From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 1 01:01:36 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 1 00:59:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Review of Mike's stuff In-Reply-To: <7c81f8eb4958e7ecea3c12aff8b1340c@znet.com> References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net> <7c81f8eb4958e7ecea3c12aff8b1340c@znet.com> Message-ID: <46875F60.1040501@aenet.net> Dave North wrote: > Gary: > >> I just looked at the board traffic prior to your resignation and >> I sure couldn't see anything there that justifies such anger. > > > I was not at all surprised when he got cranked up. At more than one > point, I wondered why he put up with it. Perhaps you'd care to quote the passage in question? (or at least mention which one it was) I sure didn't see anything myself that would justify getting seriously cranked up. > So we clearly see that exchange from very different perspectives. > For example: you may not have meant it, but the last part of your note > looks suspiciously like a typical bureaucratic "shut up." > > Dave Not so much a "shut up," I'm just getting a little PO'd myself. It was *not* a smooth transition. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 1 01:04:23 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 1 01:02:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Review of Mike's stuff In-Reply-To: <20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com> References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net> <20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <46876007.8000209@aenet.net> Akkana Peck wrote: > Gary Mitchell writes: > >>I just looked at the board traffic prior to your resignation and >>I sure couldn't see anything there that justifies such anger. >>You didn't jump in with any information about the loaner program >>nor correct any assumptions or speculations, you just let people >>go on questioning in the dark. > > > A lurker's perspective: > > I'm not sure he had much chance to jump in. The thread started on > Wednesday night (with Mark suggesting the loaner program was a > failure and needed to be reevaluated) and then there was a flood of > messages over Thursday, some continuing to question the success of > the loaner program, a few defending it, some demanding an inventory, > and some that seemed to suggest there were back-room deals going on > involving a bad mirror and a scope offer from Albert. Mike probably > got home from work and read them all in one batch. What was he > supposed to think? Well, Mike said *he* was being accused of being a failure. As you noted, Mark was talking about the loaner program. I think part of the problem is that Mike kept the loaner program to himself. He wouldn't keep us informed. All we had to go on is the Ephemeris listing. Based just on that, the turn-over did seem low. That's what Mark was pointing at, at least it seemed pretty clear to me that's what Mark was talking about. But Mike apparently took that as an attack on him personally. > I obviously can't speak for Mike (and haven't spoken with him since > the blow-up) but I can't say I was surprised when I read his > resignation letter. I would have been pretty mad in his place. I can't speak for Mike either, but if I were apparently being attacked, I'd go back and carefully re-read the message to avoid any unintended misunderstandings. And then ask for clarification, (probably starting with: "now, just a minute... what exactly are you say'n?") But Mike said nothing. So, what were WE supposed to think? I went back myself and looked for what Mike told me was said about him, but could not find it, with one exception: Rob did say something about micro-managing. Mike likes to be in control, so does Rob. So, it's no surprise that there was a little friction about managing when they changed hands. But that had nothing to do with the loaner program, that was about running Cal-Star, and Rob was in charge of Cal-Star, not Mike. > I hope Mike stays in the club. Apparently not. He said so. > He's given a lot to it over the years. > I think he's been running that loaner program as long as I've been > a member! Ten years, he said. > No doubt there are things that could have been improved > about the loaner program, but I didn't see a lot of people lining > up to volunteer to help run it ... or maybe that was happening at > board meetings, just not on the mailing list? That was part of my point--Mike wouldn't let anyone else in. He wouldn't tell me what was in the loaner program, he wouldn't even answer my question as to whether the list in the Ephemeris was accurate and complete. And I'm supposed to know that--the bylaws charge the treasurer with keeping the property list of the club. I asked for years for that info, he just wouldn't. So, the way I see it, Mike brought much of that questioning of the loaner program on himself. Remember, the board is ultimately responsible for all club activities, that's their job. If the board questioned the treasury, (and they have every right to do so), I'd hold my ground and back up everything with the records. I sure wouldn't throw up my hands and run away saying they're picking on me. But maybe my skin is thicker than Mike's. Gary From rnapo at znet.com Sun Jul 1 09:46:45 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun Jul 1 09:47:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program... References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net><20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com> <46876007.8000209@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000a01c7bbff$69cd5f30$3051f842@180edt> Hi folks, After the Board meeting last night I was thinking about Rob's offer to help with the record keeping end of of the loaner program. If he will handle that part of the program, I'll be happy to do the other part of the loaner program. I can hold a few scopes at my house. I'll be happy help people kearn how to use the scopes. Although, I'll need a little training in using the GOTO models. Sincerely, Rich From sjaa at robhawley.net Sun Jul 1 10:16:13 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sun Jul 1 10:16:07 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program... In-Reply-To: <000a01c7bbff$69cd5f30$3051f842@180edt> References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net><20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com><46876007.8000209@aenet.net> <000a01c7bbff$69cd5f30$3051f842@180edt> Message-ID: <004b01c7bc03$87561d40$0400a8c0@robathome> > although, I'll need a little training in using the GOTO models. I can help with certainly the Meade scopes. Rob From sjaa at robhawley.net Sun Jul 1 10:24:44 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sun Jul 1 10:24:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Domain registration for sjaa.net Message-ID: <004c01c7bc04$b7e0e9d0$0400a8c0@robathome> Gary remembered correctly that we purchased the domain for 11 years. Genuity DSL is the registrar and is whom we will have to deal with to change the DNS. MoJo is currently the admin (i.e. the person that manages the account). MoJo will have to contact them and either give us permission to edit our account or give us a magic code that allows BlueHost to make changes. In the former case we will have to pay the $25 to change the admin contact. In the latter BlueHost presumably becomes the admin. Either gives us an acceptable result. Registrant: San Jose Astronomical Association P.O. Box 28243 San Jose, CA 95159-8243 US Domain Name: SJAA.NET Administrative Contact, Technical Contact: Jones, Morris mojo@WHITEOAKS.COM 106 S. Mountain Ave. Unit E Monrovia, CA 91016 US 626-359-5323 fax: 123 123 1234 Record expires on 08-Jan-2011. Record created on 08-Jan-2000. Database last updated on 1-Jul-2007 13:15:04 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.WHITEOAKS.COM 66.15.94.96 NS.FREERADIO.COM 207.111.214.244 NS.HOGRANCH.COM Network Whois record Queried whois.arin.net with "!NET-66-15-0-0-1"... CustName: Genuity DSL Address: 150 Cambridge Park Drive City: Cambridge StateProv: MA PostalCode: 02138 Country: US RegDate: 2004-02-26 Updated: 2005-02-17 Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Sun Jul 1 11:06:30 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun Jul 1 11:06:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program... References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net><20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com><46876007.8000209@aenet.net><000a01c7bbff$69cd5f30$3051f842@180edt> <004b01c7bc03$87561d40$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001201c7bc0a$8da6c440$3051f842@180edt> >> although, I'll need a little training in using the GOTO models. > > > I can help with certainly the Meade scopes. > > Rob > Great! Thanks, Rich From sjaa at robhawley.net Sun Jul 1 12:11:20 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sun Jul 1 12:11:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Loaner program... In-Reply-To: <001201c7bc0a$8da6c440$3051f842@180edt> References: <20070626233545.djsmvhtdwk8gws0o@69.89.31.76> <20070629184426.E24287@koopm.best.vwh.net> <46865CF8.2000103@aenet.net><20070630174513.GC11441@shallowsky.com><46876007.8000209@aenet.net><000a01c7bbff$69cd5f30$3051f842@180edt><004b01c7bc03$87561d40$0400a8c0@robathome> <001201c7bc0a$8da6c440$3051f842@180edt> Message-ID: <005001c7bc13$9d861880$0400a8c0@robathome> In fact, it sounds like the beginnings of a plan to restart the entire system. Let's wait until the next board meeting so everyone can vote. Per the vote last night I will send an email to the non-members this week asking them to either rejoin or to schedule return of the scopes. Once the conversion to BlueHost is complete we can start using the server as a place to store club records (e.g. backup copies of the membership database, loan records, quicken file, etc). We can put them in a part of the server that requires authenticated FTP access. This will eliminate some of the problems we have recently had with information not being generally available. Anyone that needs access can get their own FTP account. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 1 17:13:41 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 1 17:12:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Message-ID: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net> I forgot to mention this at the last board meeting... S&T has an article about the up coming lunar eclipse in August. Should we do something at Houge? It doesn't have to be a big deal, just like a regular Houge star party. Gary From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jul 2 01:01:32 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon Jul 2 01:15:19 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net> Message-ID: <4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote: > S&T has an article about the up coming lunar eclipse in August. > Should we do something at Houge? The partial phase begins at 1:51 am PDT on a Thursday. Too late for a public event. IMHO. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 01:36:39 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 01:34:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net> <4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> Message-ID: <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Gary Mitchell wrote: > > >>S&T has an article about the up coming lunar eclipse in August. >>Should we do something at Houge? > > > The partial phase begins at 1:51 am PDT on a Thursday. Too late for a > public event. IMHO. Most astronomical events don't know about such concerns of us humans. ;) Why not have Houge reserved anyway? Maybe some of us with lots of trees around our house would like to go somewhere with better horizons. It couldn't hurt. Rob: has the new reservation been submitted yet? How about adding this too, if possible. (maybe call it the evening of Aug. 27). 73, Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 02:05:25 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 02:03:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff Message-ID: <468A1155.1000903@aenet.net> We have several boxes of mirror making supplies temporarily stored at Houge. The folks at Chabot are interested in some of it, if not all. We have small and medium pyrex mirror blanks, tools, grits, etc. I was not involved in the purchase of our supplies, Mike was. I have a poor idea of what would be a fair price. Any suggestions? I'll do an inventory during the next mirror making workshop, (7:30 PM July 5). If anyone is interested--especially someone knowledgeable on these things, you're welcome to stop by. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 07:18:09 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 07:18:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net> <4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net> Message-ID: <00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> I will ask, but if since our application was already approved they may require a new application. In that case I won't do anything without a board vote. My suggestion is to go to Coe or FP to observe this. I don't see SJAA holding such an event. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 07:59:18 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 07:59:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Filling vacancies on the board Message-ID: <00e001c7bd82$bba1a6c0$0400a8c0@robathome> According to Article 3 section 17 the board can fill vacancies on the board itself. It only has to go to the membership when it fails to do so. (I added paragraph markers for clarity and removed non-applicable material). Vacancies on the Board may be filled by approval of the Board .... However, vacancies created by the removal of a director may be filled only by the approval of the members. The members of this corporation may elect a director at any time to fill any vacancy not filled by the directors. The Board of Directors shall consider a person qualified to fill a vacancy if that person has been an Active Member for one (1) year, ..., or has attended six (6) monthly board meetings. A person elected to fill a vacancy as provided by this Section shall hold office for the remainder of the office's term or until his or her death, resignation or removal from office. So we could vote to accept Robert's offer at the next board meeting. If we don't to that, then I need to put out a notice of election at least 10 days before the next meeting. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 12:55:44 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 12:55:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate Message-ID: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> The wife of a deceased astronomer contacted me. Her late husband acquired a 30" mirror from Lockheed. She tried selling it on EBay, but someone who examined the mirror said that it was not figured for a telescope. She was not able to provide any further details or was able to say if the mirror was aluminized. I suggested she try listing it on AstroMart. Gary suggested we should try to get her to donate the mirror to us and we could then sell it. The mirror was not specifically offered to us. Any donations require the approval of the board. Given that we are already trying to deal with storage issues, I would oppose trying to convince the widow to donate the mirror to us. I would like to make some useful suggestions of how she can dispose of the mirror. Does anyone know of contacts at UC-Berkeley or Lick that might be interested? Rob Hawley From leebizz at aol.com Tue Jul 3 13:13:32 2007 From: leebizz at aol.com (leebizz@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 3 13:13:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <8C98BC5C37A066A-9EC-2B29@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, ???? As I am a telescope maker, I have a mild interest in the 30" mirror.? It would be interesting to know details.? Was it figured to a very deep curve or spherical or ?? Perhaps I would be interested in buying it from her for my own use.? Perhaps I should talk to her. ???????????? Lee -----Original Message----- From: Rob Hawley-SJAA To: Sjaaboard Sent: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:55 pm Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate The wife of a deceased astronomer contacted me. Her late husband acquired a 30" mirror from Lockheed. She tried selling it on EBay, but someone who examined the mirror said that it was not figured for a telescope. She was not able to provide any further details or was able to say if the mirror was aluminized. I suggested she try listing it on AstroMart. Gary suggested we should try to get her to donate the mirror to us and we could then sell it. The mirror was not specifically offered to us. Any donations require the approval of the board. Given that we are already trying to deal with storage issues, I would oppose trying to convince the widow to donate the mirror to us. I would like to make some useful suggestions of how she can dispose of the mirror. Does anyone know of contacts at UC-Berkeley or Lick that might be interested? Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070703/36a772dd/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 15:59:09 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 15:57:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net> <4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net> <00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > I will ask, but if since our application was already approved they may > require a new application. In that case I won't do anything without a board > vote. Tell them we won't be using the building, just the parking lot. If that would help any. > My suggestion is to go to Coe or FP to observe this. I don't see SJAA > holding such an event. That's overkill for a lunar eclipse. You don't need dark skies, just reasonable horizons. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 16:01:21 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:01:17 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net><4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net><00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net> Message-ID: <00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> So we would not be shutting off the lights? Rob Hawley >-----Original Message----- >From: Gary Mitchell [mailto:wb6yru@aenet.net] >Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:59 PM >To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members >Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours > >Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: >> I will ask, but if since our application was already approved they may >> require a new application. In that case I won't do anything without a >board >> vote. > >Tell them we won't be using the building, just the parking lot. >If that would help any. > >> My suggestion is to go to Coe or FP to observe this. I don't see SJAA >> holding such an event. > >That's overkill for a lunar eclipse. You don't need dark skies, >just reasonable horizons. > >Gary > >_______________________________________________ >SJAABoard mailing list >SJAABoard@sjaa.net >http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 16:26:38 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:24:19 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > The wife of a deceased astronomer contacted me. Her late husband acquired a > 30" mirror from Lockheed. She tried selling it on EBay, but someone who > examined the mirror said that it was not figured for a telescope. She was > not able to provide any further details or was able to say if the mirror was > aluminized. > > I suggested she try listing it on AstroMart. > > Gary suggested we should try to get her to donate the mirror to us and we > could then sell it. The mirror was not specifically offered to us. That's not what you told me. You said it was offered to us as a donation. > Any > donations require the approval of the board. Given that we are already > trying to deal with storage issues, I would oppose trying to convince the > widow to donate the mirror to us. Donations don't require board approval, but in this case maybe, since some expense could be involved (storage, transport, etc.) Ya know what, I'll store it for the club myself! 30" isn't *that* big. Group 70 paid $25,000 for their blank. This may not be worth as much of course, but let's not be so hasty to throw it away. > I would like to make some useful suggestions of how she can dispose of the > mirror. Does anyone know of contacts at UC-Berkeley or Lick that might be > interested? If she is willing to donate it to us, I think you're making a very big mistake, Rob. This thing could be worth thousands to the club. Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 16:28:26 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:28:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Membership report for June Message-ID: <010101c7bdc9$db446fc0$0400a8c0@robathome> Well sort of. The report date is 6/30 for the purpose of reporting who is a current member, but includes my 7/2 processing of the mail. Note the 14 expirations for Jun 07. Some of these people responded to my 7/2 "Expired" message by paying. Others responded that they are moving out of the area and letting their subscription lapse. ----------------------What Month do memberships expire---------------------- Report Date 6/30/2007 May-07 7 Jun-07 14 Jul-07 16 Aug-07 24 Sep-07 17 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 18 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 16 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 12 May-08 18 Jun-08 50 Jul-08 9 more than 13 months 11 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 276 email delivery 38 Labels Generated 279 S&T Members 167 New Members since last meeting 10 current + complementary 310 ---------------------Membership Retention----------------------- paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 22 2006 58 49 84% 2005 64 30 47% 2004 68** 21 31% 2003 61** 26 43% 2002 26** 15 58% < 2002 148** 113 76% ** based on 12/04 total 276 At this point the majority of the 14 not yet renewed members are from the < 2002 group. 2004 contributes most of the rest. As I said some of these renewed so these numbers are subject to change. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 3 16:29:49 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:29:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <000f01c7bdca$0d12d550$87f71345@180edt> If it is donated to the SJAA then we get into the storage issue. How much does this thing weigh? It would be nice to help the lady but I don't know if someone in the club has the time to deal with it. Rich > The wife of a deceased astronomer contacted me. Her late husband acquired a > 30" mirror from Lockheed. She tried selling it on EBay, but someone who > examined the mirror said that it was not figured for a telescope. She was > not able to provide any further details or was able to say if the mirror was > aluminized. > > I suggested she try listing it on AstroMart. > > Gary suggested we should try to get her to donate the mirror to us and we > could then sell it. The mirror was not specifically offered to us. Any > donations require the approval of the board. Given that we are already > trying to deal with storage issues, I would oppose trying to convince the > widow to donate the mirror to us. > > I would like to make some useful suggestions of how she can dispose of the > mirror. Does anyone know of contacts at UC-Berkeley or Lick that might be > interested? > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 3 16:30:48 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:30:56 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <8C98BC5C37A066A-9EC-2B29@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001d01c7bdca$301cb660$87f71345@180edt> Go for it, Lee! Rich Hi all, As I am a telescope maker, I have a mild interest in the 30" mirror. It would be interesting to know details. Was it figured to a very deep curve or spherical or ? Perhaps I would be interested in buying it from her for my own use. Perhaps I should talk to her. Lee -----Original Message----- From: Rob Hawley-SJAA To: Sjaaboard Sent: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:55 pm Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate The wife of a deceased astronomer contacted me. Her late husband acquired a 30" mirror from Lockheed. She tried selling it on EBay, but someone who examined the mirror said that it was not figured for a telescope. She was not able to provide any further details or was able to say if the mirror was aluminized. I suggested she try listing it on AstroMart. Gary suggested we should try to get her to donate the mirror to us and we could then sell it. The mirror was not specifically offered to us. Any donations require the approval of the board. Given that we are already trying to deal with storage issues, I would oppose trying to convince the widow to donate the mirror to us. I would like to make some useful suggestions of how she can dispose of the mirror. Does anyone know of contacts at UC-Berkeley or Lick that might be interested? Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070703/ed3d657b/attachment-0001.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 16:55:32 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 16:55:23 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net> Message-ID: <010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> >That's not what you told me. You said it was offered to us as a >donation. During the meeting I was working from my wife's notes. When I spoke to her yesterday evening I got more information which was included in my message to you at 7:24 AM and in the original to this message. Would she be willing to donate it? Maybe. She sounded pretty tired of trying to sell it. She described it as being in crates. McDonald Observatory's 30" mirror weighs 260 lbs. With the crates I would not be surprised if the box was twice that. We are assuming it is Pyrex, etc... We don't know. Our argument for donation would be more compelling if we were going to use it as opposed to sell it. Not to be pedantic but Section 6 SECTION 4. GIFTS The Board of Directors may accept on behalf of the corporation any contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the charitable or public purposes of this corporation. I interpret this as requiring board approval. Certainly on an item of this size that should be the case. Without a board vote (at least to say my interpretation is wrong) I could not make that offer on behalf of the corporation. If someone else did they risked having the board reverse them. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 18:05:19 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:03:40 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA calendar conflicts, mirror making workshop Message-ID: <468AF24F.6020703@aenet.net> I just realized we have some conflicts in the calendar: On July 21, we have the Coyote Lake star party and the mirror making workshop. Does anyone want to cover the workshop? On August 18, we have the Yosemite star party and the mirror making workshop. Does anyone want to cover the workshop? We need to try harder to avoid conflicts. The workshops on July 21 and Aug. 18 could easily have been on the previous Thursdays. The chances are fair that no one else will show up to the workshop anyway, although we do occasionally get a visitor (average one per month). Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 18:09:56 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:07:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net><4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net><00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net> <00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468AF364.5090504@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > So we would not be shutting off the lights? Sure we would. Why? Gary > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Gary Mitchell [mailto:wb6yru@aenet.net] >>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:59 PM >>To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members >>Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours >> >>Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: >> >>>I will ask, but if since our application was already approved they may >>>require a new application. In that case I won't do anything without a >> >>board >> >>>vote. >> >>Tell them we won't be using the building, just the parking lot. >>If that would help any. >> >> >>>My suggestion is to go to Coe or FP to observe this. I don't see SJAA >>>holding such an event. >> >>That's overkill for a lunar eclipse. You don't need dark skies, >>just reasonable horizons. >> >>Gary >> >>_______________________________________________ >>SJAABoard mailing list >>SJAABoard@sjaa.net >>http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 18:19:17 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:19:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA calendar conflicts, mirror making workshop In-Reply-To: <468AF24F.6020703@aenet.net> References: <468AF24F.6020703@aenet.net> Message-ID: <011101c7bdd9$57da0f90$0400a8c0@robathome> I thought we were pulling the MM from the schedule Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 18:22:56 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:22:48 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <468AF364.5090504@aenet.net> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net><4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net><00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net><00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AF364.5090504@aenet.net> Message-ID: <011201c7bdd9$da782bd0$0400a8c0@robathome> Then we should just reserve Houge. Is there more than one vote on the board to hold such an event? I have not had time to deal with this yet. I will try to get over there on Thursday or Friday. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 3 18:48:59 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:49:10 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA calendar conflicts, mirror making workshop References: <468AF24F.6020703@aenet.net> Message-ID: <003801c7bddd$7e061b60$87f71345@180edt> I don't think I'll even be in the area on those dates. Rich >I just realized we have some conflicts in the calendar: > > On July 21, we have the Coyote Lake star party and the mirror making > workshop. Does anyone want to cover the workshop? > > On August 18, we have the Yosemite star party and the mirror making > workshop. Does anyone want to cover the workshop? > > We need to try harder to avoid conflicts. The workshops on July 21 > and Aug. 18 could easily have been on the previous Thursdays. > > The chances are fair that no one else will show up to the workshop > anyway, although we do occasionally get a visitor (average one per > month). > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 3 18:52:47 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 3 18:50:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net> <010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > Not to be pedantic but > > Section 6 SECTION 4. GIFTS > The Board of Directors may accept on behalf of the corporation any > contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the charitable or public purposes > of this corporation. > > I interpret this as requiring board approval. Certainly on an item of this > size that should be the case. > There's a big difference between "may accept" and "must approve." I don't recall the board ever approving any of the great many other donations (cash or property) we've received. Even if your interpretation is correct (which I very much dispute), we've violated it so often and for so long that it has now become null and void. You can't arbitrarily pick and choose one time when a provision becomes active and ignore it the rest of the time. If a donation will cost the club something, then that's different, the board needs to approve expenditures. But in this case, I've already offered to store the thing (for free). So there isn't even that. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 3 23:53:54 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 3 23:54:40 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net><010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> Message-ID: <014801c7be08$16f24360$0400a8c0@robathome> >There's a big difference between "may accept" and "must approve." > >I don't recall the board ever approving any of the great many other >donations (cash or property) we've received. If I were an uninvolved board member I would certainly find it interesting if someone showed up at a board meeting and said "Guess what we now own a 30 inch mirror". We discussed this at the last meeting, but the resolution I proposed was too broad. We definitely need to continue this at the next board meeting. There is no downside to an unconditional cash donation. What about a donation restricted to a certain use? What about a gift that will cost thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours per year to maintain? What about someone's cast off Tascos? There comes a point where the advice and consent of the board should be required. I can even foresee cases where we should consult the full membership. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jul 4 00:29:15 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed Jul 4 00:26:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA calendar conflicts, mirror making workshop In-Reply-To: <011101c7bdd9$57da0f90$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <468AF24F.6020703@aenet.net> <011101c7bdd9$57da0f90$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468B4C4B.4010501@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > I thought we were pulling the MM from the schedule > *After* the sessions that have already been announced. I thought that was clear. How would people looking at the calendar in the Ephemeris have any idea they've been canceled? Gary From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 4 10:25:20 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Wed Jul 4 10:25:34 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations Message-ID: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I can see club donations that come up in between board meetings being generally handled this way. 1. The person originally contacted by the donor (Rob in this case) emails board describing possible donation 2. Q&A ensues to qualify the donation (wait at least 3 days so a few people can respond) 3. That person (Rob here) decides whether we will Accept, Decline, or put the donation On Hold until the next meeting or requires more discussion over email because there are questions issues etc unresolved. They email the board this decision and see if others agree. 4. If there is agreement then the donor is contacted with the outcome. Let's not get technical, we are human beings, and the board mailing list is an excellent barometer of the direction a vote would take, if a vote is needed. Here an example of how this could play out. The presence of a "deadline" is an important ingredient, as it prevents us from getting into perpetual storage predicaments. **Example** Board email discussion about 30" ensues and there seems to be no one against the donation. One member has concerns about storage, and another member quickly jumps in to say he will store the 30" for the next 6 months. We're not totally certain what we are going to do with the mirror, but we will certainly ensure it gets a home within the next 6 months, whether that be inside or outside the club. Another member is concerned that the mirror may not be of astronomical use. That member goes along with another to inspect the mirror, with the intention of accepting the mirror on the spot if it is deemed useful for astronomical uses (at least as a blank). my .02 Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley-SJAA To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 11:53:54 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations >There's a big difference between "may accept" and "must approve." > >I don't recall the board ever approving any of the great many other >donations (cash or property) we've received. If I were an uninvolved board member I would certainly find it interesting if someone showed up at a board meeting and said "Guess what we now own a 30 inch mirror". We discussed this at the last meeting, but the resolution I proposed was too broad. We definitely need to continue this at the next board meeting. There is no downside to an unconditional cash donation. What about a donation restricted to a certain use? What about a gift that will cost thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours per year to maintain? What about someone's cast off Tascos? There comes a point where the advice and consent of the board should be required. I can even foresee cases where we should consult the full membership. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070704/7cff6f48/attachment-0001.html From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Wed Jul 4 10:33:11 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Wed Jul 4 10:33:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net> <010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20070704112643.S2323@koopm.best.vwh.net> http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaa-chat/2007-April/000776.html When I first saw this mirror on Ebay, I thought it might be from Bob Madden's estate. In the early 90's, Lockheed thru Bob made an offer to the SJAA to accept the donation of two telescope mounts. They wanted to see a proposal for how they would be used. I thought that this mirror might have been part of it, possibly even donated to the club. I asked JVN if he thought that this was Bob's stuff up for auction. He did not think so. The mounts were too large to be of use for us according to those who were around at the time. From sjaa at robhawley.net Wed Jul 4 11:15:44 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Wed Jul 4 11:15:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> When I talked to the person (as opposed to reading my wife's notes from the answering machine) she primarily wanted help selling the mirror. Gary's take is she donates the mirror to us and then we sell it. That may be fine, in principle, provided we make clear that our intent is to sell and not use the mirror. In this case there seems to be some unknown factor that reduces the market for this mirror. That may have been a ploy on the part of the potential purchaser. Alternatively could be something fundamentally wrong with the mirror (e.g. it is a convex mirror). Lee was going to talk with her also. I would be interested in what she tells him. Until then I would oppose the donation. My point before is there is a point where more formality (and more heads) are required to make the decision. Rob Hawley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070704/da926c78/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Wed Jul 4 11:17:47 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Wed Jul 4 11:17:32 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] 30" Mirror from Estate In-Reply-To: <20070704112643.S2323@koopm.best.vwh.net> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome><468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net><010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> <20070704112643.S2323@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <015801c7be67$9fd98490$0400a8c0@robathome> The widow used a different last name. That is not to say you are wrong, because otherwise the circumstances are the same. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Wed Jul 4 11:31:24 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Wed Jul 4 11:31:46 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations References: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001b01c7be69$87642800$da5bf842@180edt> I like the idea of helping the lady sell the mirror, but if we become responsible for the sale, then that could have her coming back to/at us if she thinks we could have made a better deal. Rich When I talked to the person (as opposed to reading my wife's notes from the answering machine) she primarily wanted help selling the mirror. Gary's take is she donates the mirror to us and then we sell it. That may be fine, in principle, provided we make clear that our intent is to sell and not use the mirror. In this case there seems to be some unknown factor that reduces the market for this mirror. That may have been a ploy on the part of the potential purchaser. Alternatively could be something fundamentally wrong with the mirror (e.g. it is a convex mirror). Lee was going to talk with her also. I would be interested in what she tells him. Until then I would oppose the donation. My point before is there is a point where more formality (and more heads) are required to make the decision. Rob Hawley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070704/70dcc4a9/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 4 13:09:49 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Wed Jul 4 13:10:05 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here are the meeting minutes... ====================================================== June 30, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ====================================================== Rob made a motion to approve the May meeting minutes with one correction- it should be recorded that he voted against the motion to approve the April minutes. Craig will send out a revised copy of the May minutes to include this correction. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Members present ------------------------------------- SJAA Board Members *-Rob Hawley *-Rich Neuschaefer *-Lee Hoglan *-Craig Scull *-Gary Mitchell *-Steve Nelson (unexcused) *-Dave Smith *-Gordon Reade SJAA Members *-Rob Johnson Rob J is organizing a star party at Pinnacles in early Nov or late Oct and would like to extend an invitation for SJAA members to attend. Rob J will send Craig more information about this event as it becomes available. ------------------------------------- Coverage for upcoming events ------------------------------------- Upcoming Events 5 -Th- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm Gary 6 -Fr- Astronomy Class at Houge Park. 7:30 pm Rob 6 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Rob 20 -Fr- Houge Park star party. Rob 21 -Sa- Public star party at Coyote Lake Park. Rob 21 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm Gary 28 -Sa- General Meeting. Bryant Grigsby Rob ------------------------------------- Board Vacancy ------------------------------------- Rob made a motion to that board position previously filled by Mike Koop become open so it can be filled. The motion was seconded by Lee and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Robert Armstrong expressed interest in filling the open board position. Since he will not be present at tonight's meeting we will wait until the meeting next month to vote and give any other members a chance to volunteer for the opening. The board would like Robert to join, but it is the club membership that votes and approved this. ------------------------------------- Ephemeris Mailing ------------------------------------- The scheduling of the ephemeris has been a problem in the past because there was too little notice (only hours) to have the labeling party. Gordon volunteered to fill in for Mike's duties for the Ephemeris. Workflow is as follows: -Paul sends the ephemeris to the printer. -The printer finishes printing the ephemeris -Gordon picks up the ephemeris copies from the printer (around 17th of the month) -Gordon notifies people that he has the copies and suggests when the labeling party should be. He plans to give around 3 days notice (note that Rob cannot make thursdays) for when this will be. -The labeling party happens (usually around 7 or 8pm) -Rob takes the sealed ephemeris envelopes to be mailed at the Lundy post office ------------------------------------- Hoagie Park ------------------------------------- Rob paid $80 to the park for the general use of the Hoagie park facility. $80 = $50 damage deposit + $30 application fee We're not sure why the park asked for a $50 deposit. Normally our deposit rolls over from the prior cycle. Rob is going to call the person at the Camden Community Center to find out if we will get last year's deposit back or if it will be credited for this year. The park says that we cannot have swap events because it's a flea market and these may not be held on their property. The park has no problems with auctions, but does require us to pay $145 for the event. Rob is going to talk to the park to find out what changes would be necessary to the swap meet in order to make it acceptable to the park. Rob will also enquire about the possibility of additional payment options, such as a fixed percentage of the proceeds. Rob will create the 2008 schedule for the park of dates which Mike previously had done. ------------------------------------- Disposition of stored material ------------------------------------- Project Astro would be willing to accept all of the 60mm refractors (6 total) from the loaner telescope program. Rob Hawley made a motion to donate the small (60mm) telescopes in storage at his house to project astro. The remainder of the poor quality scopes will be donated to Goodwill or scrapped. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Rob made a motion that Gary Mitchell is authorized to sell any surplus mirror making materials to the Chabot mirror making class (Rich Ozer) for whatever he deems to be a fair price. The motion was seconded by Dave Smith and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Rob made a motion that he would scrap any of the stored components that have no commercial value and are not of future use to the club. Rob will bring these to Hoagie next friday for inspection so there is a second opinion about this. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Gary made a motion that Rob be authorized, if needed, to procure a commercial storage space large enough to hold all of the mirror making components and club property at his home that he is unable to store. The motion was seconded by Rob and approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Loaner Program ------------------------------------- There will be a call to all of the non-members to bring in the loaner telescopes they are storing within the next 2 months. Gary will contact Richard Ozer of the Chabot ATM program to let them know we have a used 13.1 Coulter F/4.5 OTA and mount available to them. The OTA has no primary mirror or mirror cell. Lee is currently storing the OTA and Rich has the mount. ------------------------------------- Rehosting on BlueHost ------------------------------------- Paul (not present) has expressed strong support for the proposal to migrate the club's site to BlueHost. Also, BlueHost would support any needs that Jim would have if he wanted to migrate his content there. Rob made a motion to move the club's web site and mail lists from Morris Jones' private server to BlueHost.com next week if possible. This involves having the club reimburse Rob $166.80 ($6.95 a month x 24) for the first 24 months of service. They will also reimburse Rob for any fees related to changing the DNS registration (about $25) if necessary. Craig seconded the motion and it was approved by unanimous vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- AANC Representation Needed ------------------------------------- Deferred until the next meeting since Steve is not present. We think Steve might be interested in this position. ------------------------------------- SJAA Signs ------------------------------------- Deferred until the next meeting since Steve is not present. ------------------------------------- CalStar ------------------------------------- Charlie Wicks has redesigned the CalStar web site. It looks great. We will also ask him if he would like to work on the SJAA main web site and Craig expressed an interest in reviewing any work before it gets committed to code. ------------------------------------- Evaluation of Boxes from Rob's House ------------------------------------- Deferred until Friday when Rob will bring some materials for us to review. ------------------------------------- General Meeting Programs ------------------------------------- Programs are filled for the rest of the year. Lee will speak in December on night myopia for 30 minutes. ------------------------------------- Observational Astronomy Class Report ------------------------------------- Rob is looking for topic suggestions. He normally does a what's up in the sky talk and would like to branch out into other topics. ------------------------------------- Treasurer's report - Gary Mitchell ------------------------------------- Accounts: CD 1 5251.66 * CD 2 5167.51 * CD 3 5000.00 * CD 4 5000.00 * Checking 2971.06 Observatory Fund 3100.51 * PayPal 19.12 Savings 343.49 * Petty Cash 111.24 ------------ OVERALL TOTAL 26964.59 * No change since last month. One CD is about to mature. For now on, one will mature each quarter. The treasurer is suppose to keep a property list. Until now, that was very difficult to do. It will take time, but a property list will be made. ------------------------------------- Loaner Scope Program Report ------------------------------------- On hold. ------------------------------------- Observatory Committee ------------------------------------- Nothing to report. Craig still planning to go with Lee to visit the location where his observatory has been. ------------------------------------- School Star Parties ------------------------------------- Dormant, but there is a public star party in August at Yosemite. ------------------------------------- ATM Class ------------------------------------- There is currently no teacher. Gary is the only student who attends and occasionally someone shows up and he doesn't know what to tell them. Gary made a motion to stop publicizing the ATM class in the Ephemeris for the near future, perhaps until next year. Rob seconded this. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Membership report - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- The report date is 6/30 for the purpose of reporting who is a current member, but includes my 7/2 processing of the mail. Note the 14 expirations for Jun 07. Some of these people responded to my 7/2 "Expired" message by paying. Others responded that they are moving out of the area and letting their subscription lapse. --What Month do memberships expire-- Report Date 6/30/2007 May-07 7 Jun-07 14 Jul-07 16 Aug-07 24 Sep-07 17 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 18 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 16 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 12 May-08 18 Jun-08 50 Jul-08 9 more than 13 months 11 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 276 email delivery 38 Labels Generated 279 S&T Members 167 New Members since last meeting 10 current + complementary 310 --Membership Retention-- paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 22 2006 58 49 84% 2005 64 30 47% 2004 68** 21 31% 2003 61** 26 43% 2002 26** 15 58% < 2002 148** 113 76% ** based on 12/04 total 276 At this point the majority of the 14 not yet renewed members are from the < 2002 group. 2004 contributes most of the rest. As I said some of these renewed so these numbers are subject to change. The meeting was adjourned at 7:48. From reade at stanford.edu Wed Jul 4 13:51:46 2007 From: reade at stanford.edu (Gordon Reade) Date: Wed Jul 4 13:51:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: <011201c7bdd9$da782bd0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net><4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org> <468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net><00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net><00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AF364.5090504@aenet.net> <011201c7bdd9$da782bd0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20070704135146.mnllcp97ly5cgwco@webmail.stanford.edu> You have my vote. I'd much rather watch an eclipse with friends than do so alone. Clear Skies Gordon Quoting Rob Hawley-SJAA : > > Then we should just reserve Houge. Is there more than one vote on the board > to hold such an event? > > I have not had time to deal with this yet. I will try to get over there on > Thursday or Friday. > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From rnapo at znet.com Wed Jul 4 15:47:46 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Wed Jul 4 15:48:05 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours References: <46884335.1060406@aenet.net><4688B0DC.14AE@svpal.org><468A0A97.5050408@aenet.net><00dc01c7bd7c$fd5578e0$0400a8c0@robathome><468AD4BD.6040607@aenet.net><00ff01c7bdc6$1403b4f0$0400a8c0@robathome><468AF364.5090504@aenet.net> <011201c7bdd9$da782bd0$0400a8c0@robathome> <20070704135146.mnllcp97ly5cgwco@webmail.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <000501c7be8d$57f94a90$2a52f842@180edt> I'm not sure if I can attend, but it sounds like a nice idea. Rich > > You have my vote. I'd much rather watch an eclipse with friends than > do so alone. > > Clear Skies > > Gordon > > > > Quoting Rob Hawley-SJAA : > >> >> Then we should just reserve Houge. Is there more than one vote on the board >> to hold such an event? >> >> I have not had time to deal with this yet. I will try to get over there on >> Thursday or Friday. >> >> Rob Hawley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SJAABoard mailing list >> SJAABoard@sjaa.net >> http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From Nelsonastro at aol.com Wed Jul 4 16:45:21 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 4 16:45:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours Message-ID: You have my vote (i.e.) why not try something new - it's less of a drive than Coe or even Monta Bello. Horizon? It might be worth while (and maybe I'll find time) to do a horizon set of images from the center of the Star-Party -Sidewalk to confirm the clearances we have! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070704/2b79ff02/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Wed Jul 4 17:04:42 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 4 17:04:51 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: sorry for being out of town and not letting you know I'd miss the meeting. COMMENTS on items voted - not on minutes Donations of old telescopes and parts: Project Astro: good use, maybe we could put lables on them "please return to San Jose Astronomical Society rather than discard!" Teachers can come and go at a school. Some have no interest in keeping astronomy equipment - it can just end up in trash! We could also provide a service to Project Astro by getting back unused- about to be trashed- scopes and finding new places for them. We should also be able to keep enough misc. parts from these to refurbish them (if needed). This doesn't mean we have to keep any records on them! (last is important!) Do you know of a small refractor and a small reflector? I made a demo case where I cut into cross-section (not objectives!) two small junkers, put in a couple of plastic eyeballs, some wires for light-rays, and came up with a neat little "REFRACTOR-REFLECTOR" display. OTAs only needed (plus eyepieces). I'll drop by Friday. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070704/2800f16d/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Wed Jul 4 17:26:03 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Wed Jul 4 17:26:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] lunar eclipse Aug.28 wee hours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017101c7be9b$12ccabc0$0400a8c0@robathome> Fine I will add this to the list of items to discuss with Camden. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Wed Jul 4 18:48:43 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Wed Jul 4 18:48:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <017701c7bea6$9f037140$0400a8c0@robathome> >------------------------------------- >Hoagie Park >------------------------------------- Houge >Community Center to find out if we will get last >year's deposit back or if it will be credited for this >year. It is already paid so I will find out what happened to the 1st half 2007 deposit. { as well as how to restructure the swap and the new issue of the eclipse party. Good job of capturing what happened. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 5 04:01:26 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Jul 5 03:59:29 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <014801c7be08$16f24360$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00f201c7bdac$252a4420$0400a8c0@robathome> <468ADB2E.5010209@aenet.net><010901c7bdcd$a52ca3e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <468AFD6F.5030700@aenet.net> <014801c7be08$16f24360$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468CCF86.9050701@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: >>There's a big difference between "may accept" and "must approve." >> >>I don't recall the board ever approving any of the great many other >>donations (cash or property) we've received. > > > If I were an uninvolved board member I would certainly find it interesting > if someone showed up at a board meeting and said "Guess what we now own a 30 > inch mirror". > > We discussed this at the last meeting, but the resolution I proposed was too > broad. Am I the only one who doesn't remember discussing this mirror at the last meeting? > We definitely need to continue this at the next board meeting. There > is no downside to an unconditional cash donation. What about a donation > restricted to a certain use? What about a gift that will cost thousands of > dollars and hundreds of man-hours per year to maintain? Apparently you missed this part in my last reply: > If a donation will cost the club something, then that's different, > the board needs to approve expenditures. > What about someone's > cast off Tascos? > > There comes a point where the advice and consent of the board should be > required. I can even foresee cases where we should consult the full > membership. Yes, yes, yes... the bigger and more problematic the donation, the more we have to be involved. But that's beside the point: the board isn't required to vote to accept donations, unless it will cost us. In the case of this mirror; if a member volunteers to store it for the club, there's no down side. So why fight it? It's an asset. Assets are good. Assets can be used or turned into money. I think suddenly having to deal with all that stuff from Mike is affecting you. In the case of a donated piece of junk... If we don't want it, we can tell the person who accepted it that they can keep it or throw it away. In that case a vote of the board might be needed, since we would technically already own it. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 5 04:10:15 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Jul 5 04:08:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468CD197.6090202@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > When I talked to the person (as opposed to reading my wife?s notes from > the answering machine) she primarily wanted help selling the mirror. > Gary?s take is she donates the mirror to us and then we sell it. I understood it was just a simple donation, that's all. At the time no mention was made of selling. Gary > That > may be fine, in principle, provided we make clear that our intent is to > sell and not use the mirror. In this case there seems to be some unknown > factor that reduces the market for this mirror. That may have been a > ploy on the part of the potential purchaser. Alternatively could be > something fundamentally wrong with the mirror (e.g. it is a convex mirror). > > > > Lee was going to talk with her also. I would be interested in what she > tells him. Until then I would oppose the donation. > > > > My point before is there is a point where more formality (and more > heads) are required to make the decision. > > Rob Hawley > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 5 04:13:30 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Jul 5 04:11:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <001b01c7be69$87642800$da5bf842@180edt> References: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> <001b01c7be69$87642800$da5bf842@180edt> Message-ID: <468CD25A.3090909@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > I like the idea of helping the lady sell the mirror, but if we become > responsible for the sale, then > that could have her coming back to/at us if she thinks we could have > made a better deal. > > Rich I have nothing against being nice and helping someone out, but where money is involved, we need to be a lot more careful... much more business-like. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 5 05:01:23 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Jul 5 04:58:55 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <468CDD93.9010907@aenet.net> Craig Scull wrote: Just one little nit-pick: > ------------------------------------- > Disposition of stored material > ------------------------------------- > Gary made a motion that Rob be authorized, if needed, > to procure a commercial storage space large enough to > hold all of the mirror making components and club > property at his home that he is unable to store. The > motion was seconded by Rob and approved by unanimous > vote. There were no abstentions or oppositions. I didn't specifically mentioned the mirror making supplies (much of which may well be sold soon anyway). The intention was to give Rob the authority to rent a storage locker so he could clear his garage of SJAA stuff (and anyone else too). Gary From reade at stanford.edu Thu Jul 5 06:25:58 2007 From: reade at stanford.edu (Gordon Reade) Date: Thu Jul 5 06:26:04 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: <468CD25A.3090909@aenet.net> References: <145839.45836.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <015301c7be67$574f1d20$0400a8c0@robathome> <001b01c7be69$87642800$da5bf842@180edt> <468CD25A.3090909@aenet.net> Message-ID: <20070705062558.paqc5j5wg7nggosk@webmail.stanford.edu> I agree completely. As I understand it the lady in question doesn?t really understand much about the mirror she wishes to dispose of. She doesn?t understand if it is aluminized or if it is paralyzed. She doesn?t know if it is plate glass, pyrex or something else. Most troubling of all she doesn?t seen to know much about how her late husband came into possession of this item and what he planned on doing with it. She doesn?t know what it?s worth and so I think it?s safe to assume that she doesn?t have the bill of sales if one ever existed. If she wants to simply donate the mirror to the club to clear the storage space I?d say that?s fine. But on the other hand if she is trying to get what she considers a fair market value for the mirror and is afraid of being cheated the club has very little to gain and much to lose by becoming involved. Clear Skies Gordon Reade Quoting Gary Mitchell : > Rich N wrote: > >> I like the idea of helping the lady sell the mirror, but if we >> become responsible for the sale, then >> that could have her coming back to/at us if she thinks we could >> have made a better deal. Rich > > I have nothing against being nice and helping someone out, but where > money is involved, we need to be a lot more careful... much more > business-like. > > Gary > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From sjaa at robhawley.net Thu Jul 5 07:14:18 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Thu Jul 5 07:14:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <468CDD93.9010907@aenet.net> References: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <468CDD93.9010907@aenet.net> Message-ID: <018a01c7bf0e$c7623d20$0400a8c0@robathome> Craig recorded resolution SM-2 which is what we voted to approve. SM - 2 The board authorizes Rob Hawley to procure a commercial storage space large enough to hold all of the mirror making components and club property at his home that he is unable to store. I will not take action on this until I return from Lassen. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Thu Jul 5 09:13:55 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Thu Jul 5 09:13:50 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <018a01c7bf0e$c7623d20$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <279016.38423.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com><468CDD93.9010907@aenet.net> <018a01c7bf0e$c7623d20$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <019101c7bf1f$7da5ae90$0400a8c0@robathome> My intent was that the area be able to hold the stuff at Houge also. As worded that intent does not come through clearly. We can talk about this at Houge. I am hoping no one has to rent anything. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Jul 5 11:15:12 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 5 11:15:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: I'm now curious. The minutes 'state' that the members need to vote on a Board member replacement after a resignation. - but as pointed out - the Bylaws make it clear that that is not so. Who put the 'statement' in the minutes? Can this obvious error be fixed, even if someone did 'state' it? If the desire is to record (even in error) what was said, then maybe it could be in the form of an insert, i.e. [correction: Article 3 Section 17 states that Board may approve a replacement Director] This type of 'correction' can be added by ammendment of the minutes before we vote on acceptance of the minutes. Steven (more the Parlimentarian) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070705/e0de4ff8/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Jul 5 11:57:48 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 5 11:58:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations Message-ID: Gordan's restatement of the potential problem with club involvement with a resale and a cash transaction is a good summary. I hope we can all reasonably accept it (although we may have slight differences). I would also oppose 'helping the lady with the sale'. But I would also approve sending a couple of Board members over to look at the crates, open them with the woman present (maybe have her sign an insurance release), and try to determine the value to us, and report back to the Board.. Value to us: sell on E-Bay because we have the expertise to describe the mirror keep to use for a 'project' (unlikely) keep to sell to a member (i.e. open sale only to members) [all of these assume a direct donation of the mirror to the club, the lady would get a letter stating the 'value' of the donation that we determine. We don't give her the information on the mirror for free. She would not be tempted to use our effort to relist on E Bay with the information we spent hours collecting. Our even slight 'expertise' does have value! Let's not waste volunteer hours.] Opening the Crates What is the size and FL? Central hole? Original intended use? Is it marked on the crate or the back of the optic? Can we get a serial number and track it down through the manufacture? Can we get a record from some kind technical contact from the project? Measure it by getting an image of the Sun (wow that's HOT!) (/Moon) What is the material ?: lets see- Pyrex is in 'short supply' world-wide fuzed quartz is expensive but great stuff (10X Pyrex?) Cervit is also expensive and great stuff (per oz. it used to be the value of silver) - if necessary - a CTE measurement by changing the temp. of blank (i.e. a pool of cool water, letting it warm up outside in the afternoon) -Original intended use is very IMPORTANT! -- The PAS accepted a 24" OTA a number of years ago and unsuccessfully put it up at Oak Ridge Observatory. I say "unsuccessful" because an observatory, new secondary, and equitorial mount were made for A 1/100 WAVE 100 um INFRARED PRIMARY! i.e a two wavelength visual optical system !!!! The material, Cervit, made it much more valuable to sell or use as a basis for a major refigure project. I think we really want to avoid that kind of exercise ! That telescope is not used (not useful). - General - I think the perspective Gary articulated on the 'value of donations' is in line with my own thinking, and Mike's past actions. Small items can turn out to be of direct value in future years (i.e. almost $400 of pieces for upgrade of new Higbe Loaner Scope). The Loaner Scope Program (and it's operators) is the obvious place for these small "equipment" donations to go (or NOT GO). Any true JUNK should never be accepted. Anything that will cost the club to store/dispose obviously needs Board approval. Anything that a Director objects to obviously needs Board approval. [if past Boards have ignored or been unaware of Bylaw rules, that does not invalidate them Gary!] Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070705/00fd5443/attachment-0001.html From jvn at svpal.org Thu Jul 5 13:35:23 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Thu Jul 5 13:52:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations References: Message-ID: <468D560B.2E2@svpal.org> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > We don't give her the information on the mirror > for free. She would not be tempted to use our effort to re-list > on E Bay with the information we spent hours collecting. Heck, and here the school star party team has been giving away information that we've each spent YEARS collecting! Silly astronomers! I spent a week inventorying a roomful of material for the widow of a deceased SJAA member. I didn't expect to be paid. If she used it to sell on eBay, I'm not aware of it. Nor would I object. Silly me! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Jul 5 14:18:58 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 5 14:19:14 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations Message-ID: JVN - Hey, good guys do all sorts of things! I just don't think as a club we need to donate this type of time (rather than using it for public or club star parties, fixing old loaner scopers etc.) BTW - I took a look at the pictures that are on the E Bay listing. I DO NOT think it is interesting. It looks like a massive thick hunk of glass, in a brute-force type of holder. It might have been for an optical simulator or spot light reflector for a space environment simulator (i.e. 10 X suns) or ??? I don't think it is worth any effort as a club. PS Hey, good guys do all sorts of things! Anyone can volunteer on their own time! Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070705/7f895858/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Thu Jul 5 15:56:09 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Thu Jul 5 15:56:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01af01c7bf57$ae19e0e0$0400a8c0@robathome> This is one of those fine points. The minutes do reflect what happened in the meeting. As I noted several days ago, the board can replace a board member that has resigned themselves without holding a vote of the general members. I suggest leaving the minutes to state what happened (even if wrong) and then act on the correct information. This mail list serves as a permanent record of our decision process. Rob Hawley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070705/d4c50acf/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Thu Jul 5 16:00:17 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Thu Jul 5 16:00:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes In-Reply-To: <01af01c7bf57$ae19e0e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <01af01c7bf57$ae19e0e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <01ba01c7bf58$483c3100$0400a8c0@robathome> A similar point has presented itself with regard to the calendar. Jim informed me after reading the minutes that I had the process wrong. The meeting notes correctly reflect what happened at the meeting, but we will follow the correct procedure from this point onward. Jim's email plus this one document the correction. Rob Hawley From craigus at rocketmail.com Thu Jul 5 17:33:53 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Thu Jul 5 17:34:02 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <284260.77157.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, that is our policy with regard to meeting minutes --the Secraigtary ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley-SJAA To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 4:00:17 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes A similar point has presented itself with regard to the calendar. Jim informed me after reading the minutes that I had the process wrong. The meeting notes correctly reflect what happened at the meeting, but we will follow the correct procedure from this point onward. Jim's email plus this one document the correction. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 6 02:13:23 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Jul 6 02:11:05 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff Message-ID: <468E07B3.3020907@aenet.net> Regarding the SJAA's mirror making supplies... The board gave me authority to decide what to sell etc, but I need to know how to decide. What's the general feeling of the board? Is there any interest in starting up a new mirror making workshop any time soon? And if so, would we rather start fresh and buy whatever we decide we need at that time, or store stuff that we may need? (An inventory has just been done, but I need to convert my chicken scratchings into a coherent list.) Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 6 02:58:44 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Jul 6 02:56:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468E1254.9070707@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > JVN - Hey, good guys do all sorts of things! I just don't think as > a club we need to donate this type of time (rather than using it > for public or club star parties, fixing old loaner scopers etc.) Part of the club's charter is to benefit the public with education and information about all things astronomical. It seems to me helping someone evaluate an astronomical item is very much within those limits. I don't think you'd be able to convince the board to charge people money for giving advice or evaluations on telescope parts. > PS > Hey, good guys do all sorts of things! Anyone can volunteer > on their own time! Everything we do in the club is on our own time. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 6 03:00:08 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Jul 6 02:57:36 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468E12A8.3000700@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > [if past Boards have ignored or been unaware of Bylaw rules, that does > not invalidate them Gary!] Yes it does. I forget the technical term for it, but a bylaw rule that has been ignored--without objection--over considerable time is no longer valid. (I looked into these things many years ago for another club and could go digging through my notes if I absolutely have to.) The basic idea is that if no one has objected to violating that provision after many years of doing so, then that's tantamount to the rule being removed by the organization. In our case, the "rule" in question isn't even stated in the bylaws. It's just an interpretation that Rob was reading into them himself. So this one doesn't have a ghost of a chance. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Fri Jul 6 07:13:16 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Fri Jul 6 07:13:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff In-Reply-To: <468E07B3.3020907@aenet.net> References: <468E07B3.3020907@aenet.net> Message-ID: <01c301c7bfd7$cf758d90$0400a8c0@robathome> For as long as I have been on the board I have felt that the MM was the exclusive providence of you and Mike. So now it is up to you. The good news is we have a good alternative to put the equipment to use. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 6 07:49:43 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Jul 6 07:47:19 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff In-Reply-To: <01c301c7bfd7$cf758d90$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <468E07B3.3020907@aenet.net> <01c301c7bfd7$cf758d90$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <468E5687.9050805@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > For as long as I have been on the board I have felt that the MM was the > exclusive providence of you and Mike. So now it is up to you. > > The good news is we have a good alternative to put the equipment to use. OK, well... my feeling is that it will probably be a while before we have another mirror making class (true?), and we have storage issues. If someone (Chabot) can use it, we should let them--it's better than just having it sit in the back room at Houge. So, I'm thinking of selling all of it if they want it. There's nothing here that can't be replaced if/when we want to start up a new class. There are just a few things that we *may* want to hang on to, certain tools and a couple of things club members made and donated. For example, there's a really nice grinding/polishing rotating table in a plastic tub. I was told it was made and donated by Akkana. And there's a depth gauge, looks like it was homemade. I've got the ATM inventory done, any objection if I post it to the remailer? Gary From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri Jul 6 20:19:21 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 6 20:19:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: Corrections to minutes, where are these adopted then? Emails are not officially adopted as actions of the Board. They are informal, rather than formal. I would like Rob or Craig to propose a mechanism to formally indicate that there was factual misinformation in the minutes. My suggestion still stands [ correction ] which is adopted as an amendment to minutes, after Craig's submittal. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070706/506ab7f9/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri Jul 6 20:32:14 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 6 20:32:26 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff Message-ID: I was under the impression from the meeting notes that materials for mirror making- blanks, glass tools, grind tools, grit, polishing materials, and misc. brushes, mats, were all to be transfered (by sale in large lots?) to Chabot. We get what $ they think appropriate (do we really want to store - I think not!) Boxes - close to what we started 1 8" blank glass materials 2 10" blank glass materials # grit, and grinding # polish & lap I only think boxes 1 & 2 are of particular value. I would just give the gring and polish to the Chabot group (they are an astro non-profit and do a great pubic service). Last night - when we were unpacking, noting and repacking - I do not think we want to dispose of materials that may be useful for Loaner Scopes (repair or part replacement) or simple astronomy demonstrations. keep - Aluminized mirrors, polished out mirrors, mirror testers, Dob bearing materials. I don't see how these could be considered 'mirror making' Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070706/d270c923/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Fri Jul 6 20:42:50 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 6 20:43:06 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Acceptance of Donations Message-ID: I would vote against 'authorizing' someone, in the name of the club, to do a monetary evaluation of an astronomical item. This is particularly true when the club was not going to directly benefit. I believe another director expressed a similar reluctance. "Evaluate an astronomical item" - if that means help the general public collimate a telescope and look through it at a Star Party -YES WE SHOULD. But giving $$ advice is a bit different. If it means taking a mirror and putting it on a test stand and helping take measurements - YES WE SHOULD. But that is not the same as a written (or oral) "this is a 1/8 wave mirror and worth $250" type of evaluation. Sort of like the "Donation" issue. Don't sweat the small stuff. Big stuff needs a Board vote. What you do 'on your own' is 'your own'. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070706/9d98f5ad/attachment.html From craigus at rocketmail.com Fri Jul 6 23:05:23 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Fri Jul 6 23:05:38 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <809085.7391.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> we'd need a date and source along with the correction, like [corrected 9/17/2007-- yada yada; source John Doe] I'd be happy to make these updates if you would like to parse through all the minutes and find out what needs to be changed. Craig ----- Original Message ---- From: "Nelsonastro@aol.com" To: sjaaboard@sjaa.net Sent: Friday, July 6, 2007 8:19:21 PM Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] June 30, 2007 - Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Corrections to minutes, where are these adopted then? Emails are not officially adopted as actions of the Board. They are informal, rather than formal. I would like Rob or Craig to propose a mechanism to formally indicate that there was factual misinformation in the minutes. My suggestion still stands [ correction ] which is adopted as an amendment to minutes, after Craig's submittal. Steven See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070706/57cbb03b/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Sat Jul 7 03:50:43 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sat Jul 7 03:48:17 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff In-Reply-To: <468E5687.9050805@aenet.net> References: <468E07B3.3020907@aenet.net> <01c301c7bfd7$cf758d90$0400a8c0@robathome> <468E5687.9050805@aenet.net> Message-ID: <468F7003.9030900@aenet.net> > Gary Mitchell wrote: > >> I've got the ATM inventory done, any objection if I post it to the >> remailer? Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > Not from me > Close enough. Here's the list of ATM suplies currently at Houge. It seems Rob may have a few things that could be part of this lot, but that is not included. Any objections if all of this stuff is made available to Rich Ozer (Chabot)? Gary =================================================================== ATM / Mirror making supplies: Optics and blanks: 4 10" blank, pyrex, full thickness 1 10" blank, pyrex, thin (1") 1 10" blank, plate, thin (1") (tool) 5 8" blank, pyrex, full thickness 2 8" blank, plate, 1" (tool) 1 8.5" blank, pyrex, 5/8" thick 1 8.5" blank, plate, 5/8" thick (tool) 3 6" blank, pyrex, full thickness 1 6 1/8" blank, plate (tool) 2 4.25" pyrex blank 1 4 3/8" pyrex blank 2 2" blank, pyrex, 1" thick 1 8" finished & aluminized mirror (former scope #15) Spherical 1.79 m fl 1 8" finished mirror, spherical, 1.5 m fl 1 6" finished & aluminized mirror in "industrial" cell 1 4" finished & aluminized spherical mirror in home made wood cell 1 magnifier lens (~2" square) 1 diagonal for 4" newtonian (Edmund) 1 1" flat mirror, square Mirror grinding grits: (amounts are approximate) 4 cups 60 5 cups 80 1 cup 100 3 cups 120 4 cups 220 1/4 cup 320 8 cups 400 1 TBLS 500 1 TBLS 600 1/2 tsp 600 Mirror polish: (amounts are approximate) 12 oz Rouge 1 cup cerium oxide 1/2 cup Al oxide, 5 u 2 cups Al oxide, 12 u 2 TBLS Al oxide, 9.5 u 2 TBLS F50 1/3 cup BCCO 24 oz Burgundy pitch, 175 deg, new, (Edmund, in three 8 oz cardboard tubs) ~20 oz used pitch, looks like Burgundy 1/4 cup pitch bits, hard, could be Burgundy 8 fl oz turpentine (some may have been used) 2 8" pitch forms, rubber Mirror grinding tools: 2 10" grinding tool 2 8" grinding tool 2 6" grinding tool Misc. tools 1 depth gauge with flat stone calibration plate (homemade) 2 Foucault testers (cheap), one by Edmund, one home made handful of rubberized non-slip mats 1 towel 1 sighting ring for collimation (cardboard) assorted zip-lock bags 1 hacksaw with extra blades 2 4" diamond pads (maybe for flat grinding?) 1 plastic brush 1 small box razor blades 1 1" paint brush 1 1/2" round paint brush 1 pack epoxy (dual syringe type, looks like some may have been used) 4 spray bottles 3 1 gal. water jugs 1 4.5 gal plastic tub 1 garden hose with spray nozzle 1 key for water faucets 1 Toastmaster model 592 (quart size water heater) 1 heavy grinding table, yellow, ~3' tall, triangular top ~2' on a side 1 grinding/polishing rotating table in a blue plastic tub (1.5' x 2.5' x 6") 1 large box: assorted Ebony Star pieces 1 coil of plastic strapping (apparently for bearing liner) 1 pair, plastic Dob bearings for a 4" Newtonian (~5" tube) 1 spring kit 3 long, 3 short (apparently for a mirror cell, fairly heavy gauge springs) 1 2" pipe flange 1 rubber eyepiece guard (apparently) From robhawley at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 09:41:47 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Sat Jul 7 09:41:51 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Examination of the stuff Gary and I are storing Message-ID: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome> First to answer Gary's question. The board has already approved your contacting Richard to make whatever deal you believe is fair. Gary, Steve, and Gordon looked at the boxes from my home last night. Gary ended up taking a lot of the stuff with him. I took home all of the small telescopes that appear complete. I will contact Bob Havner. Steve suggested that we loan rather than give the scopes to Bob. Personally, I would like to see these off our books as assets since we will not be able to track them. The board members and Jim went through the boxes of eyepieces and culled out those worth keeping. Gary suggested I contact Joe Sunseri and have him give us a bid on the entire lot. If there are no objections, I will proceed with this suggestion after GSSP. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat Jul 7 11:01:27 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 7 11:01:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - [corrections] Message-ID: Re: corrections in [ ], added at time of adoption Craig (& Board) This is not proposed as a correction for past minutes that have already been voted as accepted. No need to parse or 'backdate'. Rather - it is to correct errors of fact, found before the minutes are voted on as a Board. The desire, as expressed by some before, is to keep items (including errors) in as recorded. "Correcting the record" is something that is done at the time the minutes are voted on. [corrected: ..... ] is sufficient to do that. - but again - who put the error in on members needing to vote on a replacement Director? It is stated as fact with no attribution. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070707/43f96e8a/attachment-0001.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat Jul 7 11:17:07 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 7 11:17:43 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Examination of the stuff Gary and I are storing Message-ID: My suggestion was that we give this stuff (small telescopes) to Project Astro to get it off our books. This means that we do not have to trace them. I'm sorry if I have to restate the next part: My suggestion was that we act as a "resupply" to Project Astro by putting a label to "return to SJAA when finished". The science teachers who get this stuff retire and move away. A new teacher may just junk material that could be reused. For instance, we went to a school star party at Peterson Middle School. They have 3 scopes that are not particularly in working condition. The new teacher who took over the program does not know (or maybe have parts) to fix them. Although we do not have these scopes on our books - we could provide a service through our Loaner program to refurbish them (if we have spare parts -say moderate replacement eyepieces). I can work a label out with Bob . ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070707/ad1100a7/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sat Jul 7 11:25:29 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 7 11:25:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff Message-ID: Thanks Gary, I got worn out after the first three batches! But it is better to have a Treasurer who is "to the penny". The following items I would like to keep - I consider them more as Demo telescope parts or telescope optics parts. If this means (in my garage) then so be it! 1 8" finished & aluminized mirror (former scope #15) Spherical 1.79 m fl 1 8" finished mirror, spherical, 1.5 m fl 1 6" finished & aluminized mirror in "industrial" cell 1 4" finished & aluminized spherical mirror in home made wood cell 1 diagonal for 4" newtonian (Edmund) 1 1" flat mirror, square I will also talk to Bob about these - they may be of use to a teacher and should go that route "off the books". Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070707/472b6465/attachment.html From rnapo at znet.com Sat Jul 7 11:50:37 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sat Jul 7 11:50:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? References: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> Hi folks, Maybe the SJAA could help the Project Astro teachers by having workshops now and then. If a Project Astro teacher has questions we can try and answer them, but in a situation where they're comfortable. Since the mirror making class is winding down maybe this workshop could done at Houge. I don't know how often a workshop would be needed. It might help if the teachers would let us know in advance about the things they would like to go over. Although, I wouldn't want to limit them to just the questions they submitted. All the best, Rich From sjaa at robhawley.net Sat Jul 7 14:52:22 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sat Jul 7 14:52:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? In-Reply-To: <001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> References: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome> <001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> Message-ID: <006801c7c0e1$1c6d7ae0$0400a8c0@robathome> Teacher's could certainly benefit from attending the beginner's class. I would really like to upgrade the entire program. I have a topic for next month and would like to think up additional classes. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Sat Jul 7 14:58:09 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sat Jul 7 14:58:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - [corrections] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006901c7c0e1$e8312d20$0400a8c0@robathome> I would rather we spend our time solving problems than debating process. I will leave it up to the Secretary to decide which, if any, clarifications to the minutes for the last meeting or the next meeting are appropriate. Steve is not eligible to vote on last month's minutes since he did not attend the meeting. What I don't want to do is spend time debating this during the meeting. Immediately after approving the minutes I will introduce a resolution approving Robert for the board position opened by the resignation of Mike. Thus any debate on the minutes would immediately be rendered moot. Rob Hawley From sjaa at robhawley.net Sat Jul 7 15:04:39 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Sat Jul 7 15:04:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donations to Project Astro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006a01c7c0e2$d0c0b2e0$0400a8c0@robathome> If anyone who voted on the Project Astro donation feels that the word "donate" really meant "lend" than I will hold up the process until we can clarify the intent at the next meeting. In the absence of such input I will pass on the suggestion to Bob that the scopes be labelled to return to Project Astro if any of the teachers assigned to the scopes no longer want them. BTW Bob subscribes to this list Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 8 03:44:32 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 8 03:42:09 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA mirror making stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4690C010.1060703@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > The following items I would like to keep - I consider them more as Demo > telescope parts or telescope optics parts. If this means (in my garage) > then so be it! > > 1 8" finished & aluminized mirror (former scope #15) Spherical 1.79 m fl > 1 8" finished mirror, spherical, 1.5 m fl > 1 6" finished & aluminized mirror in "industrial" cell > 1 4" finished & aluminized spherical mirror in home made wood cell > 1 diagonal for 4" newtonian (Edmund) > 1 1" flat mirror, square Actually, I was thinking that very thing about some of this stuff, that's why I wanted to make them available to Richard Ozer (Chabot). If we aren't going to have an ATM class in the foreseeable future, then it seems to me we would have no more need for demo items as we do for the rest of the ATM stuff. If Chabot takes these items, there's a good chance they'd be used in someone's telescope, or at the very least could be used as demo's there, since they have an active ATM class. > I will also talk to Bob about these - they may be of use to a teacher > and should go that route "off the books". What do you mean "off the books?" Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 8 03:47:25 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 8 03:44:48 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? In-Reply-To: <001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> References: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome> <001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> Message-ID: <4690C0BD.5000505@aenet.net> Rich N wrote: > Hi folks, > > Maybe the SJAA could help the Project Astro teachers by having > workshops now and then. If a Project Astro teacher has questions we can > try and answer them, but in a situation where they're comfortable. > Since the mirror making class is winding down maybe this workshop > could done at Houge. I don't know how often a workshop would be > needed. It might help if the teachers would let us know in advance > about the things they would like to go over. Although, I wouldn't want > to limit them to just the questions they submitted. I don't see that as a substitute for the ATM/mirror class, but something we could do anyway... maybe even as part of a meeting. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Sun Jul 8 03:59:18 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Sun Jul 8 03:56:44 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donations to Project Astro In-Reply-To: <006a01c7c0e2$d0c0b2e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <006a01c7c0e2$d0c0b2e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4690C386.4030409@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > If anyone who voted on the Project Astro donation feels that the word > "donate" really meant "lend" than I will hold up the process until we can > clarify the intent at the next meeting. I think Steve meant that if at some point a donated scope is going to be thrown out, then we should get it back instead. So, "lend" isn't really the right word. Gary From rnapo at znet.com Sun Jul 8 04:10:57 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun Jul 8 04:11:24 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? References: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome><001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> <4690C0BD.5000505@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000f01c7c150$a9691890$a65df842@180edt> > Rich N wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> Maybe the SJAA could help the Project Astro teachers by having >> workshops now and then. If a Project Astro teacher has questions we can >> try and answer them, but in a situation where they're comfortable. >> Since the mirror making class is winding down maybe this workshop >> could done at Houge. I don't know how often a workshop would be >> needed. It might help if the teachers would let us know in advance >> about the things they would like to go over. Although, I wouldn't want >> to limit them to just the questions they submitted. > > I don't see that as a substitute for the ATM/mirror class, but > something we could do anyway... maybe even as part of a meeting. > > Gary I wasn't thinking of it as a substitute for the class but as an alternate use of the room at Houge if we aren't going to have a mirror making/ATM class. Rich From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun Jul 8 11:52:46 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sun Jul 8 11:53:08 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] May 26 , 2007 - Final SJAA Board Meeting Minutes Message-ID: <52638.95367.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As discussed in the last meeting (June) here are the final May meeting minutes with Rob's "no vote" recorded regarding the approval of the April minutes... ====================================================== May 26, 2007 - SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - Craig Scull ====================================================== A board member (name not recorded) made a motion to approve the April meeting minutes. The motion was seconded by Craig and approved by unanimous vote. Rob voted against the motion. There were no abstentions. ------------------------------------- Members present ------------------------------------- SJAA Board Members *-Mike Koop (not present, but excused) *-Rob Hawley *-Rich Neuschaefer *-Lee Hoglan *-Craig Scull *-Gary Mitchell *-Steve Nelson *-Dave Smith *-Gordon Reade (not present, but excused) SJAA Members *-Mark Wagner *-Robert Armstrong ------------------------------------- Coverage for upcoming events ------------------------------------- 2 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 7 -Th- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 8 -Fr- Astronomy Class at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Rob 8 -Fr- Houge Park star party. -Rob 9 -Sa- Public star party at Coyote Lake Park. -Rob 22 -Fr- Houge Park star party. -Rob 23 -Sa- Mirror-making workshop at Houge Park. 7:30 pm -Gary 30 -Sa- General Meeting. SFAA member John Dillon, science historian, will tell us of the search for the first telescope. This talk is re-scheduled from February. Board meeting at 6:00; General Meeting at 8:00 ------------------------------------- President's Soapbox ------------------------------------- This week we all got a tough lesson on the importance making sure the minutes of the meeting are accurate. Not having complete minutes has, in the last couple of months, caused hard feelings on a number of occasions. While Craig tries to record the many conversations that happen in the board meeting, it is our shared responsibility to make sure the minutes are correct and not his alone. It has been stated many times this week "if it ain't in the minutes it did not happen". I believe that is the correct sentiment. To that end, I want to see us adopt the following changes in how we run meetings. 1. I want to reiterate the thought that the minutes must reflect all actionable decisions. We all need to examine the minutes carefully to insure all of the decisions or action items we care about are in the minutes. Neither Mike nor I caught that Mike's action item was not in the minutes. That was our fault. 2. We need to express clear resolutions that can be voted on and not vague thoughts. We got excellent results at the last meeting by my bringing the text of two resolutions to the meeting. I strongly suggest if someone wants the board to do something, they bring the words on paper to the meeting. 3. If we get in a rat hole either I or someone else needs to suggest we make a motion. Endless debate is not a good use of our time. If there is no support for an idea a vote will show that. 4. Sometimes we need to decide to table ideas. 5. When the board handles a particularly contentious issue, the chair or any member, will ask that the minutes be read and reviewed during the meeting. Hopefully if we adopt these steps the board will operate more smoothly. ------------------------------------- Mike as Life Member ------------------------------------- Concern was expressed that this would incur extra cost to the club. However, this cost would be a non- issue if the Ephemeris were emailed to Mike. Steve suggested we table the discussion until next month and the general concensus was that this was appropriate. ------------------------------------- Treasurer's report - Gary Mitchell ------------------------------------- We have a positive cashflow. Accounts: CD 1 5251.66 CD 2 5167.51 CD 3 5000.00 CD 4 5000.00 Checking 2936.26 Observatory Fund 3100.51 PayPal 121.44 Savings 343.49 Petty Cash 58.54 ------------ OVERALL TOTAL 26979.41 ------------------------------------- Coyote Star Parties ------------------------------------- Rob is planning to bring the things needed to allow grilling again. The next event will be held at the boat ramp, which is a safer location because it does not have as many gopher holes as the large field. There is some possible competition for the grills with the campers. We decided that the grill has added to the ambience previously and is worth the trouble to continue doing. Rob made a motion to continue doing the grill/potlluck with the new policy that the grill be cooled with water when the grilling is over. The motion was seconded. The motion was approved by majority vote. One abstained. One vote was against. Signage has been an issue with this event and signage ideas will be reviewed in the next agenda item. ------------------------------------- Signage for other SJAA events ------------------------------------- Steve brought us a sample 16 year old sign made of corrugated plastic that he has used to announce recycling day in his neighborhood. Steve is proposing to make 12 of these signs for use at SJAA events. Half of these signs would have permanent wording on them and half of the signs would use a clip-on technique using office bulk paper clips to hold a custom message to the sign's frame. He also brought large corrugated sheets of plastic to show us. Steve showed us a saw-horse style sign that unfolds open. The frame was made of PVC pipe. Rob expressed interest in this method for Calstar. Calstar was described as a separate problem because more signs are needed compared to other SJAA events. Steve made a motion that the board approve the reinbursement of up to $37 to him for the cost of corrugated plastic signs. Craig seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Calstar - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- Rob is going to utilize some aspects of the signage materials that Steve showed us tonight. Rob passed a motion for the board to approve the reinbursement of up to $200 to him for the cost of signs and cones for Calstar. Craig seconded the motion. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Budget-wise, the goal of Calstar has been to only lose around $100 dollars. Steve made a motion to adjust the budget to a break even point. A risk of this is that the SJAA may be perceived negatively if they make money and the prediction is never a guarantee of the actual net outcome of the event, so it's possible that SJAA could make money. Gary seconded the motion. The motion passed by majority vote. There were no abstentions and one vote against. Rob made a motion for two $125 checks to be made out to Valley Catering and one refundable $300 check. Steve seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Reconsideration of SJAA Web Hosting ------------------------------------- On the 10th of this month our web site went down. On the 11th Rob proposed we migrate our site and mail lists to an alternative web hosting company, Lunar Pages. We previously had an emergency board meeting at Hoagie Park where we approved this decision. However, further analysis has revealed that this company will not fully meet our requirements. Currently our site is still hosted with Mojo. Rob made a motion to reverse the prior decision to use Lunar Pages, Rich seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. Blue Host is a new company that Rob has found. Blue Host does not charge for mail lists. They offer similar services as Mojo provides. Rob suggests we move the site and not the mail lists in the first phase to Blue Host. Mojo has restructured the mail lists so that they can continue to be hosted by him separate from the club's site. In a second phase the mail lists would be moved to Blue Host at no additional charge. Blue Host costs $95/year. $166/2years. Rob moves to table the discussion until next meeting at which point he will have further details. Rich seconded the motion. ------------------------------------- Hosting for School Program and Club Calendar (among others) ------------------------------------- Rob made a motion to migrate all SJAA sites to the main SJAA site. The loaner list and status pages, the club calendar, and the school party calendar, and anything else. Gary seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. ------------------------------------- Goals of Loaner Program ------------------------------------- Rob showed us a first draft of the loaner scope program mission statement. It consisted of two paragraphs. Rob proposed that this mission statement be used as a first draft to be used going forward and that it would be revised based on further input from the board. It was seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There were no abstentions or oppositions. The draft statements are as follows: *Mission Statement for Loaner Program* Who Program is intended to Aid 1. Beginners Beginners should be able to get beginner level instruments that they can use (transport, setup, operate) to encourage their interest in the hobby. This contrasts to their seeing the instruments demonstrated at star parties 2. Intermediates If we have successfully attracted a new person to the hobby then most likely that person will desire a larger scope. The program should allow them to use scopes to see how large an instrument they can transport, set it up, and operate. The question was put on the table as to who can replace Mike for the loaner telescope program. Steve made a motion that he be chairman of the loaner telescope program with 3 committee members. The motion was not seconded. Rich expressed interest in possibly heading this up. In discussion it came out that there were 3 people who previously helped Mike out with the running of the program: Bill O'Shaunasy, Phil Chambers, Jim Bartellini. Mike provided a detailed inventory of the loaner program and at least 1/2 of the telescopes changed hands last year. From the facts brought to the meeting it was not known what number of these were "loan ending" transactions (e.g. scope moving into storage) and which number were "loan beginning" transactions (moving into a new loan). The program will be considered dormant until next month at which time we will have more time to consider how to proceed. There is a strong general sentiment that the loaner telescope program serves a valuable purpose and that all look forward to it becoming active again in the near future. ------------------------------------- Albert Highe Offer ------------------------------------- Rob made a motion that the Option 2 proposal be accepted. An amendment was proposed that the telescope Albert builds must be completed in 12 months and that we obtain the agreement in writing. The amendment was seconded. The amendment passed by unanimous vote. Option 2 proposal follows: Scope #28 (13.1" Coulter dob) will be given to Albert to remake this telescope as one of his design. Albert will also be given the mirror from scope #27 (13.1" Coulter dob) for his labor and materials (wood, struts, laminate, hardware, glue, finish, etc.) whose value he estimates to be at least $300. The mirror cell and any other components from the existing telescope (#28) would be used. Rob estimated the cost of replacing certain accessories to be: $199 JMI NGF-DX2 Focuser $100 Orion 9x50 and mounting base $35 Red dot finder $130 Spider The amounts are well within the amounts the club has traditionally authorized for Mike to maintain the inventory. Based on Craig's experience using scope #28 the board did not feel that refiguring was required. The amended motion was seconded. The motion passed by majority vote. One vote against. One abstention. Following the vote Rob announced that he intended to donate the full cost of the accessories to the club. Thanks Rob! ------------------------------------- Observatory Committee - Craig Scull ------------------------------------- No updates since last meeting. I am starting a new job June 11 at Adobe which is very employee friendly and should allow me to resume activity on this front again. I look forward to visiting Lee's place at Chew's ridge in the near future. ------------------------------------- School star parties - Jim Van Nuland ------------------------------------- Cumulative list of school events for 2006-7 school year Total Good Part. Cloudy Cancel sched sky succ. fail at noon Aug 1 1 - - - Sep 1 1 - - - Oct 7 6 - 1 - Nov 12 5 - 2 5 Dec 6 1 - - 5 Jan 8 6 2 - - Feb 7 1 3 2 1 Mar 14 9 4 1 - Apr 5 4 - 1 - May 6 6 - 0 - ----------------------------------- tot 67 40 9 7 11 Coming attractions, including part of 2008. Total Firm Makeup Negotiating ... Aug 3 3 - - Oct 1 1 - - Nov 1 1 - - Feb 1 1 - - 2008. "Makeup" are firm dates. They will be dropped from this list if the primary event is successful. If primary fails, the makeup event will be moved from 3rd to 2nd column, and the name of the school will be added on the Current Events page. ------------------------------------- Membership report - Rob Hawley ------------------------------------- ***Expirations by month*** Last SJAA Meeting 4/28/2007 Report Date 5/25/2007 Apr-07 7 May-07 14 Jun-07 33 Jul-07 17 Aug-07 27 Sep-07 19 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 19 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 17 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 11 May-08 11 Jun-08 25 more than 13 months 8 complementary 34 expiring 7 paid(current) 272 email delivery 35 Labels Generated 280 S&T Members 161 New Members since last meeting 1 current + complementary 306 ***Member retention*** paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 13 2006 58 51 2005 64 31 2004 68** 21 2003 61** 28 2002 26** 17 < 2002 148** 111 ** based on 12/04 total 272 The meeting was adjourned at 7:57pm From craigus at rocketmail.com Sun Jul 8 11:55:22 2007 From: craigus at rocketmail.com (Craig Scull) Date: Sun Jul 8 11:55:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - [corrections] Message-ID: <850948.11552.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >I will introduce a resolution approving Robert for the board position open When done, we also need to announce this outcome in the next Ephemeris. ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Hawley-SJAA To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2007 2:58:09 PM Subject: RE: [SJAABoard] Draft SJAA Board Meeting Minutes - [corrections] I would rather we spend our time solving problems than debating process. I will leave it up to the Secretary to decide which, if any, clarifications to the minutes for the last meeting or the next meeting are appropriate. Steve is not eligible to vote on last month's minutes since he did not attend the meeting. What I don't want to do is spend time debating this during the meeting. Immediately after approving the minutes I will introduce a resolution approving Robert for the board position opened by the resignation of Mike. Thus any debate on the minutes would immediately be rendered moot. Rob Hawley _______________________________________________ SJAABoard mailing list SJAABoard@sjaa.net http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From bhavner at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 8 16:56:56 2007 From: bhavner at sbcglobal.net (Bob & Brenda Havner) Date: Sun Jul 8 16:57:01 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donations to Project Astro References: <006a01c7c0e2$d0c0b2e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <007601c7c1bb$aaaa4880$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> > In the absence of such input I will pass on the suggestion to Bob that the > scopes be labelled to return to Project Astro if any of the teachers > assigned to the scopes no longer want them. I can work with Vivian at Project ASTRO as far as Labeling Items if the intent is that they be returned to the ASP (project ASTRO) Bob From bhavner at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 8 17:13:50 2007 From: bhavner at sbcglobal.net (Bob & Brenda Havner) Date: Sun Jul 8 17:13:55 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? References: <002e01c7c0b5$b7505fe0$0400a8c0@robathome><001a01c7c0c7$b5c17d50$3df61345@180edt> <006801c7c0e1$1c6d7ae0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <008101c7c1be$07678400$0202a8c0@Turtlerock> > Teacher's could certainly benefit from attending the beginner's class. I > would really like to upgrade the entire program. I have a topic for next > month and would like to think up additional classes. I have just received from Vivian White at Project ASTRO a donation of education Materials for the SJAA in honor of Ralph Libby. these would be very useful if you should start a Project ASTRO workshop. Included is the "Universe at your Fingertips: Astronomy Activities and Recourse" manual (both volumes), a Family Astro Leader guide with 4 Family ASTRO activity kits. Moon Mission, Race to the Planets, Night Sky Adventure, and Cosmic Decoders. I will be bringing this donation to the July meeting. I also have the Night Sky Network Activity kits. They are really just sitting around here collecting dust. They would certainly be useful for education outreach at all Houge events. Bob From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sun Jul 8 20:44:38 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 8 20:45:03 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? Message-ID: Pretty good ideas. Beginner class tailored to teachers. There is a Santa Clara Co. Science teachers group that would love to have this type of thing advertized. It is run by Gail Chaid of Independence Planetatium. Another source of 'interested parties'. I'm a little at a lost for what the beginner class topics are. Am I missing where they are posted? Another thought, the science teacher education classes at SJSU. A topic like - what a school star party can show, and how the SJAA can help. Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070708/f6e51e95/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sun Jul 8 20:56:12 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 8 20:56:22 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Donations to Project Astro Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/2007 4:57:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bhavner@sbcglobal.net writes: > In the absence of such input I will pass on the suggestion to Bob that the > scopes be labelled to return to Project Astro if any of the teachers > assigned to the scopes no longer want them. I can work with Vivian at Project ASTRO as far as Labeling Items if the intent is that they be returned to the ASP (project ASTRO) Bob Good, idea. My guess, from being at the ASP office several months ago, is that they would love it if we fixup and recirculated the materials back without them having to bother with it! It would be easier for us to replace a broken eyepiece or fix a tripod. This would be more club Project Astro support that the individual support we usally give. (although - of course - individuals DO THE WORK)! Gary was correct - material "donated" to Project Astro is 'out of our hands'. But is it better for us to get it than the trash can (even if it is through ASP asking us to pick it up and recycle it). Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070708/f7c53105/attachment.html From akkana at shallowsky.com Sun Jul 8 20:56:49 2007 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sun Jul 8 20:56:55 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070709035649.GB21812@shallowsky.com> Rich proposes teacher workshops, and Nelsonastro@aol.com writes: > Pretty good ideas. Beginner class tailored to teachers. I'd be interested in helping out if this happened. I wonder how many teachers would be interested ... they're pretty overworked as it is, and many may not have time for extra non-credit classes. But it certainly doesn't hurt to ask, and it would be fun to offer workshops like that. Would the workshops be on how to teach astronomy, astronomy basics that they could then figure out how to teach, maintenance of loaner telescopes, or what? > There is a Santa Clara Co. Science teachers group that would love to > have this type of thing advertized. It is run by Gail Chaid of Independence > Planetatium. Another source of 'interested parties'. Unfortunately Independence's link for that group goes to a page which apparently no longer exists (I get a generic Network Solutions advertising page). The group may be defunct. ...Akkana From rnapo at znet.com Sun Jul 8 21:17:42 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Sun Jul 8 21:17:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Project Astro workshop? References: <20070709035649.GB21812@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <002601c7c1e0$18fbd1e0$d8f71345@180edt> > Rich proposes teacher workshops, and Nelsonastro@aol.com writes: >> Pretty good ideas. Beginner class tailored to teachers. > > I'd be interested in helping out if this happened. I wonder how many > teachers would be interested ... they're pretty overworked as it is, > and many may not have time for extra non-credit classes. But it > certainly doesn't hurt to ask, and it would be fun to offer > workshops like that. > > Would the workshops be on how to teach astronomy, astronomy basics > that they could then figure out how to teach, maintenance of loaner > telescopes, or what? It would be good to hear from Project Astro teachers. Maybe if they have a Project Astro partner they wouldn't need out help. I just thought we could likely answer their quesitons, if they have any. Then again, maybe attending a few Houge Park star parties would be a good way to answer their quesitons? Rich > >> There is a Santa Clara Co. Science teachers group that would love to >> have this type of thing advertized. It is run by Gail Chaid of Independence >> Planetatium. Another source of 'interested parties'. > > Unfortunately Independence's link for that group goes to > a page which apparently no longer exists (I get a generic Network > Solutions advertising page). The group may be defunct. > > ...Akkana > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From Nelsonastro at aol.com Sun Jul 8 21:33:13 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 8 21:33:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Inventory of Equipment Message-ID: I'm confused. I thought we had two different programs. 1)The "MM" program was the Mirror Making program. That was what one vote was about selling and donating stuff to Chabot. No problem if that is mirror blanks, grit, polishing stuff ........ 2)The Loaner Program has bunches of stuff to make repairs and replacements to our loaner telescopes. Junk from that was to be junked (I agree with Rob, that is broken apart binoculars and random tubes and adapters that none can identify). Did you guys vote to give away or sell all telescope parts? An old mirror from a loaner is actually very useful as a "introductory astronomy" show and tell item. Good enough for gawk - even if not for recycling. There was a very nice little polar mount and tripod that I rescued from 'the trash'. There was no need to trash it! It works fine. To trash it just for its knobs would be a shame. I tried to get the completed mirrors out of the boxes that Gary was sending to Chabot [he was going to fight all night over it Thursday so I just left!] I am requesting that just those telescope items that I requested - at this time - be left out of the shipment to Chabot. I simple request for a few items. thanks, Steven ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070709/c5443e37/attachment.html From akkana at shallowsky.com Sun Jul 8 21:58:30 2007 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sun Jul 8 21:58:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Inventory of Equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070709045830.GD21812@shallowsky.com> Nelsonastro@aol.com writes: > Did you guys vote to give away or sell all telescope parts? > An old mirror from a loaner is actually very useful as Might it be worth mentioning at least the mirrors and mirror blanks on the sjaa-chat list, or at a club meeting, just to see if any club members have a use for this club property before it's donated? Chabot is a great program and a worthy recipient, but giving members of this club the first chance might be even better. ...Akkana From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jul 9 03:35:53 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon Jul 9 03:33:32 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Inventory of Equipment In-Reply-To: <20070709045830.GD21812@shallowsky.com> References: <20070709045830.GD21812@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <46920F89.4050505@aenet.net> Akkana Peck wrote: > Nelsonastro@aol.com writes: > >>Did you guys vote to give away or sell all telescope parts? >>An old mirror from a loaner is actually very useful as > > > Might it be worth mentioning at least the mirrors and mirror blanks > on the sjaa-chat list, or at a club meeting, just to see if any club > members have a use for this club property before it's donated? > Chabot is a great program and a worthy recipient, but giving > members of this club the first chance might be even better. I just posted the ATM/mirror making inventory list here (to the board's remailer). Further, I've asked for input as to whether we might want to keep any of it. The only thing I heard back (aside from Steve) is that the board charged me with dealing with that stuff and I should get on with it. Steve's only real point was that a couple of those mirrors might be useful as demo's. OK, fine, I agree. But when was the last time you saw SJAA demo a mirror? There's a much better chance of that happening in Chabot's hands. Everything I'm talking about is part of the ATM pile, not the loaner scope pile. Further, none of this stuff is hard to come by. If someone wants to make a mirror, there are lots of sources. If SJAA is going to be the supplier, then it seems to me we would be obligated to help them use it. That means starting up a new class, but we're not ready for that yet. Chabot is. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jul 9 05:19:36 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon Jul 9 05:17:28 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Inventory of Equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <469227D8.3070705@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > I'm confused. I thought we had two different programs. > > 1)The "MM" program was the Mirror Making program. That was > what one vote was about selling and donating stuff to Chabot. > No problem if that is mirror blanks, grit, polishing stuff ........ > > 2)The Loaner Program has bunches of stuff to make repairs and > replacements to our loaner telescopes. Junk from that was > to be junked (I agree with Rob, that is broken apart binoculars > and random tubes and adapters that none can identify). > > Did you guys vote to give away or sell all telescope parts? No, just the mirror making supplies. But there is a lot of other stuff that we probably will want to sell or donate... or throw away--if we listen to you and Rob. > An old mirror from a loaner is actually very useful as > a "introductory astronomy" show and tell item. Good > enough for gawk - even if not for recycling. Why couldn't a "live" telescope do that? Just point it horizontal and let them look. Then you can show it operate, unlike a bare mirror. A truss telescope would be even better. > There was a > very nice little polar mount and tripod that I rescued from > 'the trash'. It was only going to be thrown in the trash if you or Rob had your way. > I tried to get the completed mirrors out of the boxes that > Gary was sending to Chabot [he was going to fight all > night over it Thursday so I just left!] That wasn't the only thing you were fighting me about. As I kept telling you at the time--I was only doing an inventory. But you wouldn't accept that, apparently you still don't. Further, all that stuff isn't necessarily going to Chabot. That is yet to be decided. Nothing was going to happen until an inventory was taken first. Why is that so hard to understand? Now that's done. I posted the list to the board's remailer and asked for comments and opinions from the board. You *did* see that, right? > I am requesting that just those telescope items that I > requested - at this time - be left out of the shipment > to Chabot. I simple request for a few items. There is no shipment to Chabot (yet). We don't even know what they may want. Richard Ozer will get back to me sometime after the Lassen star party. The only thing I have to say about non-mirror making supplies is this: don't be too quick to throw something out. As for the mirror making supplies... If you want something for yourself, (i.e. buy from the club), fine. But if you want the club to hang on to something just because maybe we can demo it sometime, well... If you can get a couple of others to agree, OK. Otherwise, I'm prepared to make it all available to Chabot. I think they can make much better use of it. Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jul 9 05:21:45 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon Jul 9 05:19:19 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] more about our ATM stuff Message-ID: <46922859.5060403@aenet.net> The club was working on a mirror, I think it was a 10". I didn't see it in with the ATM supplies, only blank 10" stuff. (Although it could have been put back in with the blanks, I didn't inspect each one. I'll look again to be sure.) Mike said something about taking it to Chabot for testing. Does anyone know where it is now? About scope 27, the Coulter 13" base and OTA (without the main mirror): Richard Ozer says no thanks, they already have two. So, maybe we can save it for our auction/swap. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Mon Jul 9 17:07:03 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Mon Jul 9 17:14:34 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News Message-ID: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> I fulfilled by action items WRT Houge today. We continue to have good relations with Camden. They are particular about details and it would be in our best interest to be sensitive to that. Deposit New Camden administrator let me know that rolling the deposits over was NOT correct procedure. She was going to follow the correct procedure. We will receive our deposit by mail in about 9 weeks. Swap I got another copy of the form. As long as we are cool about spending the $145 then the swap can go on as planned. Special Eclipse Event They amended our application and we have a new event scheduled for Aug 28 between 2 AM and 5 AM. The fee was $10. I will submit the receipt the next time I see Gary. We can go ahead and put this on the calendar. Let me know how it turns out. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jul 9 18:37:45 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon Jul 9 18:42:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > Swap > I got another copy of the form. As long as we are cool about > spending the $145 then the swap can go on as planned. Uncool. Digging in my mail and calendar archives: 2001: $271.50 2002: 460.30 2003: 552.70 2004: 405.50 2005: 1145.00 2006: 745.90 Okay, I suppose we can afford it. Grumble. They ought to pay us for taking care of the place.... But I'll wait for board action before putting the swap back on the calendar. > Special Eclipse Event > > They amended our application and we have a new event scheduled > for Aug 28 between 2 AM and 5 AM. > We can go ahead and put this on the calendar. Let me know how it > turns out. I've added it to the calendar. Who shall lead the event (run the lights)? I'm too old for staying up that late.... -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From sjaa at robhawley.net Mon Jul 9 19:08:56 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Mon Jul 9 19:08:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> <4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> Message-ID: <00d901c7c297$460484e0$0400a8c0@robathome> That is actually better than I was expecting. I thought we would take a loss. Be glad they are willing to keep the place open for us and let us have a key. Rob Hawley From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 10 02:57:10 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 10 02:54:50 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > I fulfilled by action items WRT Houge today. We continue to have good > relations with Camden. They are particular about details and it would be in > our best interest to be sensitive to that. > > Deposit > > New Camden administrator let me know that rolling the deposits over > was NOT correct procedure. She was going to follow the correct procedure. > We will receive our deposit by mail in about 9 weeks. > > Swap > > I got another copy of the form. As long as we are cool about > spending the $145 then the swap can go on as planned. So now it's OK? What rules are they following? I was suspicious when you said that they "weren't comfortable" with the swap. There's only one reason for charging us $145, greed. They think we're making a lot and want a piece of it. We should still look for alternatives. We don't always make very much from the swap. > Special Eclipse Event > > They amended our application and we have a new event scheduled for > Aug 28 between 2 AM and 5 AM. If they are particular about details, that should have been at least from 1 to 6. It's already well under way by 2 and not done by 5. Although I don't recommend trying to change it, they probably won't know if we start early. > The fee was $10. For what, amending the form or just for us to be there? Gary From wb6yru at aenet.net Tue Jul 10 02:59:51 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Tue Jul 10 02:57:13 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> <4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> Message-ID: <46935897.5030301@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: >>Special Eclipse Event > I've added it to the calendar. Who shall lead the event (run the > lights)? I suggested it, so this is probably mine. I'll get the lights. > I'm too old for staying up that late.... You just need to plan ahead a little. :) Gary From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 10 06:22:19 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 10 06:22:39 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> <469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> Message-ID: <000b01c7c2f5$5877a2c0$a8f61345@180edt> > Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: >> I fulfilled by action items WRT Houge today. We continue to have good >> relations with Camden. They are particular about details and it would be in >> our best interest to be sensitive to that. >> >> Deposit >> >> New Camden administrator let me know that rolling the deposits over >> was NOT correct procedure. She was going to follow the correct procedure. >> We will receive our deposit by mail in about 9 weeks. >> >> Swap >> >> I got another copy of the form. As long as we are cool about >> spending the $145 then the swap can go on as planned. > > So now it's OK? What rules are they following? I was suspicious > when you said that they "weren't comfortable" with the swap. > > There's only one reason for charging us $145, greed. They think > we're making a lot and want a piece of it. We should still look > for alternatives. We don't always make very much from the swap. Considering it is a public facility and we all pay taxes that support those facilities, squeezing us for more money is annoying. Rich From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 10 06:30:29 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 10 06:30:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] I'll be away for about 10 days References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><4692E2E9.4677@svpal.org> <46935897.5030301@aenet.net> Message-ID: <001001c7c2f6$7c421f40$a8f61345@180edt> Hi folks, I'll be away for about 10 days from July 13th to about July 23rd. Most of that time I'll be in the northeastern part of California and a little bit of Oregon. I'll be at GSSP on Friday and Saturday, then on to doing some rockhounding. I'll have my home phone forwarded to my cell phone. So, you can get hold of me if necessary. I think you guys have my phone number. All the best, Rich From leebizz at aol.com Tue Jul 10 09:38:37 2007 From: leebizz at aol.com (leebizz@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 10 09:38:49 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome> <469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> Message-ID: <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, ???? I agree with Gary.? The whole thing about paying $145 for our modest swap is a rip.? They must visualize some massive event where? many thousands of dollars change hands and the whole parking lot is covered with dealers?under umbrellas, whereas the reality is 10 people exhange old eyepieces and a bent finder bracket from a 1975 Criterion Dynascope for?a grand total of $326.00 in sales. ???? If they can't be convinced a fee of $145 for the swap is excessive, I think we should make other plans.? As some of us discussed at the board meeting, giving them a small percentage would be better for us. ????????? Bye for now, ??????????????????? Lee -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mitchell To: Business list for SJAA board of directors and members Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 2:57 am Subject: Re: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote:? > I fulfilled by action items WRT Houge today. We continue to have good? > relations with Camden. They are particular about details and it would be in? > our best interest to be sensitive to that.? > > Deposit? > > New Camden administrator let me know that rolling the deposits over? > was NOT correct procedure. She was going to follow the correct procedure.? > We will receive our deposit by mail in about 9 weeks.? > > Swap? > > I got another copy of the form. As long as we are cool about? > spending the $145 then the swap can go on as planned.? ? So now it's OK? What rules are they following? I was suspicious? when you said that they "weren't comfortable" with the swap.? ? There's only one reason for charging us $145, greed. They think? we're making a lot and want a piece of it. We should still look? for alternatives. We don't always make very much from the swap.? ? > Special Eclipse Event? > > They amended our application and we have a new event scheduled for? > Aug 28 between 2 AM and 5 AM.? ? If they are particular about details, that should have been at? least from 1 to 6. It's already well under way by 2 and not done? by 5. Although I don't recommend trying to change it, they? probably won't know if we start early.? ? > The fee was $10.? ? For what, amending the form or just for us to be there?? ? Gary? ? _______________________________________________? SJAABoard mailing list? SJAABoard@sjaa.net? http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070710/43fc01f0/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 10 10:18:33 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 10 10:18:30 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> I thought the board approved spending the $145. That is why I made multiple trips to Camden CC yesterday to arraign for this! To put the charges in context, the rest of the events only cost us $30. In 2008 that will cover the entire year. I would say the city is giving us a good deal. According to the supervisor, the reason that they rejected our first application for the swap was because I objected to the cost. The was a different message than I got from the coordinator, but ... The auction will also cost us something. It will not be quite the same because the charges are based on the amount of time we use the facility. I will put the new application on the table at the next meeting. I do not plan to make the motion to accept and will abstain during the vote. If folks want to move the swap and auction to a different site then propose some places. BTW holding them outdoors invokes a different bureaucracy. If we are going to hold it on San Jose City property then this is the best deal. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Tue Jul 10 11:15:29 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Tue Jul 10 12:23:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News Message-ID: <4693CCC1.2461@svpal.org> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > > I thought the board approved spending the $145. Okay -- I have not been reading the Minutes in minute detail. I've put the Swap back on the 2007 calendar page. Thanks for all the legwork. > To put the charges in > context, the rest of the events only cost us $30. In 2008 that will > cover the entire year. I would say the city is giving us a good deal. Yes, under the budgetary circumstances. It's varied from $25/quarter to no fees at all. And from applying quarterly to yearly. We once had an "offer" to hold meetings at a private school for $30/event, even though we invited their students. > If folks want to move the swap and auction to a different site then > propose some places. It will "cost" in disruption to move the swap or auction. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 10 18:24:05 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 10 18:24:29 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net><8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> <00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <000f01c7c35a$2cc09500$6ef71345@180edt> Next time I think we should have two auctions and no swap. Assuming the auctions don't start costing too much. Rich >I thought the board approved spending the $145. That is why I made multiple > trips to Camden CC yesterday to arraign for this! To put the charges in > context, the rest of the events only cost us $30. In 2008 that will cover > the entire year. I would say the city is giving us a good deal. > > > According to the supervisor, the reason that they rejected our first > application for the swap was because I objected to the cost. The was a > different message than I got from the coordinator, but ... > > > The auction will also cost us something. It will not be quite the same > because the charges are based on the amount of time we use the facility. > > I will put the new application on the table at the next meeting. I do not > plan to make the motion to accept and will abstain during the vote. If > folks want to move the swap and auction to a different site then propose > some places. > > BTW holding them outdoors invokes a different bureaucracy. If we are going > to hold it on San Jose City property then this is the best deal. > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From sjaa at robhawley.net Tue Jul 10 19:55:02 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Tue Jul 10 19:55:41 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <000f01c7c35a$2cc09500$6ef71345@180edt> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net><8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com><00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> <000f01c7c35a$2cc09500$6ef71345@180edt> Message-ID: <010b01c7c366$e140f680$0400a8c0@robathome> The entire "not the right kind of event" was a misunderstanding. The issue was I objected to paying the $145. The supervisor clearly understood what the swap was and there was no issue in her mind. We just needed to pony up the money. Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Tue Jul 10 20:56:19 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Tue Jul 10 20:56:45 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net><8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com><00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome><000f01c7c35a$2cc09500$6ef71345@180edt> <010b01c7c366$e140f680$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <001501c7c36f$7088fb00$6ef71345@180edt> Hi Rob, How much do they charge for an auction? Thanks, Rich > The entire "not the right kind of event" was a misunderstanding. The issue > was I objected to paying the $145. The supervisor clearly understood what > the swap was and there was no issue in her mind. We just needed to pony up > the money. > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Wed Jul 11 00:45:03 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Wed Jul 11 00:42:36 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com> <00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <46948A7F.6030502@aenet.net> Rob Hawley-SJAA wrote: > I thought the board approved spending the $145. That is why I made multiple > trips to Camden CC yesterday to arraign for this! To put the charges in > context, the rest of the events only cost us $30. In 2008 that will cover > the entire year. I would say the city is giving us a good deal. Considering they charged us nothing up to a couple of years ago, and considering we all pay taxes that support the park system, and considering our activities boost the prestige and activity at the park and provides a benefit to the public, and considering our swap is a relatively small affair that only gets us a few hundred (typically)... I don't agree at all that we're getting anything approaching a "good deal." Especially $145 for the same amount of time as a meeting. Gary From sjaa at robhawley.net Wed Jul 11 07:42:06 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Wed Jul 11 07:43:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: <46948A7F.6030502@aenet.net> References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com><00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome> <46948A7F.6030502@aenet.net> Message-ID: <011001c7c3c9$a7fbfa60$0400a8c0@robathome> At first this was a healthy venting. This is now starting to sound like the complaining a couple of years ago about the state's rule changes at Fremont Peak. The bottom line then and now is simple. What happened before does not matter; these are the rules now. Everyone at Camden is working off the rules that their higher ups established. Remember the city was going to close Houge a year ago. One of Mike's achievements last year was preventing that. At this point we have good relations with the city. If we piss them off at the least they could recall the keys. I originally told the city what they were charging too much and did not pay it. The board overruled me. We have three alternatives at this point 1. Write a check to the City of San Jose. 2. Suggest a place not on City of San Jose property. 3. Cancel the swap (again) Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Wed Jul 11 07:53:18 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Wed Jul 11 07:57:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com><00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome><46948A7F.6030502@aenet.net> <011001c7c3c9$a7fbfa60$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <000b01c7c3cb$38c069e0$2354f842@180edt> Hi Rob, What is the charge (by the city) for an auction? I thought at the meeting you said they were charging us more for the swap than the auction. Thanks, Rich From robhawley at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 08:10:20 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Wed Jul 11 08:10:59 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Gone 2 Lassen Message-ID: <011201c7c3cd$9a8d9330$0400a8c0@robathome> Back Sunday night Rob Hawley From rnapo at znet.com Wed Jul 11 08:29:43 2007 From: rnapo at znet.com (Rich N) Date: Wed Jul 11 08:29:52 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News References: <00d801c7c286$3fadf600$0400a8c0@robathome><469357F6.5040503@aenet.net> <8C99127E6694B93-E28-379B@WEBMAIL-DF12.sysops.aol.com><00fa01c7c316$586aa770$0400a8c0@robathome><46948A7F.6030502@aenet.net> <011001c7c3c9$a7fbfa60$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <002901c7c3d0$4e93c730$2354f842@180edt> Hi Rob, I know you are trying to be practical and go with the flow. OTOH, at some point a person, or club, has to push back and not roll over. > At first this was a healthy venting. This is now starting to sound like the > complaining a couple of years ago about the state's rule changes at Fremont > Peak. The bottom line then and now is simple. What happened before does > not matter; these are the rules now. Everyone at Camden is working off the > rules that their higher ups established. What the state is doing at Fremont Peak is, IMO, not legal. Again, I know you mean well, but I really hate the term "higher ups". > > Remember the city was going to close Houge a year ago. One of Mike's > achievements last year was preventing that. At this point we have good > relations with the city. If we piss them off at the least they could recall > the keys. I'm not suggesting pissing them off. But, I don't see a problem with saying to the city the charge for the swap is so high that it isn't worth having swap. >I orginally told the city what they were charging too much and did not pay > it. The board overruled me. When did we overrule you? > > We have three alternatives at this point > > 1. Write a check to the City of San Jose. > 2. Suggest a place not on City of San Jose property. > 3. Cancel the swap (again) I suggest doing #3. Rich > > > > Rob Hawley > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From pkohlmil at best.com Thu Jul 12 00:10:15 2007 From: pkohlmil at best.com (Paul Kohlmiller) Date: Thu Jul 12 00:12:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris Message-ID: <000601c7c453$b4492290$0700a8c0@PKHPXPP> The August Ephemeris is ready for proof reading at: http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0708/EphAug07.pdf I think I got all the schedule updates. This issue includes info on the July General Meeting so it is really the late-July issue instead of the August issue. The plan is for this issue to go to the printer Friday morning. If you have anything for the September issue, please keep in mind that the cutoff will be August 8th instead of the 10th. All comments welcome. Paul and Mary Kohlmiller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070712/135de14a/attachment.html From jvn at svpal.org Thu Jul 12 01:47:29 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Thu Jul 12 02:12:20 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris Message-ID: <4695EAA1.5A0F@svpal.org> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > > The August Ephemeris is ready for proof reading at: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0708/EphAug07.pdf > > I think I got all the schedule updates. This issue includes info on > the July General Meeting so it is really the late-July issue instead > of the August issue. Good idea! I've checked the calendar dates. The only error I see is in September, where a Coyote Lake is shown on Sept.18. This is a dup of the August 18 event. Someone else please also check the dates. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From wb6yru at aenet.net Thu Jul 12 05:09:44 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Thu Jul 12 05:07:19 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <000601c7c453$b4492290$0700a8c0@PKHPXPP> References: <000601c7c453$b4492290$0700a8c0@PKHPXPP> Message-ID: <46961A08.9000803@aenet.net> Paul Kohlmiller wrote: > The August Ephemeris is ready for proof reading at: > http://ephemeris.sjaa.net/0708/EphAug07.pdf > > I think I got all the schedule updates. This issue includes info on the > July General Meeting so it is really the late-July issue instead of the > August issue. In the calendar, please remove the mirror making workshops on July 21 and August 18. As a result, the one on August 2 can be called "the final formal session." (There may be "informal" sessions later this year.) We've still got the room reserved, but no one stepped forward to take my place. I'll be at the Yosemite star party on August 18 and the Coyote star party on July 21. The chances are only about 20 percent that someone else will show up anyway. And since they're winding down now, there's no point in attracting visitors. Saturdays were a bad choice for the workshop, too many chances for conflicts. By the way, in the lead article on the July meeting... What's UCO? Gary From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 10:33:55 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon Jul 16 10:33:53 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] SJAA website is frozen Message-ID: <002a01c7c7cf$7c56a7c0$0400a8c0@robathome> In preparation for the move to BlueHost I took a snapshot of the current content. This will be posted to the new location sometime today. If you need to make a change let me know and we can put it up on the new site. I don't know how long the conversion to BlueHost will take. A lot will depend on how quickly I can get MoJo to change the DNS entry. Once that happens it will take a couple of days for the DNS change to propagate. I am going to make a small change to the header of the page on the new site to make it quicker to find the schedule and directions. Once you see this change then you will be accessing pages from BlueHost. At present the mail lists will remain on MoJo's server. There should not be any disruption in access. As I said in the meeting I can now give anyone with a need access to the site. We can also use a non-public part of the site to store backup copies of key club records. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon Jul 16 10:37:08 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 16 10:37:25 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News Message-ID: Thanks Rob - for calling and visiting and getting this correct. As a non-citizen of San Jose I do not feel too bad about paying "use fees" to that city. They normally do not get any of my tax money to help run their community centers. As long as Rob has done due dilligence (he usually does) at getting us the best deal we should live with what the Rec Dept. has said is their policy on public use. After a 75% cut in the Rec Dept budget over the last several years (do the citizens really like the Grand Prex THAT MUCH?) I am just glad the center has not been closed under us!!!!!!!!! [thanks to the last Pres for attending public hearings] Since there does not seem to be a consensus - we should put the swap item (with it's fee) on the next agenda and vote on it. (money not paid yet?) Steven ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070716/32951178/attachment.html From Nelsonastro at aol.com Mon Jul 16 10:40:23 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 16 10:41:17 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News Message-ID: Opps! I think the plan as negotiated and the application and costs are within reason. I will make the motion to accept the new application and costs and that we go with the city offered deal this year. Steven ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070716/604060b8/attachment.html From sjaa at robhawley.net Mon Jul 16 10:45:47 2007 From: sjaa at robhawley.net (Rob Hawley-SJAA) Date: Mon Jul 16 10:46:17 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Houge Park News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003101c7c7d1$29a8d050$0400a8c0@robathome> The money has not been authorized or paid. I have the form and await board action on what to do with it. Rob Hawley From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jul 16 13:36:09 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon Jul 16 13:48:12 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris References: <000601c7c453$b4492290$0700a8c0@PKHPXPP> <46961A08.9000803@aenet.net> Message-ID: <469BD6B9.274C@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote: > In the calendar, please remove the mirror making workshops on > July 21 and August 18. As a result, the one on August 2 can be > called "the final formal session." I've made the corresponding changes on year2007.htm (see footer). > Saturdays were a bad choice for the workshop, too many chances > for conflicts. Some truth in that. The workshop dates were set first. The other (later) event dates were mostly forced. For instance, we ask for a date at Glacier Point, but take what we get (our 3rd choice). And the requests from Coyote Lake Park were mostly set by the park. Clear Skies (and calendars!) -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 18:26:37 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Mon Jul 16 18:26:16 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Villa Montalvo star party, Aug.10 Message-ID: <005401c7c811$855a10e0$0400a8c0@robathome> This is a decision that cannot wait for the next meeting. Mike apparently made a commitment to Villa Montalvo on behalf of the club. I don't known when this commitment was made. I could not find any record of it in the minutes so I don't believe the board ever approved or even discussed this. If this had been presented to the board I would have voted no. My feeling at this point is to explain to Villa Montalvo - Mike's commitment, Mike's problem. Villa Montalvo is not a place that I have any interest doing a star party at especially on a new moon weekend. If any board member is interested in owning this problem, then it would allow the organization to save some face. Rob Hawley From koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net Mon Jul 16 19:40:29 2007 From: koopm at koopm.best.vwh.net (Michael Koop) Date: Mon Jul 16 19:40:42 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Villa Montalvo star party, Aug.10 In-Reply-To: <005401c7c811$855a10e0$0400a8c0@robathome> References: <005401c7c811$855a10e0$0400a8c0@robathome> Message-ID: <20070716203907.D48519@koopm.best.vwh.net> The commitment to do the event was done by JVN, and not by me. He was the one who responded. Mike On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, Rob Hawley wrote: > This is a decision that cannot wait for the next meeting. > > > Mike apparently made a commitment to Villa Montalvo on behalf of the club. > I don't known when this commitment was made. I could not find any record of > it in the minutes so I don't believe the board ever approved or even > discussed this. If this had been presented to the board I would have voted > no. > > My feeling at this point is to explain to Villa Montalvo - Mike's > commitment, Mike's problem. Villa Montalvo is not a place that I have any > interest doing a star party at especially on a new moon weekend. > > If any board member is interested in owning this problem, then it would > allow the organization to save some face. > > Rob Hawley > > > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard > From wb6yru at aenet.net Mon Jul 16 23:45:53 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Mon Jul 16 23:43:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] August Ephemeris In-Reply-To: <469BD6B9.274C@svpal.org> References: <000601c7c453$b4492290$0700a8c0@PKHPXPP> <46961A08.9000803@aenet.net> <469BD6B9.274C@svpal.org> Message-ID: <469C65A1.6060705@aenet.net> Jim Van Nuland wrote: > Gary Mitchell wrote: >>Saturdays were a bad choice for the workshop, too many chances >>for conflicts. > > > Some truth in that. The workshop dates were set first. The other > (later) event dates were mostly forced. For instance, we ask for a > date at Glacier Point, but take what we get (our 3rd choice). And the > requests from Coyote Lake Park were mostly set by the park. Then we should have been setting the mirror workshop dates after the other dates were more firm, or at least changed the workshop accordingly. There's nothing about the workshop that requires any specific dates and few people would be affected by it. (Note: this has little to do with reserving the room. We can put in reservations whether we'll actually be able to use it or not.) Gary From jvn at svpal.org Mon Jul 16 23:29:22 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Mon Jul 16 23:47:57 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Villa Montalvo star party, Aug.10 References: <005401c7c811$855a10e0$0400a8c0@robathome> <20070716203907.D48519@koopm.best.vwh.net> Message-ID: <469C61C2.94C@svpal.org> Michael Koop wrote: > > The commitment to do the event was done by JVN, and not by me. > He was the one who responded. Only partly correct. My specific response was: >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 00:18:17 -0700 >> From: Jim Van Nuland >> To: Kirsten Bontrager >> Cc: Michael Koop , >> Katie Haggerty >> Subject: Re: Montalvo Star Event, Aug 10-11 >> >>Hi, Kirsten, Katie, >> >> My team is already committed to Perseid events at another park. >> I spoke to Mike, and he will arrange for some of our astronomers to >>come to Villa Montalvo. So -- who made the commitment?? I merely communicated it. You have long known that I don't like paid-admission events, and said that you were willing to do support them, as they are a non-profit organization. As SJAA president, you had the authority to commit in SJAA's name. I know you have your reasons for walking, but do not try to blame someone else for dropping your commitment. I feel that this type of event is an inappropriate use of the school star party team -- we do lots of schools and similar events, but the Villa Montalvo events are NOT open-public-is-invited events; the people pay $100/night for lying on the grass. If SJAA and others are willing to support them, fine, but not under the name of the school star party team, and specifically not under the name JVN. I did the initial site mapping and worked up driving directions, because I have time available during the day, and the GPS mapping tools to work up directions. But when I learned that they were charging serious admission, I stepped back. The school team will be supporting two nights at Calero County Park. Those events are open to walk-ins, and the only fee, if any, is the general admission or parking, a few dollars, perhaps. Clear Statements! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 15:41:56 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Jul 17 15:41:37 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Membership report for July 07 Message-ID: <00e001c7c8c3$ae8e5590$0400a8c0@robathome> *************************Expiration by Month****************** Last SJAA Meeting 6/30/2007 Report Date 7/17/2007 expired 77 Jun-07 8 Jul-07 13 Aug-07 23 Sep-07 16 Oct-07 18 Nov-07 18 Dec-07 16 Jan-08 16 Feb-08 17 Mar-08 20 Apr-08 12 May-08 19 Jun-08 56 Jul-08 17 Aug-08 5 more than 13 months 8 complementary 34 expiring 8 paid(current) 274 email delivery 39 Labels Generated 277 S&T Members 169 New Members since last meeting 6 current + complementary 308 *************************Member Retention ****************** paid only Members at end of year Members retained 2007 26 2006 58 49 84% 2005 64 31 48% 2004 68** 19 28% 2003 61** 26 43% 2002 26** 15 58% < 2002 148** 108 73% ** based on 12/04 total 274 Rob Hawley From robhawley at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 16:06:28 2007 From: robhawley at earthlink.net (Rob Hawley) Date: Tue Jul 17 16:06:35 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] Move to BlueHost will occur tonight Message-ID: <00e201c7c8c7$1b7ad3b0$0400a8c0@robathome> All of the content from the SJAA website is now on the BlueHost servers. Tonight I will change the DNS entry to use the new site. It may take as long as 3 days for this change to fully propagate. In theory, no one should notice a change. If Murphy strikes web access, mail lists, and/or use of @sjaa.net address may be affected. We need to manually verify that no PayPal transactions were lost. The logs on the PayPal server are sufficient. Remember to use mail.sjaa.net to access the archives. All of the current email addresses (e.g. this one) should not be affected. Rob Hawley From Nelsonastro at aol.com Thu Jul 19 19:58:56 2007 From: Nelsonastro at aol.com (Nelsonastro@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 19 19:59:11 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] paid star parties - or for other non-profit fund raisers Message-ID: RE: Rich's comment last month - This is not such a bad idea in my mind. Another way to raise funds, do public outreach, and do astronomy (get a 'reasonable site though'). This is not at all in the vein of "School Star Party" or "Public Park Star Party". So ... it might have different volunteers. I find it sort of more to my flavor than going to a private school that charges $27,000 a year! To me that seems more 'exclusive' than 'public'.. it is very kid-centric though! Steven PS Castilleja School is just as valid a non-profit (is it?) as Villa Montalto or HIdden Villa. The PAS does get use of a group barbecue area for their club on the night that they do a paid attendance party for Hidden Villa. > I just found this on the Cloudy Nights Forum. A club in Tucson does paid star parties. "...Tucson, AZ Our club also conducts paid star parties at local resorts. The resort contracts with the club to provide a certain number of scopes and "astronomers" during an evening outdoor event for a visiting organization. We have a group of club members who volunteer their scopes and time, so all of the money goes to the club. It's been a very successful money-maker. " > Rich ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.sjaa.net/pipermail/sjaaboard/attachments/20070719/6d1f6d1b/attachment.html From wb6yru at aenet.net Fri Jul 20 00:21:34 2007 From: wb6yru at aenet.net (Gary Mitchell) Date: Fri Jul 20 00:18:54 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] paid star parties - or for other non-profit fund raisers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46A0627E.9050005@aenet.net> Nelsonastro@aol.com wrote: > RE: Rich's comment last month - > > This is not such a bad idea in my mind. Another way to raise funds, > do public outreach, and do astronomy (get a 'reasonable site though'). > This is not at all in the vein of "School Star Party" or "Public Park > Star Party". So ... it might have different volunteers. > I find it sort of more to my flavor than going to a private school > that charges $27,000 a year! To me that seems more 'exclusive' than > 'public'.. it is very kid-centric though! Jim would have to say for sure, but I don't know that ANY of our school star parties are done at private schools. Certainly no money is involved for our school star parties. The closest we come to private schools might be Walden West, but that's more like a summer camp. Gary > Steven > > PS Castilleja School is just as valid a non-profit (is it?) as > Villa Montalto or HIdden Villa. The PAS does get use of a > group barbecue area for their club on the night that they > do a paid attendance party for Hidden Villa. > > > > I just found this on the Cloudy Nights Forum. A club in Tucson does > paid star parties. > > "...Tucson, AZ > Our club also conducts paid star parties at local resorts. The resort > contracts with the club to provide a certain number of > scopes and "astronomers" during an evening outdoor event for a visiting > organization. We have a group of club members who > volunteer their scopes and time, so all of the money goes to the club. > It's been a very successful money-maker. " > > > Rich > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > SJAABoard mailing list > SJAABoard@sjaa.net > http://mail.sjaa.net/mailman/listinfo/sjaaboard From jvn at svpal.org Fri Jul 20 02:24:42 2007 From: jvn at svpal.org (Jim Van Nuland) Date: Fri Jul 20 02:50:27 2007 Subject: [SJAABoard] paid star parties - or for other non-profit fund raisers References: <46A0627E.9050005@aenet.net> Message-ID: <46A07F5A.5372@svpal.org> Gary Mitchell wrote in a reply to Steve: > Jim would have to say for sure, but I don't know that ANY of our > school star parties are done at private schools. There have been some. St.Frances Cabrini on Camden near my house. A girl's group associated with a Lutheran church or its school, on Redmond. Girl's Middle School in Mountain View. Milpitas Christian school. A few more. It costs several thousand a year to attend parochial schools, but they are fighting budget problems much like public schools. Academic standards are quite high. The Members' Nights at The Tech museum are private in the sense that they are for families of members of the museum, which costs them yearly dues. I don't know if ordinary people can pay museum admission and come to the roof star party. I hope so. > The closest we come to private schools might be > Walden West, but that's more like a summer camp. No -- W.W. is part of the public school system. > > "...Tucson, AZ > > Our club also conducts paid star parties at local resorts. The > > resort contracts with the club to provide a certain number of > > scopes and "astronomers" during an evening outdoor event for a Ugh. Last thing I need is a drunk falling into my telescope. We are NOT public entertainers -- and that's what would be expected at such an event. Not for pay, not for anything. We were offered $25/hour at a night club in Monterey. No takers. Clear Skies! -- Jim Van Nuland, San Jose (California) Astronomical Association JVN's web site