless of the vote Saturday, I do not intend to move anything club related until I can provide assurance to the board that the site will transparently meet our needs. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 24 23:36:25 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 24 23:36:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] TAC Advertising of loaner program In-Reply-To: <465681C3.2090401@aenet.net> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465681C3.2090401@aenet.net> Message-ID: <005001c79e97$0502fa40$0400a8c0@robathome> The SJAA web page makes that clear. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 23:36:54 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 23:37:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> Even if we don't support the program (and I'm not saying I don't) we need to look at the entire inventory. Again, I would like to see all the scopes at Houge for an inspection. Or, maybe half one month and half the next month. I think stuff like the aluminum tube and broken mirror mount being stored at my house should be sold. Rich > As long as the board still supports the program, we should have a look at > the entire inventory. We can discuss the details Saturday. > > > Rob Hawley > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 24 23:47:08 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 24 23:47:15 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt><004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome> <002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <003701c79e98$83f3d080$27f71345@180edt> My view of the loaner program. I think the reason for the loaner program is to let newbies find out if they really are interested in astronomy and what its like using a telescope. A number of newbies I've talked to at the Houge star parties are really unsure about using a telescope and don't know if it would be worth investing in one. The loaner program is also good for amateur astronomers who are really hard up for cash. If an intermediate amateur wants to know if buying one scope or another is a good idea, SJAA and TAC star parties are the better tool for the job. There is no way our club could keep up with all the latest scopes and goodies, the way individuals can. The same individuals who bring equipment to club star parties. Rich From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 04:12:31 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 04:13:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Pictures of a portion of the club inventory Message-ID: <005c01c79ebd$96d69000$0400a8c0@robathome> These are the pictures from Mike's web site http://www.sjaa.net/loanpix.html The web page is not up to date. I volunteer to update it by calling in the scopes that we do not have pictures of. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Fri May 25 08:07:25 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Fri May 25 08:05:15 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. In-Reply-To: <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com> <000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > We should sell (or trade for work) the bad mirror. The tests on the mirror > we are proposing to sell indicate it is so bad that it should not be in the > program. > > We should test the second mirror. If it is equally bad we may not want to > put more money into it. Testing does not commit us to reconfiguring it. > Rob, Albert had the "bad" mirror tested, right? While I certainly trust him, just from a practical sense why would the club have a buyer determine the quality of an item instead of the club determining the quality itself? It is easy enough to have mirrors tested at Chabot. Chabot would also be able to give an estimate of what it would take to make the mirror 1/4 or 1/6th wave. Its a loaner scope - it doesn't need to be 1/15th wave (which is overkill anyway). Also, what if the second mirror is not much better than the one proposed to be "sold" (traded, whatever)? Is the club then ready to put a bad mirror in a spiffy nice new OTA, or is the club going to incur the cost of refiguring it? From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 25 10:49:51 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 25 10:50:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Pictures of a portion of the club inventory References: <005c01c79ebd$96d69000$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001201c79ef5$192c2c90$8bf71345@180edt> Thanks Rob. We need to find out the current state of the scopes in the loaner program. Just a suggestion, if we find some scopes in the loaner program we feel would be better to sell than keep in the program, it would be nice to offer to give the scope back to the person who donated it, if they would rather have it than see us sell it. Rich > > These are the pictures from Mike's web site > > http://www.sjaa.net/loanpix.html > > The web page is not up to date. I volunteer to update it by calling in the > scopes that we do not have pictures of. > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Fri May 25 11:38:41 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Fri May 25 11:38:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Message Recieved, I Resign Message-ID: <20070525120619.M63242@koopm.best.vwh.net> Dear SJAA Board, I have run the loaner program to the best of my ability for the last 10 years starting in March of 1997. I have loaned out scopes to those who asked for them, over 312 transactions over the last 10 years. I have repaired scopes which needed fixing or sent them to people who have them repaired. SJAA member Mark Wagner has declared my running of the program a FAILURE. SJAA VP Rich Neuschaefer has declared that I am not competent enough to run the loaner program and wants to recall all scopes in the program to audit them. SJAA President Rob Hawley has stated that I am trying to "micro-manage" him and does not value my input. That's three strikes. I know when I am not wanted and when to walk. Due to work, I can not spend the time to adequately defend myself or the program. Effective immediately, I resign from the Board of Directors. I resign from running the loaner program. I will have nothing to do with the running of the club. I will not be renewing my membership. Good Luck to you all. Thanks for all the fish. Michael Koop Note: I will not be attending the board meeting this Saturday. Quite frankly, I am just too upset about the actions of the last 2 months and the last few days. I have plenty of SJAA stored material at my home. I will deliver the material to the next Houge Park Star Party on June 8th along with all the information on the loaner program. From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Fri May 25 11:47:52 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Fri May 25 11:45:17 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Message Recieved, I Resign In-Reply-To: <20070525120619.M63242@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <20070525120619.M63242@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <46572F58.8060302@resource-intl.com> Michael Koop wrote: > SJAA member Mark Wagner has declared my running of the program a FAILURE. Sorry if that's how you read it Mike. That's not how my remarks were meant, and I do not think I ever used the word failure, or put any blame on anyone. We've had conversations in person where you've wondered why the program is dormant. That's all I've tried relating. I'd like to see it be active again as much as you would. Nobody has said its current lack of activity is *your* fault, just that it is inactive and it would be good to determine why and make useful. Apologies if I unintentionally gave you any impression other than that. Mark From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 11:58:56 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 11:58:56 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Message Recieved, I Resign In-Reply-To: <46572F58.8060302@resource-intl.com> References: <20070525120619.M63242@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46572F58.8060302@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <006f01c79efe$bf4cc630$0400a8c0@robathome> I certainly intend to defend the program vigorously Saturday night. I consider myself one of the examples of the success of the program. I believe in the program enough that I intend to pledge some of my own money to sweeten the deal with Albert. If you decide to reconsider, you will always be welcome back in any capacity you wish. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 25 12:01:10 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 25 12:01:21 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Message Recieved, I Resign References: <20070525120619.M63242@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <000301c79eff$0f511690$8e5ef842@180edt> Hi Mike, I hope you will reconsider. Your statement about you being not competent is absolutely not true. I've never said or implied you are not competent and I would like an apology. Our reviewing the loaner program is meant to help. It is not refection on your running of the program. Please accept our help in a friendly way. There is no need to take offence or be defensive. I have no idea why you are suddenly blowing up when there is no need. You are not under attack. Sincerely, Rich > Dear SJAA Board, > > I have run the loaner program to the best of my ability for the last 10 > years starting in March of 1997. I have loaned out scopes to those who > asked for them, over 312 transactions over the last 10 years. I have > repaired scopes which needed fixing or sent them to > people who have them repaired. > > SJAA member Mark Wagner has declared my running of the program a FAILURE. > > SJAA VP Rich Neuschaefer has declared that I am not competent enough to run > the loaner program and wants to recall all scopes in the program to audit > them. > > SJAA President Rob Hawley has stated that I am trying to "micro-manage" > him and does not value my input. > > That's three strikes. > I know when I am not wanted and when to walk. > Due to work, I can not spend the time to adequately defend myself or the > program. > > Effective immediately, > I resign from the Board of Directors. > I resign from running the loaner program. > I will have nothing to do with the running of the club. > I will not be renewing my membership. > > Good Luck to you all. > Thanks for all the fish. > > Michael Koop > > Note: > I will not be attending the board meeting this Saturday. > Quite frankly, I am just too upset about the actions of the last 2 months > and the last few days. > I have plenty of SJAA stored material at my home. > I will deliver the material to the next Houge Park Star Party on June 8th > along with all the information on the loaner program. > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Fri May 25 12:44:24 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Fri May 25 12:44:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> <4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> Dear Rob and board: If..., Mike does not change his mind about leaving (Mike, I hope you do change your mind) we will need to take time at the board meeting to discuss all the changes needed to cover the many things Mike has been doing for the club. I suggest we table the discussion about Albert's scope and the loaner program until next month (the June meeting), so that we will have time to deal with what to do if Mike does leave. Rich From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 12:58:51 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 12:58:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> Message-ID: <007901c79f07$1e70e0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> Albert has been waiting for a decision since March. I do not support delaying the vote even though that increases the likelihood that the proposal will be rejected. Rob Hawley From leebizz at aol.com Fri May 25 13:36:25 2007 From: leebizz at aol.com (leebizz@aol.com) Date: Fri May 25 13:36:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> <4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> Message-ID: <8C96D237F626F17-1494-17B1@WEBMAIL-RB11.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, ???? I suggest we consider selling many of the dormant loaner telescope inventory and use the money to buy more up to date telescopes and/or equipment.? I think Mike has been doing a good job managing a difficult task and his efforts have been largely unappreciated. ???? Let's all remember each of us has the same goal in mind- to make SJAA the best astronomy group possible and to encourage public awareness in astronomy.? This will make our membership grow and allow us to share our hobby with others.?We provide a valuable service to the community.? Non of us makes any money doing this- we do it because we like to! ???? ?It has been shown recently that many of us have different ideas about how things are to be run, from Calstar to SJAA signage to webservers.? It is my hope we can continue to improve and all be considerate of each others feelings and value each others input.? I, for one don't want Mike to resign.???? LET'S STICK TOGETHER! ???? If I have my way, we will refuse to accept Mike's resignation! ?????????????? Lee Hoglan -----Original Message----- From: Rich N To: mark.wagner@resource-intl.com; Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:44 pm Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda Dear Rob and board:? ? If..., Mike does not change his mind about leaving (Mike, I hope you do change your mind)? we will need to take time at the board meeting to discuss all the changes needed to cover the many things Mike has been doing for the club. I suggest? we table the discussion about Albert's scope and the loaner program until? next month (the June meeting), so that we will have time to deal with what? to do if Mike does leave.? ? Rich? ? ? _______________________________________________? SJAABoard mailing list? SJAABoard@sjaa.net? http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/c358b79d/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 13:39:47 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 13:39:49 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <853180.8298.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <853180.8298.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007f01c79f0c$d6eb0960$0400a8c0@robathome> Since Mike and I have basically been accused of fraud I am letting the board know that I will vote against adoption of the minutes unless the following amendment is made. This reflects Mike's and my recollection of what happened in the meeting. >------------------------------------- >Loaner Scope Program >------------------------------------- The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at the next meeting. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 14:58:40 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 14:58:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <8C96D237F626F17-1494-17B1@WEBMAIL-RB11.sysops.aol.com> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome> <4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com><001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> <8C96D237F626F17-1494-17B1@WEBMAIL-RB11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008a01c79f17$db0bdb40$0400a8c0@robathome> Mike promised that he would send me his spreadsheet tonight. I want to test the theory that loans have, in fact, slowed down. I also want to make note that despite over 100 people joining SJAA since 2004 there are comparatively few new faces at the observing sites. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 25 15:06:34 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Fri May 25 15:06:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda Message-ID: <779957.90024.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I think Mike's involvement in the club has been and continues to be very important and he's has one of the greatest PR voices of the club, not to mention being one of the friendly people who welcomed me to the club and I was happy that he was able to arrange for me to loan an 8" SCT when Elena and I first arrived in California. Despite our best attempts to utilize email to save time, I am afraid that the inevitable miscommunications that arise through this medium have definitely caused overall more harm than good. I would prefer that we spend a little more time talking in person, and a lot less time talking over email, which is leading to near endless-loops on some topics. We all share the same mission to promote our hobby. Let's slow down, take a breather, and re-approach these issues with a fresh perspective. I think an "email holiday" week-off might be the first step to recovery. Maybe 2 weeks even. Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: "leebizz@aol.com" To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:36:25 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda Hi all, I suggest we consider selling many of the dormant loaner telescope inventory and use the money to buy more up to date telescopes and/or equipment. I think Mike has been doing a good job managing a difficult task and his efforts have been largely unappreciated. Let's all remember each of us has the same goal in mind- to make SJAA the best astronomy group possible and to encourage public awareness in astronomy. This will make our membership grow and allow us to share our hobby with others. We provide a valuable service to the community. Non of us makes any money doing this- we do it because we like to! It has been shown recently that many of us have different ideas about how things are to be run, from Calstar to SJAA signage to webservers. It is my hope we can continue to improve and all be considerate of each others feelings and value each others input. I, for one don't want Mike to resign. LET'S STICK TOGETHER! If I have my way, we will refuse to accept Mike's resignation! Lee Hoglan -----Original Message----- From: Rich N To: mark.wagner@resource-intl.com; Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:44 pm Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda Dear Rob and board: If..., Mike does not change his mind about leaving (Mike, I hope you do change your mind) we will need to take time at the board meeting to discuss all the changes needed to cover the many things Mike has been doing for the club. I suggest we table the discussion about Albert's scope and the loaner program until next month (the June meeting), so that we will have time to deal with what to do if Mike does leave. Rich _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/8bd3bad5/attachment-0001.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 15:07:01 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 15:07:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May membership report Message-ID: <008e01c79f19$060295e0$0400a8c0@robathome> A little late this month ******************Expirations by month******************************** Last SJAA Meeting 4/28/2007 Report Date 5/25/2007 Apr-07 7 May-07 14 Jun-07 33 Jul-07 17 Aug-07 27 Sep-07 19 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 19 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 17 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 11 May-08 11 Jun-08 25 more than 13 months 8 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 272 email delivery 35 Labels Generated 280 S&T Members 161 New Members since last meeting 1 current + complementary 306 *****************Member retention******************** paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 13 2006 58 51 2005 64 31 2004 68** 21 2003 61** 28 2002 26** 17 < 2002 148** 111 ** based on 12/04 total 272 Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 18:12:37 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 18:12:33 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Tests of the mirror we are proposing to sell Albert Message-ID: <00b201c79f32$f3313ce0$0400a8c0@robathome> If anyone is still questioning the validity of the test, I can forward the test results. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri May 25 18:22:39 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri May 25 18:23:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: Loaner Scope program. Message-ID: I have actually listened (so far). A very good discussion by the way - because there are a lot of balancing and yet unformed opinions. I think it can still continue over email until about Saturday noon - and we will still get something out of it!!! now... I would agreee with Rich (and I think Mark) that there is not a special reason to rush into selling or spending $. However - there might be some specific steps that would get agreement. These would need to be (please, please, please) in the form of a motion. "I move to sell the 12" # N mirror on eBay for no less than XYZ dollars". - debate would be in the form of 'a second' and allowing amendments (XYZ + $35) and the usual jawboning. (amendments that don't get seconded just die also - NO need to discuss if not seconded!) Consensis is easy to measure - a majority vote in favor. No big deal. Then someone may want to try a different motion if the first fails. " I move we sell to 'his highest reflectory" for no less than ABC dollars" etc. etc. I don't think there is a need to rush - but voting to accept (with modifications) the proposed guiding document on Loaners is a good, concrete, step. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/e83f0244/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri May 25 18:38:49 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri May 25 18:39:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage Message-ID: The CALSTAR specific signs that Rob seems to be suggesting (or is that the CALSTAR Committee?) were mentioned to me a couple of months ago as '$200 worth of signs'. I consider that way overkill for a once-a-year event of 100-200 people that doesn't generate any revenue for the SJAA. I get the feeling that this is starting to turn into "CALSTAR sponsored by Rob Hawley" or is it more "Rob Hawley's CALSTAR"? Neither idea makes me feel comfortable or very warm and fuzzy. ROB - please honor my request to put the GENERAL SIGNS item on the agenda, It does not have to be attached to your agenda item! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/83c9a515/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 18:45:08 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 18:44:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00bf01c79f37$7e0d0a70$0400a8c0@robathome> The item for general signs is on the agenda that will be handed out tomorrow night. If the SJAA does not want to pay for a portion of the signs they don't have to. I will make what I need to make and they will be my property. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Fri May 25 18:49:44 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Fri May 25 18:49:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00c001c79f38$22cfb0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> CalStar is not or has it ever been intended to be a money making event for SJAA. The club has always planned to lose money on the event to subsidize offering hot meals. If the board has changed its long standing policy then it should carefully consider if it wants to offer meals this year. That is the principle cost to the club of holding the event. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri May 25 19:26:12 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri May 25 19:26:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program - Rich's take Message-ID: >If an intermediate amateur wants to know if buying one scope or another is a good >idea, SJAA and TAC star parties are the better tool for the job. There is no way >our club could keep up with all the latest scopes and goodies, the way individuals can. >The same individuals who bring equipment to club star parties. I would disagree with this part of your analysis. Mark and someone else (was it Rob) talked about how they use a LARGE DOB from the loaner program as a real test of their interest in this type of intermediate scope. A 12.5" is not a starter scope. I have had the honor and luck of using a 17.5" loaner. It barely fits in my Presus! But using it at Willow Springs and Shingletown has realy given me a gut feeling of how to "live with the beast". No one will let me touch their large Dobs at a star party - "disassemble it and pack it in your CAR!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!!" So Rich, I just think you are wrong on this. (No mind yah!) Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/61eb8c34/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri May 25 19:27:02 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri May 25 19:27:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Rich, the Majestic $$ Ram Message-ID: I think Rich deserves a nickname appropriate to his dilligent and unswerving quest to spend the $$ of the SJAA prudently. If any of us come up with a way to spend $$ ( I remember my Evergreen $100) we will have to butt heads against Rich's sense of good finance and prudent spending. I don't think we have a 'mountain' of cash, so I don't think it appropriate to nickname him the "Majestic Mountain Ram". but the $$ do sort of suggest a ram's horns. Don't mess with those horns! Steven ( from a board private back and forth) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070525/982df591/attachment-0001.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 25 21:10:14 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Fri May 25 21:10:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ***Craig's version of the minutes:*** ------------------------------------- Loaner Scope Program ------------------------------------- Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport via plane. A number of members were not comfortable that the average loanee could do this without damage. In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the loaner program as well as the above offer. ***Proposed modification of the minutes:*** >------------------------------------- >Loaner Scope Program >------------------------------------- >The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at >the next meeting. I'm sorry, but I really don't see any giant difference here other than the fact that the revised version eliminates legitimate concerns raised in the discussion and assigns an action item to Mike, which although appropriate, is not something I remember actually happening. Slightly puzzled, /Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:39:47 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Since Mike and I have basically been accused of fraud I am letting the board know that I will vote against adoption of the minutes unless the following amendment is made. This reflects Mike's and my recollection of what happened in the meeting. >------------------------------------- >Loaner Scope Program >------------------------------------- The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at the next meeting. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri May 25 21:27:29 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Fri May 25 21:27:34 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Observatory Committee update Message-ID: <162920.24346.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No updates since last meeting. I am starting a new job June 11 at Adobe which is very employee friendly and should allow me to resume my activity on this front again. I look forward to visiting Lee's place at Chew's ridge in the near future. That is all /Craig From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Fri May 25 21:27:25 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Fri May 25 21:27:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4657B72D.4080304@resource-intl.com> Craig, I agree completely with your remarks. I recall what transpired agreeing with your version of the minutes, and not what Rob has requested. Sorry, but that's what I remember. Mark Craig Scull wrote: > ***Craig's version of the minutes:*** > > ------------------------------------- > > Loaner Scope Program > > ------------------------------------- > Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes > to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of > them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport > via plane. A number of members were not comfortable > that the average loanee could do this without damage. > > In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the > loaner program as well as the above offer. > > > ***Proposed modification of the minutes:*** > > >> ------------------------------------- >> Loaner Scope Program >> ------------------------------------- >> The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at >> the next meeting. >> > > > I'm sorry, but I really don't see any giant difference here other than the fact that the revised version eliminates legitimate concerns raised in the discussion and assigns an action item to Mike, which although appropriate, is not something I remember actually happening. > > Slightly puzzled, > /Craig > > From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 01:54:00 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 01:53:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Treasurer's report for May 2007 Message-ID: <4657F5A8.8080705@aenet.net> Treasurer's report for board meeting, May 26, 2007 Accounts: CD 1 5251.66 CD 2 5167.51 CD 3 5000.00 CD 4 5000.00 Checking 2936.26 Observatory Fund 3100.51 PayPal 121.44 Savings 343.49 Petty Cash 58.54 ------------ OVERALL TOTAL 26979.41 Gary Mitchell SJAA Treasurer From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 02:58:30 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 02:57:31 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <465804C6.8060005@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > SJAA signage: star parties and other events (S. Nelson) > [for May board action item - this is GENERAL, but might be with CALSTAR sign > item] > > Summary: 12 long-lasting signs for SJAA events should be obtained for a very > modest investment ($35). They would have many uses for many events. > [snip] Steve, you're getting too carried away. You have to consider not just the cost, but who's going to store them, who's going to worry about bringing the right one to the right event and setting them out in the right place, etc. You? I see a need--just barely--for only one (star party). Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 03:38:11 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 03:37:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Pictures of a portion of the club inventory In-Reply-To: <001201c79ef5$192c2c90$8bf71345@180edt> References: <005c01c79ebd$96d69000$0400a8c0@robathome> <001201c79ef5$192c2c90$8bf71345@180edt> Message-ID: <46580E13.5000008@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > Just a suggestion, if we find some scopes in the loaner program we feel > would be better to sell than keep in the program, it would be > nice to offer to give the scope back to the person who donated it, if > they would rather have it than see us sell it. Only if the donor specifically wanted it to be used as a loaner scope. Otherwise, we'd be rejecting a donation, and that's not nice. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 03:58:26 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 03:57:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program In-Reply-To: <002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome> <002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> Message-ID: <465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > Even if we don't support the program (and I'm not saying I don't) we > need to look at the entire inventory. > > Again, I would like to see all the scopes at Houge for an inspection. > Or, maybe > half one month and half the next month. Do you realize what you're asking? Look at page 7 of the latest Ephemeris. I count 11 scopes currently on loan and 24 others scattered among many who are storing them. And you want everyone to drag them all at once (or in two batches) to Houge? And for what, so we can see them all at once in one place? Don't get me wrong, an occasional inspection and inventory is within reason, but there are much better ways of going about it. And for all I know, Mike may already be doing that on an on-going basis. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 04:02:17 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 04:01:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <007901c79f07$1e70e0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt> <007901c79f07$1e70e0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <465813B9.9050703@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > Albert has been waiting for a decision since March. I do not support > delaying the vote even though that increases the likelihood that the > proposal will be rejected. Perhaps, but I think he would understand under the current circumstances. Or is this a "limited time" offer? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 04:34:32 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 04:33:28 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46581B48.2030705@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > ***Craig's version of the minutes:*** > > ------------------------------------- > > Loaner Scope Program > > ------------------------------------- > Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes > to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of > them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport > via plane. A number of members were not comfortable > that the average loanee could do this without damage. > > In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the > loaner program as well as the above offer. > > > ***Proposed modification of the minutes:*** > > >>------------------------------------- >>Loaner Scope Program >>------------------------------------- >>The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at >>the next meeting. > > > > I'm sorry, but I really don't see any giant difference here other than > the fact that the revised version eliminates legitimate concerns raised > in the discussion and assigns an action item to Mike, which although > appropriate, is not something I remember actually happening. The minutes are a record of the meeting. I don't remember that happening either, (but that's not saying much). Unless someone can swear that it happened, it shouldn't be added to the minutes. If we want this as an action item, then let's see to it at the next meeting. That's how to do it, not tuck it into the previous minutes and then pretend Mike was asked to do something that he (perhaps) hasn't done. Gary From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Sat May 26 06:00:18 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat May 26 06:01:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <46581B48.2030705@aenet.net> References: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46581B48.2030705@aenet.net> Message-ID: <46582F62.9070109@resource-intl.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: > Unless someone can swear that it happened, it shouldn't be added to > the minutes. I don't advise doing that. What you have in that case is a disagreement. There are three of us now, and I suspect at least one more person, who don't recall it happening that way at all. When at Plettstone last weekend, Rob and I (and maybe Albert too) were discussing the SJAA board meeting minutes. A suggestion was made that in order to avoid confusion after the fact (instead of the usual confusion during the meetings ;-) .... when the Secretary has taken down the minutes, there is a "read-back" of them, right then (before moving on to the next agenda item), for everyone to agree on. That might eliminate the problem of hazy memories and requests to revise things weeks after the fact, like this one (the Albert Deal) where one board member seems quite certain of something three other people who attended the meeting disagreeing with. Mark From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 06:33:14 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 06:33:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d701c79f9a$6a636fb0$0400a8c0@robathome> I'm sorry I was not clear. I wanted you to add my line to what was already there. The rest should remain. Rob Hawley >-----Original Message----- >From: sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net [mailto:sjaaboard-bounces@sjaa.net] On >Behalf Of Craig Scull >Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:10 PM >To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members >Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting >Minutes > >***Craig's version of the minutes:*** > >------------------------------------- > >Loaner Scope Program > >------------------------------------- >Albert offers to convert two 13" club loaner scopes >to Highe designs in exchange for him keeping one of >them. Albert's design requires extra care to transport >via plane. A number of members were not comfortable >that the average loanee could do this without damage. > >In the next meeting we will revisit the goals of the >loaner program as well as the above offer. > > >***Proposed modification of the minutes:*** > >>------------------------------------- >>Loaner Scope Program >>------------------------------------- >>The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at >>the next meeting. > > >I'm sorry, but I really don't see any giant difference here other than the >fact that the revised version eliminates legitimate concerns raised in the >discussion and assigns an action item to Mike, which although appropriate, >is not something I remember actually happening. > >Slightly puzzled, >/Craig > > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Rob Hawley >To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members > >Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:39:47 PM >Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting >Minutes > >Since Mike and I have basically been accused of fraud I am letting the >board >know that I will vote against adoption of the minutes unless the following >amendment is made. This reflects Mike's and my recollection of what >happened >in the meeting. > >>------------------------------------- >>Loaner Scope Program >>------------------------------------- > >The board tasked Mike to firm up a proposal with Albert and present it at >the next meeting. > > >Rob Hawley > > > > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 06:38:55 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 06:39:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]Alleged "Audit" of the scopes In-Reply-To: <465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome><002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> <465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> Message-ID: <00d801c79f9b$34f112f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Rich never intended to ask for that. What he wanted was to get some idea of what was in the inventory. That was an entirely reasonable request. Supplying the link to the admittedly not up to date web page, answered Rich's question. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 06:46:19 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 06:46:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <465813B9.9050703@aenet.net> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt><007901c79f07$1e70e0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465813B9.9050703@aenet.net> Message-ID: <00dc01c79f9c$3da92bc0$0400a8c0@robathome> Albert has been waiting for 2 months to start work on a scope that he needs. If the club is not going to supply him a mirror, then he needs to procure one elsewhere. So the deal expires Saturday night. He confirmed this morning that, should we choose to go the route of just selling the mirror, he does not feel the mirror is worth more than he was offering. I doubt we could get more for it based on the tests. If the club decides to sell the mirror on its own it risks getting >>less<< than $300 for it. If the club takes up the offer to refurb the second scope then it side steps the issue of the dollar value of the first mirror. I would insist on having the second mirror tested and refigured if it was worse than 1/4 wave. That would delay its availability to Albert, but I don't think that is a problem. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 07:07:51 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 07:07:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]Alleged "Audit" of the scopes In-Reply-To: <00d801c79f9b$34f112f0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome><002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt><465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> <00d801c79f9b$34f112f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <00df01c79f9f$3fada6f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Mike's web page has pictures of the remaining scopes. http://koopm.best.vwh.net/sjaaloan.html I am using information supplied by him to update the club inventory. I will be able to satisfy his action item tonight. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Sat May 26 07:25:14 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat May 26 07:25:29 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Next Steps in loaner program References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome><002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt> <465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> Message-ID: <001101c79fa1$ad63fa30$6ef61345@180edt> > Rich N wrote: > >> Even if we don't support the program (and I'm not saying I don't) we >> need to look at the entire inventory. >> >> Again, I would like to see all the scopes at Houge for an inspection. >> Or, maybe >> half one month and half the next month. > > Do you realize what you're asking? > > Look at page 7 of the latest Ephemeris. I count 11 scopes > currently on loan and 24 others scattered among many who are > storing them. And you want everyone to drag them all at once > (or in two batches) to Houge? And for what, so we can see > them all at once in one place? > > Don't get me wrong, an occasional inspection and inventory is > within reason, but there are much better ways of going about > it. And for all I know, Mike may already be doing that on an > on-going basis. > > Gary My reason for wanting to see the loaner scopes is to see which ones are reasonably easy to use and worth keeping and which ones are not. Which ones are worth fixing or upgrading and which ones we should sell. Then there is the question of how many loaner scopes do we need? Must we have 35 scopes in the program? Rich From rnapo at znet.com Sat May 26 07:29:45 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat May 26 07:30:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]Alleged "Audit" of the scopes References: <003901c79e7c$3640faf0$0400a8c0@robathome><004401c79e7d$97404260$ddf61345@180edt><003c01c79e7f$0dc1ac20$0400a8c0@robathome><005201c79e80$3e8a6c10$ddf61345@180edt><20070524215755.L15562@koopm.best.vwh.net><006601c79e83$7ada74f0$ddf61345@180edt><004901c79e8c$98ff0b90$0400a8c0@robathome><000901c79e92$9cc330c0$27f71345@180edt> <004e01c79e95$f2b59290$0400a8c0@robathome><002801c79e97$167f4bc0$27f71345@180edt><465812D2.7080807@aenet.net> <00d801c79f9b$34f112f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001d01c79fa2$4f40beb0$6ef61345@180edt> > Rich never intended to ask for that. > > What he wanted was to get some idea of what was in the inventory. That was > an entirely reasonable request. Supplying the link to the admittedly not up > to date web page, answered Rich's question. > > > Rob Hawley It answered some of my questions but I think we still need to look and touch the scopes so that we will have a better idea of what we have to work with. Even the scopes in that series of photos may have changed a bit over the years since those pictures were taken. Rich From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat May 26 08:16:50 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat May 26 08:17:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: Thank you Craig. (Craig's version) Rob - one vote will not close off adoption. Vote your concience! Rob - personal note (since you aren't talking to me personally anymore) Please lay of the "fraud" and "lawyer" business on stuff concerning amatuer astronomy. It is inappropriate in my opinion. The use of a quote from the Internet is perfectly appropriate (Digital Millenium Copyright Act), I can reference our ByLaws and state law without having to be concerned about lawyers and suing anybody. And we on the SJAA Board can have reasonable differences in opinion, and Understanding, without any fault other than dumbness, inattention, or buttheadedness (an extreme form of hardheadedness!). As we know - I suffer from some of these same malidies some of the time (thank God not ALL THE TIME!). love and peace Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/189a7ead/attachment.html From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Sat May 26 08:18:06 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat May 26 08:18:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <00dc01c79f9c$3da92bc0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <4654E118.4090807@resource-intl.com><465562F8.2090905@aenet.net> <4655A9A5.3020604@resource-intl.com><004301c79e18$bf8cd4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <4655B9F2.10105@resource-intl.com><000e01c79e27$8f28fe10$0400a8c0@robathome><4656FBAD.8030505@resource-intl.com> <001e01c79f05$19a3da50$8e5ef842@180edt><007901c79f07$1e70e0d0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465813B9.9050703@aenet.net> <00dc01c79f9c$3da92bc0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <46584FAD.1010401@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > Albert has been waiting for 2 months to start work on a scope that he needs. > If the club is not going to supply him a mirror, then he needs to procure > one elsewhere. > Maybe you can help me understand this better. What was presented to the board last month, which is the only time this topic has been discussed by the board, was that two 13" scopes be given to Albert, one would come back to the club rebuilt, the other would be kept but possibly not owned by Albert. The project would take 9 months. Now it appears that Albert needs the mirror immediately, and depending on how I read your note, the mirror may be for another project, other than what was presented to the board. It also sounds to me like Albert has already been supplied at least one of the clubs mirrors, and there is reluctance to ask for it back. It also sounds to me like what may be being proposed is turning two club assets into one, and that there is not an understanding at this point of what the condition of either mirror is, except for what Albert says the condition is of the one he currently has is. It also feels to me that every wrangle and perturbation possible is being tried to make this happen.... that the "deal" is continuously being "morphed".... and that there is even disagreement over what is in the minutes of the last meeting regarding what was offered and/or decided! > So the deal expires Saturday night. I think that is not a reasonable expectation, given how many things are really unknown. And when you throw in the loaner scope program, the desire to look at each scope in an audit/review - with 35+ scopes - if you looked at two per month at the board meetings it would take a year and a half to adequately assess them. I would let the deal expire. If Albert needs a mirror immediately, there are likely other sources. Mark From craigus at rocketmail.com Sat May 26 08:31:13 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sat May 26 08:31:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <175592.60915.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> It's a good idea. I have off and on done this in the past, and can make a point of doing this consistently in the future. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Wagner To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:00:18 AM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Gary Mitchell wrote: > Unless someone can swear that it happened, it shouldn't be added to > the minutes. I don't advise doing that. What you have in that case is a disagreement. There are three of us now, and I suspect at least one more person, who don't recall it happening that way at all. When at Plettstone last weekend, Rob and I (and maybe Albert too) were discussing the SJAA board meeting minutes. A suggestion was made that in order to avoid confusion after the fact (instead of the usual confusion during the meetings ;-) .... when the Secretary has taken down the minutes, there is a "read-back" of them, right then (before moving on to the next agenda item), for everyone to agree on. That might eliminate the problem of hazy memories and requests to revise things weeks after the fact, like this one (the Albert Deal) where one board member seems quite certain of something three other people who attended the meeting disagreeing with. Mark _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat May 26 08:49:40 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat May 26 08:55:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting Agenda: signage (Gary questions) Message-ID: Gary (and others - Rich you'r out of it! (:-) Hi you all. Here is my (revised from very first message last month) thinking. My favorite is "Real estate A-Frame (blank)" but those are $27 each for a 24" x 24" two sided blank made of plastic. They are not exactly flat -a pile would take up a foot or more of car trunks depth. There would only be a few (because of price) so there would start to be an issue of storage for easy access by several people who put on events. i.e My favorate has several logistic problems, even though it has proven in my neighborhood to be a great 'technical solution'. Flat corregated signs on two thick metal wire legs are ubiquitous at election time! If make of plastic corregated - they last decades! (I will bring my examples). These, in the 24" x 18" size are 'industry standard'. They have proven to be wind and wet resistant! - problems they fix better - They are cheaper, they are smaller. So ... buy material for a dozen. Four different people can have 3 in their possession (these take very little trunk or garage space). We have a dozen for any large event (24 unique sides if temporary overlays are used). SJAA need - I have traced comments on our star parties back to 2001. A whole lot of then state that "you need better signs!" (total agreement with Rob on this). This also includes Coe where people drive their pickups with lights on right into the middle of the MM! Don't you think a large "LIGHTS OUT" sign might possibly have made a difference? I think we owe it to our customers to give it a try (and listen totheir suggestions). love and peace (last message on this topic) Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/de4001c2/attachment-0001.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat May 26 09:06:48 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat May 26 09:07:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Pictures of a portion of the club inventory Message-ID: club inventory Mike has been the steward of this important club asset as long as I have been a member. Make no mistake - even if considerd only in terms of 'replacement value' these assests are very important as a foundation of the SJAA. As several very influential members of this list -and also of Northern California observing (bow to TAC founders) have testified, this resource has had profound effects on some of our personal observing lives. There is NO MAJORITY SUPPORT for selling off this asset! (Rich, you are way in the minority) I do not like the WE attitude the the Board is taking on this matter. SJAA has had an extremely competent steward of this asset. It is extremely clear who this person has been and he has acted in a professional manner and always gotten approval of the Board. We have enough money to give this person some slack! Our Loaner resource and its extent and depth is unique as far as I can tell in the entire COUNTRY - I myself do not have a problem with $1000 for an experiment with a new scope type or method of getting a scope. We don't need a committee of the whole, we have the expert! peace and love Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/404cb4f8/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 09:08:59 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 09:08:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Help wanted: Loaner Program manager Message-ID: <00f601c79fb0$2b9f7740$0400a8c0@robathome> We need to select a new manager at tonight's meeting. The manager needs to be prepared to store unused scopes. He will likely also have responsibilities to either repair the scopes himself or get others to do the repairs. Many of the scopes could use some TLC. It would be desirable if they had experience selling on either AstroMart or E-Bay. I have no interest in the position. I only accepted the president's job this year because Mike agreed to continue with the loaner program. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Sat May 26 09:15:41 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat May 26 09:15:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Help wanted: Loaner Program manager References: <00f601c79fb0$2b9f7740$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <006001c79fb1$1b89ec40$6ef61345@180edt> There is also the issue of what Mike was doing to get out the club newsletter. And, anything else Mike was doing that we need to discuss. Rich > We need to select a new manager at tonight's meeting. The manager needs to > be prepared to store unused scopes. > > He will likely also have responsibilities to either repair the scopes > himself or get others to do the repairs. Many of the scopes could use some > TLC. It would be desirable if they had experience selling on either > AstroMart or E-Bay. > > > I have no interest in the position. I only accepted the president's job > this year because Mike agreed to continue with the loaner program. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat May 26 09:33:26 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat May 26 09:33:41 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Item one on agenda - I'm running for Chairperson of the Board Message-ID: Gee guys, now we start to see what happens when we sort of stumble throught meetings and don't really pay much attention to procedures. I would say a good mess. Meeting Minutes are Important. SJAA Bylaws are Also Important. Our Bylaws allow separation of the function of running Board meetings and running the executive functions of the club. (article 4 section 1 & 6). This function is called "Chairperson of the Board". This person has no power to sign checks or do any other function of executive officers. Like Mike, last month I too was considering resigning - probably just by not showing up at Board meetings, then letting my SJAA membership expire, and fading out and getting dropped from the Board by default. - Make no mistake - If I was elected I would not accept rambling debate when we were not in "a committee of the whole". There would be a lot more "the Chair rules you out of order" to focus business. Nothing would be "decided by Board action" unless it was (1) submitted to the Chairperson IN WRITTING, seconded, and voted on by a majority of the Board (after the Secretary Reads The Motion) (good point Mark - standard parlimentary procedure) Gentlemen - I want to take a more active leadership role in this organization. But I also think that Rob has the time, talents and desire to be a major mover in the club as he has shown in the past. I think it is extremely important to DISTRIBUTE THE LEADERSHIP. We have a habit of concentrating it - it leads to bunout (ask the last two Presidents and the fellow who recently had a public hissy fit). - please - just read the Bylaws if you'r supprised - and let my motion die from the lack of a second if you think its totally dumb! love and peace Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/3b7336a8/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Sat May 26 09:45:13 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat May 26 09:45:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Pictures of a portion of the club inventory References: Message-ID: <007001c79fb5$3be63cb0$6ef61345@180edt> Steven, Mike has said there are scopes that need to be fixed and or replaced in the loaner program. The "we" was an effort to help in that process. There is absolutely zero reason for Mike or anyone else to see this "we" as insult or a threat. Mike is always saying how busy he is, so why shouldn't other people in the club help refresh the loaner program? Where is the harm in that? No one is suggesting getting rid of the loaner program and selling off all the scopes. I think it likely that some of the scopes should be replaced with ones that are easier to use and perform as well or better than some of the old scopes. We should look at what type and size of scopes would be best for the loaner program. We need to also look into how many loaner scopes we need in the loaner program. Rich club inventory Mike has been the steward of this important club asset as long as I have been a member. Make no mistake - even if considerd only in terms of 'replacement value' these assests are very important as a foundation of the SJAA. As several very influential members of this list -and also of Northern California observing (bow to TAC founders) have testified, this resource has had profound effects on some of our personal observing lives. There is NO MAJORITY SUPPORT for selling off this asset! (Rich, you are way in the minority) I do not like the WE attitude the the Board is taking on this matter. SJAA has had an extremely competent steward of this asset. It is extremely clear who this person has been and he has acted in a professional manner and always gotten approval of the Board. We have enough money to give this person some slack! Our Loaner resource and its extent and depth is unique as far as I can tell in the entire COUNTRY - I myself do not have a problem with $1000 for an experiment with a new scope type or method of getting a scope. We don't need a committee of the whole, we have the expert! peace and love Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/8e58ec18/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Sat May 26 09:48:45 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat May 26 09:48:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Item one on agenda - I'm running for Chairperson of theBoard References: Message-ID: <007e01c79fb5$ba3745f0$6ef61345@180edt> We know. . Gentlemen - I want to take a more active leadership role in this organization. Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070526/0e82358c/attachment-0001.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 09:49:03 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 09:49:00 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Albert deal and completion of Mike's action item. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010601c79fb5$c513bad0$0400a8c0@robathome> I am perfectly OK with the club turning down the offer. I think it is a good deal. If the board does not want to invest in the program or wishes to pay retail prices to do so that is certainly a decision it can make. I am profoundly embarrassed that the club has taken so long to make a decision. This was partially due to not having a board meeting at the beginning of April. It was also unfortunate that the April 28th meeting was dominated by the discussion of Mike's travel scope idea. That was never part of Albert's proposal. It prevented the board from discussing what Albert was proposing. The offer was in the draft agenda I sent. Please review it. If there is no second to either proposal we can move on. I was planning to offer to subsidize the refurb and to offer to refurb other club scopes myself at my expense. Those offers are now off the table. I have an updated status and inventory of the loaner program that is required to complete Mike's action item on the inventory. I also intend to introduce a resolution that the board apologize to Mike for remarks made by members and others on the board list that the program was "dormant". The spreadsheet will show that was not the case. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 09:54:49 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 09:54:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Item one on agenda - I'm running for Chairperson of theBoard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011301c79fb6$9302d890$0400a8c0@robathome> Just to let the board know. If Steve is elected to that position, I will immediately resign from the board and terminate all SJAA responsibilities. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Sat May 26 10:08:09 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Sat May 26 10:05:32 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Albert deal and completion of Mike's action item. In-Reply-To: <010601c79fb5$c513bad0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <010601c79fb5$c513bad0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <46586979.5050303@resource-intl.com> Rob Hawley wrote: > If the board does not want to invest in the program > Rob, I don't think anyone has suggested that in any way. What I see being suggested is that there is no need to rush into something that is very ill defined and constantly changing. From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat May 26 10:09:32 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat May 26 10:09:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Albert deal and completion of Mike's action item. In-Reply-To: <46586979.5050303@resource-intl.com> References: <010601c79fb5$c513bad0$0400a8c0@robathome> <46586979.5050303@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <011401c79fb8$a1271380$0400a8c0@robathome> If board members feel that way they should vote no or refuse to offer a second. It is unfortunate that the issue was not handled properly in the last board meeting. Rob Hawley From reade at stanford.edu Sat May 26 17:36:50 2007 From: reade at stanford.edu (Gordon Reade) Date: Sat May 26 17:36:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Board Meeting In-Reply-To: <011401c79fb8$a1271380$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <010601c79fb5$c513bad0$0400a8c0@robathome> <46586979.5050303@resource-intl.com> <011401c79fb8$a1271380$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20070526173650.i7tg1sfoizivkcs4@webmail.stanford.edu> Dear Friends I'm afraid I'll have to miss tonights board meeting. Something has come up Clear Skies Gordon Reade From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat May 26 17:45:02 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat May 26 17:43:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: April 28 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <46582F62.9070109@resource-intl.com> References: <554958.14602.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46581B48.2030705@aenet.net> <46582F62.9070109@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <4658D48E.3050202@aenet.net> Mark Wagner wrote: > Gary Mitchell wrote: > >> Unless someone can swear that it happened, it shouldn't be added to >> the minutes. > > I don't advise doing that. What you have in that case is a > disagreement. There are three of us now, and I suspect at least one > more person, who don't recall it happening that way at all. I tried to choose my words carefully. I said I don't recall it happening. That's not the same as saying it did not happen, there's a difference. If someone says it did and the rest say they don't recall it, that's one for and the rest don't know. That's not a disagreement. On the other hand, if someone specifically remembers that it did not happen, that's different. > When at Plettstone last weekend, Rob and I (and maybe Albert too) were > discussing the SJAA board meeting minutes. A suggestion was made that > in order to avoid confusion after the fact (instead of the usual > confusion during the meetings ;-) .... when the Secretary has taken down > the minutes, there is a "read-back" of them, right then (before moving > on to the next agenda item), for everyone to agree on. That might > eliminate the problem of hazy memories and requests to revise things > weeks after the fact, like this one (the Albert Deal) where one board > member seems quite certain of something three other people who attended > the meeting disagreeing with. We'll often do that with motions. If we do that with everything, I'm afraid it will slow things down. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun May 27 10:17:05 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sun May 27 10:18:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model Message-ID: <013b01c7a082$d9e1e040$0400a8c0@robathome> I brought these Saturday, but did not get a chance to mention it. If no one claims these items by Thursday they go in the Friday trash. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Sun May 27 10:28:12 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun May 27 10:28:29 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model References: <013b01c7a082$d9e1e040$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <000901c7a084$67bd1280$90f71345@180edt> Does a tiny little weed whacker come with the model? Rich >I brought these Saturday, but did not get a chance to mention it. > > If no one claims these items by Thursday they go in the Friday trash. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun May 27 19:40:00 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sun May 27 19:40:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here are the meeting minutes... nice and fresh :) ====================================================== May 26, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ====================================================== Rob made a motion to approve the April meeting minutes. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Members present ------------------------------------- SJAA Board Members *-Mike Koop (not present, but excused) *-Rob Hawley *-Rich Neuschaefer *-Lee Hoglan *-Craig Scull *-Gary Mitchell *-Steve Nelson *-Dave Smith *-Gordon Reade (not present, but excused) SJAA Members *-Mark Wagner *-Robert Armstrong ------------------------------------- Coverage for upcoming events ------------------------------------- 2 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 7 -Th- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 8 -Fr- Astronomy Class at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Rob 8 -Fr- Houge Park star party. -Rob 9 -Sa- Public star party at Coyote Lake Park. -Rob 22 -Fr- Houge Park star party. -Rob 23 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 30 -Sa- General Meeting. SFAA member John Dillon, science historian, will tell us of the search for the first telescope. This talk is re-scheduled from February. Board meeting at 6:00; General Meeting at 8:00 ------------------------------------- President's Soapbox ------------------------------------- This week we all got a tough lesson on the importance making sure the minutes of the meeting are accurate. Not having complete minutes has, in the last couple of months, caused hard feelings on a number of occasions. While Craig tries to record the many conversations that happen in the board meeting, it is our shared responsibility to make sure the minutes are correct and not his alone. It has been stated many times this week "if it ain't in the minutes it did not happen". I believe that is the correct sentiment. To that end, I want to see us adopt the following changes in how we run meetings. 1. I want to reiterate the thought that the minutes must reflect all actionable decisions. We all need to examine the minutes carefully to insure all of the decisions or action items we care about are in the minutes. Neither Mike nor I caught that Mike's action item was not in the minutes. That was our fault. 2. We need to express clear resolutions that can be voted on and not vague thoughts. We got excellent results at the last meeting by my bringing the text of two resolutions to the meeting. I strongly suggest if someone wants the board to do something, they bring the words on paper to the meeting. 3. If we get in a rat hole either I or someone else needs to suggest we make a motion. Endless debate is not a good use of our time. If there is no support for an idea a vote will show that. 4. Sometimes we need to decide to table ideas. 5. When the board handles a particularly contentious issue, the chair or any member, will ask that the minutes be read and reviewed during the meeting. Hopefully if we adopt these steps the board will operate more smoothly. ------------------------------------- Mike as Life Member ------------------------------------- Concern was expressed that this would incur extra cost to the club. However, this cost would be a non- issue if the Ephemeris were emailed to Mike. Steve suggested we table the discussion until next month and the general concensus was that this was appropriate. ------------------------------------- Treasurer's report - Gary Mitchell ------------------------------------- We have a positive cashflow. Accounts: CD 1 5251.66 CD 2 5167.51 CD 3 5000.00 CD 4 5000.00 Checking 2936.26 Observatory Fund 3100.51 PayPal 121.44 Savings 343.49 Petty Cash 58.54 ------------ OVERALL TOTAL 26979.41 ------------------------------------- Coyote Star Parties ------------------------------------- Rob is planning to bring the things needed to allow grilling again. The next event will be held at the boat ramp, which is a safer location because it does not have as many gopher holes as the large field. There is some possible competition for the grills with the campers. We decided that the grill has added to the ambience previously and is worth the trouble to continue doing. Rob made a motion to continue doing the grill/potlluck with the new policy that the grill be cooled with water when the grilling is over. The motion was seconded. The motion was approved by majority vote. One abstained. One vote was against. Signage has been an issue with this event and signage ideas will be reviewed in the next agenda item. ------------------------------------- Signage for other SJAA events ------------------------------------- Steve brought us a sample 16 year old sign made of corrugated plastic that he has used to announce recycling day in his neighborhood. Steve is proposing to make 12 of these signs for use at SJAA events. Half of these signs would have permanent wording on them and half of the signs would use a clip-on technique using office bulk paper clips to hold a custom message to the sign's frame. He also brought large corrugated sheets of plastic to show us. Steve showed us a saw-horse style sign that unfolds open. The frame was made of PVC pipe. Rob expressed interest in this method for Calstar. Calstar was described as a separate problem because more signs are needed compared to other SJAA events. Steve made a motion that the board approve the reinbursement of up to $37 to him for the cost of corrugated plastic signs. Craig seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Calstar - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Rob is going to utilize some aspects of the signage materials that Steve showed us tonight. Rob passed a motion for the board to approve the reinbursement of up to $200 to him for the cost of signs and cones for Calstar. Craig seconded the motion. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Budget-wise, the goal of Calstar has been to only lose around $100 dollars. Steve made a motion to adjust the budget to a break even point. A risk of this is that the SJAA may be perceived negatively if they make money and the prediction is never a guarantee of the actual net outcome of the event, so it's possible that SJAA could make money. Gary seconded the motion. The motion passed by majority vote. There were no abstentions and one vote against. Rob made a motion for two $125 checks to be made out to Valley Catering and one refundable $300 check. Steve seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Reconsideration of SJAA Web Hosting ------------------------------------- On the 10th of this month our web site went down. On the 11th Rob proposed we migrate our site and mail lists to an alternative web hosting company, Lunar Pages. We previously had an emergency board meeting at Hoagie Park where we approved this decision. However, further analysis has revealed that this company will not fully meet our requirements. Currently our site is still hosted with Mojo. Rob made a motion to reverse the prior decision to use Lunar Pages, Rich seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Blue Host is a new company that Rob has found. Blue Host does not charge for mail lists. They offer similar services as Mojo provides. Rob suggests we move the site and not the mail lists in the first phase to Blue Host. Mojo has restructured the mail lists so that they can continue to be hosted by him separate from the club's site. In a second phase the mail lists would be moved to Blue Host at no additional charge. Blue Host costs $95/year. $166/2years. Rob moves to table the discussion until next meeting at which point he will have further details. Rich seconded the motion. ------------------------------------- Hosting for School Program and Club Calendar (among others) ------------------------------------- Rob made a motion to migrate all SJAA sites to the main SJAA site. The loaner list and status pages, the club calendar, and the school party calendar, and anything else. Gary seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Goals of Loaner Program ------------------------------------- Rob showed us a first draft of the loaner scope program mission statement. It consisted of two paragraphs. Rob proposed that this mission statement be used as a first draft to be used going forward and that it would be revised based on further input from the board. It was seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. The draft statements are as follows: *Mission Statement for Loaner Program* Who Program is intended to Aid 1. Beginners Beginners should be able to get beginner level instruments that they can use (transport, setup, operate) to encourage their interest in the hobby. This contrasts to their seeing the instruments demonstrated at star parties 2. Intermediates If we have successfully attracted a new person to the hobby then most likely that person will desire a larger scope. The program should allow them to use scopes to see how large an instrument they can transport, set it up, and operate. The question was put on the table as to who can replace Mike for the loaner telescope program. Steve made a motion that he be chairman of the loaner telescope program with 3 committee members. The motion was not seconded. Rich expressed interest in possibly heading this up. In discussion it came out that there were 3 people who previously helped Mike out with the running of the program: Bill O'Shaunasy, Phil Chambers, Jim Bartellini. Mike provided a detailed inventory of the loaner program and at least 1/2 of the telescopes changed hands last year. From the facts brought to the meeting it was not known what number of these were "loan ending" transactions (e.g. scope moving into storage) and which number were "loan beginning" transactions (moving into a new loan). The program will be considered dormant until next month at which time we will have more time to consider how to proceed. There is a strong general sentiment that the loaner telescope program serves a valuable purpose and that all look forward to it becoming active again in the near future. ------------------------------------- Albert Highe Offer ------------------------------------- Rob made a motion that the Option 2 proposal be accepted. An amendment was proposed that the telescope Albert builds must be completed in 12 months and that we obtain the agreement in writing. The amendment was seconded. The amendment passed by unanimous vote. Option 2 proposal follows: Scope #28 (13.1" Coulter dob) will be given to Albert to remake this telescope as one of his design. Albert will also be given the mirror from scope #27 (13.1" Coulter dob) for his labor and materials (wood, struts, laminate, hardware, glue, finish, etc.) whose value he estimates to be at least $300. The mirror cell and any other components from the existing telescope (#28) would be used. Rob estimated the cost of replacing certain accessories to be: $199 JMI NGF-DX2 Focuser $100 Orion 9x50 and mounting base $35 Red dot finder $130 Spider The amounts are well within the amounts the club has traditionally authorized for Mike to maintain the inventory. Based on Craig's experience using scope #28 the board did not feel that refiguring was required. The amended motion was seconded. The motion passed by majority vote. One vote against. One abstention. Following the vote Rob announced that he intended to donate the full cost of the accessories to the club. Thanks Rob! ------------------------------------- Observatory Committee - Craig Scull ------------------------------------- No updates since last meeting. I am starting a new job June 11 at Adobe which is very employee friendly and should allow me to resume activity on this front again. I look forward to visiting Lee's place at Chew's ridge in the near future. ------------------------------------- School star parties - Jim Van Nuland ------------------------------------- Cumulative list of school events for 2006-7 school year Total Good Part. Cloudy Cancel sched sky succ. fail at noon Aug 1 1 - - - Sep 1 1 - - - Oct 7 6 - 1 - Nov 12 5 - 2 5 Dec 6 1 - - 5 Jan 8 6 2 - - Feb 7 1 3 2 1 Mar 14 9 4 1 - Apr 5 4 - 1 - May 6 6 - 0 - ----------------------------------- tot 67 40 9 7 11 Coming attractions, including part of 2008. Total Firm Makeup Negotiating ... Aug 3 3 - - Oct 1 1 - - Nov 1 1 - - Feb 1 1 - - 2008. "Makeup" are firm dates. They will be dropped from this list if the primary event is successful. If primary fails, the makeup event will be moved from 3rd to 2nd column, and the name of the school will be added on the Current Events page. ------------------------------------- Membership report - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- ***Expirations by month*** Last SJAA Meeting 4/28/2007 Report Date 5/25/2007 Apr-07 7 May-07 14 Jun-07 33 Jul-07 17 Aug-07 27 Sep-07 19 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 19 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 17 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 11 May-08 11 Jun-08 25 more than 13 months 8 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 272 email delivery 35 Labels Generated 280 S&T Members 161 New Members since last meeting 1 current + complementary 306 ***Member retention*** paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 13 2006 58 51 2005 64 31 2004 68** 21 2003 61** 28 2002 26** 17 < 2002 148** 111 ** based on 12/04 total 272 The meeting was adjourned at 7:57pm From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun May 27 21:54:24 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun May 27 21:53:18 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model In-Reply-To: <013b01c7a082$d9e1e040$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <013b01c7a082$d9e1e040$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <465A6080.20703@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > I brought these Saturday, but did not get a chance to mention it. > > If no one claims these items by Thursday they go in the Friday trash. Maybe ask Bob Ayers if he wants them. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Sun May 27 22:25:19 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sun May 27 22:25:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c7a0e8$959c3e10$0400a8c0@robathome> I did not make a motion to approve the April minutes and I voted against their adoption. Houge is misspelled in the hosting section. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Mon May 28 12:27:57 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon May 28 10:31:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] JVN's web pages (was: Board Meeting Minutes References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <465B2D3D.5F38@svpal.org> Craig Scull wrote: > > Here are the meeting minutes... nice and fresh :) > > ====================================================== > May 26, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes > - Craig Scull > ====================================================== > Hosting for School Program and Club Calendar (among > others) > ------------------------------------- > Rob made a motion to migrate all SJAA sites to the > main SJAA site. The loaner list and status pages, the > club calendar, and the school party calendar, and > anything else. Gary seconded. The motion passed > unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Rob, FYI -- The pages hotline.htm year2007.htm (etc) hotline.html (redirects to hotline.htm) current.htm (school schedule, directions, dates) newteach.htm (advice for teachers) newscope.htm (advice for astronomers) yosemite.htm (information about Glacier Point star parties) are on my personal web site , all in the public_html directory. I send pages to them using command-line FTP, running in a DOS window under Windows 98. I have tried using the drag-and-drop method with Windows' Internet Explorer but prefer the FTP as it seems more reliable and is sharply simpler for me. YMMV. All pages are plain ascii text, edited with a line editor such as Windows Notepad. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 11:43:54 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 11:44:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> >From Rob's listing of our loaner scopes: 1 Apparently owned by someone else. 33 Total number of loaner scopes owned by the SJAA (I didn't count the mirror sold to Albert. I left that mirror less scope out of the count.) 1 Out for repair by Albert 5 Still within their due date 26 Scopes are past due Please feel free to check my numbers, I may have missed something. One could assume that the scopes still within their due date are actively being used. One could also assume that the scopes past due are, in effect, in storage. If not they would likely have been collected and assigned to someone else. If these assumptions are correct, we have 5 scopes being used and the rest (28 scopes) are in storage or being repaired. Please note, this is in no way a knock on what Mike was doing. Clear skies, Rich From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon May 28 13:40:16 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon May 28 13:40:47 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model - claim model Message-ID: model - sorry - I could use this for my kids science class on geology and topo maps. Thanks ( I slipped out and forgot ALSO!) I also forgot the $5 I owe to the MM manual effort! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070528/81afea0a/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 13:54:29 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 13:55:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model - claim model References: Message-ID: <008801c7a16a$631e1670$91f61345@180edt> That's a neat use for Rob's model! Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Ayers photos and model - claim model model - sorry - I could use this for my kids science class on geology and topo maps. Thanks ( I slipped out and forgot ALSO!) I also forgot the $5 I owe to the MM manual effort! Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070528/a602a8e1/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon May 28 14:49:19 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon May 28 14:49:32 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes - as assets Message-ID: Rich (& Board), It helps having several people look at things and try to figure out what they mean. I am still trying to figure out what the #s we have for membership 'mean'. It looks like Rob has ben trying various ways to sort and understand this. One view of how to think of Loaner Telescopes - an asset base with a low return on capital. This asset base is mostly donation - with a substantial maintenance fee. This asset is sort of like a 'physical endowment' This asset is more value to us, when scopes are used, than as cash out on sale (come on $50 for an 8" scope with reasonable mirror, eyepieces, red-dot) [this is only a minor mistep in our execution - considering the volume of our [assets in this category, it is not a significant issue] ROA 5/26 = 19% which on second thought I think would be considered extremely good! Rich, can you look up the $ we have spent in the last 3 years? Then we might be better able to think about the 'average maintenance fee' that we carry. I think it is perfectly fine to let a few scopes languish in some peoples garage for a few years until we have the (people) resources to to fix or referbish them. Then this asset (which cost us nothing) is not costing us anything to 'keep on the shelf'. It is not like we are paying commercial rates to 'store' a mirror as we refigure it! I think the # in use is a much more complicated calculation than we might really want to monitor. I have a 'storage' scope. But I certainly do use it (and I definately use it for public programs an average of one half day a month). In the past I have also used a small loaner to use when my personal scope was broke - or two big to quickly load in my car for a public party (i.e. I wouldn't have come without the loaner!) This reminds me of a recent discussion with Mike K. *Mission Statement for Loaner Program* Who Program is intended to Aid 3. Public Program Volunteers Our public programs sometimes require specialzed scopes (like a solar scope). At other times our volunteers or the school groups we support may need extra scopes to support public education. The program should support the public education mission of the SJAA. (anyway that is a first pass- a function that the program does support) Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070528/8c1b4fef/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 28 14:57:35 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 28 14:57:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] JVN's web pages (was: Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <465B2D3D.5F38@svpal.org> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <465B2D3D.5F38@svpal.org> Message-ID: <002c01c7a173$33baa750$0400a8c0@robathome> We would like to have all of the SJAA content on the SJAA server so it is modifiable by multiple people. The current server is backed up regularly. This is something that needs to be done over time. We are not going to pull everything on the server tomorrow. We will deal with the loaner program stuff first. I would like the main web page redesigned. IMHO it is difficult for someone coming onto the site to quickly find information. We can do better. At this point we are also taking our look at web hosting options. MoJo has been very generous with his server, but as the outage last week showed there is no service guarantee. Inexpensive web hosting is available from multiple companies. Our usage is different from their typical user model. Thus we may need to trade off cost vs. complexity vs. guaranteed uptime. We certainly would want to give you full access to any content moved to the SJAA site. Both of the hosts we are looking at are also accessible via simple FTP. BlueHost also has web based text editors that permit the file to be edited in place. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 15:00:22 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 15:00:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes - as assets References: Message-ID: <00d301c7a173$974ac840$91f61345@180edt> No, but I'd bet Gary could dig up the numbers. Rich, can you look up the $ we have spent in the last 3 years? Then we might be better able to think about the 'average maintenance fee' that we carry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070528/86a6438c/attachment.html From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 28 15:15:53 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 28 15:15:58 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome> Mike has aggressive return dates. That assures if there is a demand for a type of scope that everyone is gets a fair interval, then the scope changes hands. I had to wait for the 8". At the end of the loan period I had to give it up because someone else requested it. I used the "loaned within one year" benchmark because I thought it was a better measure of activity than the due date. What would be truly interesting is to find out how many of the loaned scopes have actually been used within the last 3-6 months. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 15:22:52 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 15:23:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> It also brings up the question about the reason for the loaner program. It is serving the people we think it is serving? Or, does it matter? Rich > Mike has aggressive return dates. That assures if there is a demand for a > type of scope that everyone is gets a fair interval, then the scope changes > hands. I had to wait for the 8". At the end of the loan period I had to > give it up because someone else requested it. > > I used the "loaned within one year" benchmark because I thought it was a > better measure of activity than the due date. > > What would be truly interesting is to find out how many of the loaned scopes > have actually been used within the last 3-6 months. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 28 15:38:23 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 28 15:38:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] JVN's web pages (was: Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <002c01c7a173$33baa750$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><465B2D3D.5F38@svpal.org> <002c01c7a173$33baa750$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <003501c7a178$e6a7c2d0$0400a8c0@robathome> I should add that Mike's sudden departure highlighted the problem of not having the material so multiple people can maintain. The corporation needs to keep functioning if we lose a key person. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 28 15:59:06 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 28 15:59:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts on the Ephemeris Mailing Message-ID: <003601c7a17b$cb728d80$0400a8c0@robathome> Mike's departure also creates a problem with the mailing of the Ephemeris. We did not discuss this on Saturday. I thought of two possible approaches we could use to fix this 1. Unbundle the paper Ephemeris from the basic club membership. The basic membership would drop to say $12. If you wanted a paper Ephemeris you would buy an Ephemeris subscription for say $12. S&T would be the third option. I know at least one method of handing these options on the web site. This would make the paper version of the form simpler. We would take the extra revenue generated by the subscription to have AccuPrint completely process the mailing. 2. Have the Ephemeris party on a fixed date. Now people that want to help with the Ephemeris have to be 24-hour call. That makes it hard to get volunteers. If instead we scheduled a fixed date for the mail label processing say the last Thursday in the month. That should give the Ephemeris staff and the printer enough time to do their thing. Volunteers could make long term plans to be available. The downside, of course, is that it means the Ephemeris sits at the printer or at someone's house. I don't see a need at this point to completely jettison the paper version. If you have enough staff that are willing to be on call on short notice, then we can continue to process the mailings as we have been. Someone needs to volunteer to pick up the copies and drop them off at the Post Office. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 16:13:45 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 16:14:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts on the Ephemeris Mailing References: <003601c7a17b$cb728d80$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <011c01c7a17d$d7b58550$91f61345@180edt> Hi Rob, Both of your approaches are good. Your first one is very interesting. It would be good if it would reduce handling by the SJAA. Maybe we could send them out first class? Would that reduce some of the work for the club? Thanks, Rich > Mike's departure also creates a problem with the mailing of the Ephemeris. > We did not discuss this on Saturday. > > I thought of two possible approaches we could use to fix this > > 1. Unbundle the paper Ephemeris from the basic club membership. The basic > membership would drop to say $12. If you wanted a paper Ephemeris you would > buy an Ephemeris subscription for say $12. S&T would be the third option. > > I know at least one method of handing these options on the web site. This > would make the paper version of the form simpler. > > We would take the extra revenue generated by the subscription to have > AccuPrint completely process the mailing. > > > 2. Have the Ephemeris party on a fixed date. Now people that want to help > with the Ephemeris have to be 24-hour call. That makes it hard to get > volunteers. If instead we scheduled a fixed date for the mail label > processing say the last Thursday in the month. That should give the > Ephemeris staff and the printer enough time to do their thing. Volunteers > could make long term plans to be available. > > The downside, of course, is that it means the Ephemeris sits at the printer > or at someone's house. > > > > I don't see a need at this point to completely jettison the paper version. > > If you have enough staff that are willing to be on call on short notice, > then we can continue to process the mailings as we have been. Someone needs > to volunteer to pick up the copies and drop them off at the Post Office. > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon May 28 16:27:45 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon May 28 16:27:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts on the Ephemeris Mailing In-Reply-To: <011c01c7a17d$d7b58550$91f61345@180edt> References: <003601c7a17b$cb728d80$0400a8c0@robathome> <011c01c7a17d$d7b58550$91f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <003801c7a17f$cc630b30$0400a8c0@robathome> When we looked at this before there was no advantage for us going to first class. My interpretation of the new postal rules is that they require the seals that we started adding. Otherwise, you pay a surcharge at any class of mail. If unbundling caused the paper subscriptions to drop below the minimum for bulk mail then we would not have a choice. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Mon May 28 16:40:48 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Mon May 28 16:41:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Thoughts on the Ephemeris Mailing References: <003601c7a17b$cb728d80$0400a8c0@robathome><011c01c7a17d$d7b58550$91f61345@180edt> <003801c7a17f$cc630b30$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <012801c7a181$9f30b110$91f61345@180edt> Ok, thanks! > When we looked at this before there was no advantage for us going to first > class. > > My interpretation of the new postal rules is that they require the seals > that we started adding. Otherwise, you pay a surcharge at any class of mail. > > > If unbundling caused the paper subscriptions to drop below the minimum for > bulk mail then we would not have a choice. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From craigus at rocketmail.com Mon May 28 20:48:40 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Mon May 28 20:48:49 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <308306.55708.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ***Craig's version*** Rob made a motion to approve the April meeting minutes. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ***Rob's version*** I did not make a motion to approve the April minutes and I voted against their adoption. I'd appreciate if it others could jump in so we can clear this up. I thought the group said we should approve the April minutes and then make any specific corrections in a separate motion. ***Additional note about April minutes that have become so contentious*** I did something a little different for the April meeting minutes as compared to the prior months/years meeting minutes. I sent a "preliminary" version of the minutes by Gary and Rob for a sanity check, and then processed their edits before sending out the minutes to the larger group in an attempt to give them a double safety check. Although it seems an illusory correlation, I can't help but wonder if this was somehow responsible for the recent debacle. --the seCraigtary ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:25:19 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes I did not make a motion to approve the April minutes and I voted against their adoption. Houge is misspelled in the hosting section. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue May 29 03:17:15 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue May 29 03:16:14 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes - as assets In-Reply-To: <00d301c7a173$974ac840$91f61345@180edt> References: <00d301c7a173$974ac840$91f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <465BFDAB.2050607@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > No, but I'd bet Gary could dig up the numbers. > >> Rich, can you look up the $ we have spent in the last 3 years? Then >> we might be better able to think about the 'average maintenance fee' >> that we carry. Telescope expenses: 2/15/03 Bob Havner telescope supplies -110.27 10/1/05 Gary Mitchell repair of scope 43 -9.73 6/10/06 Craig Scull 1/2 of stolen finder -43.05 11/5/06 SJAA digital micrometer -50.00 ------------ TOTAL 11/13/02 - 5/21/07 -213.05 That last item probably should be under the ATM category since it was purchased (at our swap meet) for a mirror tester. This tells us that either the loaner program is real cheap or we haven't been very vigorous about maintenance. I understand our solar scope has needed repair for several months. That one may not be a cheap repair, but I believe is well worth it. And we have the money. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue May 29 03:21:22 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue May 29 03:20:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome> <00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> Message-ID: <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > > It also brings up the question about the reason for the loaner program. > It is serving the people we think it is serving? Or, does it matter? > > Rich > As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter. The SJAA has scopes available for members to borrow. That's it. It's a nice perq for being a member. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 29 06:43:26 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue May 29 06:43:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <308306.55708.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <308306.55708.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c7a1f7$56150280$0400a8c0@robathome> Your sending out a draft was quite useful. I already apologized in my soliloquy that I did not catch the error and took full responsibility for it. When I tried to amend your draft before the meeting people objected. During the meeting we discussed putting my version in as a minority report. That seemed a tad pedantic to me. We just voted with myself in the minority. Since the minutes are usually passed with no objections, I assumed you just cut and pasted for the may minutes. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 29 09:15:04 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue May 29 09:15:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes - as assets In-Reply-To: <465BFDAB.2050607@aenet.net> References: <00d301c7a173$974ac840$91f61345@180edt> <465BFDAB.2050607@aenet.net> Message-ID: <005c01c7a20c$852525e0$0400a8c0@robathome> This does not include some of the donations that I have made. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Tue May 29 10:02:07 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue May 29 10:02:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes - as assets References: <00d301c7a173$974ac840$91f61345@180edt> <465BFDAB.2050607@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000501c7a213$17bfc2b0$5652f842@180edt> > Rich N wrote: >> No, but I'd bet Gary could dig up the numbers. >> >>> Rich, can you look up the $ we have spent in the last 3 years? Then >>> we might be better able to think about the 'average maintenance fee' >>> that we carry. > > Telescope expenses: > > 2/15/03 Bob Havner telescope supplies -110.27 > 10/1/05 Gary Mitchell repair of scope 43 -9.73 > 6/10/06 Craig Scull 1/2 of stolen finder -43.05 > 11/5/06 SJAA digital micrometer -50.00 > > ------------ > TOTAL 11/13/02 - 5/21/07 -213.05 > > That last item probably should be under the ATM category > since it was purchased (at our swap meet) for a mirror tester. > > This tells us that either the loaner program is real cheap or > we haven't been very vigorous about maintenance. > > I understand our solar scope has needed repair for several > months. That one may not be a cheap repair, but I believe > is well worth it. And we have the money. > > Gary Thanks very much, Gary! Rich From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue May 29 10:30:21 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue May 29 10:55:31 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> Message-ID: <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> The program is an excellent program that I have personally benefited from. We should now work to make it better. This is all going to require effort and money. The scopes we have in the inventory are all (or mostly donations). We did not acquire them by any process of sitting down and objectively figuring out what the program should have. There are many real gems in the inventory. Others had their day, but that day has past. Others could use some TLC. Being a glass half-full person, I look on this as an opportunity. We should use this opportunity to look and see where we need to prune and need to invest. We also need to find a home for the equipment Mike is bringing on June 8th. If someone does not volunteer to house it we are going to have to get a storage locker. Rob Hawley From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Tue May 29 11:00:52 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Tue May 29 10:58:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <465C6A54.6080109@resource-intl.com> Kudos to you Rob, for the direction you are going on this. Mark Rob Hawley wrote: > The program is an excellent program that I have personally benefited from. > We should now work to make it better. This is all going to require effort > and money. > > The scopes we have in the inventory are all (or mostly donations). We did > not acquire them by any process of sitting down and objectively figuring out > what the program should have. There are many real gems in the inventory. > Others had their day, but that day has past. Others could use some TLC. > Being a glass half-full person, I look on this as an opportunity. We should > use this opportunity to look and see where we need to prune and need to > invest. > > > We also need to find a home for the equipment Mike is bringing on June 8th. > If someone does not volunteer to house it we are going to have to get a > storage locker. > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Tue May 29 11:27:09 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Tue May 29 11:24:33 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <465C6A54.6080109@resource-intl.com> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465C6A54.6080109@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <465C707D.2070304@resource-intl.com> BTW.... it should not go without mentioning that *this* is exactly the direction Rich Neuschaefer has been pushing the board to take for at least a year. I hope that with Rob's support, Rich's ideas will come to fruition. Thanks, especially to Rich. Good going SJAA, this is an excellent project for the club. Mark Wagner wrote: > > Kudos to you Rob, for the direction you are going on this. > > Mark > > > Rob Hawley wrote: >> The program is an excellent program that I have personally benefited >> from. >> We should now work to make it better. This is all going to require >> effort >> and money. >> >> The scopes we have in the inventory are all (or mostly donations). >> We did >> not acquire them by any process of sitting down and objectively >> figuring out >> what the program should have. There are many real gems in the >> inventory. >> Others had their day, but that day has past. Others could use some TLC. >> Being a glass half-full person, I look on this as an opportunity. We >> should >> use this opportunity to look and see where we need to prune and need to >> invest. >> >> >> We also need to find a home for the equipment Mike is bringing on >> June 8th. >> If someone does not volunteer to house it we are going to have to get a >> storage locker. >> >> >> Rob Hawley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > From craigus at rocketmail.com Tue May 29 11:59:06 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Tue May 29 11:59:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the hook, " etc. Message-ID: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, great idea all. Once we get things going I recommend we pitch this as a resource for the bay area astronomical community. (re)introducing the program to the major mail lists in the area might get some people's attention and also increase our membership. There are a lot of "lurkers" on these email lists who are armchair astronomers, and I'll bet some of them might be interested in the loaner program if they knew it existed, and if the scopes were interesting to them (which may or may not still be an open question worthy of some conversations with newcomers to test the waters, interest levels, and scope). Suggestions to the great thinking going on: --I think we need to get inside the mind of the newcomer and offer them what they are looking for, or something close in the inventory. I think our current inventory of scopes may not even match what the newcomer thinks a telescope is. A lot of newcomers haver never even heard of reflectors. Perhaps also by getting inside the mind of the newcomer, we will find that they need a little assistance and perhaps need mentoring? If so, that would suggest that each loaner telescope has a "buddy" assigned to it, so that when it gets loaned, the newcomer immediately has someone they can call for questions. brainstorming, Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Wagner To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:27:09 AM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes BTW.... it should not go without mentioning that *this* is exactly the direction Rich Neuschaefer has been pushing the board to take for at least a year. I hope that with Rob's support, Rich's ideas will come to fruition. Thanks, especially to Rich. Good going SJAA, this is an excellent project for the club. Mark Wagner wrote: > > Kudos to you Rob, for the direction you are going on this. > > Mark > > > Rob Hawley wrote: >> The program is an excellent program that I have personally benefited >> from. >> We should now work to make it better. This is all going to require >> effort >> and money. >> >> The scopes we have in the inventory are all (or mostly donations). >> We did >> not acquire them by any process of sitting down and objectively >> figuring out >> what the program should have. There are many real gems in the >> inventory. >> Others had their day, but that day has past. Others could use some TLC. >> Being a glass half-full person, I look on this as an opportunity. We >> should >> use this opportunity to look and see where we need to prune and need to >> invest. >> >> >> We also need to find a home for the equipment Mike is bringing on >> June 8th. >> If someone does not volunteer to house it we are going to have to get a >> storage locker. >> >> >> Rob Hawley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Tue May 29 12:38:58 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Tue May 29 12:36:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Re: Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the hook, " etc. In-Reply-To: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <465C8152.5070502@resource-intl.com> Craig Scull wrote: > this as a resource for the bay area astronomical community. > Exactly. > Perhaps also by getting inside the mind of the newcomer, we will find that they need a little assistance and perhaps need mentoring? If so, that would suggest that each loaner telescope has a "buddy" assigned to it, so that when it gets loaned, the newcomer immediately has someone they can call for questions. > Some of the real positive experiences I had with the SJAA was helping newcomers at Houge Park, when they'd pick up a loaner scope and not know what to do with it. Years ago, Nilesh Shah borrowed a 6" Dob and I had arranged to show him how to star hop, which we did at Houge. He picked up on it right away, and has been enjoying observing for many years now. Same with Kristi?.... maybe Mike can help on this one.... a woman came to Houge to pick up an 8" or 10" Dob from Mike, and wanted some guidance on how to use it, and find things. Mike and I helped her, and she had such a good experience with a little help that she attended SSP, and is probably signed up to GSSP this year. Mentoring can be very simple, very effective, and done at Houge, Coyote, Coe, or other local sites. Good idea. From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 30 05:04:08 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed May 30 05:03:55 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <465D6838.1030808@aenet.net> Rob Hawley wrote: > We also need to find a home for the equipment Mike is bringing on June 8th. > If someone does not volunteer to house it we are going to have to get a > storage locker. What equipment, specifically? According to the list in the May Ephemeris, Mike only has an 8" Dob and the solar scope. If it will help, I'll take the solar scope. (I'd like to look it over anyway, see if I can learn what the problem seems to be.) One other thing... Jim Van Nuland transferred a Coronado PST to me last week so I could give it to Mike at Houge, but obviously that didn't happen. I didn't find a scope number on it, nor do I see it on the list. Does anyone know what the story is with this one? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed May 30 05:05:22 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed May 30 05:04:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the hook, " etc. In-Reply-To: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <465D6882.7070607@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: > (re)introducing the program to the major mail lists in the area might > get some people's attention and also increase our membership. That's fine, but I think we need to use caution. I'm a little worried about attracting people who may only be interested in getting their hands on a free scope. I understand we already have one that we can't track down. > that would suggest that each loaner telescope has a "buddy" assigned > to it, so that when it gets loaned, the newcomer immediately has > someone they can call for questions. That's not a bad idea. Another idea is to be sure we have an info packet with each scope. As far as I know, Mike always simply handed a scope over to whomever borrowed one--no instructions. Is that true? If so, that's unforgivable for a program that's supposed to help beginners. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Wed May 30 07:35:26 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Wed May 30 05:38:36 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465D6838.1030808@aenet.net> Message-ID: <465D8BAE.445B@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote: > One other thing... > Jim Van Nuland transferred a Coronado PST to me last week so I > could give it to Mike at Houge, but obviously that didn't happen. > I didn't find a scope number on it, nor do I see it on the list. > Does anyone know what the story is with this one? Yes -- the PST belongs to Mike, not SJAA. The mount belongs to SJAA, and is the one used with the club H-a scope. I recognize the tape on it. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From mark.wagner at resource-intl.com Wed May 30 06:07:35 2007 From: mark.wagner at resource-intl.com (Mark Wagner) Date: Wed May 30 06:08:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the hook, " etc. In-Reply-To: <465D6882.7070607@aenet.net> References: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <465D6882.7070607@aenet.net> Message-ID: <465D7717.4060206@resource-intl.com> Gary Mitchell wrote: > As far as I know, Mike always simply handed a scope over to whomever > borrowed one--no instructions. Is that true? I can only speak to the last time I saw Mike transfer a scope, which was last year before SSP. Mike gave a Dob to Kristi Whitfield, then instructed her on collimating it, using the finder, different eyepieces, and star hopping. Mark From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed May 30 19:22:42 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Wed May 30 19:22:48 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]What Mike has In-Reply-To: <465D7717.4060206@resource-intl.com> References: <67091.21671.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com><465D6882.7070607@aenet.net> <465D7717.4060206@resource-intl.com> Message-ID: <016a01c7a32a$91caa800$0400a8c0@robathome> What Mike has 15 8" f/9 Homemade Dob Mike Koop 16 60mm H-Alpha Solar Scope Mike Koop Repair I also think he has the carcass of scope #27. I am in the process of repatriating all of the loaner program content to the SJAA web page. I have all of the files, but I am waiting for Paul to fix a permission problem. Some of the other information I got from Mike's site will allow us to do a theoritical inventory of what is with what scope. Hopefully Mike brings the sign out paperwork with him since those are contracts. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed May 30 21:50:32 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Thu May 31 00:59:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]What Mike has Message-ID: <166332.40452.qm@web54509.mail.yahoo.com> Lee was kind enough to store the tube and possibly more of #27. ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:22:42 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard]What Mike has What Mike has 15 8" f/9 Homemade Dob Mike Koop 16 60mm H-Alpha Solar Scope Mike Koop Repair I also think he has the carcass of scope #27. I am in the process of repatriating all of the loaner program content to the SJAA web page. I have all of the files, but I am waiting for Paul to fix a permission problem. Some of the other information I got from Mike's site will allow us to do a theoritical inventory of what is with what scope. Hopefully Mike brings the sign out paperwork with him since those are contracts. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 31 09:34:59 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 31 10:03:28 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program information now hosted on SJAA web site Message-ID: <019301c7a3a1$a1b4eec0$0400a8c0@robathome> I transferred all of the web content from Mike's site to sjaa.net this morning. One problem I encountered was that none of my editing tools (except a straight text editor) like the JavaScript we use to disguise our email addresses. It kept stripping off the at the end of the disguised mailto: aref. TAC uses a different mechanism using CGI. When you click the button it generates a web page instead of using mailto:. I will test a cgi that sets up links for all of the JavaScript accounts. We can evaluate whether we want to switch to that method. As I said the current method requires a pass with a simple text editor once someone edits an html with either Pagemill or Mozilla. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 31 10:10:52 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 31 11:50:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program information now hosted on SJAA web site References: <019301c7a3a1$a1b4eec0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <000301c7a3a6$a51390d0$21f61345@180edt> Thanks, Rob! Rich >I transferred all of the web content from Mike's site to sjaa.net this > morning. > > One problem I encountered was that none of my editing tools (except a > straight text editor) like the JavaScript we use to disguise our email > addresses. It kept stripping off the at the end of the disguised > mailto: aref. > > TAC uses a different mechanism using CGI. When you click the button it > generates a web page instead of using mailto:. I will test a cgi that sets > up links for all of the JavaScript accounts. We can evaluate whether we > want to switch to that method. As I said the current method requires a pass > with a simple text editor once someone edits an html with either Pagemill or > Mozilla. > > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu May 31 01:43:33 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu May 31 12:31:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes In-Reply-To: <465D8BAE.445B@svpal.org> References: <596852.46088.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com><002101c7a158$24db8a30$91f61345@180edt> <003401c7a175$c2302850$0400a8c0@robathome><00e801c7a176$bbfc3770$91f61345@180edt> <465BFEA2.3060505@aenet.net> <007401c7a217$08e8f1e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <465D6838.1030808@aenet.net> <465D8BAE.445B@svpal.org> Message-ID: <465E8AB5.4090202@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Gary Mitchell wrote: > > >>One other thing... >>Jim Van Nuland transferred a Coronado PST to me last week so I >>could give it to Mike at Houge, but obviously that didn't happen. >>I didn't find a scope number on it, nor do I see it on the list. >>Does anyone know what the story is with this one? > > > Yes -- the PST belongs to Mike, not SJAA. The mount belongs to SJAA, > and is the one used with the club H-a scope. I recognize the tape on > it. That'll work out fine, since I already volunteered to take the solar scope anyway. It would have been something of a shock to get the scope and find the mount missing. :) Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Thu May 31 12:50:37 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Thu May 31 12:54:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program information now hosted on SJAA web site Message-ID: <988711.43824.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> There are many methods to hide email addresses from spambots--none of them 100% successful. If you want me to send you graphic images of the email addresses, I could do that. I'm sitting in here in front of PhotoShop all day lately doing graphic work. Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley To: Sjaaboard Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:34:59 AM Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program information now hosted on SJAA web site I transferred all of the web content from Mike's site to sjaa.net this morning. One problem I encountered was that none of my editing tools (except a straight text editor) like the JavaScript we use to disguise our email addresses. It kept stripping off the at the end of the disguised mailto: aref. TAC uses a different mechanism using CGI. When you click the button it generates a web page instead of using mailto:. I will test a cgi that sets up links for all of the JavaScript accounts. We can evaluate whether we want to switch to that method. As I said the current method requires a pass with a simple text editor once someone edits an html with either Pagemill or Mozilla. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 31 14:01:35 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 31 14:01:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard]Masking email addresses In-Reply-To: <988711.43824.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <988711.43824.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c7a3c6$e05f9100$0400a8c0@robathome> After I wrote this email I thought of a small change to the existing approach which will make it editor friendly. I The TAC web page approach is better, but I will not pursue it unless there is interest to do so. I am sure the TAC guys will furnish the necessary PERL scripts. My stuff is also mission critical. At least once per month I am going to back up the membership database to a non-public accessible part of the server. I will still mail copies to any one with a need for it upon request. Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Thu May 31 14:52:23 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Thu May 31 14:52:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Rob vacation June 19-29 Message-ID: <000c01c7a3cd$f8c742e0$0400a8c0@robathome> I will be on vacation from June 19 to the 29th. I plan to be back before the board meeting. I need someone to cover for me for the Houge Park star party on the 22nd. This includes sending out the reminder email on March 20th. Someone will also need to send out a reminder of the general meeting on the 27. I plan to take a laptop, but I will not be spending the time glued to it. I have no idea what kind of internet access will be available. When I get closer to leaving, I will send you an email address that you can SMS me. I will also try to get a draft of the agenda out before the meeting. At this point the list of items is Loaner Program Replacement for Mike Goals Plan to look at scopes Ephemeris How did the mailing go? Do we need to think of a different approach? Web Hosting I will publish the plan I worked out with MoJo Before I leave. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 31 18:40:22 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 31 18:41:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: I made a motion to to approve the April minutes (as printed). Craig seconded. This did not have Robs slightly altered version - so he voted in the negative. BTW - it is generally fine to just note, 6 for, 1 abstain, 1 nay. If a director wants a nay recorded - the secretary should record it! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/3926b852/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 31 18:34:36 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 31 18:48:34 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes Message-ID: Serving the people (i.e.) the members of the SJAA. That would be good enough for me! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/af337556/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 31 20:26:48 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 31 20:27:36 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the ho... Message-ID: >Just handed over NOT TRUE. I have gotten a manual with each of the scopes I have borrowed over the years. I didn't get instruction (not a beginner after 40 years!) Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/b8df71ce/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 31 20:55:28 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 31 20:55:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes References: Message-ID: <001d01c7a400$b21b5740$a75cf842@180edt> But what level of service? Should we have a bunch of Starmaster Dobs and AP refractors? Rich Serving the people (i.e.) the members of the SJAA. That would be good enough for me! Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/bdc7671e/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu May 31 20:33:38 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu May 31 20:56:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the ho... Message-ID: > can only speak to the last time I saw Mike transfer a scope, which was >last year before SSP. Mike gave a Dob to Kristi Whitfield, then >instructed her on collimating it, using the finder, different eyepieces, >and star hopping. > >Mark Correct! Sorry Gary and Rich, this type of misunderstanding of the love and effort Mike constantly showed the users of this service was what IMO caused him to 'hand in the keys'. Someone with the finesse and dedication of Mike's is needed to run the program as well as it was going (even over the last year). Steven benchmarking - what other loaner programs - in ANY organization is what you would consider 'world class'? I think we may have to go out of astronomy to find a good model. There are some great 'beginner classes' in other clubs that we can benchmark. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/6a88fa45/attachment-0001.html From rnapo at znet.com Thu May 31 21:21:28 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Thu May 31 21:21:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner scopes: mentorship, unexpected scope choices, "the ho... References: Message-ID: <003501c7a404$5412a140$a75cf842@180edt> Steven, are you trolling? I've never said or implied Mike was doing a bad job, and I don't think he was doing a bad job. He has said many times he works long hours. He has also said many times that the loaner program has several scopes that need either fixing or replacing. My asking to look at the loaner scopes to see which ones are keepers, ones than need fixing, and which ones should be sold and maybe replaced, was simply an honest effort to help Mike and the club. My questioning the Albert scope deal was also not a knock on Mike. But, as one of the directors I think I have a right to question what the club is paying for. Even Albert and Rob felt making a 13.1 inch travel scope was a bad idea as a loaner scope. Rich > can only speak to the last time I saw Mike transfer a scope, which was >last year before SSP. Mike gave a Dob to Kristi Whitfield, then >instructed her on collimating it, using the finder, different eyepieces, >and star hopping. > >Mark Correct! Sorry Gary and Rich, this type of misunderstanding of the love and effort Mike constantly showed the users of this service was what IMO caused him to 'hand in the keys'. Someone with the finesse and dedication of Mike's is needed to run the program as well as it was going (even over the last year). Steven benchmarking - what other loaner programs - in ANY organization is what you would consider 'world class'? I think we may have to go out of astronomy to find a good model. There are some great 'beginner classes' in other clubs that we can benchmark. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070531/b020c8c8/attachment.html